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[LosDaddie]

I don't think that is the case at all. The influence is the same as it always has been.

Then you must living in a bubble:

NYT: Japanese Playing a New Video Game: Catch-Up

Global sales numbers for the entire industry are hard to come by. But Japan’s share of the world’s video game market, both hardware and software, has fallen to slightly more than 10 percent in 2009, from estimates as high as 50 percent in 2002, based on figures from the Entertainment Software Association, the Japan External Trade Organization, and the research companies DFC Intelligence and Enterbrain.

1UP: Why Japanese Games are Breaking Up With the West

Gamer taste in both regions underwent a massive sea change in recent years. While the slow takeover of the AAA console space by former PC heavy-hitting franchises, genres and studios like Fallout, FPS games, and BioWare changed the tastes of the western market in the past decade, other forces have been working on Japan in the same time. The reasons for the shift in Japanese gamer taste are numerous, but there are three that western gamers in the country continuously note -- a peculiar emotion called moe, the Japanese concept of hobbies and adulthood, and a tradition of disparaging foreign games.

I mean, I'm not saying anything new here. This topic has been discussed on GAF for years now.

Nintendo and Capcom were the ones who dominated the market last generation, so there wasn't this void. Being selective on who you want to include and who you don't want to include on this list makes for a very sloppy argument, and still doesn't discount the fact that you have games like Gran Turismo, Dark Souls, and Metal Gear Solid IV selling millions of units over here. .

Nintendo didn't dominate anything last gen, unless you're talking about the DS. And the other franchises you listed have a built-in fanbase from previous gens.

 

[Karuto]

I'm gonna be 30 this year, I thought you were younger. Though like others have said, I think you are expecting way too much out of niche Japanese console games. Japanese companies have had plenty of successes with new IPs, both critically and financially (especially on the handhelds which even you can't deny they totally dominate). Catherine, Demon's Souls, Bayonetta, Valkyria Chronicles. But here's some food for thought - a much greater number of western devs went bankrupt this gen than Japanese, usually the western devs who focused on big-budget extravaganzas.

^^ This. Whereas Western developers always put themselves in a situation where a single game, if it doesn't sell well, will completely bankrupt them, Japanese developers play it safer by looking towards the handheld generation to save money on development costs. When publishers like Square Enix and Level-5 are seeing monumental success on those platforms with the Professor Layton series and the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest series, it does say a lot in how we should perceive the console vs handheld markets. When the DS has sold over 150 million units and the PSP has sold over 75 million units, the market there is certainly much bigger than the consoles.

Then you must living in a bubble:

NYT: Japanese Playing a New Video Game: Catch-Up

And yet those estimates are using outdated figures because some of the top selling games of this generation didn't come out or were just starting to make their impact. Just because a publisher isn't pandering to our market when you have such a cultural difference doesn't their games are selling any better or any worse than before. I mean, take a look at Yakuza 3 and the backlash when they took out very Japanese cultural-based things such as hostess clubs and quiz shows, so one of the biggest problems they face is that "global appeal" is just so damn ambigiuous and so difficult to gauge that you can't blame them at all. That NYT article is also flawed in that it says " Instead, the blockbuster hits now come from the West: Call of Duty and Guitar Hero from Activision Blizzard, for example, and Grand Theft Auto from Take-Two Interactive" when GTA had a much bigger mark on the last generation and a much smaller one this generation. Guitar Hero seemed to expire almost as quickly as it came in thanks to oversaturation by Activison, so that's certainly not something to point out to prove how little influence Japanese publishers have. I'm not saying that Japanese publishers are on top of their game as they used to. Hell, it even cites that when Japanese developers tried to work with American publishers, they tended to stifle what sort of creative freedom the Japanese used to experience because American publishers are now more than ever so damn focused on making a blockbuster instead of taking risks due to those costs. The changes in the market dictate that unless your game can sell 10 million units it can flop, so I wouldn't blame the Japanese publishers for failing to make games with so-called "global appeal" when American publishers seem less and less willing to take their chances with a foreign IP and market it here when they'd rather release Call of Duty 17. These articles you posted only reinforce the point I made that the cultural differences have created a bigger divide than they did before, which is why Japanese influence hasn't been as obvious as it used to be, even if there are plenty of gamers here still willing to buy their games.

And I find that 1UP over-generalizes the Japanese market to a ridiculous degree, and I don't take it seriously one bit.

Nintendo didn't dominate anything last gen, unless you're talking about the DS. And the other franchises you listed have a built-in fanbase from previous gens.

