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Random fanboy says next gen expectations too high.

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I believe the killzone demo was target, but the hellghast(or however you spell that), environment, vehicles, and characters at a distance along with the 'fps gun' where done with ingame assets. Close-up humans, some effects, lighting and touch-ups were added to it.



As for the human close-ups I believe they can get pretty close, if not entirely match them in quality :D

DeanA's response to my and mckmas8808's questions with regards to the Alfred Molina demo, sure seem to hint so.
I've quoted the essence of the exchange along with some pics you can click to enlarge on my latest post over at NOUGAT BLOG .
 
Did you guys check the signature of the guy who made these comments:

When you say PS/PS2 has great games... You'll know you have been brainwashed!!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, he really sounds like a trustworthy source. Bring on E3.
 
If you watch the demo reel you see that it's pretty much CG. THE NEXT-GEN DREAM IS OVER. Poor Guerrilla biznitches, they are fucked no matter what they do.
 
tardbucket13pu.jpg
 
f you watch the demo reel you see that it's pretty much CG. THE NEXT-GEN DREAM IS OVER. Poor Guerrilla biznitches, they are fucked no matter what they do.
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I have playblasts from all my animations on my demo reel as well that has nothiing to do with whether my shots are realtime or not. But I agree with you on Guerilla. They literally have to top what was shown or they are gonna catch a ton of shit.
 
Oh snap. Confirmation.

I don't see much difference between using "in-game" assets and having another team create assets for you to use in-game. Which I gather Guerilla Games will do (why waste them?). I choose to call this rather bold move "outsourcing targetted media creation for representation of a next-gen game creation". Confuse the people Sony, borrow my line.

Ps; The CG creation was authorised by Guerilla to give Sony a representation of their vision for next-gen and Sony showed it at E3 without Guerillas prior knowledge. Thats how it went down, right?
 
Amir0x said:
Axsider posted in that b3d thread now claiming he "saw" Naughty Dog's game and a "a special SCE WW/SCEI title" and that they prove Killzone visuals are not out of the question :lol
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No seriously Axsider is the real deal. He has told me that he has seen these games before. He's seen Motorstorm in real-life and stated that the final game will look like the E3 video.
 
mckmas8808 said:
No seriously Axsider is the real deal. He has told me that he has seen these games before. He's seen Motorstorm in real-life and stated that the final game will look like the E3 video.
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So was Motorstorm real-time?
 
God the E3 demos were so long ago wouldn't it have been impossible for anything to have been running realtime on the hardware since the hardware was pretty far from being completed?
 
mckmas8808 said:
No seriously Axsider is the real deal. He has told me that he has seen these games before. He's seen Motorstorm in real-life and stated that the final game will look like the E3 video.
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How does telling you he has seen these things make him the real deal?

Hey mckmas8808, I've seen NAUGHTY DOG'S PS3 engine. Am I the real deal now? I'm just joshin' you, obviously, but you have to have something better than that :P
 
jett said:
:lol
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that's funny for two reason... one, it clearly wasn't, as much as i wanted to believe it was... :( two, he knows it isn't and is one of the most vocal detractors on o.p.a, as far as sony and their whole e3 conference is concerned. i don't know why he's putting on airs. :lol
 
Amir0x said:
How does telling you he has seen these things make him the real deal?

Hey mckmas8808, I've seen NAUGHTY DOG'S PS3 engine. Am I the real deal now? I'm just joshin' you, obviously, but you have to have something better than that :P
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give him a break guy. Who annouced Warhawk first wayy before E3? It was axisider

sangreal said:
:lol If you read that thread you'll find a post by one of the axis animation workers about the trailer. He links to his demo real which not only shows the Killzone footage, but also some of the behind the scenes work.

http://jeremy.lwidof.net/demoreel/index2.html

Anyone still want to claim its realtime? :lol

And here is what he says about it:
Click to expand...

