Ellie is immune, the show treats this as pretty unique with no references to anyone else ever being immune. Once Marlene knows Ellie is immune why would she not start to think if there's something special about Ellie? Her mother being infected at the time of birth should've been a clue.This is the pattern with you when it comes to this IP.
You make an incorrect statement.
You are corrected that she doesn't.
You move the goalposts. How could she know the circumstances that leads to immunity? Is she knowledgeable on the topic of passive and active immunity, does she know about innate immunity and adaptive immunity?
Connect what dot? She is not an immunologist, she isn't pursuing the cure herself, they have a team of scientist doing that. They haven't figured it out in the 20 years of the pandemic but somehow Marlene who is not a scientist nor an immunologist should connect the dots and figure it out what causes Ellie to be immune?
Is Ellie the only child that has been born from an infected mother in the 20 years since the pandemic? How is Ellie unique in that regards? You are adding details that make the story less plausible.
The dots in this case would be that the mother lied or was mistaken about the baby being 100% free of infection and that perhaps killing Ellie within hours of getting to that hospital isn't the wisest of approaches. Whether the Fireflies are hardcore enough to go experimenting on pregnant women could've been interesting.Ask yourself, what would connecting the dots as you prescribe add to the story? You are so smart; did you figure out the cause of COVID 19, or did you wait for much smarter people to create the vaccine?
So it's not beyond the mom to lie to save her new born child, I'm sure even Marlene could understand that. She probably would've killed the child if there were clear signs of infection either way.Because the other option was that Ellie is also infected therefore, she would have to kill Ellie as well. That is why the mom stressed that she'd been bitten after giving birth and not before.
I can understand that about episode 1. It was the weakest part of the game too.1. Episode 3
2. Episode 1 (1st half)
3. Episode 5
4. Episode 2
5. Episode 8
6. Episode 9
7. Episode 6
8. Episode 4
9. Episode 7
10. Episode 1 (2nd half)
3 is one of the hours of TV I've ever seen
Episode 1 starts out absolutely amazing but the post-outbreak part is really poorly put together. Lots of jumping around without context. My family were hooked after the first 30 mins but barely wanted to watch episode 2 after the rest.
Episode 4 is basically just a set up for 5, which delivers a huge payoff.
7 has some amazing ambience but the teenage love story feels forced and pretty cringe. Especially as it's someone who's nearly 17 getting with a 14 year-old.
So you're saying Episode 5 wasnt a banger with the infected hoarde and bloater? It was definitely better than the game.ep9 was by far the best one, and even then only because it was saved by the hospital rampage scene, (which was shot kinda weird as well...)
everything else was just boring and uneventful.
I actually didn't like that part. Bloater felt out of place. I would have introduced it in the tunnels to make it more scary.So you're saying Episode 5 wasnt a banger with the infected hoarde and bloater? It was definitely better than the game.
I just think that was the misdirection for viewers who played the game. You would have expected a bloater to be in the tunnels. Same way how many people expected Tommy, Joel and Sarah to get hit by another car in EP.1, but it was topped by a plane crash.I actually didn't like that part. Bloater felt out of place. I would have introduced it in the tunnels to make it more scary.
Its always odd to me how mass opinions are formed unreasonably. Hivemind.
Episode 3 in a vacuum is a below average episode, due to illogical storytelling, tonal inconsistencies, and objective irrelevance to the protagonists save a contrived letter in the end.
not in a vacuum and compared to the story it is derived from, it is an abomination of self indulgent fodder that does an absurd disservice to the original characters, their interactions, and their affect on the main characters, the world, and their journey.
if you think this is great storytelling, you are objectively wrong and misunderstand everything about the journey of ellie and joel and their evolution together.
It was alright, wasn't tense at all though, the horde just kills a bunch of faceless random and big boi shows up and...does basically nothing only to then walk off into the sunrise never to be seen againSo you're saying Episode 5 wasnt a banger with the infected hoarde and bloater? It was definitely better than the game.
Its just 9 episodes and I think they are very different from each other.Don't get how you guys discern one episode from the next.
It all melts together for every single TV show I've ever watched.
Another issue this "addition" brings is that Marlene knew what could make people be born with immunities but she did nothing with that information in pursuit of the cure.
Then that's real dumb of her not to connect the dots when she's also pursuing the cure as hard as she was.
Why would she not start to think of what set Ellie apart from everyone else? She believed the mom initially sure, but once she discovered the immunity a smart person would've started connecting the dots when perusing a cure. Marlene seemed to have doubts at first and the mom had to stress that she'd been bitten afterwards.
