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Reading the bible (more fun than it sounds)
- Thread starter Zenith
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speculawyer
Member
I figure GAF would love the Manga Bible.
afternoon delight
Member
Shit's INTENSE! I was all about those camels and goat pieces and that Kurosawa flick.
Maybe I should read this again.
speculawyer
Member
Jeez. That is torture. At least that isn't as bad as the Muslims that seem to think memorizing the Koran is a useful exercise. What an utter waste of time.besada said:
Atramental
Banned
And that's where Lilith comes into play.mantidor said:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith?wasRedirected=true
Zenith said:
Actually, it wasn't always arid. Large parts of that area, especially the Fertile Crescent, is very productive land and was even more productive and lush earlier. Overproduction and erosion eventually turned much of it into desert, but it was fertile enough for a long time to basically allow for the rise of civilization. Read "Guns, Germs and Steel" for more. Sorry for the derail.
electroshockwave
Member
Foxy Fox 39 said:
I was mainly addressing God's sarcasm. I thought it was pretty funny.
"Where does the light come from, and where does the darkness go? Can you take each to its home? Do you know how to get there? But of course you know all this! For you were born before it was all created, and you are so very experienced!"
But the part you indicated with your link was Job 41 about the Leviathan. The sarcasm you're talking about was in Job 38.
Also, WTF?:
grumble said:
This is a pretty disingenuous post. I'm not arguing for the veracity of the bible's stories at all, but they were likely regional myths shared cross-culturally, not "coming from" ancient empires necessarily.
Zenith said:
Looking at verb forms, addresses, etc, linguists can ascertain the order in which the books were actually written. Ezekiel is by far the oldest, genesis is much newer, etc. It's really interesting, I wish I had a link to something about it.
mantidor said:
also noticed. What it appears to be (in the NLT version at least) is a short summary of the Earth's creation ("made man & woman") followed by a more indepth version ("made man from dust and woman from man"). There are corresponding summaries + in-depth stuff for the other days as well.
Isaac just died. That entire Abraham bit, with all the treaties sealed by exchanges of livestock, the obsession with lineage, the moving around, the way even the spiritual stuff focuses on farming and agriculture; it's very clearly a documentation of a primitive tribal society.
mclaren777
Member
All translations of the Bible use the original aramaic and greek texts. It's a common misconception that modern translations are based on previous versions (NIV came from KJ, which came from latin versions, etc).Zenith said:
thomaser said:
The ecological collapse was actually very beneficial to the Hebrew tribes though (and later the Arab). The devastation and chronic drought led to the slow collapse of the farming societies in the area, leading to easy pickings for the nomadic herdsman Hebrews, Arabs, and later Turkic tribes. The middle east is the only area of the world where nomads invaded and "won". Everyone else, from Mongols to Goths, were eventually kicked out by the people they invaded.
The story of Cain and Abel nicely relates this conflict. The virtuous brother, Abel, raised a flock (nomadic herder like the Hebrews), while the murderous brother Cain grew wheat (a farmer like the empires in the region, not a trait of the Hebrews), is hated by God.
Buckethead
Banned
Read a version with a Greek concordance. Latin = crap.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Ezekiel 23:19 - 20 "Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."
the_log_ride
Member
John 3:16 - So liek teh Ceiling Kitteh lieks teh ppl lots and he sez 'Oh hai I givez u me only kitteh and ifs u beleeves him u wont evr diez no moar, kthxbai
Brain. Hurt.
Brain. Hurt.
On Exodus now.
In all the sermons and stories I heard God had zero personality. He simply "was". But reading this you can certainly get an idea. He's insane. And so twisted and cruel. I'm trying to think of a character analogous to him. He's not a James Bond villain. He's like a 1000 year wizened old man in a cave, whose total knowledge of the world and complete isolation has pickled his brain. You can practically hear him smacking his lips as he recites all the plans he has to make himself feared by the Egyptians.
And it's funny hearing his promises to the Israelites when we know how it turns out.