Since when was the DS last gen? It came out when the other consoles did. And Japanese publishers like Nintendo did dominate the market last gen, because you had franchises such as Pokemon, Mario, and Super Smash Bros. selling tens of millions of units, more than most Western-made games. That is certainly market domination, and puts them higher than the other publishers in terms of sales. If you want to play double standards and talk about built-in fanbases, then I guess we should wipe out almost all the successful games Western publishers have had because the top sellers had games on the previous gen and built their fanbases from that. What point are you trying to make? It's unfair to say that we can only expect a measure of success if a Japanese publisher has an original IP, yet support a Western publisher on games like Halo and Call of Duty that had built-in fanbases from the previous gen. Oh, and I didn't realize Dark Souls had a game on the previous gen. News to me!

 

[TheChits]

Snowbound is the best Halo map.

This hurts me haha

 

[LosDaddie]

I'm gonna be 30 this year, I thought you were younger. Though like others have said, I think you are expecting way too much out of niche Japanese console games. .

I'm not expecting anything from JPN devs. I'm just stating the current realities of the console gaming market.

Japanese companies have had plenty of successes with new IPs, both critically and financially (especially on the handhelds which even you can't deny they totally dominate).

And Western devs have had the same, or even more, success with new IPs this gen. And are you including iOS/Android platforms in your handhelds argument there?

But here's some food for thought - a much greater number of western devs went bankrupt this gen than Japanese, usually the western devs who focused on big-budget extravaganzas.

So? Does people losing their jobs make you happy, or something?

 

[Rahxephon91]

Handhelds suck and I wish they would die.

 

[Derrick01]

So? Does people losing their jobs make you happy, or something?

Nah that's just his go-to statement when people say Japan sucks or Japan's dying.

As if that means anything. There's far more western studios than Japanese.

 

[djtiesto]

I'm not expecting anything from JPN devs. I'm just stating the current realities of the console gaming market.




And Western devs have had the same, or even more, success with new IPs this gen. And are you including iOS/Android platforms in your handhelds argument there?





So? Does people losing their jobs make you happy, or something?

How the hell do you get that people losing their jobs makes me happy from what I said? I'm just telling it like it is, there's a much bigger risk when it comes to aiming for the big-budget Call of Duty pie than there is making more financially-reasonable games. Like remember that game about North Korea taking over America (forgot its name already)? Perfect example there. Plenty of western devs seem hellbent on following the big-budget path - eliminating stuff like creativity and interesting game mechanics in the process.

And no I don't include iOS/Android because those games are usually pretty rubbish! Plus, you may have more sales for a game at $1 than at $30, but there's a higher profit margin on the $30 game, pretty sure something like Mario Kart DS made more revenue than 99.999% of the Apple store.

Not to mention I didn't once say that western games haven't been successful. It's a shame considering outside of the indies and the occasional one-off, most of what they make puts me to sleep with their dull, focus-tested, limited risk/reward gameplay and heavy focus on re-telling a hollywood blockbuster wannabe plot (I don't particularly like the summer blockbuster style movie either).

 

[Karuto]

I just don't think it's right to point at Japanese publishers and accuse them for not appealing to use when our tastes in this current generation are more ambiguous than ever and it's nigh impossible to figure out when it comes to creating new IP because of our stubborn attitudes. I think it's because as the gamers who weren't raised on the original consoles from the 90's and know how great those games were get older and you have the inception of 17 year old Jimmy who would rather play braindead yearly games such as Call of Duty or Madden then try something new, I think it talks more about the issues of the industry than the problems Japanese publishers are having penetrating our market. When you have a company like Square-Enix even saying that they have sworn off the non-mainstream market, then you know a big reason why a lot of gamers are turning to the indie market where they have the ability to focus much more on creative aptitude and story-telling abilities because they don't have as much risk when it comes to creating new IPs that sell millions. Because even if Call of Duty is selling great, they are ignoring the millions of people whose gaming desires aren't being met in the process who are tired of the one-dimensional games on our market today. The fact that many American gamers seem to suffer from short attention spans more than ever and can only find appeal in games that last 5-6 hours that are mostly about blowing shit up and are still willing to pay $60 for them despite not really getting their money's worth in hindsight, at least when it comes to the hardcore gamer.

But then again, I guess Nintendo found its biggest success with the casual market and reaped the benefits of that. That their games are selling in the tens of millions despite this American mindset is testament to that and something to be admired, for the view that the hardcore gamer makes up the majority of the market is a very narrow one at best. Of course, I am not saying either side of the globe is innocent in that we are both rather xenophobic, but I think in terms of variety, the Japanese developers have a better look on things than the American publishers do. But that's just my opinion.

