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Red Dead Redemption 2: Digital Foundry Analysis (2-parts)

David Ricardo said:
I was playing in 1080p no supersampling with my PS4 pro because I had heard that when supersampled the image looked softer, but I just tried it and it apparently looks pretty good. What graphical downgrade should I notice when playing SS compared to native 1080p? I don't see any.
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The no SS theory was just that a theory.

The idea that without SS on you would be getting the stock 1080p native resolution that could be cleaner than the downsampled manufactured 4K resolution that is resulting in some artifacting, detail loss, and added blur in instances.

It's just an idea. Nothing concrete like from a DF analysis.

Whatever looks best to you, go with, whether it's SS or no SS, patch or no patch

For some of the other posts on this page (nitpicking, Vaseline, what are people talking about, etc)

The game looks great on any console. The majority of the discussion is just about some visual blemishes that the Pro rendering is producing that shouldn't be there
 
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So I probably won't buy this game due to not enjoying a single game by Rockstar since gta3.

But if I do would I be better setting the pro to 1080p to avoid the half assed cb implementation or does it ss by default?
 
Toe-Knee said:
That was 8tf to brute force it without any optimisations
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I always thought this was a silly, broad generalization from a guy like Cerny..l While good intentioned, it proves out as false in many cases. 4K is completely situational and game by game, dev by dev. In no way does a statement like that hold water without further clarification.
 
Well hopefully R* sort whatever it is that's busted with the PS4 Pro visuals.

I've been playing all day and half that time I've played with the latest updated version seeing lots of different weather, times of day and lighting etc, HDR on, HDR off etc. Don't get me wrong, it looks really good. I then delete the game and reinstall the disc version and disable internet so it does not update. So I'm playing the vanilla, 1.00 version from the disc. There's definitely a difference in visuals.

I played for hours again and the game just looks better, I just cannot put my finger on what has changed. It's like a step down overall, kind of like in PC games where you have graphics presets of low, medium and high. It's like it's been toggled down from high to medium so many graphics features have taken a hit, not just AA or resolution. Frame rate has improved but the image looks less refined.

If your a graphics nut like me then I'm sticking with no update until R* address it because I'm sure something is amiss.

Or buy the One X version lol (Which I'd love to do just to compare but I don't need an X)
 
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Calibos said:
I always thought this was a silly, broad generalization from a guy like Cerny..l While good intentioned, it proves out as false in many cases. 4K is completely situational and game by game, dev by dev. In no way does a statement like that hold water without further clarification.
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He meant it where as just like the PS4 with 1080p being the staple in just about 95%+ of all games, that is the number needed for 4K with the same %. And if you see how close the X gets sometimes with all the games, but no where near 95%+ like the base PS4 is with 1080p, 8TF would more than likely deliver that with the current gen games based on the rendering output we are seeing.

Yes we know, their budget can make 4K/60 in every game... if they did not push to the AAA rendering standard, but with the graphics trend every gen, that is definitely a safe number. 1 game does not disprove it, when the rest of the catalogue is not hitting at that % clip.
 
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I personally think this game looks great on all systems. And props to the X, looks absolutely stunning. Installing it now on PS4 standard...gonna be great.

On a side note, I wish consoles would stop making 3 consoles a generation..Ps4, ps4 pro, xbox one, s, x. I want proper gens, not leap frogging updates....I cant afford that shit haha
 
2scoops said:
I personally think this game looks great on all systems. And props to the X, looks absolutely stunning. Installing it now on PS4 standard...gonna be great.

On a side note, I wish consoles would stop making 3 consoles a generation..Ps4, ps4 pro, xbox one, s, x. I want proper gens, not leap frogging updates....I cant afford that shit haha
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I play in the base PS4 as well, and you'll be in for a treat. It looks fantastic on it.
 
I ended up buying the game the other night, really enjoying it so far. I think it looks great on my PS4 Pro and 4K HDR set. Was expecting it to be a blurry mess going off the internet and DF but I think it looks really great, not blurry at all, nice and crisp. I also have a nice gaming rig connected to TV that I regularly play games @ 4K 60fps and other than being 30fps the image quality holds up great.
 