OMG own3d! Sony busted :lol
 
Doom_Bringer said:
give him a break guy. Who annouced Warhawk first wayy before E3? It was axisider
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Did he? I don't remember that. Anyway, to me it just seems like he puts on a big act. Who is he that he saw Naughty Dog's engine, SCWW shit, all the Killzone stuff, Warhawk shit? I mean, to be able to see that it seems to me logically he would have to have a pretty important role within Sony.
 
Sure, as long as you realize that for him to be real he has to be like Phil Harrison or Kaz Hirai or something (exaggeration, but you get the point).

And GAF Admins usually know when someone that important posts here. And they usually don't end up permabanned for being fraud retards.
 
Amir0x said:
And GAF Admins usually know when someone that important posts here. And they usually don't end up permabanned for being fraud retards.
Click to expand...


Of course!! We believe in Jackfrost, yellowace, dcCharlie, nighttrain, and some other bunch of losers from Japan!
 
Doom_Bringer said:
Of course!! We believe in Jackfrost, yellowace, dcCharlie, nighttrain, and some other bunch of losers from Japan!
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That's QUITE a different situation. For one, JackFrost is Andrew Vestal... and we all know who that is. For another, nobody believes Nighttrain anymore. For even another, I don't believe YellowAce ever. And DCharlie is just a cool guy with a few connections, and some decent insight. He doesn't claim to have seen fifty different engines being worked on in a huge videogame company.
 
Speculation on how the Killzone E3 demo was created:
(complete speculation with no inside knowledge of anyone involved)

To spec models and terrain/scene are created by modelers at one of the companies

A storyboard is sketched out by someone at the two companies using the given set of models

Work is started getting shot sequences down in the art package - matching camera angles and model placements to the storyboards.

Work on the PS3 engine is going on in parallel - Probably a main engineer, particle/effect guy, animation/character/skinned model guy, and so on.

Model/scene exporter is also being worked on.

Most likely also some sort of camera/scene animation exporter is also being worked on.

Early versions of the various shots go back and forth as estimates for poly counts and other details are refined

This back and forth continues to the very end.

The final set of scenes are run through the engine which is setup to spit out each frame.

The engine is doing nothing but cranking through geometry and animation data. I believe they had the 2.4Ghz Cell devkits at that time. All the vertices are animated/transformed thru the SPEs and raw triangles are spit out to be rasterized. Fill rate is the main reason the scene runs so slow compared to the final hardware.

No AI,pathfinding,input,sound,or any other game code is running. Pure animated geometry and sprite/effect code.

The frames are put together into a set of animations. Sounds are added in. The clips are edited together. Possibly some post processing is do to clean some things up.

The final version of the animation looks very close to the sped up version running on the PS3. Effects and other details probably look different.

The final PS3 devkit generated animation heads off to be shown at E3.

We have already heard from another PS3 dev stating his belief that the scene seems to be within the range of the final PS3 hardware's capabilities.

In the end I think the real credit goes to the guy(s) doing the animation/camera/scene work.
 
Amir0x said:
Did he? I don't remember that. Anyway, to me it just seems like he puts on a big act. Who is he that he saw Naughty Dog's engine, SCWW shit, all the Killzone stuff, Warhawk shit? I mean, to be able to see that it seems to me logically he would have to have a pretty important role within Sony.
Click to expand...

I think its a good possiblity that he's the real deal, although I kinda hope he isn't because he shot down my hopes of a Primal 2. :/
 
Amir0x said:
Sure, as long as you realize that for him to be real he has to be like Phil Harrison or Kaz Hirai or something (exaggeration, but you get the point).
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In my experience the people at game companies who talk, or leak, the most are those with the least to lose if they are caught. Usually that ends up being testers, interns, or low level producers. And tend to be over the top in their entusiasm for the company they work for and the things their company is doing.
 
