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[Chaplain]

Well, even as a child I never understood the trinity. "Jesus is God? I thought he was the son of God." This was never adequately explained and I never "got" it.

No one can fully understand the trinity. Since we are outside of time, it is impossible to comprehend the infinite. What we do have are verses that explain the trinity with human words:

"For in Him (Christ) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily"

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh"

"Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen."

"For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross."

 

[Tremis]

Some NT has great poetry but it's mostly boring to me.

Yeah, I can see that people would prefer the OT because its has just so much variety in it. Although, I find the prophets pretty boring. Job is crazy awesome though.

 

[Hitokage]

Some NT has great poetry but it's mostly boring to me.

It was the "In A Grove" of its time!

Pity nobody understood its true message.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Because God is like a child playing Sim City. Knocking the rape and blood bars up a notch or two on the occasion is mostly what did it for me. The God in The Bible is not someone worth worshipping or giving your life to. He is an awful person/being/thing with an inferiority complex.

Anyone who can read and has read the entire Bible likely came up with the same conclusions.

I like the God in the Qur'an a lot more.

It's technically the same God, though. OT God is an ass.

 

[dude]

Read the Book Of Judges chapters 13 to 16 (The Samson story).

Truly fucked up shit up in there.

 

[mantidor]

Some NT has great poetry but it's mostly boring to me.

You are still missing the revelations, one of the craziest/greatest book ever written.

Besides the whole angel hierarchy stuff is pretty awesome for me, and that's scattered all across the Bible.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Because God is like a child playing Sim City. Knocking the rape and blood bars up a notch or two on the occasion is mostly what did it for me. The God in The Bible is not someone worth worshipping or giving your life to. He is an awful person/being/thing with an inferiority complex.

Anyone who can read and has read the entire Bible likely came up with the same conclusions.

I like the God in the Qur'an a lot more.

That's not really fair, though. You separate the God in the Qu'ran from the God in the OT, but you don't do so for the God in the NT, despite the fact that the teachings of Christianity are based on the NT. Then, you use that as a justification for the rejection of Christianity, when it probably would be a more accurate "rejection" of Orthodox Judaism.

 

[Danielsan]

I really ought to read the (entire) bible some day.
I remember really enjoying the stories as kid when I attended a Catholic school.
Sure, even then I thought they were pure fiction, but when you read them with that in mind they are great.

I at least owe it to myself to read the The Book of Daniel.

 

[Dude Abides]

Revelations scared the shit out of me as a kid. So I've never successfully read through it all.



Because God's actions in the NT do not erase his actions in the OT. I take the book as a whole, not two entities.

One of my CCD teachers was convinced that direct deposit was a sign of the coming of the Beast.

 

[Zenith]

Interesting that you think Jesus (yes, He is the same God from the Old Testament) to be an awful person/being/thing with an inferiority complex. Do you think when Jesus died on the cross he did that for selfish awful reasons?

No, Jesus was a separate entity. His last words on the cross are a direct appeal to his father ("Father forgive them, for they know not what they do"). Why would he say that if it's God on the cross?

 

[kevm3]

One of my CCD teachers was convinced that direct deposit was a sign of the coming of the Beast.

Many believe the mark of the beast to be the implantable RFID chips they have now.

 

[Chichikov]

Don't you mean Greek?

I was talking about the Old Testament.

 

[Callo Merlose]

Ezekiel 23:19-20

 

[Mejilan]

I've been meaning to read through the Tanach one of these years. My big problem with it is that I have no interest in English interpretations and my Hebrew isn't even close to good enough to parse through Biblical Hebrew.

 

[mantidor]

This is what I always thought.

When he calls God "father" and that he's the "son of God" I have always envisioned an actual paternal relationship and that God was indeed the sire who impregnated virgin Mary with a mere whisper.

I really never had a problem with the holly trinity. Jesus is human, him being the "son" is only a way to say that God created him, we all are sons of God anyway. Jesus is like if one of us created something small to be able to have a presence lesser beings would understand, that thing we created would still be us, only in smaller form.