So from my playing a little more into it as soon as their is a direct lighting source or God ray applied to anything in the pro version it turns into a pixelated mess...outside of that it's not too bad

The Rhodes area is by far the worst area to play on the pro as it's a swampy/misty area with lots of light sources coming through trees ect

There also appears to be some weird glowing on some body parts like ears and noses which are not in direct line of the light source

The game is by far the most beautiful looking game on both consoles

Pretty sure it's got goty in the bag
 
KageyK said:
Damn man that's sounds racist as fuck. The saying is nit picking. It's a term for picking out lice. For example; I had to nit pick her hair tonight because she didn't go over it with a fine toothed comb.

Just so you know baby lice are called nits.

Not sure what nip pick would mean. Either you are tearing round skin tags off of other people's chests, or you think Asian people are small enough to grab and pick up.
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I misspelled something boo fucking hoo thats all you have to add? Thats what we are doing here now k got it.
 
Still bowled away by this, the crowning graphical achievement of this generation so far. It's not just the engine, lighting etc its the art itself, the level of detail, environmental design, physicality (those horse crashes...)

To play something like this at 4K with pin sharp visuals is something I'd not believed at the start of this generation. Late gen hardware refresh ftw.
 
It seems Rockstars HDR implementation further blurs the image on PS4-PRO, giving a washed out look....Without that, it looks much better....Quite a few things are not working at a high quality level that's for sure....

As for the talk about Cerny.....It's simple, PS4 is a 1080p machine, it was built to spec to render games at 1080p, that's why it has 32rops, faster memory etc...So at least 98% of PS4 titles are native 1080p.... On the flip, XBONEX 4K native titles is roughly in the 15% range, it can do 4k, but it doesn't have enough to 4K at the majority ratio that PS4 is able to do 1080p.

Even the PS4 and XBOX-ONE can do 4k games, it does not mean they are 4k machines for current gen AAA titles...


--------
As for the general discussion here, I think some people try to insinuate that persons think that PRO should be sharper or rendering higher than XBONEX. That has never been a debate, (at least not by me)...Yet there are lots of cases where XBONEX rez is too high and it's framerate is lower than PRO, which again speaks to it not being a 4k machine on the majority level, say as PS4 is to 1080p.....The problem with PRO here is not that they should have a higher rez or similar rez to XBONEX, but that IQ/Sharpness should be much closer to XBONEX.......If PRO's CB implementation was properly done or met standard....or if they just rendered normally in 16:9 fashion, that would have been accomplished.....Yet, the gist is, that PRO can sometimes look about on par or perhaps worse to vanilla PS4's sharpness, which is a bit odd pushing that many more pixels (granted the aspect ratio is a culprit here, if CB is not firing)....So yes, persons just want to see the proper divide that a 100% uptick on PRO's GPU power should show over vanilla PS4 (relative to IQ and sharpness) and by that token a closer divide to XBONEX (which has a 40% uptick over PRO).....
 
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thelastword said:
Yet there are lots of cases where XBONEX rez is too high and it's framerate is lower than PRO, which again speaks to it not being a 4k machine on the majority level
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Red Dead 2 is arguably the best looking game of this generation and runs at native 4K and a very stable 30fps on the X1X. The console has the ability to run most modern games at 4K/30fps if devs would take the time to optimize the way Rockstar did.
 
thelastword said:
So yes, persons just want to see the proper divide that a 100% uptick on PRO's GPU power should show over vanilla PS4 (relative to IQ and sharpness) and by that token a closer divide to XBONEX (which has a 40% uptick over PRO).....
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You seem fixated on pure compute power, while ignoring that X1X has an additional 3.5GB of usable RAM and an additional 108GB/s memory bandwidth over the PS4 Pro.

On the other side, the PS4 Pro has only .5GB extra RAM and 42GB/s extra memory bandwidth over the PS4, which is why in many games it doesn't have a settings/quality boost over the PS4.

The PS4 Pro is rendering twice as many pixels as the PS4, so your "persons just want to see the proper divide that a 100% uptick on PRO's GPU power should show over vanilla PS4" is actually funny. You realize that, right?