I don't mean to sound sexist with the following comment, but I think the same goes for the female gamer in that they find more appeal in Japanese games than they do American games as a lot of them seem much more tailored to men than they do women. They enjoy games like Professor Layton, Pokemon, and JRPGs more than they do Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, and Battlefield. I am not saying that there are no Western games that they like, but when it comes to wider gender appeal, Japanese publishers seem to have a better understanding, at least in my view.

 

[Super Smash Bro]

Let me amend my statement by saying not all games should be $60, but Steam clearly has devalued the medium on PC. AAA game prices should be going up, not down (this is why you see online pass and other non sense). Also, no one would like Steam if not for the sales, it's not like it's exceptional in any other area.

 

[Karuto]

Let me amend my statement by saying not all games should be $60, but Steam clearly has devalued the medium on PC. AAA game prices should be going up, not down (this is why you see online pass and other non sense). Also, no one would like Steam if not for the sales, it's not like it's exceptional in any other area.

Let's put this argument in a different way. There is clearly a demand for games priced lower, which is why you see the monumental rise of platforms such as Steam and the mobile app marketplace since there are seeing sales in the tens of millions. If there is a devalue in AAA games on Steam, then I can't see it because I see games like Skyrim and Modern Warfare 3 rise in price on the PC to $60 a pop. Heck, Skyrim was the most successful game on Steam even at that price point.

Also, online passes have no bearing on Steam as this is obviously a PC platform and a used game marketplace doesn't exist due to the fact you have serial codes and whatnot. The prices on Steam are due to their decisions. It's the same reason you see a lot of sales on Amazon where they give out things such as gift cards and flash sales on boxed retail products - they dictate the prices and take the hit for it. The publishers are the ones who typically set the prices that they want, which is why the Call of Cthulhu developers were able to sell their games below than $5 mark and made a killing in the process.

Saying no one would like Steam if not for the sales is kinda ignorant. A lot of publishers and consumers love Steam because of the community it offers (which is very, very exceptional amongst the other platforms) and the Steamworks DRM that lets them protect themselves with DRM while offering a lot to the end user. And of course people like the sales because, once again, there is a lot of demand for lower-priced items. Why else would you see lead game designers such as David Jaffe and Cliff Bleszinski come out and say that they think video games cost too much? The fact that you have to pay $60 for a 6 hour experience is ridiculous.

 

[blame space]

Let me amend my statement by saying not all games should be $60, but Steam clearly has devalued the medium on PC. AAA game prices should be going up, not down (this is why you see online pass and other non sense). Also, no one would like Steam if not for the sales, it's not like it's exceptional in any other area.

bro..

 

[LosDaddie]

And yet those estimates are using outdated figures because some of the top selling games of this generation didn't come out or were just starting to make their impact.

So provide updated numbers if you feel JPN devs have made such a dramatic turnaround since 2009.

These articles you posted only reinforce the point I made that the cultural differences have created a bigger divide than they did before, which is why Japanese influence hasn't been as obvious as it used to be, even if there are plenty of gamers here still willing to buy their games.

If this is true, then we are arguing the same point, and are in agreement.

And I find that 1UP over-generalizes the Japanese market to a ridiculous degree, and I don't take it seriously one bit.

That's your choice. There are actual JPN devs, like Capcom's Inafune, who do take the trend seriously.

Since when was the DS last gen?

Since the 3DS launched last year. It's a nice handheld. I enjoyed SM 3D Land quite a bit.

And Japanese publishers like Nintendo did dominate the market last gen, because you had franchises such as Pokemon, Mario, and Super Smash Bros. selling tens of millions of units, more than most Western-made games. That is certainly market domination, and puts them higher than the other publishers in terms of sales.

My point was that the Gamecube certainly did not dominate last gen. The GCN sold the least amount of consoles. Nintendo had a few hits like usual, and that was about all. It was all Sony last gen, with over 70% marketshare.

What point are you trying to make?

My point has been clear all along; That JPN games/devs no longer dominate the console market. I've even provided articles to back up this assertion.

 

[LosDaddie]

How the hell do you get that people losing their jobs makes me happy from what I said?

Seemed like an odd statement to make, that's all. Almost seemed like a gleeful remark, actually.

I'm just telling it like it is, there's a much bigger risk when it comes to aiming for the big-budget Call of Duty pie than there is making more financially-reasonable games.

The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward (or failure). Nothing new or noteworthy in the business world. Devs/pubs are still trying to figure out works and what doesn't. Again, just the typical business cycle.

pretty sure something like Mario Kart DS made more revenue than 99.999% of the Apple store.

But what about that Angry Birds?