I'm sure there are "official" explanations from all the different christian churches, but this is the one that I was taught.

 

[squinters]

The problem is that the whole basis of Christianity is that Jesus IS God. I never understood it as a child. To me it was the equivalent of worshiping a man.

Yeah, a man who is God, was sent by the Father, performed miracles, lived a perfect life, and died on the cross to save humanity.

 

[Jinaar]

A Slate writer blogged his reading of the OT a few years ago.

http://www.slate.com/id/2141050

Almost done Leviticus. This has been a great read.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Revelations scared the shit out of me as a kid. So I've never successfully read through it all.



Because God's actions in the NT do not erase his actions in the OT. I take the book as a whole, not two entities.

Sure, he's nice and forgiving in the NT, but that just makes him look like he's bipolar.

But yet, the actions of the God in the Qu'ran are more to your liking, despite the fact that he's believed to be the same God as the one in the OT?

That's my point. You refuse to disconnect the God in the OT from the God in the NT, but you disconnect the God in the Qu'ran from the God in the OT?

 

[Chaplain]

I really never had a problem with the holly trinity. Jesus is human, him being the "son" is only a way to say that God created him, we all are sons of God anyway

Jesus was not created. The Bible says Jesus always existed and created all life.

In the beginning the Word already existed.
The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
He existed in the beginning with God.
God created everything through him,
and nothing was created except through him.
The Word gave life to everything that was created,
and his life brought light to everyone.

We are not all sons of God. We are sons of Adam and Eve. The only way to become a child of God again is by faith in Christ:

He came into the very world he created, but the world didn’t recognize him. He came to his own people, and even they rejected him. But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God.

Jesus is like if one of us created something small to be able to have a presence lesser beings would understand, that thing we created would still be us, only in smaller form..

This is not taught anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Chaplain]

The problem is that the whole basis of Christianity is that Jesus IS God. I never understood it as a child. To me it was the equivalent of worshiping a man.

Here is a good explination on the subject:

The Trinity
God is three persons
Each person is divine
There is only one God.

Many theologians admit that the term "person" is not a perfect word to describe the three individual aspects/foci found in God. When we normally use the word person, we understand it to mean physical individuals who exist as separate beings from other individuals. But in God there are not three entities, nor three beings. God is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence. God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons.

Each of the three persons is completely divine in nature though each is not the totality of the Godhead.
Each of the three persons is not the other two persons.
Each of the three persons is related to the other two, but are distinct from them.

 

[Chaplain]

It's technically the same God, though. OT God is an ass.

Are you sure? Have you looked at the differences between each religion?

 

[Hitokage]

Have you looked at the differences between the Old Testament and the New Testament? It went from polytheistic to monotheistic!

 

[Chaplain]

Have you looked at the differences between the Old Testament and the New Testament? It went from polytheistic to monotheistic!

Lets go right to the beginning of the book:

"Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us." Gen 1:26

The trinity is in the very first chapter of the Bible.

 

[mantidor]

This is not taught anywhere in the Bible.

As I said, thats what I was taught in religion classes. The Bible doesn't mention anything about the trinity explicity. The Bible itself is such a broken book, particulary for learning and teaching, that most of its "teachings" are just interpretations anyway.

 

[Hitokage]

Lets go right to the beginning of the book:

"Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us." Gen 1:26

The trinity is in the very first chapter of the Bible.

Only when looking for a Christian narrative. I bet the Jews would beg to differ.

 

[Chaplain]

But the God in the Qur'an acts totally different. What is so hard to understand? The God in the Qur'an is likable. The God in the Bible isn't.

I see it differently.

The God of the Bible became like one of us to pay a fine would could never pay.

The god of the Quran did not become like one of us or die in our place for our sins.

 

[Chaplain]

Only when looking for a Christian narrative. I bet the Jews would beg to differ.

