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[Chaos2Frozen]

I'm thinking a signed document perhaps?

One for before sex and one for after. Date and timestamp.

That'll make the ladies feel comfortable

Edit: I was being sarcastic, but I apologise for being out of line.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I'm thinking a signed document perhaps?

One for before sex and one for after. Date and timestamp.

That'll make the ladies feel comfortable

Do you really think posts like these add anything to the conversation and are in any way made in good faith?

 

[Beardz]

Question... as a man, what can someone do to fight a false rape accusation?

 

[Nerazar]

None of those things happened in this thread. People said that murderers are more often male. And that false accusations are so rare that being terrified of going on one night stands is kind of silly. You have to have a seriously warped view of women to think that its common in the slightest for women to want to accuse guys of rape just for fun.

All of it happened. You may want to defend those posts by pointing out linguistic workarounds and the best possible interpretation of the posts while excluding the context, but it's all there.

But 1) Yep, if you want to get all statistic in that discussion, have fun telling people of color that murderers are statistically more often black, latino or have a migration background. The right will love to tell you that every day. That's what Trump is telling y'all.

Unless you want to go that route you should seriously stop interacting with people by telling them that since they are male, they are (more) likely to kill someone. Change or at least add some more qualifiers like "black" or "refugee" to your sentence and you know that you're on the wrong path here. Statistics will not help your argument here.

2) There are no verifiable numbers here, but even if it happens in "only" 1 of 10 cases, which is close to the number which was used here, it's 10% too often. Just one false accusation will ruin your life. Paranoia is warranted in these cases, especially in the age of Social Media.

3) Well, you would have to point our a post from me which states that it would be "common" for women to do that. It's still around those 10%, maybe even going up to 30%, because each statistic uses different definitions of rape and has a different method of asking and collecting the data... and it's still not a good thing, no matter the number.. And you should be able to say that without people crying foul for diminishing the pain caused to the victims. That is noone's intention in this thread, I hope.

Instead, we all should be even more outraged with these false cases, because they will become public and make it so much more difficult for real victims to speak out. Specifically in this case, the victims are all the other women who have to live through that horror with hardly anyone believing them.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Question... as a man, what can someone do to fight a false rape accusation?

Very little

 

[Symphonia]

Woman cannot rape a man by definition though, rape is the act of penetration (or at least it is in the UK) which is where all this stuff gets murky. You can be drunk as hell in a bar and a woman approaches you, takes you home and fucks you and, if she's drunk as hell too (even if it didn't seem like it), you raped that woman. Yes you did. Doesn't have to be a stranger. You sit at home with your wife and you both get drunk off your arses and you go upstairs and have sex, that's rape potentially. She's too drunk to consent, therefore she didn't consent, therefore you raped her. Doesn't work the other way round unless she put something up your arse.

Now all that is pretty fucked up but really it doesn't happen like that very often and the concept of being too drunk to give consent is an important one that protects vulnerable women from predatory men. But you can't have the protection without having the fucked up situations in my first paragraph and so occasionally, stuff like this case happens.

Are you kidding me? Of course a woman can fucking rape a man.

Jesus.

 

[Carcetti]

I'm thinking a signed document perhaps?

One for before sex and one for after. Date and timestamp.

That'll make the ladies feel comfortable

Just let any 'ladies' you meet know about your ideas and I'm sure your intercourse dilemmas will be solved by themselves.

 

[ApharmdX]

I watched a Laci Green video that said just that. Guys should constantly ask for consent during sex.

https://youtu.be/TD2EooMhqRI?t=1m20s

Yeah, that's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, and it's over-complicating things besides. Consent at the start, and of course after sex begins, if one person says "I don't want to continue", then you stop, period. Checking in regularly? That's excessive and not necessary under the law.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Do you really think posts like these add anything to the conversation and are in any way made in good faith?

I was being sarcastic but I apologise if it's out of line.

 

[neojubei]

Why? There's no proof that she lied, only that there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute.

If they hooked up, and midway through the sex she felt pain and told him to stop and he continued, that's still rape, but there's just no way to prove it. She'd still be a victim and you'd want to jail her?


..........


Speaking of insane posts...

so being accused of rape is not a serious matter? If i was accused of any crime especially rape it would have a toll on me, my family, maybe even my livelihood.

 

[norm9]

Question... as a man, what can someone do to fight a false rape accusation?