In all the sermons and stories I heard God had zero personality. He simply "was". But reading this you can certainly get an idea. He's insane. And so twisted and cruel. I'm trying to think of a character analogous to him. He's not a James Bond villain. He's like a 1000 year wizened old man in a cave, whose total knowledge of the world and complete isolation has pickled his brain. You can practically hear him smacking his lips as he recites all the plans he has to make himself feared by the Egyptians.
And it's funny hearing his promises to the Israelites when we know how it turns out.
Dude Abides
Banned
Zenith said:
You might want to check out this book, which explores those themes.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0679743685/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Inferno313
Banned
mantidor said:
Just re-read that part, myself. I'm pretty sure Chapter 2 is supposed to take place during Chapter 1. Chapter 1 gives the basics of how everything happened, and then chapter 2 goes back in depth on the creation of man and woman. I don't think that is really a contradiction.
anyone who wishes to join me, you can find a transcript of the NLT version here
http://nlt.scripturetext.com/
seems slightly different to the one I have.
It seems to be the standard structure of it. Like this local King has totally lost his rag at Abraham because Abe let him sleep with his wife, and I'm thinking "Chill out, God ain't done anything yet" and then at the end of the story it says
P.S. Abraham and his wife were half-siblings, so when he told people "she's my sister" so they wouldn't kill him so they could make off with her, he was technically telling the truth.
And with Moses & co in the desert it makes a passing reference to Mt Sinai and eating mana for 40 years in the desert, then it goes back and documents all the events in detail. It even describes some of God's physical forms. Ascribes rather bizarre properties to his smoke monster form:
Interesting to see the creation of a hierarchical government, and the creation of nuanced laws that actually incorporate the concepts of manslaughter, GBH, gross negligence, insurance, etc. But it turns out God's totally ok with slavery. A good proportion of the commandments he gives Moses deal with it:
It's really hard to view the people as "fully human" for lack of a better phrase. They come across as so primitive it's almost a shock when you read cases of them thinking and reasoning. I keep treating them like toddlers.
God's not infallible either. At one point Moses has to convince him his rash decision to wipe out the entire Jewish race would be a mistake. But Moses uses this as a substitute:
Funnily enough that's all the detail they give on that little escapade.
God's bizarrely contradictory as well. At one point he says "God of compassion and mercy! I am slow to anger and filled with unfailing love and faithfulness." despite mass evidence to the contrary.
In Genesis Abraham has an intresting conversation about collective punishment and God assures him that even if only 10 people in Sodom had potential to be good he would spare the entire city for their sake, which is exactly the sort of ahead-of-its-time enlightenment you would expect from God. Then you see things like the mass slaughters in Egypt and stuff like:
thanks, bitch.
there was this doozy as well:
I can't help but think God continuously making Pharaoh do the opposite of what he wanted was a cover by the authors to explain the plothole of why Pharaoh seemed to be beyond "God's" reach.
Interesting to note that it says the Pharaoh's magicians successfully duplicated God's first 3 miracles using their own magic so the threat wasn't taken seriously.
God lays out detailed instructions, materials and measurements for the perfect temple that enables communication with him. You need the ark of the convenant as the centrepiece though.
http://nlt.scripturetext.com/
seems slightly different to the one I have.
mantidor said:
It seems to be the standard structure of it. Like this local King has totally lost his rag at Abraham because Abe let him sleep with his wife, and I'm thinking "Chill out, God ain't done anything yet" and then at the end of the story it says
P.S. Abraham and his wife were half-siblings, so when he told people "she's my sister" so they wouldn't kill him so they could make off with her, he was technically telling the truth.
And with Moses & co in the desert it makes a passing reference to Mt Sinai and eating mana for 40 years in the desert, then it goes back and documents all the events in detail. It even describes some of God's physical forms. Ascribes rather bizarre properties to his smoke monster form:
Interesting to see the creation of a hierarchical government, and the creation of nuanced laws that actually incorporate the concepts of manslaughter, GBH, gross negligence, insurance, etc. But it turns out God's totally ok with slavery. A good proportion of the commandments he gives Moses deal with it:
It's really hard to view the people as "fully human" for lack of a better phrase. They come across as so primitive it's almost a shock when you read cases of them thinking and reasoning. I keep treating them like toddlers.