The Fireflies have shown they've willing to kill teen patients without informed consent so lying about the kind of tests they'd be doing on a pregnant woman doesn't seem so beyond them to me.Marlene didn't know Ellie was immune until she was bitten, and that was 3 weeks prior to meeting Joel.
You love to point out how the fireflies are incompetent so, let's use your argument here.
In order to see if the theory is true, then Marlene would have to find a mother who is willing to sacrifice her life before giving birth to her child. On top of all of this, Marlene would have to infect the child to see if it's immune.
You missed the point.The Fireflies have shown they've willing to kill teen patients without informed consent so lying about the kind of tests they'd be doing on a pregnant woman doesn't seem so beyond them to me.
That's not incompetence, just very unethical. The incompetency with them is how rushed the operation is after just a few hours when there's no way they could've known all there is to know about Ellie's immunity.You missed the point.
You said the fireflies were incompetent for not informing Ellie first.
If the Fireflies are hardcore enough in pursuit of a cure then yes(they have the unethical part down at least).Now you're saying Marlene should've infected the mother and then the child to make someone who is immune. So this goes against your incompetent narrative you always push.
It's the inability to do something unsuccessfully.That's not incompetence, just very unethical. The incompetency with them is how rushed the operation is after just a few hours when there's no way they could've known all there is to know about Ellie's immunity.
If the Fireflies are hardcore enough in pursuit of a cure then yes(they have the unethical part down at least).
Nah, would've made more sense if Joel and Ellie had gotten time to tie any loose ends first(assuming Ellie's still willing to undergo the operation at that point in her life).It's the inability to do something unsuccessfully.
You're saying Marlene should've bypassed all of this (from a story perspective). She would need to find a willing participant to sacrifice their life and two, the child would have to later agree to risk their life.
Not if the FireFlies are hardcore enough to pursue that avenue.This scenario from a story standpoint wouldn't make sense.
From a logical standpoint, it would've made sense for both Marlene and Joel ask Ellie first.Nah, would've made more sense if Joel and Ellie had gotten time to tie any loose ends first(assuming Ellie's still willing to undergo the operation at that point in her life).
The tv show's "addition" is what's making Marlene (and the Fireflies) seem more incompetent than in the game.
Why you assume she's not willing to lie about the true purpose of the experiments? We've seen getting informed consent is not a roadblock for her.
Not if the FireFlies are hardcore enough to pursue that avenue.
Ellie didn't know she would die. They show her talk about the future with Joel in episodes 6 and 9.From a story perspective, it wouldn't. They made Ellie unconscious for a reason because it would allow Marlene and Joel to make the decision for her. The wrench in all of this is that Marlene and Joel both knew what Ellie wanted to do.
Ellie didn't know she was going to die, but they both knew the decision Ellie would have wanted to make. That's why Joel lied to her.Ellie didn't know she would die. They show her talk about the future with Joel in episodes 6 and 9.
Nah, in the TV show Ellie is conscious but Marlene still choose not to inform her. It's ultimately still Ellie's choice to make but the Fireflies took it away from her first.From a logical standpoint, it would've made sense for both Marlene and Joel ask Ellie first.
From a story perspective, it wouldn't. They made Ellie unconscious for a reason because it would allow Marlene and Joel to make the decision for her. The wrench in all of this is that Marlene and Joel both knew what Ellie wanted to do.
The TV show is the same as the game. You're getting your talking points from tlou2 reddit, which always fails. lol
And I've corrected myself by limiting to the recording which still prove my point that the Fireflies had made no advancements in developing a vaccine(which implies failures) which casts doubt on the Fireflies competency.You assuming they would based on your misinterpretation of the fireflies. The other day you said the notes prove how reckless they were and when I asked you to quote these documents, you basically admitted it wasn't true.
Neither does the being immune because you were born shortly after the mother got infected but the show included it so it has to deal with additional issues. The Fireflies don't concern themselves with getting informed consent so why wouldn't they perform experiments on a pregnant women under false pretences for their agenda?The story wouldn't make too much sense and it would be far too convenient for both the mother and the child (when older) to be willing participants.
Throughout the game she talks about being afraid of being alone and by the end of the game/show she's found someone to have a future with. That she's willing to give that up at a moment's notice without ever being asking, yeah I pickYou also have a character in Ellie who is willing to sacrifice her life already.
Once they showed their hand want in willing to kill a teen without informed consent they did become the villains to me as well as cast doubt on distributing the vaccine fairly if they ever developed one.Now if you're talking about from a realistic/logical standpoint, then this scenario would be way more unlikely unless they were forced to do it. This would go against the narrative of the story because the Fireflies aren't seen as bad guys.
