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[cormack12]

Scope of argument

• Wii;
• Wii U;
• Nintendo Switch;

Regardless of software library and quality of output, it always baffles me how more people don't have more issues with the controllers. Surely I can't be an outlier? I don't have giant hands, just regular manly man hands.

I literally cannot play the switch with default joycon config or:

• : handheld mode with controllers attached. The joysticks are like laptop tits and fiddling round with the weight of the screen as well is a nightmare. I can probably suffer it for 30-45 minutes at a push before needing the pro controller type thing;
• : Detached joycons as single players are ridiculously tiny. It's like I'm trying to hold them but I can't get enough purchase to hold them securely;
• : The only way I can play comfortably is using the plastic pro grip where you slide joycons into each side and it resembles a regular pro controller or similar;

The Wii U gamepad was just awful as well. Again, they had a pro-variant which was good. Maybe it could have worked if the embedded screen was smaller, but Nintendo seem to excel at placing controls miles apart for some reason, or using massive amount of negative space. The space between D-Pad and triggers was laughable. Regular games like SF:Zero were a mess to control and shouldn't have been. You had to be right on top of the console for the second screen to work. And again, it has the weight issue for holding at time of length and the awful placement decision of the right analogue stick. However, my hands didn't go into claw clamp with the default form factor so that's a plus.

And lastly, the original Wii. I guess this is a matter of preference more than default but they were heavy (again), there were not enough buttons which led to weird combinations being pressed for multi platform games or more regular style games. Using it horizontal like a single player joycon was again uncomfortable and felt like my fingers were precariously holding a wobbly cigar. And again, it was somewhat resolved by a classic pro controller but not before failing with the classic controller first.

I think I speak for us all when I say who the fuck tests these things? Or where do the focus groups come from?

(This is without going in depth on the 3DS XL 'sticks' as well - that feel like tiddlywink counters).

 

[Virex]

Luckily on the Wii U I had the Wii U pro controller for most games I play. And I use the Switch pro controller because my Switch is docked permanently. But the Switch with the joy cons attached isn't very comfortable to hold at all.

That's why the Switch's controllers are called joy cons. Because they con you into thinking it's a joy to use them

 

[#Phonepunk#]

i like the joycons more than any other controller. it is far easier on my hands, way lighter. if i'm playing for hours i don't get a cramp because i can switch it up and use the two separate halves. all in all it's my favorite control setup.

no idea about the Vita, never played it, but then again it isn't mentioned in the OP outside of the title, so it doesn't seem that relevant.

 

[Mattyp]

They have the pro controller as their decent, and arguably actually a very good controller. The rest is hot garbage.

 

[Doom85]

Don't think they're really that bad, but regardless the Pro controller feels great so it's a moot point for me.

Also, of course you start with Wii as your argument, because as I think many would agree that the Gamecube controller was great.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I love the Wiimote and the Wiimote + nunchuck combo. Joycons are a bit too small for my hands if used akimbo. Wii U tablet was crap but Wii U pro controllers are amazing.

I feel like Japanese gaming hardware in general is made for small hands. It has been a problem for quite a while.

 

[kunonabi]

Wiimote and nunchuk is my favorite controller setup of all time. So comfortable and felxible. Wii U gamepad was great too and I'd take it over any Microsoft or Sony controller any day of the week.

 

[mcz117chief]

I play Switch exclusively in handheld mode with joycons attached with zero issues. I have had zero issues with any controller in my life honestly.

 

[Aintitcool]

Wiimote and nunchuck was god damn legend.

 

[xGreir]

No

 

[Birdo]

But the Gamecube Controller is god-tier comfy.

The Joycons are pure hand torture, though.

 

[Salvatron]

I have no real exp with wii or wii u controls, but Switch default joycons are no way as terrible's as the default vitas were. I had to get a PGP grip to make the vita somewhat more comfortable, but even then the ergonomics were terrible. The distance of the hands while the cons are attached due to the wideness of the screen makes a huge impact on comfort. If I'm not playing in portable, I'm using the pro controller while docked. I've tried using the joy cons detached and my brain feels weird.

 

[HE1NZ]

The right joycon is completely retarded and unusable except for face buttons.

 

[Ceadeus]

Joy con are cute but that's about it.

Thumbstick are not precise and they are cheap.

But anyway, i got used to it.