It's a shame considering outside of the indies and the occasional one-off, most of what they make puts me to sleep with their dull, focus-tested, limited risk/reward gameplay and heavy focus on re-telling a hollywood blockbuster wannabe plot (I don't particularly like the summer blockbuster style movie either).

Different folks, different strokes. This has been the Best Gen Ever for me. I enjoy the AAA blockbuster games, and the smaller XBLA/PSN games.

 

[spirity]

My point has been clear all along; That JPN games/devs no longer dominate the console market. I've even provided articles to back up this assertion.

We've seen western titles sell gangbusters this gen, 10m, 20m, 25m. Its exploded and I'm frankly staggered by the numbers.

I do love the AAA 'hollywood blockbuster' games, always have always will, but this gen has also seen me getting into the Minecrafts and Bastions, something I've not done before. It's a fantastic time to be a gamer imo.

 

[BrownieVonTurdmeisterIII]

Handhelds suck and I wish they would die.

 

[CadetMahoney]

JPN games/devs no longer dominate the console market.

true and thank God.

Wow, this thread is still alive? I figured someone would get so butthurt and demand this thread get closed a long time ago.

First we need to find something so controversial even the Prophet Muhammed doesn’t talk about it.

 

[Karuto]

So provide updated numbers if you feel JPN devs have made such a dramatic turnaround since 2009.

If we're talking about since 2009, Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver and Black/White hadn't come out yet, Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Marvel vs Capcom 3, Gran Turismo 5, etc., of course the 3DS with its multi-million selling games weren't out yet.

The best selling games of this generation can be found on the Wii console, with over 800 million units sold. Those sales figures are more than Sony and Microsoft's combined. On the PS3, out of the Top 10 games sold on that platform, 4 are on there, but 2 are on top (Gran Turismo 5 and 5 Prologue). I won't mention the Xbox 360 because there are very few developers who work on that platform over in Japan and actually find success. The fact that Nintendo is on top with 14 of their 15 best selling games all being Japanese should show that there is plenty of global appeal right there.

Since the 3DS launched last year. It's a nice handheld. I enjoyed SM 3D Land quite a bit.

But outside of the Vita launch next week, there has been no other consoles. I guess that means Japan is dominating this gen by a large degree by that logic? lol

That's your choice. There are actual JPN devs, like Capcom's Inafune, who do take the trend seriously.

Yes, but they have also said the future of Japanese development appears to be in the handheld space, which is why publishers over there have ramped up production in that space as opposed to on the consoles. There's clearly far more demand there than in the console space. If Westerns refuse to buy games made in Japan when they'd rather get their jollies off of war games and the like, why would they waste their money in that arena when they can make tons more in that space? Inafune likes to comment how he doesn't like the direction that Japanese game development is going, but it's just like in the West where due to production costs skyrocketing, they can't afford to take as many risks as they used to in the sixth generation with the PS2, so the games that could have that global appeal are trapped over there, unless it has strong word of mouth like Demons Souls did. He can criticize the quality of Japanese gaming all he wants, but to be absolutely clear, it hasn't really improved here in the West either when you get right down to it. In Inafune's case, he didn't say that the industry is dying, but more that there is this strong shift from consoles to handhelds which is abundantly clear. You even see a lot of Western publishers moving to the social gaming and smartphone space because they make much bigger margins there.

Aside from the Wii being a symbol of a Japanese publisher dominating the market, you'll see exponential growth of Japanese domination in the handheld space, where the biggest sales are already happening. Analysts that say that the Japanese impact is waning are the same people who said that Nintendo is doomed and they should leave the market multiple times. hehe

My point was that the Gamecube certainly did not dominate last gen. The GCN sold the least amount of consoles. Nintendo had a few hits like usual, and that was about all. It was all Sony last gen, with over 70% marketshare.

I said Nintendo dominated, not Gamecube. You're forgetting the Game Boy Advance which was also part of that generation, selling over 80 million units. In that space, Nintendo had a 90% market share. Clearly the PS2 was on top when it came to consoles and software sales, no doubt about it. Regardless, you're talking hardware manufacturers here. On the PS2, some of their best selling games were made in Japan, just how some of the best selling games in this generation were made in Japan. There's not as much discrepancy in either periods.

 

[djtiesto]

true and thank God.

Why hate? I think it's a shame that such great games with awesome mechanics and creative art styles (like say, Valkyria Chronicles) gets utterly ignored in the states, and think most other people who deem themselves gamers should feel the same way.

Then again your name is very similar to my ex's last name so I already don't care for you very much

 

[Trickster]

Crysis 1 was not a good game.