Neutral third party in your vicinity at all times. GoPro attached to your head. Beyond that, just try to make sure any potential partner has got their wits about, and if there's any red flag, abort mission.

 

[Khaos Kontrol]

Question... as a man, what can someone do to fight a false rape accusation?

Unfortunately, not much. Which is very scary.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. The phrase "maintaining consent" takes agency from the person who sex is happening to? Explain, please.

Take consent away firstly, we're talking about the word maintaining. You always need consent. Maintaining implies you need to keep seeking approval in order to continue. If someone kept asking me if I wanted to continue doing something id already agreed to I'd take that as them second guessing my prior decision. If I'm asked to do something else that's different. I said in a previous post if you start off vanilla and are continuing to do vanilla I don't think you have to keep checking to make sure you're still good to continue. If at some point you're told to back off back off obviously. If you want to switch to butt stuff get consent again that's a different act. That's all, maintaining literally means cause or enable to continue. I don't think that's an appropriate way to describe consent.

Another simplistic analogy would be if you went to a fast food joint and ordered something and the person taking the order asked you a few times if that's what you really wanted it would come off weird right? If you said no wait I change my mind that's your call they don't need to check to make sure you want what you already said you want.

 

[Ekai]

I wish men cared about actual rape as much as the 2-7% (and even 7% is quite high and not accurate from my understanding, leans much more on the 2% side of things) of false accusations. Claiming it's just as serious, if not more so, is insulting and reductive of the terror and the physical/emotional abuse that is rape.

 

[ApharmdX]

Question... as a man, what can someone do to fight a false rape accusation?

You're very unlikely to get hit with a false rape accusation.

One, rapes go unreported a majority of the time (60-80% at least).

Two, of reported rapes, only about 3% result in criminal charges being filed.

It's not something you should be worrying about, probably. Now that said, there's not a lot that you can do to combat a false rape accusation, but remember that the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Just evidence of sex is not enough, nor is victim testimony.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Are you kidding me? Of course a woman can fucking rape a man.

Jesus.

read on, please

 

[Lonewulfeus]

Are you kidding me? Of course a woman can fucking rape a man.

Jesus.

He's talking about a legal definition.

 

[KingV]

I wish men cared about actual rape as much as the 2-7% of false accusations. Claiming it's just as serious, if not more so, is insulting and reductive of the terror and the physical/emotional abuse that is rape.

If 2-7% of rape accusations are false, that's kind of a really high number. Potentially somewhere between 1 in 50 reported rapes to something like 1 in 14 reported rapes are false accusations? That's not actually rare at all.

 

[SkeptiMism]

Are you kidding me? Of course a woman can fucking rape a man.

Jesus.

The person was talking in legal sense there (it not being rape as a legal term in at least his country if it's not penetration), in response to a point about legality.

That said, it still comes off as incredibly nasty. Whenever you talk about legal terms in a matter as grave as this, you really should be as careful and respective as possible. We have men here who have been raped for fucks sake, so saying a woman can't rape a man in the tone that he did really comes off sounding horrible.

With good reason.

Just last week there was a drunk driver in my city, killing a person in a place in which I might've been if I had left work just a little bit earlier.

Does that mean I'm gonna be paranoid about a drunk driver possibly being in every car? No, I'm not gonna do that, because while shit happens, it's statistically still so rare that it just doesn't make any sense to be worried about it. If it happens then it happens and it's fucking shitty in that case, especially as you can't really do anything about it if you're the victim, but being paranoid about it still doesn't make any sense.

I'd bet that you being hit by a drunk driver is way, way more likely that you hooking up with a woman and then having her falsely accusing you of rape. How many hookups happen in the world each day? How many rape accusations follow from those hookups? How many of those hookups are false accusations?

A false rape accusation is a terrible thing, but I'm sorry, being paranoid about it doesn't make any sense.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

If 2-7% of rape accusations are false, that's kind of a really high number. Potentially somewhere between 1 in 50 reported rapes to something like 1 in 14 reported rapes are false accusations? That's not actually rare at all.

Reported, the vast majority of rapes go unreported so id bet the percent is far lower. Every false accusation is reported.

 

[Lamel]

Man both parties being intoxicated really muddies the waters here. Complicated situation.

 

[Ketkat]

All of it happened. You may want to defend those posts by pointing out linguistic workarounds and the best possible interpretation of the posts while excluding the context, but it's all there.