The Jews differ because God blinded them because of their rejection of Jesus. But the OT does mention God's Son in the Psalms.

"Now then, you kings, act wisely!
Be warned, you rulers of the earth!
Serve the Lord with reverent fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
Submit to God’s royal son, or he will become angry,
and you will be destroyed in the midst of all your activities—
for his anger flares up in an instant.
But what joy for all who take refuge in him!"

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Also, fuck God for erasing Eden and turning the Middle East into the arid lands it is today (has always been).

Actually, it was the Mongols who did that.

 

[Hitokage]

The Jews differ because God blinded them because of their rejection of Jesus.

How convenient, so basically they don't matter and Christians have a monopoly on the full bible.

...and yet Muslims can't have any of it.

 

[Chaplain]

How convenient.

It was prophesied hundreds of years before Christ was born. But it also says that the Jews will believe again when Christ returns.

 

[Hitokage]

It was prophesied hundreds of years before Christ was born. But it also says that the Jews will believe again when Christ returns.

The New Testament may say as much, but not the Old Testament.

 

[Dude Abides]

I see it differently.

The God of the Bible became like one of us to pay a fine would could never pay.

The god of the Quran did not become like one of us or die in our place for our sins.

To whom was the fine owed?

 

[Chaplain]

I understand all of this. But it just reeks of polytheism to me.

I agree. But there are certain things that cannot be understand like life without time. We will never know on this side of life what eternity will be like.

God does not expect everyone to fully understand everything. He just wants us to trust what He says and have a relationship with Him.

 

[Chaplain]

To whom was the fine owed?

The Bible says that the person who sins will die and that their soul is required for paying for their sins. The Bible also says that we are under God's wrath for our rebellion. Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins and that we would have peace with God because of what He did.

 

[Dude Abides]

The Bible says that the person who sins will die and that their soul is required for paying for their sins. The Bible also says that we are under God's wrath for our rebellion. Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins and that we would have peace with God because of what He did.

That does not really answer the question. Are you saying the fine was owed to God?

 

[duckroll]

The Jews differ because God blinded them because of their rejection of Jesus. But the OT does mention God's Son in the Psalms.

"Now then, you kings, act wisely!
Be warned, you rulers of the earth!
Serve the Lord with reverent fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
Submit to God’s royal son, or he will become angry,
and you will be destroyed in the midst of all your activities—
for his anger flares up in an instant.
But what joy for all who take refuge in him!"

That doesn't sound like Jesus to me! :lol

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Quite a temper on Jesus there. :lol

 

[Hitokage]

God created Adam so that people may exist. Adam needed to sin for it to actually happen. God condemns humanity for Adam's sin, but then later chooses to use another persona to lift his own fine. ???. Profit.

 

[Chaplain]

That does not really answer the question. Are you saying the fine was owed to God?

Each person who lives is held accountable for their actions. The wrongs we all commit the Bible calls sin. Every person sins daily. Since God is the creator, and all life belongs to Him, we are going to stand before Him for how we lived. We can either stand before God and try to defend ourselves even though we are guilty or, we can have Jesus stand in our place and have Him pay for our mistakes with his life and death on the cross.

Did that make sense?

 

[Chaplain]

That doesn't sound like Jesus to me! :lol

I think many people do not read the Bible because the Bible says very clearly that when Jesus comes back He kills many people. The following verses describes Jesus return:

Then I saw heaven opened, and a white horse was standing there. Its rider was named Faithful and True, for he judges fairly and wages a righteous war. His eyes were like flames of fire, and on his head were many crowns. A name was written on him that no one understood except himself. He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God. The armies of heaven, dressed in the finest of pure white linen, followed him on white horses. From his mouth came a sharp sword to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He will release the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty, like juice flowing from a winepress. On his robe at his thigh was written this title: King of all kings and Lord of all lords.

Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, shouting to the vultures flying high in the sky: “Come! Gather together for the great banquet God has prepared. Come and eat the flesh of kings, generals, and strong warriors; of horses and their riders; and of all humanity, both free and slave, small and great.”