 

[GlassAwful]

Nope you arent alone but some people are masochists that love torturing their hands into awkward shapes while they game.

I mean every other company would get roasted alive for releasing controllers so poorly laid out but they don't have innovative features like "HD rumble!"

 

[Ailynn]

I legitimately hate using the Joy Con controllers in almost any situation. The Pro Controller is fantastic, though!

 

[Dr. Claus]

Not a fan of the Joycons, but the gamepad for Wii U, the Wiimote for Wii and Pro Controllers for all 3 were fantastic. Felt great and I use my Pro Controller over my Xbox One and PS4 controllers whenever possible.

 

[Closer]

Wiimote and nunchuk is my favorite controller setup of all time. So comfortable and felxible. Wii U gamepad was great too and I'd take it over any Microsoft or Sony controller any day of the week.

Wiimote and nunchuck was god damn legend.

These are me 100%.

 

[RockyRZ]

This is why I will wait for the Switch Lite. Absolutely hate the current one. Hopefully the smaller form factor will make it tolerable.

 

[Ballthyrm]

Innovation require taking risk.

You can do like Sony and make the same controller for 20 years.
Or you can be like Nintendo and literally invent every innovation made on video games controllers.

Sure there is a couple of misses along the way but they made some of the best controller out-there (wiiU Pro, wavebird, snes)

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

But i dont have problem with Joycons of Nintendo Switch

 

[HE1NZ]

Right joycon should have had thumbstick over buttons like the left one. You can't realistically use thumbstick to aim and press R2 to shoot. They are too far and it's uncorfortable to hold the console and use thumbstick. Also it's sometimes gets in a way when using buttons.

 

[MisterBrimstone]

They are uncomfortable, but given all the workarounds they had to make to fit a handheld and make then detachable is kinda understandable?

The drift is the worst part of all this.

 

[Dural]

NES-Square shape uncomfortable
SNES-Maybe my favorite controller ever, love it
N64-Stupid layout, uncomfortable
GC-Comfortable to hold; dpad is tiny, cstick is horrible, and triggers feel cheap
Wii-I know some like it, but I couldn't get used to the split controller
WiiU-I actually don't mind this, it's pretty comfortable
Switch-It's ok, hands get cramps after extended use. Using the joycons as individual controllers for multiplayer is horrible.

 

[Esppiral]

The GameCube controller is their best controller

 

[Chastten]

I dont particularly like or dislike the joy-cons, but the Switch pro controller is awesome so there's that. Also, the Wii U tablet was great so no problems there either.

The waggle sticks of the Wii sucked ass but again, the pro controller was great for Xenoblade Chronicles so that almost redeemed that entire console.

Wanna talk about ergonomic disasters? Take any PlayStation controller. Who the hell came up with the idea that placing the left control stick in the secondary position was a good idea? I can't for the life of me play a 3D game on a PS console. As much as I like the PS4, the controller is the reason I'll never get one.

 

[UltimaKilo]

I think that the Wiimote was very comfortable. I never spent a lot of time with the Wii U tablet, so I couldn’t judge. However, the joycons are atrocious! A Pro controller is a must with the Switch.

 

[Dontero]

Yes, Nintendo never made any comfortable pads in their life.

The worst are their handhelds. 3DS is something i legit could play a lot because how uncofortable it was. Had to buy hand grip for it to make it work like actual big pad rather than handheld.

 

[Lionel Richie]

You're wrong and should feel bad OP. While the joycons are indeed bad, every other controller for the Wii, Wii U or Switch are pretty good or downright fantastic. I think it's their handheld that have been uncomfortable to hold since the original GBA.

 

[WindomURL]

The shittiness is somehow made especially clear when trying to play DSR undocked. Intolerable.
Pro controller is butter, though.

 

[Danjin44]

I play Switch exclusively in handheld mode with joycons attached with zero issues. I have had zero issues with any controller in my life honestly.

Same, I have no issues with either my Joy-cons in handheld mode or pro controller.

 

[Orenji Neko]

Joycons in the grip were ok enough for me, but once I got a pro controller, I don’t use them anymore, even for portable. The pro is so good that it makes the joycons feel worse to me.

I appreciate the idea they are going for though.

 

[Nymphae]

I feel like Japanese gaming hardware in general is made for small hands. It has been a problem for quite a while.