But 1) Yep, if you want to get all statistic in that discussion, have fun telling people of color that murderers are statistically more often black, latino or have a migration background. The right will love to tell you that every day. That's what Trump is telling y'all.

Unless you want to go that route you should seriously stop interacting with people by telling them that since they are male, they are (more) likely to kill someone. Change or at least add some more qualifiers like "black" or "refugee" to your sentence and you know that you're on the wrong path here. Statistics will not help your argument here.

Men ARE more likely to be the murderers. That is just a statistic. Understanding the reasons for that are what can make that gross or not. For instance, crime is more likely from people in lower income/poverty situations. As well as understanding the level that racial profiling has when it comes to arrests.

2) There are no verifiable numbers here, but even if it happens in "only" 1 of 10 cases, which is close to the number which was used here, it's 10% too often. Just one false accusation will ruin your life. Paranoia is warranted in these cases, especially in the age of Social Media.

3) Well, you would have to point our a post from me which states that it would be "common" for women to do that. It's still around those 10%, maybe even going up to 30%, because each statistic uses different definitions of rape and has a different method of asking and collecting the data... and it's still not a good thing, no matter the number.. And you should be able to say that without people crying foul for diminishing the pain caused to the victims. That is noone's intention in this thread, I hope.

There actually are numbers on this, so I'll post this again. Get out of here with that "30% of rapes are false accusations" bullshit.

A multi-site study of eight U.S. communities including 2,059 cases of sexual assault found a 7.1 percent rate of false reports (Lonsway, Archambault, & Lisak, 2009).

A study of 136 sexual assault cases in Boston from 1998-2007 found a 5.9 percent rate
of false reports (Lisak et al., 2010).

Using qualitative and quantitative analysis, researchers studied 812 reports of sexua lassault from 2000-2003 and found a 2.1 percent rate of false reports (Heenan & Murray 2006)

It certainly is nowhere near the level of being so scared of going on ANY one-night stands because you think that women will throw a false accusation at you.

Instead, we all should be even more outraged with these false cases, because they will become public and make it so much more difficult for real victims to speak out. Specifically in this case, the victims are all the other women who have to live through that horror with hardly anyone believing them.

I'm someone who has gone through this and had difficulty speaking out. Of course I don't like people who spread false accusations. But the issue with speaking out is not on people who failed to get a conviction in case. Its on the incredibly invasive process, the legal process of having to relive through the incident in front of the guy who did this you, as well as society telling me that I'm a liar/asking for it/its my fault/etc.

So let me say as someone who struggled to go through that process and couldn't, people don't just make these things up out of nowhere. The level of stigma is there for both sides and isn't done for fun/regret. Is it possible she made this all up? Sure. But what happened in this case is that there wasn't enough evidence to go forward, not that she was called a liar that made this all up. The reason people keep bringing up maintaining consent is because she can invite this guy into her dorm, sign him in, and then say she doesn't want to have sex. That would still be sexual assault/rape despite all the evidence in the trial that couldn't lead to further charges.

The people that are attacking her in this thread are part of the group that makes it hard to come forward about this.

 

[Ekai]

If 2-7% of rape accusations are false, that's kind of a really high number. Potentially somewhere between 1 in 50 reported rapes to something like 1 in 14 reported rapes are false accusations? That's not actually rare at all.

Reported, the vast majority of rapes go unreported so id bet the percent is far lower. Every false accusation is reported.

What Lonewulfeus said and my edit.

It's rare as all get out and I wish men cared as much about actual rape and the pain it causes than acting like false rape accusations are running rampant. If you're that scared of a false rape accusation, especially given how damn rare it even is, I have to ask why you have this fear in the first place. Why are you scared of something that rarely happens and want to make the pain of rape on equal level with something extremely rare?

 

[KingV]

Speaking of insane posts...

I'm sure the dude that loses his job, gets kicked out of school, or loses custody of his kids because of a false rape accusation is saying "well, at least I didn't get raped!"

Both of these things are very, very bad and can unfairly ruin your life.

 

[Zoe]

Reported, the vast majority of rapes go unreported so id bet the percent is far lower. Every false accusation is reported.

A false accusation can happen without it ever being reported to the police.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Instead, we all should be even more outraged with these false cases, because they will become public and make it so much more difficult for real victims to speak out. Specifically in this case, the victims are all the other women who have to live through that horror with hardly anyone believing them.