Amir0x said:
And DCharlie is just a cool guy with a few connections, and some decent insight. He doesn't claim to have seen fifty different engines being worked on in a huge videogame company.
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wow... i guess you weren't around for dcharlie's "huge changes in the industry," plus other assorted bullshit (no offense, guy). :/
 
the only thing I expect is high quality looking gta games


with that I mean a gta game that can look like re4/silent hill etc level detail and modeling, not some uber looking ut2007 or anything but just a game gta (or like gta) with the level of freedom and ALSO a impressive graphical display (face it gta gets by just enough)
 
"That's QUITE a different situation. For one, JackFrost is Andrew Vestal... and we all know who that is. For another, nobody believes Nighttrain anymore. For even another, I don't believe YellowAce ever. And DCharlie is just a cool guy with a few connections, and some decent insight. He doesn't claim to have seen fifty different engines being worked on in a huge videogame company."
Click to expand...

lol - the absolute irony is that Yellowace almost universally posts the truth (along with some ghei comments) and ends up getting people at certain companies into trouble! ha ha ha.
.

regardless, whether people believe that any of us have any connection to the industry at all, that's up to them. Given that pretty much everyone has quit dropping hints after E3 shit-throwing episode, it's a moot point because it's no longer worth it and half the reactions just aren't worth the hassle.
 
Marathon said:
Speculation on how the Killzone E3 demo was created:
(complete speculation with no inside knowledge of anyone involved)
Click to expand...

Does it really matter? Speculation is pretty pointless really. Just go with what you have right now officially - a trailer and a few screenshots from that. PS3 will come when it comes. Until then, enjoy playing your ps2, xbox/360, gc, ds, psp, gba, gpx2, gizmondo, ngage/2, pc/mac.
 
DCharlie said:
lol - the absolute irony is that Yellowace almost universally posts the truth (along with some ghei comments) and ends up getting people at certain companies into trouble! ha ha ha.
Click to expand...

Ahh that's the other guy that said RE5 was running on a 360 when people were arguing over which system it was from. I guess Kojima can ship Capcom a trailer now.
 
:lol @ marathon
SolidSnakex said:
I think its a good possiblity that he's the real deal, although I kinda hope he isn't because he shot down my hopes of a Primal 2. :/
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Is that that dinosaur fighting game?
Imagine that CG Call Of Duty TV ad running as realtime, in-game in COD3 on Xbox720
Click to expand...
That commercial didn't really impress me that much even for cgi. Killzone on the other hand.
 
dorio said:
Is that that dinosaur fighting game?
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Absolutely not, that was Primal Rage. Primal is Sony Cambridge's adventure game for the PS2. It gets some hate because of its battle system (which wasn't so bad afte rhte first world), everything else was top notch. They created one of the best engines for the PS2 also.
 
Marathon said:
In my experience the people at game companies who talk, or leak, the most are those with the least to lose if they are caught. Usually that ends up being testers, interns, or low level producers. And tend to be over the top in their entusiasm for the company they work for and the things their company is doing.
Click to expand...


Woah, that sounds a bit like Jaffe.

I keed, I keed!
 
SolidSnakex said:
Absolutely not, that was Primal Rage. Primal is Sony Cambridge's adventure game for the PS2. It gets some hate because of its battle system (which wasn't so bad afte rhte first world), everything else was top notch. They created one of the best engines for the PS2 also.
Click to expand...
Sorry about the confusion.
 
Marathon said:
Is that bad?
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Not necessarily, but his enthusiasm tweaks my BS detector. Just like the cat from ATI talking about the superiority of the 360 over the PS3 and the RSX tweaked my BS detector. I don't have a problem with people being enthusiastic about a product that they may have a hand in developing, but it doesn't mean that I take everything that they say as gospel either.
 
Amirox said:
holy crap, Marathon, you're like the Sony DrGAKMAN.
Click to expand...

:lol Now THAT should be a tag

Marathon said:
Speculation on how the Killzone E3 demo was created:
(complete speculation with no inside knowledge of anyone involved)
Click to expand...