Aliens were boring to fight. Suit abilities were a hassle to use. Shitty open jungle levels were boring, ugly, and dumb. AI was bad, why can they see me through folliage when I can't see them? -_-

 

[LosDaddie]

I do love the AAA 'hollywood blockbuster' games, always have always will, but this gen has also seen me getting into the Minecrafts and Bastions, something I've not done before. It's a fantastic time to be a gamer imo.

Agreed. XBLA/PSN is one of the best things to come out of this gen.

If we're talking about since 2009, Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver and Black/White hadn't come out yet, Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Marvel vs Capcom 3, Gran Turismo 5, etc., of course the 3DS with its multi-million selling games weren't out yet.

That's nice, but you're still not refuting the 2009 number I posted from the NYT.

The best selling games of this generation can be found on the Wii console, with over 800 million units sold. Those sales figures are more than Sony and Microsoft's combined.
The fact that Nintendo is on top with 14 of their 15 best selling games all being Japanese should show that there is plenty of global appeal right there.

All you're doing is reinforcing my statement of Nintendo (and Capcom) being one of the few JPN devs with global appeal. So...thanks!

Also, I'm going to need some citation on that 800M Wii software > PS360's software sales combined figure there.

But outside of the Vita launch next week,


Yes, but they have also said the future of Japanese development appears to be in the handheld space,

you'll see exponential growth of Japanese domination in the handheld space,

You're forgetting the Game Boy Advance which was also part of that generation,.

I have consistently focued on consoles, not handhelds, in this discussion. I don't know why you keep bringing handhelds up. :lol

And yes, there is quite a discpreceny between last gen and the current gen, as the NTY article pointed out.

 

[djtiesto]

Agreed. XBLA/PSN is one of the best things to come out of this gen.

Finally, one thing we can agree on. I'd also add XBLIG and Wii Virtual Console to that too (don't really follow Wiiware/DSIware much but there's been some decent stuff on it).

 

[xHAASx]

Crysis 1 was not a good game.

Aliens were boring to fight. Suit abilities were a hassle to use. Shitty open jungle levels were boring, ugly, and dumb. AI was bad, why can they see me through folliage when I can't see them? -_-

Of the same view, in some degree. Grandiose graphics, but irksome gameplay.

 

[Karuto]

That's nice, but you're still not refuting the 2009 number I posted from the NYT.

And it still goes back to the fact that, although NYT cites the Tokyo Game Show, these were all games clearly still in development and many launching this year. I don't know what number the NYT are citing when it comes to hardware sales, as Nintendo and Sony are clearly both Japanese hardware manufacturers and their numbers combined more than double what Microsoft has with the Xbox 360. It says that the best selling game of

All you're doing is reinforcing my statement of Nintendo (and Capcom) being one of the few JPN devs with global appeal. So...thanks!

Also, I'm going to need some citation on that 800M Wii software > PS360's software sales combined figure there.

That was never a secret here and I never disputed it. I clearly said that Nintendo and Capcom's dominance in the video game publishing space has always been the case with other publishers falling in line behind them. This is why I compared them to EA and Activision, because their sales numbers line up and are actually for the most part a lot smaller than Nintendo's. While other publishers on either end struggle to find as big of success, these two on both sides of the pond are doing fine. There are a good share of standout titles from both sides this generation, but none on the same scale. However, on the handheld front, the publishers have been experiencing a bounce back in profit and are finding a lot of success there. We established that a long time ago, and my last post wasn't a confirmation.

For the sales figures, I used the fiscal year charts from the different hardware manufacturers. However, I will retract those because it was based back in the fiscal years ending in 2010 and I scaled up to match today's possible numbers, but I realize since I posted that it would be inaccurate by any stretch. At that time, however, total PS3 software sales were 315.3 million, Microsoft sold 353.8 million, and the Wii sold 716.09 million. However, as of this moment according to trending charts on ********, the Wii still has about 100 million unit lead over the competition. I won't factor in the Nintendo DS, but if we did it would be 839.48 million. Considering most of Nintendo's games that are chart toppers on the Wii and DS are developed by them (no surprise there), that's still highly respectable.

I have consistently focued on consoles, not handhelds, in this discussion. I don't know why you keep bringing handhelds up. :lol

You never said we can only focus on consoles. You said the gaming industry hasn't been impacted by Japanese developers and publishers as it did last generation, and I was proving the point that they are, but on the handheld front. And if they are selling tens of millions of software units there, doesn't that mean there's still an impact and global appeal, but more on that side of things, especially considering you have over 150 million DSs sold and more than 75 million PSPs sold? That certainly meets and may even exceed that of console sales.