This is not a "false case"

It's a case without enough evidence for a trial.

 

[neojubei]

I wish men cared about actual rape as much as the 2-7% (and even 7% is quite high and not accurate from my understanding, leans much more on the 2% side of things) of false accusations. Claiming it's just as serious, if not more so, is insulting and reductive of the terror and the physical/emotional abuse that is rape.

if that is what you think then least for me you are very wrong. I believe rape, sexual abuse, molestation, etc are very serious things.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

A false accusation can happen without it ever being reported to the police.

But why would someone go through the scrutiny of making an accusation but not go to the police? As soon as you say I've been raped people will judge you whether it happened or not. The person making the accusation gets as much shit piled on them as the person being accused so it just seems like a very unrealistic scenario.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

if that is what you think then least for me you are very wrong. I believe rape, sexual abuse, molestation, etc are very serious things.

Please reread, they are saying that being raped is far more traumatizing than being falsely accused of rape.

 

[Ekai]

But why would someone go through the scrutiny of making an accusation but not go to the police? As soon as you say I've been raped people will judge you whether it happened or not. The person making the accusation gets as much shit piled on them as the person being accused so it just seems like a very unrealistic scenario.

E'yup. It comes across like some people don't understand the stigma rape victims go through even trying to report this stuff.

 

[GeordieMark]

What Lonewulfeus said and my edit.

It's rare as all get out and I wish men cared as much about actual rape and the pain it causes than acting like false rape accusations are running rampant. If you're that scared of a false rape accusation, especially given how damn rare it even is, I have to ask why you have this fear in the first place. Why are you scared of something that rarely happens and want to make the pain of rape on equal level with something extremely rare?

Why do you assume people can only care about one or the other, but not both? This is a thread about what seems to be a false rape accusation which is why people are discussing the topic. There's nothing to suggest anyone here doesn't care about rape.

 

[Zoe]

But why would someone go through the scrutiny of making an accusation but not go to the police? As soon as you say I've been raped people will judge you whether it happened or not. The person making the accusation gets as much shit piled on them as the person being accused so it just seems like a very unrealistic scenario.

Vindictive people aren't always the most rational thinkers.

 

[Tawpgun]

Regarding the false accusation argument

1. Yes it's not as widespread as MRA's and whatnot would have you believe

2. That doesn't mean it should be dismissed.

Only if there is clear evidence the accusation was false is the accused ever vindicated and offered an apology. Sometimes it seems the damage is done there to the accused and can't be undone.

Now, I'm not saying we should be focusing all of our efforts in eradicating false accusations. No, lets just make sure we tackle rape culture and proper consent in school.
But what some people here crying about "false accusations are so low don't worry about it" need to realize is our justice/penal system has a fundamental idea that it is better to let 10 (or whatever the quote is) guilty people walk free than to convict one innocent person. That's the whole purpose for proving guilt, not innocence. Innocent until proven guilty.

You can list off how statistically low it is but that doesn't mean when it does happen it should be ignored as an anomaly. False accusations not only belittle and degrade actual rape victims, but they give more ammo to the MRA idiots and make campuses and laws hesistant to tackle the issue.

 

[Reeks]

You will probably spend multiple days going over it with the police. And that's not even including the work to get a restraining or peace order against the accused. By the end of the whole process, a real victim may simply decide it's not worth prosecuting.

Oh yah, that's just the beginning. If it does go to court, often back-and-forths with police/court personnel goes on for a year+ ...

 

[excelsiorlef]

Why do you assume people can only care about one or the other, but not both? This is a thread about what seems to be a false rape accusation which is why people are discussing the topic. There's nothing to suggest anyone here doesn't care about rape.

There is nothing in this that says she was obviously making it up. That it's a false accusation.

This is a case of not enough evidence for trial.

 

[KingV]

Please reread, they are saying that being raped is far more traumatizing than being falsely accused of rape.

This is like saying getting shot by the police and being paralyzed is not as bad as being killed.

Technically, this is true, but it hardly matters. Both are terrible.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Something probably did go down, but nobody will know so...

I would rather let possible guilty people walk free than convict someone who may be innocent. Toss-up stuff like this it is best to just not charge them.

Also I would rather die than be raped, and I'm a dude.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

This is like saying getting shot by the police and being paralyzed is not as bad as being killed.

