That goes for a lot of things, like if you sign a contract while severely impaired - it may not be legally valid.
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Rape charge dropped against USC student after evidence of consent presented
- Thread starter norm9
- Start date
That goes for a lot of things, like if you sign a contract while severely impaired - it may not be legally valid.
The problem with this is that we don't know what happened when they did get back to the dorm. Not saying this is what happened but I've known people who intended on having consensual sex and something changes, like the other person becomes overly physically aggressive and when they try to stop them, the other person keeps going. Or what if the woman passes out as soon as she lays down?
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
but he stops, and she still feels bad about it and decides to sue.
thats whats people is arguing here
benicillin
Banned
Wait are you serious?
Linkstrikesback
Member
No, that's not how the justice system works in the Americas, which are built on at least partially the tenant of "Innocent until proven guilty" from the Universal declaration of human rights.
Guilt has to be proven, not innocence. "The burden should always be on the man" implies you think they're guilty if accused and need to prove otherwise. As difficult as it may be in the situation for a woman who was raped, reversing that logic under any circumstances is not something I can stand by.
Zombie James
Banned
The person you quoted said exactly that...
I am going to guess it contradicts the drugging charges. The problem is that being truly blackout drunk/high doesn't mean you are passed out. Some blackout drunks actually function pretty well but have no recollections of anything that they do. However this probably showed enough evidence to prove willing consent was given and negated any other evidence making the case unwinnable.
It almost sounds like you're saying all men are rapist until proven otherwise.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
don't have drunk sex
ban alcohol
it is the only way
ban alcohol
it is the only way
excelsiorlef
Member
You don't understand the idea that you can say yes and then before it starts or even during change your mind?
JoJoShabadoo
Member
I hope you're a virgin because this is a pretty naive question otherwise.
Like you can invite someone to your house and then decide once they're there that you want them to leave.
Inferno313
Banned
Yes. This was my thought.
It's not complicated. Girl goes home with dude, expecting comfortable vanilla sex. Dude turns out to be really creepy or tries to force certain acts that the girl doesn't feel comfortable with. Girl says "No. This is weird. I'm going home." Just as an example.
Sure they can say it, but they wouldn't be right. It would count as a false accusation.
Vestal
Gold Member
Its not that rape is not a problem. It truly is.
Having said that, the combination of experimentation, drugs, alcohol and naivete at such a young age mix into this ticking time bomb that the next day you can't tell which side is up in these situations.
Yikes.
i get the point you're trying to make, but this seems like it flirts dangerously close with "guilty until proven innocent" logic
My take on all of this is that casual sex these days seems like its a dangerous slippery slope for a lot of reasons
Don Draper's Hat
Member
But what if they really want to jizz inside my house?
Well, err, I would hope that a judicial system in a civilised society works exactly like that. I mean, that's basic human rights stuff.
looks like she was pulling him by the hand. friendly enough
that is literally impossible to enforce. the guy is fucked no matter what.
that is literally impossible to enforce. the guy is fucked no matter what.
Psychoward
Banned
It makes no sense to you that it's possible to revoke consent once the sex has actually started? Uh
Look I'm gonna assume the video contradicted some of her claims and is enough to be evidence of reasonable doubt. Without evidence of the entire sexual act though we have no way of 100% knowing if it was or wasn't rape. Falsified rape accusations are heinous, actual rape is heinous, college administrations not doing enough to crack down on sexual assault on their campus' especially relating to Greek life and athletic organizations is heinous. This isn't a binary "you're with us or against us" type scenario.
……forgetit
Member
Be protected, get your partner to sign shit. (I'm only half joking because these false rape accusations are absolutely awful and a terrifying prospect and a terrible thing to lie about).
Wait a second, Rashida Jones? The hell?
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
I think the big concern here is drunk consent/sex and regret afterwards. I would be exceptionally safe regarding drunk consent/sex, that is just me. People get too drunk, do stupid stuff and don't completely remember everything...shit happens all the time.
Lonewulfeus
Member
A few people in this thread making the former argument. Again, it's hard to make arguments against them without sounding like an MRA asshole. Putting all women on a pedestal and absolving them of bad decision making 100% of the time doesn't help either. College campuses absolutely have problems with rape, that much is undeniable. In this case, unless more evidence comes to light i.e; he was not intoxicated, someone heard her telling him to stop, etc, then this was the right call for now.
cromofo
Member
The stat quoted is widely agreed upon. While that stat is high, I recall reading that most rapes are committed by a sub population of men (much less than 30% of men) since they are generally serial offenders. I think that's a pretty good reason to take all allegations seriously.
*May not apply to people of color.