And for that NYT article about the impact, when it says about the estimates, it's talking about the number of games sold only in Japan and the size of its market, not about how many games its publishers are selling in the world. That's why it keeps bringing up the "domestic game market" in the piece. That even Keiji Inafune's games flop over here is testament to something much larger than global sales numbers regardless, and more about how insanely ambiguous our tastes really are. There's a lot of culture clash between us and them that prevents a lot of the variety as there used to be. And once again, the skyrocketing production and publishing costs are making Japanese publishers focus more on the handheld space. If you want to play great Japanese games, you have to buy a Wii or a handheld device. I think if all you do is look at opinion pieces and not at the games people tend to getting a lot of enjoyment out of, of course you'd have this misconstrued look at the Japanese gaming industry. However, look closer, and you still see a lot of excitement over games from that side of the pond, including Metal Gear Solid, Pokemon, Gran Turismo, the Tales series, etc. 2012 looks to be a big year for Japanese publishers and there's plenty to be excited about.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Let me amend my statement by saying not all games should be $60, but Steam clearly has devalued the medium on PC. AAA game prices should be going up, not down (this is why you see online pass and other non sense). Also, no one would like Steam if not for the sales, it's not like it's exceptional in any other area.

PC games in general should never have the same RRP / MSRP as the same title on a console, because the PC is a platform where there is no hardware manufacturer taking a cut of the sale price in licensing fees.

AAA game prices have been devalued on PC primarily because the developers of AAA titles have devalued the PC as a platform in their pursuit of console owner cash.

If you're a publisher, and you think I will be prepared to pay the same amount of money for a title that;
- doesn't pass on the licence fee savings to me as a customer
- doesn't have basic usability changes for the platform I am playing on (like being able to use a mouse on a menu screen)
- is months later than the same title on a different platform
- is infected with shitty DRM

then you're in for a shock when the only sales you pick up are when the title is at 50%.

 

[xHAASx]

It's kinda beautiful.

It's eternal.

 

[Lord Snow]

Mass Effect isn't that good.

 

[Ramblin]

Mass Effect isn't that good.

I've never been a fan myself, but I hear if you're a sci-fi fan it's the bees knees.

 

[rosaceadude2112]

I've never been a fan myself, but I hear if you're a sci-fi fan it's the bees knees.

It's neat that it emulates the visual designs from a lot of classic sci-fi sources, but I'd have to imagine that a big sci-fi fan would be disappointed that it never explores any of the same themes as classic sci-fi and instead settles on a hackneyed plot about saving the universe from space satan.

 

[Correctomundo]

I've never been a fan myself, but I hear if you're a sci-fi fan it's the bees knees.

Incorrectomundo.

 

[Karuto]

It's neat that it emulates the visual designs from a lot of classic sci-fi sources, but I'd have to imagine that a big sci-fi fan would be disappointed that it never explores any of the same themes as classic sci-fi and instead settles on a hackneyed plot about saving the universe from space satan.

^^ This. I guess it's because I'm a pretty big fan of space sims, and would love a game that would take that and run with some great on-foot action combat. I think Dust 512 is close to that realization. Of course, you also have other games like FreeSpace 2, DarkStar One, and Evochron Mercenary. Games like Mass Effect just seem extremely small and tame in comparison, and the RPG mechanics aren't done that well to warrant enough enjoyment. The story is also fairly basic and just plain boring at times.

In fact, that reminds of this game called Precursors. It's a Russian game that is FPS meets vehicle combat meets space sim, with RPG mechanics thrown in for good measure. Here is a review by Rock, Paper, Shotgun: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/01/04/wot-i-think-precursors/

 

[spekkeh]

That's pretty much "I love militaristic shooters like Modern Warfare with big explosions and awesome setpieces. Sure Mass Effect has shooting and explosions, but it feels so small and tame in comparison".

 

[Blake'sGrave]

I love the sci fi world they've created with mass effect, it kind of keeps me loyal when there's bad design/plot decisions.
My controversial opinion's probably that Driver: Parallel Lines was a really fun game, at least the 1979 portion was anyway.

 

[Duxxy3]

Vita is going nowhere without added value or a price drop.

 

[N4Us]

Vita is going nowhere without added value or a price drop.

I honestly keep forgetting that it's nearly out.

 

[Vorg]

Mother 3 was more enjoyable than 95 percent of all games this generation and should have been released in the west already. It feels like a game with a soul and I honestly don't remember the last time I played something that special.

Come on Nintendo, just strike a deal with Starmen and use their translation. Put translated rom on virtual console. Zero work involved. Profit!