If Marlene and Joel knew what Ellie what have wanted to do, then why didn't Marlene wait? A reasonable explanation is that Marlene knew, killing her while she was unconscious would make things easier for her.Nah, in the TV show Ellie is conscious but Marlene still choose not to inform her. It's ultimately still Ellie's choice to make but the Fireflies took it away from her first.
You corrected yourself after I asked you to quote the notes. You put your faith in other people's interpretation without reading it yourself. This is what most people do when it comes to this story.And I've corrected myself by limiting to the recording which still prove my point that the Fireflies had made no advancements in developing a vaccine(which implies failures) which casts doubt on the Fireflies competency.
Oh, you're not going to admit when you're wrong, you're just going to find a way to justify your statement.Somehow you seem to think being wrong on a detail that I'd have to admit being wrong about everything else.
Neither does the being immune because you were born shortly after the mother got infected but the show included it so it has to deal with additional issues. The Fireflies don't concern themselves with getting informed consent so why wouldn't they perform experiments on a pregnant women under false pretences for their agenda?
Do you not realize Jerry was running tests? Don't remember the photos and records he made at the hospital documenting his progress?Makes even less sense to decide that the best action to take is to kill your only living specimen after just hours and not do all kinds of tests first.
It's already been confirmed what she would have wanted to do.Throughout the game she talks about being afraid of being alone and by the end of the game/show she's found someone to have a future with. That she's willing to give that up at a moment's notice without ever being asking, yeah I pick
Once they showed their hand want in willing to kill a teen without informed consent they did become the villains to me as well as cast doubt on distributing the vaccine fairly if they ever developed one.
Nah, unless it came from Ellie's mouth in that period, there's room for doubt and when there's any doubt, you don't go something irreversible like killing. In your worldview people are allowed to take the life of others without asking when they believe it's what the other would've wanted and that's horrible.If Marlene and Joel knew what Ellie what have wanted to do, then why didn't Marlene wait? A reasonable explanation is that Marlene knew, killing her while she was unconscious would make things easier for her.
Both Joel and Marlene knew what Ellie wanted. There's no denying this.
And it didn't weaken my points about the competency of the Fireflies.You corrected yourself after I asked you to quote the notes. You put your faith in other people's interpretation without reading it yourself. This is what most people do when it comes to this story.
I'll gladly admit I'm wrong in light of important new details that I didn't know of, so far the corrections I made don't change my overall points.Oh, you're not going to admit when you're wrong, you're just going to find a way to justify your statement.
Note quite, Marlene hints at that the others left her no choice but to approve the surgery.Marlene asked Joel to bring her to fireflies so they can transport her to the hospital. This is before she found out that making a vaccine would kill her. Marlene thought this was their best chance to make a cure, and the fireflies wouldn't do this unless Marlene gave them permission to do it.
The others wanted to kill Joel but Marlene intervened, so it's not strange I don't think of the Fireflies as a general force for good in the world.You're putting the entire group in a bucket and that's not going to work. There's no proof that they would act this way when it comes to their nature.
How many tests could he have done in a couple of hours realistically? To come to the conclusion to kill their only living specimen so soon is not confidence inspiring.Do you not realize Jerry was running tests? Don't remember the photos and records he made at the hospital documenting his progress?
It's confirmed what she wanted to happen in a scenario she was never in, years after the fact with a lot of built up bitterness and resentment. I don't see how that proves what TLOU1 Ellie would've wanted to happen.It's already been confirmed what she would have wanted to do.
Nop, Joel and Marlene might believe they know what Ellie wants but without confirming in the moment there's room for doubt. Joel and Marlene have different stakes whether Ellie lives or dies that might be clouding their judgement, only Ellie could've cleared it up back then.Anyone watching the ending of TLOu 1 should know that Joelw as upset at Ellie. For someone who claims they made the hospital look cleaner to give weight to the Firefly's actions should know that the dialog between Joel and Marlene was to tel the audience that they both knew what Ellie would have wanted.
Not to me, she finally wasn't "alone" anymore and making a big contribution to helping cure the world is also important for her. Those 2 things become at odds at some point in the story and to just assume one trumps the other I find doubtful which is why Ellie should've had the final say when there was the opportunity.That means Ellie was making future plans without knowing what was going to happen, but if was given the option to sacrifice her life, then she would have done it.
Keep your expectations in check. I enjoyed my time with the series and its quite short. Absolutely worth giving a go since it's not a massive investment.Still haven't seen the series... is it worth wasting my time watching it or is it like most over-hyped crap on TV nowadays?