Fine....
http://www.rrsonline.org/?page_id=944
I have heard and read differing numbers on the percentage of sexual assault in colleges, but they all agree that it is far too common. I was first startled and shocked when a lawyer told me these stats like 15 years ago and I don't think a lot has changed since then.
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say, which might be entirely my fault. I have to run so I will have to to continue this later.
I was more responding to someone who was saying how unfair some of this might be to men when it came to revoking consent then I was about the standards to convict someone of a crime.
For me I wish the problem was more well known and that more was being done to reduce the numbers. I am old but from afar it does seem like colleges are trying to make for better environments from women but I don't know how successful those attempts have been.
thehypocrite
Member
I request a written consent in the form of a text message.
HarryKS
Member
What do you consider sexual assault?
Because it can range from benign to severe.
Example: catcalling is not the same thing as rape.
HiredN00bs
Member
It's not hard, folks. No castration or dismemberment is required. If you're engaging in sexual activity with a consenting adult and they communicate that you should stop, you are legally (as well as ethically and morally) required to stop. If you don't, that is a fundamental violation and qualifies as sexual assault and/or rape.
There have been some very bizarre questions asked about this in the thread.
There have been some very bizarre questions asked about this in the thread.
Oh, yeah.
Sorry, that wasn't clear. To me the quote implies you gave consent, had sex, and revoked.
If you said no, at any point, that is still rape. That much is clear. If you're having consensual sex and want it to stop and the guy doesn't, that's difficult to prove, but its rape.
It can be difficult to prove, such as this case. But like in all criminal cases, if you can't get clear evidence, you can't convict, which seems like that happened here.
The drunk stuff can also be cloudy. We were taught drunk people can't give consent. But obviously its difficult to draw a line in that. What counts as drunk? .08 is not the same thing as blackout plastered, what if both parties are impaired, is it a double rape or consensual sex?
Consent is ongoing, as others have said. Someone wanting to have sex with you at first doesn't mean that they want to once things start. You should always be checking in with your partner during intercourse. A simple are you okay or does that feel good, are very easy things to do.
Also, using the courts standard of guilty or innocent doesn't mean a person didn't do it. Do people think OJ isn't a killer because he was found innocent? Or Police innocent when we watch them kill minorities with impunity? Come on now.
I don't know what happened during this case but, a video of someone being into someone isn't some ironclad consent contract. And I'm sure things like this are used to discredit victims of rape in a lot of cases.
Also, using the courts standard of guilty or innocent doesn't mean a person didn't do it. Do people think OJ isn't a killer because he was found innocent? Or Police innocent when we watch them kill minorities with impunity? Come on now.
I don't know what happened during this case but, a video of someone being into someone isn't some ironclad consent contract. And I'm sure things like this are used to discredit victims of rape in a lot of cases.
Rashida Jones and Bill Burr often appeared in Chappelle's Show as actors in his skits.
Psychoward
Banned
That's sexual harassment and not assault.
It's kind of sad that some people on a forum of mostly adults needs to be taught the basics of consent and sexual assault. I mean christ.
……forgetit
Member
I never noticed and I've seen that skit tons of times lol.
nobody is questioning that, holy shit. people are asking if the man stops and the girl still feels bad and decides to sue for rape
excelsiorlef
Member
Catcalling would be under sexual harassment stats not sexual assault.
Sunster
Member
I wouldn't say women get absolved, like ever. Going through the process of accusing someone to trial is wildly difficult and traumatic. They are labeled as liars, sluts, and worse along the way. Then the rapist is rarely prosecuted. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/17/college-rape-prosecutors-press-charges_n_5500432.htmlThis is why false accusations are very rare
You're leaving out the regret claims though. When people wake up the next day, realize they gave consent while intoxicated and would not have done so otherwise, then claim they were a victim of sexual assault.
The "after the fact" claims are where things get extremely tricky.
This is absolutely true, but so far the evidence puts her claims in doubt. If she's claiming she did not consent mid-coitus, then it's just her word against his. You can't convict the guy on her word alone.
Anton Sugar
Member
I was agreeing/comiserating with them.
No one is outright disagreeing, there just seems to be alot of confusion/ignorance over when a sexual act can become rape, and it's pretty simple.
It's also important to note that she could have enthusiastically consented to intercourse but did not consent to the foreign object. That's rape, if he still used the object.
Right--I think it's *fairly* obvious that this is not rape and is a piece of shit human being using a false accusation.
The only point where "after" is acceptable or legitimate is if it's determined that consent could not be legally given (in the case of intoxication) and the victim wants to press charges.
Gentleman Jack
Member
This is extremely unlikely to happen. Maybe relax a little bit.
Jesus christ. Benign sexual assault?
Also, catcalling is sexual harassment not sexual assault.
How do people not understand these things?