 

[Cyborg771]

I wish more studios took a google like design method and experimented with small projects during downtime. I could do with about half as many AAA titles and a lot more small short games.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Rayman 4 should have been made instead of Rayman Origins. No matter how good the latter was, as someone who actually has a Wii to play games and not solely as a dust trap, there wasn't really any level mechanic or design that I haven't already seen in Donkey Kong Country Returns, NSMBWii, etc. . Even the graphics, while beautiful, didn't really blow me away after Muramasa and Wario Land Shake.
Rayman 4 on the other hand could have been way more refreshing plus breathtaking with its art realised as a 3D HD platformer, and imo more successful.

On the same subject, Raving Rabbids should have never been made, or either finished development to become a proper platformer. It killed the Rayman franchise and the bunnies were never funny. They have the same exact joke repeated over and over for years. (Rabbid does something stupid, yells...)

 

[cacildo]

Im not happy with videogames right now

 

[Karuto]

On the same subject, Raving Rabbids should have never been made, or either finished development to become a proper platformer. It killed the Rayman franchise and the bunnies were never funny. They have the same exact joke repeated over and over for years. (Rabbid does something stupid, yells...)

I thought Raving Rabbids: Travel in Time was actually a very good game and surprisingly highly enjoyable considering I too had an issue with how much Ubisoft shoved the series down our throats. I do not know if you would give it a chance, though, if you felt that it ruined Rayman. I honestly think they're so far removed from Rayman as a character that people are still very willing to play another game of his - Rayman Origins is a really good example. I don't really know why there needed to be a Rayman 4 as I find it to be extremely refreshing and breath taking, especially the levels and the soundtrack.

 

[Blake'sGrave]

I can't stand the Forza series, I prefer NFS: Shift.
And now to sit back and prepare to be destroyed.

 

[LosDaddie]

It's worth it, absolutely. Not necessarily for the special surprise, but more so because it's an excuse to get more value out of the game. More fantastic level design ftmfw!

Thanks, man. I decided to go ahead and get the final 15 stars in SMG1. I got 6 of them last night. Quite the nice challenge getting all those purple coins! Going for the rest tonight.

Finally, one thing we can agree on. I'd also add XBLIG and Wii Virtual Console to that too (don't really follow Wiiware/DSIware much but there's been some decent stuff on it).

Yup. Some of the best experiences I've had this gen have come from the DL scene. Outland was in my Top 5 Games last year. Such a quality throwback.

You never said we can only focus on consoles.

That's because you haven't been paying attention, and instead trying to defend JPN devs against some perceived slight. Go back and re-read my posts. I've focused only on consoles in this discussion. Heck, the first post of mine you repsonded to was talking about MS. Why would you think I'm talking about handhelds? :lol

It's no relevation that JPN devs/pubs, for the most part, have shifted focus away from consoles to handhelds. So, you're not bringing anything new to light here.

Also, there's a good reason why chartzzzz is a banned site on GAF.

 

[Karuto]

You never said that Japanese devs have lost their global appeal on consoles. All you said when you started it was this, as you mentioned:

JPN lost their dominance this gen because their games no longer have mass market appeal. That's not Microsoft's fault.

This gen, as in video gaming on a whole in the past 7 years. Just because Microsoft didn't make a handheld and decides not to doesn't mean we should cancel out Nintendo and Sony's efforts for that alone. That would be completely ignoring the fact that some of the biggest franchises out there are selling the most on handhelds. For example, take a look at Square-Enix: while they have only released Final Fantasy XIII and XIII-2 on consoles, they have put out Final Fantasy Dissidia and Duodecim, Final Fantasy Type-0, Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII, Dragon Quest IX (and the remakes of IV-VII, of which no DQ appeared on consoles), several Kingdom Hearts games (with no KH game on consoles). All of these games experienced both critical and commercial success with millions of units sold each.

You even say in your post that it's no revelation that they've moved to handhelds, as I've put in my posts. You can't just suddenly say, "Hey, I know I was making a case against Japanese pubs/devs by using broad terms and never narrowing the hardware market, but don't bring that handheld nonsense in here that contradicts what I'm saying!" When these same companies are finding much more commercial success on handhelds than they did on consoles this entire generation, can you really blame them? The evidence is clear as day why even a lot of Western publishers and developers are putting less money into the console market than they used to, when you have colossal failures like Homefront, Red Faction: Armageddon, Shadows of the Damned, Brink, and many others. Heck, even one of the biggest Western publishers, THQ, has been on the brink of financial ruin these past few months. The industry actually shrunk for the first time last year due in part to these reasons, amongst other outside shrapnel. Give it a couple years and we could be seeing Japanese publishers and developers ahead of the curve by moving to handhelds, smartphones, and PC services like Steam where they can make a much higher margin. It sounds crazy, but it could be where publishers on a whole make most of their money. Epic Games made a killing on the mobile app space with Infinity Blade, so it could easily happen.