Technically, this is true, but it hardly matters. Both are terrible.

Eh no it's really not like at all.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

E'yup. It comes across like some people don't understand the stigma rape victims go through even trying to report this stuff.

Hence why most male victims of rape never come forward.

 

[Ekai]

Hence why most male victims of rape never come forward.

Also very true. And it's a damn shame that there is such a stigma about it.

Please reread, they are saying that being raped is far more traumatizing than being falsely accused of rape.

^

 

[neojubei]

Please reread, they are saying that being raped is far more traumatizing than being falsely accused of rape.

Like heck i dont know. I had a friend (male) that was raped but never said anything because he didn't want people to know he is gay. However if an officer comes to my house to arrest me for a crime i did not commit its also a damaging thing. Not to the degree of rape but it is not a walk in the park either.

 

[BunnyBear]

One of the reasons I didn't engage in casual sex as a youth....only with long term relationships. Shit can turn in an instant.

Yeah that's my excuse too...

...

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Unfortunately, not much. Which is very scary.

Very scary, no it isn't. I have never once in my life worried about even the potential of a woman I have slept with making a false accusation. I would be willing to bet the same is true for damn near everyone in this thread. Outside of threads like this I bet men don't even think about it. If you do worry about those things you might want to think why that is the case.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

Like heck i dont know. I had a friend (male) that was raped but never said anything because he didn't want people to know he is gay. However if an officer comes to my house to arrest me for a crime i did not commit its also a damaging thing. Not to the degree of rape but it is not a walk in the park either.

My bad, I read your response as you saying being falsely accused was worse than being raped. If that wasn't your intention or I misread it that's on me.

 

[MogCakes]

Something probably did go down, but nobody will know so...

I would rather let possible guilty people walk free than convict someone who may be innocent. Toss-up stuff like this it is best to just not charge them.

Also I would rather die than be raped, and I'm a dude.

I think the argument is over consent/severity of false accusation of vs. rape victim, amount of focus on false rape accusations vs. rape statistics and reporting, rather than the actual topic itself. And some stuff about the legal definition of rape in the UK. It started from people assuming the girl is a liar and to be tried for false rape accusation.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

I think the argument is over consent/severity of false accusation of vs. rape victim, amount of focus on false rape accusations vs. rape statistics and reporting, rather than the actual topic itself. And some stuff about the legal definition of rape in the UK. It started from people assuming the girl is a liar and to be tried for false rape accusation.

I lost track of the argument at a certain point.

Everybody should have sex for the sole purpose of procreation. Carnal pleasures are for animals.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Yeah that's my excuse too...

...

Well I have a friend who was charged with rape shortly after him and his gf of 3 years broke up. Fortunately she eventually dropped the case. She didn't handle the breakup very well

 

[KingV]

Like heck i dont know. I had a friend (male) that was raped but never said anything because he didn't want people to know he is gay. However if an officer comes to my house to arrest me for a crime i did not commit its also a damaging thing. Not to the degree of rape but it is not a walk in the park either.

I feel like people are unfairly dismissing the falsely accused. It's a pretty small consolation if you've done nothing wrong, and are possibly facing jail time, hiring a lawyer, etc over a false accusation.

The justice system being what it is, im sure of these are pleading down, doing time, and getting put on a sex offenders registry to avoid doing even more time?

This could be absolutely devastating emotionally and financially.

 

[Reeks]

Please reread, they are saying that being raped is far more traumatizing than being falsely accused of rape.

And importantly, far more common.

 

[Z O N E]

Woman cannot rape a man by definition though, rape is the act of penetration (or at least it is in the UK) which is where all this stuff gets murky. You can be drunk as hell in a bar and a woman approaches you, takes you home and fucks you and, if she's drunk as hell too (even if it didn't seem like it), you raped that woman. Yes you did. Doesn't have to be a stranger. You sit at home with your wife and you both get drunk off your arses and you go upstairs and have sex, that's rape potentially. She's too drunk to consent, therefore she didn't consent, therefore you raped her. Doesn't work the other way round unless she put something up your arse.

Now all that is pretty fucked up but really it doesn't happen like that very often and the concept of being too drunk to give consent is an important one that protects vulnerable women from predatory men. But you can't have the protection without having the fucked up situations in my first paragraph and so occasionally, stuff like this case happens.

Women CAN rape a man...