It's funny that the arcade standard is the 35mm Sanwa buttons, people are starting to switch over to 24mm buttons more frequently for their own builds. I've thought about it, I used to have the Hori mini PS4 arcade stick, and I really liked how I didn't have to move my hand at all and was able to hit all of the buttons.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

It's funny that the arcade standard is the 35mm Sanwa buttons, people are starting to switch over to 24mm buttons more frequently for their own builds. I've thought about it, I used to have the Hori mini PS4 arcade stick, and I really liked how I didn't have to move my hand at all and was able to hit all of the buttons.

That's strange, but I believe it. My only gripe with that idea is you are immediately reducing the variety of buttons you have access to for your build, since 35mm is the standard. Not everything is made in 24mm.

 

[belteshazzar]

Heavily disagree. The only thing I found to be uncomfortable is playing with one joycon sideways, without any sort of attachment. Pressing those SR and SL is truly awful, but just adding that slider with the extra buttons makes its infinitely more comfortable and usable, to the point where I can comfortably play Smash or Mario Kart. I also never really liked playing with the Wiimote sideways, since the top part of the controller where the dpad is is thinner than the bottom and it didn't feel very ergonomic, at least for my hands. However, nunchuk + wiimote was amazing. I found the Wii U Gamepad to be incredibly comfortable, I have zero issues with it.

 

[Nymphae]

That's strange, but I believe it. My only gripe with that idea is you are immediately reducing the variety of buttons you have access to for your build, since 35mm is the standard. Not everything is made in 24mm.

I'm not sure I follow what you mean, when people are making their own stick from scratch, they choose 24mm button layouts more often and just use the 24mm Sanwaa buttons for every button on the stick. I think basically all stick and arcade cabinet manufacturers still use the larger 35mm layouts and buttons even though you'd think the smaller handed Japanese would prefer the smaller layout and buttons.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

I don't mind the joycons attached to the Switch or just chilling with them in each hand

Single user joycon set up is dirt; I feel horrible handing one of those to someone to play with me

Ninty has always done...interesting controller design, especially now that the lay out and such has been a bit more universal

I think the reduction in buttons they did for the Wii was trying to appeal to a broader audience

All in all, their standard controllers are crap, but they always have a variant out for the enthusiasts
Could be cheaper for the Switch Pro Controller

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I'm not sure I follow what you mean, when people are making their own stick from scratch, they choose 24mm button layouts more often and just use the 24mm Sanwaa buttons for every button on the stick. I think basically all stick and arcade cabinet manufacturers still use the larger 35mm layouts and buttons even though you'd think the smaller handed Japanese would prefer the smaller layout and buttons.

I'm saying that if you want variety, there is a wider range of 35mm buttons compared to 24mm buttons, based on my findings. I'm not saying one should go one way or the other, I was just thinking out loud as to why 35mm might still be preferable.

 

[deriks]

I don't love it, but I don't think it's terrible

 

[Ma-Yuan]

Just no. I am a big vita fan >< but they could be better I admit.

 

[Nymphae]

I'm saying that if you want variety, there is a wider range of 35mm buttons compared to 24mm buttons, based on my findings. I'm not saying one should go one way or the other, I was just thinking out loud as to why 35mm might still be preferable.

Oh yeah for sure, for variety of colour options and whatnot. But there actually is a semi decent range of colours available for 24mm buttons, but no one manufactures 24mm layouts as an option for whatever reason. I think it's just one of those things, 35mm was chosen as a standard for cabinets decades ago for whatever reason, and now the market caters to that even though people are starting to experiment with options a bit more at home.

 

[kunonabi]

You're wrong and should feel bad OP. While the joycons are indeed bad, every other controller for the Wii, Wii U or Switch are pretty good or downright fantastic. I think it's their handheld that have been uncomfortable to hold since the original GBA.

Eh, switch pro controller is one of the worst controllers Nintendo has ever put out as far as I'm concerned. Dpad sucks and it just looks and feels so cheap.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

The controllers are fine for me, ergonomically, but the portables are completely atrocious. The 3DS, for all the great games it has, is a goddamned nightmare for people with big hands.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Oh yeah for sure, for variety of colour options and whatnot. But there actually is a semi decent range of colours available for 24mm buttons, but no one manufactures 24mm layouts as an option for whatever reason. I think it's just one of those things, 35mm was chosen as a standard for cabinets decades ago for whatever reason, and now the market caters to that even though people are starting to experiment with options a bit more at home.