God's not infallible either. At one point Moses has to convince him his rash decision to wipe out the entire Jewish race would be a mistake. But Moses uses this as a substitute:
Funnily enough that's all the detail they give on that little escapade.
God's bizarrely contradictory as well. At one point he says "God of compassion and mercy! I am slow to anger and filled with unfailing love and faithfulness." despite mass evidence to the contrary.
In Genesis Abraham has an intresting conversation about collective punishment and God assures him that even if only 10 people in Sodom had potential to be good he would spare the entire city for their sake, which is exactly the sort of ahead-of-its-time enlightenment you would expect from God. Then you see things like the mass slaughters in Egypt and stuff like:
thanks, bitch.
there was this doozy as well:
I can't help but think God continuously making Pharaoh do the opposite of what he wanted was a cover by the authors to explain the plothole of why Pharaoh seemed to be beyond "God's" reach.
Interesting to note that it says the Pharaoh's magicians successfully duplicated God's first 3 miracles using their own magic so the threat wasn't taken seriously.
God lays out detailed instructions, materials and measurements for the perfect temple that enables communication with him. You need the ark of the convenant as the centrepiece though.
natethegreat409
Member
My bible is the NLT version. I enjoy reading it more than any other bible I have picked up.
Count Dookkake
Member
R Crumb's Book of Genesis is pretty amazing.
Haven't check out Basil Wolverton's Bible yet, but it looks nice.
Haven't check out Basil Wolverton's Bible yet, but it looks nice.
natethegreat409
Member
If anyone ever tells you the Bible is a clean book, then they clearly have never read the Bible. :lolHimuro said:
Chaplain
Member
ILikeFeet said:
The book of Revelation explains that the serpent is Satan:
This great dragonthe ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole worldwas thrown down to the earth with all his angels.
He seized the dragonthat old serpent, who is the devil, Satanand bound him in chains for a thousand years.
Chaplain
Member
Himuro said:
Interesting that you think Jesus (yes, He is the same God from the Old Testament) to be an awful person/being/thing with an inferiority complex. Do you think when Jesus died on the cross he did that for selfish awful reasons?
Himuro said:
There are many god's that people follow because they want a god made after their own image.
I tried reading it cover-to-cover once, but never made it out of the books of Moses. I've read most of it nonconsecutively, though.
Even when the Mormons talk about modern-day miracles and revelation, they really mean 150 years ago.
That part is actually an interesting case study in how marriage forms have changed over the years, and how a man being unfaithful to his obligations as a step-husband somehow got construed into a condemnation on masturbation. Dude was pulling out so he wouldn't have kids in his brother's name.lawblob said:
You know, fundamentalists frequently fail to develop rudimentary skills in literary interpretation, on account of requiring everything be taken literally. They can read it, but will they understand what they're reading?Fio said:
It's always amusing to me how God is only crazy-interventionalist in the past tense. We've done far more than build 10-story mounds of dirt, hell, we've built actual machines that escape Earth's gravity, and he just doesn't care anymore.Zenith said:
Even when the Mormons talk about modern-day miracles and revelation, they really mean 150 years ago.
People have been commenting on how crazy the OT God was. I've thought about this and wondered whether Satan was perhaps impersonating God on some or many of these occasions.
There's some crazy stuff in 1 Chronicles 21:1 where Satan tells David to take a census. In the 2 Samuel 24:13 version, its now God who incites David to do this.
The concept of the demiurge is pretty interesting too and may relate to this. Its basically the idea that the creator isn't really all powerful or good, but doesn't realize that he's not really the ultimate power, but just a very powerful angel of sorts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge
There's some crazy stuff in 1 Chronicles 21:1 where Satan tells David to take a census. In the 2 Samuel 24:13 version, its now God who incites David to do this.
The concept of the demiurge is pretty interesting too and may relate to this. Its basically the idea that the creator isn't really all powerful or good, but doesn't realize that he's not really the ultimate power, but just a very powerful angel of sorts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge
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