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the world and their armies gathered together to fight against the one sitting on the horse and his army. And the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who did mighty miracles on behalf of the beast—miracles that deceived all who had accepted the mark of the beast and who worshiped his statue. Both the beast and his false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. Their entire army was killed by the sharp sword that came from the mouth of the one riding the white horse. And the vultures all gorged themselves on the dead bodies.

 

[Dude Abides]

Each person who lives is held accountable for their actions. The wrongs we all commit the Bible calls sin. Every person sins daily. Since God is the creator, and all life belongs to Him, we are going to stand before Him for how we lived. We can either stand before God and try to defend ourselves even though we are guilty or, we can have Jesus stand in our place and have Him pay for our mistakes with his life and death on the cross.

Did that make sense?

Kind of. It sounds like the debt is owed to God. But then why would God himself act as surety (through Jesus, who is also God) on a debt that was owed to him? Why didn't he just forgive the debt and skip all the fuss?

 

[Chaplain]

God created Adam so that people may exist. Adam needed to sin for it to actually happen. God condemns humanity for Adam's sin, but then later chooses to use another persona to lift his own fine. ???. Profit.

God created Adam so that He could have a loving relationship with mankind.

God knew without choice man would be nothing more than a robot. So God put a tree in the Garden to see if man would choose Him or choose sin.

God condemns each man for the sins they commit by their own freewill. God choose to become a man, be rejected by humanity and die a criminals death to show how much he loves each person. God now offers each person the choice (for the second time now) to have a relationship with him if the choose to do so.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

God created Adam so that people may exist. Adam needed to sin for it to actually happen. God condemns humanity for Adam's sin, but then later chooses to use another persona to lift his own fine. ???. Profit.

?

I'm pretty certain there was plenty of fuckin' going on in the Garden of Eden.

 

[Chaplain]

Kind of. It sounds like the debt is owed to God. But then why would God himself act as surety (through Jesus, who is also God) on a debt that was owed to him? Why didn't he just forgive the debt and skip all the fuss?

Because God made certain rules and He could not break His own rules. God knew sin had infected all mankind and had to fix our mistake by dying on the cross to break the power of sin & death.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

The ecological collapse was actually very beneficial to the Hebrew tribes though (and later the Arab). The devastation and chronic drought led to the slow collapse of the farming societies in the area, leading to easy pickings for the nomadic herdsman Hebrews, Arabs, and later Turkic tribes. The middle east is the only area of the world where nomads invaded and "won". Everyone else, from Mongols to Goths, were eventually kicked out by the people they invaded.

Hmm? Turkey, Bulgaria, and Hungary beg to differ, just off the top of my head.

 

[soul creator]

yo dawg, I heard you like sinning, so I created beings who sinned and then another being incapable of sin who is actually myself and is the only person who could pay myself via killing myself for the sins of beings I created myself

 

[GhaleonQ]

This topic is the worst. If you're going to maintain a 2nd grade Sunday School attendee's depth of understanding, at least bring the jokes.

That doesn't sound like Jesus to me! :lol

Perhaps because it's not about Him?

 

[SoulPlaya]

But the God in the Qur'an acts totally different. The God in the Qur'an is likable. The God in the Bible isn't. The Qur'an isn't the Bible, the Bible is one book, not two books. The Qur'an is also based around a different religion. I don't discredit the NT because God is nice in it. I'm merely saying it makes him look bipolar as a character in the NT because of actions displayed in the OT. Qur'an has no such problem as the God in that book is consistent.

What is so hard to understand?

Muslims believe that the God in the Qu'ran is the same God that appeared in the OT. The Bible is actually many books. It's a collection.

 

[Acerac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
Oh lord that link is just going to provide further problems in this topic. Oh well.

 

[Hitokage]

?

I'm pretty certain there was plenty of fuckin' going on in the Garden of Eden.

But what about babies?