There's some logic to it. If you're going to invest into an arcade stick and you plan to participate in the scene, wouldn't you want to pick a setup that is more-or-less ubiquitous? This is one of the reasons why microswitched keyboards are not as popular as they could be/should be, because you aren't going to walk into an arcade or (in a pinch) be able to borrow a setup that is similar to your own.

Don't misunderstand: I'm not one who believes a setup has to be "flawless", but there's some truth to performance based on muscle memory. A non-standard setup means you might be forced into an unfamiliar situation when playing at tourneys or arcades.

 

[Yumi]

Gotta work on that finesse yo. I like them but my hands are small.

 

[Nymphae]

There's some logic to it. If you're going to invest into an arcade stick and you plan to participate in the scene, wouldn't you want to pick a setup that is more-or-less ubiquitous?

I'm not sure why really. When you're just getting into it, sure, you are probably going to get something off the shelf, and that's going to be a 35mm layout. If you play in arcades at all, same deal. Muscle memory is real and if you have any experience with existing setups, yeah you probably want to stay that course at the outset, and maybe just stick with it if you have no issues.

Nowadays though, you take your stick with you anywhere you are going to play, newer arcade cabinets let you plug and play with your own stick. It's not really going to hold you back in any way because you don't have a ubiquitous layout, unless you get used to it and then are using someone else's tools somewhere. Whatever feels best for you is what is going to be best for you. Though it's not exactly a trivial thing to test out a 24mm setup.

 

[Spukc]

the sticks on the switch are better then the vita,

and that is not saying anything good about the joycons.

try playing doom on your procontroller and then go back to the joycons.
shit is bad

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I'm not sure why really. When you're just getting into it, sure, you are probably going to get something off the shelf, and that's going to be a 35mm layout. If you play in arcades at all, same deal. Muscle memory is real and if you have any experience with existing setups, yeah you probably want to stay that course at the outset, and maybe just stick with it if you have no issues.

Nowadays though, you take your stick with you anywhere you are going to play, newer arcade cabinets let you plug and play with your own stick. It's not really going to hold you back in any way because you don't have a ubiquitous layout, unless you get used to it and then are using someone else's tools somewhere. Whatever feels best for you is what is going to be best for you. Though it's not exactly a trivial thing to test out a 24mm setup.

I'm glad that it is much easier to test these things out than before. Microswitched keyboards, no-lever arcade sticks, Korean levers vs American vs Japanese (and all the brands therein). 35mm vs 24mm. Vewlix vs Noir vs Hitbox layout. Concave vs convex. Octogate vs square gate. 1lb vs 2lb springs. It's crazy how much tweaking can be done.

I forgot that lots of cabs let you plug in your own. That's not much of a thing in my area since arcades aren't much of a thing in my area, but it's a sign of growth in the industry.

 

[joe_zazen]

If any activity gives you hand or wrist pain/numbness, stop doing it immediately.

 

[BlackTron]

Most of the time, Nintendo's controller antics result in a small handful of games that take such good advantage of the special controller it's the definitive way to play it, such as the case with RE4 on the wiimote and nunchuck.

For 95%+ of games though, it usually ends up being an annoying hindrance.

Joy cons are the most practical so far. They aren't that great to use, but they are extremely versatile/adaptable and are at least "okay" for most uses.

I don't like how they feel either, they are too small. I need a little more grip. At the same time I don't want to remove a grip every time I want to remove the controllers or dock the Switch, so I tried these swivel grips from Nyko:

It might look silly, but I love these things. They appear intended only for helping out with using a joycon sideways, but when the handles are retracted behind the joy cons they create extra bulk to grip. It helps a lot in handheld mode. You don't need to remove them to dock the switch, which I usually do and then pick up my pro controller. When you do remove them, they help enough that I don't bother with the grip packed in with the system.

Ironically I almost never use sideways joycons, the main purpose of this accessory, but when you do, that little extra bit of plastic makes a huge difference.

I can hardly use joycons for 20 minutes without these things. I still wouldn't like it for a game like Smash, but it's enough for light portable gaming or controlling an RPG in relative comfort (I used them last night during a 2 hour Wargroove match).