Speculation on how the Killzone E3 demo was created:
(complete speculation with no inside knowledge of anyone involved)

Phil Harrison calls Guerilla biz dev: "You guys, Killzone tanked. Now, you'll get a second chance if you deliver the most kick ass trailer in the world for our PS3 unveiling in E3. This crap with NVIDIA coming in this late means that you don't have hardware to worry of at this point. You get 500K to do it. No questions asked.

Guerilla biz dev: Consider it done.

* calls best 3D / post production company in London *

Guerilla biz dev: Here's 300K and copy of Killzone on PS2, come up with some crazy shit.

Post production company account manager: Consider it done.
 
HokieJoe said:
Not necessarily, but his enthusiasm tweaks my BS detector. Just like the cat from ATI talking about the superiority of the 360 over the PS3 and the RSX tweaked my BS detector. I don't have a problem with people being enthusiastic about a product that they may have a hand in developing, but it doesn't mean that I take everything that they say as gospel either.
Click to expand...

Other than his comments on the power difference between the PS3 and 360, he really isn't that over enthusiastic. Still I can't wait to see what Sony Santa Monica's PS3 game looks like with the engine being a collaboration between them, Insomniac and Naughty Dog.
 
RE5 was not real-time by fuckin far.

Since the game is being built ground up for the 360, you can make valid comparisons to proven real-time games from Capcom such as Dead Rising and Lost Planet.

You're telling me Capcom decides to single out RE5 and use it's super fuckin holy shit that's real graphic engine for that game and give the shaft to Dead Rising/Lost Planet. No, I don't think so. I'd imagine RE5 to look better than above said games since it probably has the larger budget (and taking into consideration Lost Planet is an action game that's proabably running at 60 fps and Dead Rising has large enemy counts), I'm sure RE5 would when all said and done looks better at 30 fps but it won't look like that. Of course how awesome would it be for Capcom to prove me wrong.

capcom-unveils-lost-planet-20051210041154050.jpg


A game looks like that, but oh wait--everybody, as one of the first games to show as a 360 title, hold the fuck up, behold this!!

resident-evil-5-20050722055033421.jpg


hahahaha...haha...ha...NO.

EDIT: Err, wait...actually now that I look at it--it kind of does seem that RE5 can hit that level of detail :lol
 
whoa... when did Capcom say RE5 was being built 'from the ground up' on the 360? I must have missed that.

All I remember reading was PS3/360 and no specifics yet.
 
C- Warrior said:
Since the game is being built ground up for the 360
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Has it been confirmed what the development structure for RE5 is exactly (seperate teams or one team/base)? You seem to infer 360 will be the base but I figured if they're using one platform to port from PS3 would be the more efficient choice since they'll have more threads to deal with (w/ multi-core it'll be easier to port downward from more threads to less threads than vice versa).
 
gofreak said:
I'd kind of actually be surprised that a 3D renderer company etc. would be aware of every single piece of work produced using their software. I doubt Sony called them up and let them know. Maybe this guy got a support ticket from them or something ;)

I don't doubt the Killzone trailer was prerendered, but this guy..
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yes actually they would have, any time you're dealing with high production the users making shaders, and textures and lighting setups for what ever rendering engine they're using will be working with the company that made the program to get the most out of it that they can, and if it's something that's going to catch the consumers eye and such then the development company will want to use it in advertising, just head over to pixar's Renderman site and you'll see Squaresoft stuff all over it, or head over to Softimage's XSI site and you'll see tons of video games stuff on there, or head over to Alias' Maya website and same thing

it's all part of the bigger advertising picture, in the CG world when some one sees something really cool half the time the first words out of their mouth are "Who made it and what program did they use?"

So I would say with much confidence that the team that did the pre-rendered killzone video worked pretty closely with developers and programmers of which ever rendering program it was rendered in
 
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