And I don't think it was ever a secret that Wii was selling more software than either the PS3 or Xbox 360. Sure, the attach rate may not be as high, but when we're talking about a console with nearly 100 million units sold vs. 70 million for the other two, of course there will be far more software sales, and it doesn't change the fact that Nintendo has most of the best selling games of this generation.

 

[LosDaddie]

You never said that Japanese devs have lost their global appeal on consoles.

Again, you just haven't been paying attention, and instead are defending JPN devs against an imaginary slight. If you had followed the convo you quoted me on, then you would've known that I was only discussing the console market, especially because I was talking about MS.

Like I said, go back and re-read my posts. It'll be clear I was only discussing the console market. The articles I posted for you to read were discussing the console market.

Go ahead and bring up the handheld market. No one is going to dispute the JPN influence there. :lol

And I don't think it was ever a secret that Wii was selling more software than either the PS3 or Xbox 360. Sure, the attach rate may not be as high, but when we're talking about a console with nearly 100 million units sold vs. 70 million for the other two, of course there will be far more software sales, and it doesn't change the fact that Nintendo has most of the best selling games of this generation.

:lol
The PS360 are sitting at ~120M units sold right now. I'd really like to see where you got the figure of Wii software sales > PS360 software sales combined.

 

[Karuto]

The articles I posted for you to read were discussing the console market.

I read through all our conversations and never once did you discern whether you were talking strictly consoles or the market on a whole. In fact, you didn't put up much of a fuss about it until I talked about how the influence has moved to handhelds.

Also, those articles you posted even talked about the market as a whole, not just about consoles. In fact, both articles use a lot of images from handheld games from Japan, and talk a lot about the effect of both it and PC games have been influencing the country (such as how Japanese people are far more mobile than ever before and rely on handheld titles). How can I back this up that you were using selective information? Because the two things you quoted from the articles talked about the entire industry, including PC franchises. Don't be ridiculous.

The PS360 are sitting at ~120M units sold right now. I'd really like to see where you got the figure of Wii software sales > PS360 software sales combined.

I already corrected myself on the previous post I made that the Wii has a 100 million unit lead over the competition because I was using sales figures from Fiscal Year 2010. Ctrl+F it yourself if you want.

 

[LosDaddie]

I read through all our conversations and never once did you discern whether you were talking strictly consoles or the market on a whole. .

You obviously didn't read back far enough. Either that, or you're not paying close enough attention. The initial point of the discussion was strictly about the console market. Again, go back and re-read my posts.

EDIT:

Here, I'll be nice and help you out. This post is where the debate spawned from:

Americans ruined console gaming.

I responded to that post, and therefore have been discussing the console market only. This is why I've kept telling you to re-read my posts. It should've been clear I was discussing the console market, if you were paying attention.

 

[Karuto]

But the fact of the matter is you brought information about the entire industry into the conversation. Just because it started that way does not mean it followed the same path, and still doesn't change the fact that you posted articles talking about the Japanese gaming market as a whole, so whether you meant to or not, the conversation evolved from there into much more broad terms. Don't even start to patronize me for your own blunder.

 

[LosDaddie]

But the fact of the matter is you brought information about the entire industry into the conversation.

Indeed I did, and it was because the articles supported the point I was making about the console market. That's how debates are supposed to be played out. There has been no blunder on my part.

 

[spekkeh]

The dialogue wheel of Mass Effect is great and one of the better RPG innovations of the last ten years.

Not only does it speed up dialogue leading to more natural flowing conversations and is it pretty good from a usability perspective, but it facilitates something a lot more important. You can give the intended answer without having to know all the back story, whereas with the classical 'pick a line' you have to know every concept in that line, and consequently have to slog through endless lore before you can make meaningful decisions. The dialogue wheel facilitates a much more in medias res approach while still having player agency, which is to an extent why the mass effect games are so good.

 

[Meccanical]

The dialogue wheel of Mass Effect is great and one of the better RPG innovations of the last ten years.

Not only does it speed up dialogue leading to more natural flowing conversations and is it pretty good from a usability perspective, but it facilitates something a lot more important. You can give the intended answer without having to know all the back story, whereas with the classical 'pick a line' you have to know every concept in that line, and consequently have to slog through endless lore before you can make meaningful decisions. The dialogue wheel facilitates a much more in medias res approach while still having player agency, which is to an extent why the mass effect games are so good.

I would agree with that if anything Shepard said could equate to good writing.

 

[spekkeh]

Fair point xD