X1X is just a beast when shown the proper love. Have some respect for the over 60 targeted changes MS made to the pipeline on the X1X. dark10x already stated there was no downgrade to the Pro. This is the footage you've been seeing all along, just doesn't look so hot next to the sexy X1X footage.
 
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Salty Popsicle said:
Red Dead 2 is arguably the best looking game of this generation and runs at native 4K and a very stable 30fps on the X1X. The console has the ability to run most modern games at 4K/30fps if devs would take the time to optimize the way Rockstar did.
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Yeah, it really makes me wonder. If DR2 can run at native 4k/30 fps lock then shouldn't every game be able to? Look at everything happening on screen at once in RDR2. Or did Rockstar just do THAT good of a job with the X optimizations?

CrustyBritches said:
On the other side, the PS4 Pro has only .5GB extra RAM and 42GB/s extra memory bandwidth over the PS4, which is why in many games it doesn't have a settings/quality boost over the PS4.
Click to expand...

I do really wish that Sony/Cerny had decided to throw in an extra couple gigs of ram for the Pro. I feel this upgrade doesn't get enough credit for the X.

CrustyBritches said:
The PS4 Pro is rendering twice as many pixels as the PS4, so your "persons just want to see the proper divide that a 100% uptick on PRO's GPU power should show over vanilla PS4" is actually funny. You realize that, right?
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but I think what TLW is trying to point out is that the Pro is pushing the pixels but we aren't seeing the benefits of it, like we did with GoW for example (in resolution mode), again going back to the "botched" comment from DF in regard to the Pro's 4k construction attempt.

It feels like it isn't doing it right, for lack of a better way of saying it. There really is very little, if none at all, visible difference between Pro and base PS4 for RDR2.
 
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JareBear said:
I could be wrong but I think what TLW is trying to point out is that the Pro is pushing the pixels but we aren't seeing the benefits of it, like we did with GoW for example (in resolution mode), again going back to the "botched" comment from DF in regard to the Pro's 4k construction attempt.
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That's just TLW trying to be slick with his words. He tries to draw X1X's massive advantage into same mud that the PS4/Pro are in:
---
"Even the PS4 and XBOX-ONE can do 4k games, it does not mean they are 4k machines for current gen AAA titles..."

"which again speaks to it not being a 4k machine on the majority level"

"The problem with PRO here is not that they should have a higher rez or similar rez to XBONEX, but that IQ/Sharpness should be much closer to XBONEX"

"and by that token a closer divide to XBONEX (which has a 40% uptick over PRO)....."
---

What he's really doing is called damage control. Sony built a checkerboard 4k system with the Pro meant to play PS4 games at the same settings with twice the resolution. What causes him pain is that X1X is doing the same thing to the Pro, but with better settings.

Which brings me back around to my assertion that it's seeing the X1X version next to the Pro that's f*cking with their heads.
 
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CrustyBritches said:
Sorry, Sony built a checkerboard 4K system, and now you see why MS was bragging on "uncompromised 4K".
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Yeah, I feel ya.

One thing I always wondered is: Why didn't Sony didn't delay or rethink the Pro's specs once we found out how powerful the X was gonna be. Did they not care? Not realize how well engineered the X would be? Was it just too late at that point?
 
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CrustyBritches said:
That's just TLW trying to be slick with his words. He tries to draw X1X's massive advantage into same mud that the PS4/Pro are in:
---
"Even the PS4 and XBOX-ONE can do 4k games, it does not mean they are 4k machines for current gen AAA titles..."

"which again speaks to it not being a 4k machine on the majority level"

"The problem with PRO here is not that they should have a higher rez or similar rez to XBONEX, but that IQ/Sharpness should be much closer to XBONEX"

"and by that token a closer divide to XBONEX (which has a 40% uptick over PRO)....."
---

What he's really doing is called damage control. Sony built a checkerboard 4k system with the Pro meant to play PS4 games at the same settings with twice the resolution. What causes him pain is that X1X is doing the same thing to the Pro, but with better settings.

Which brings me back around to my assertion that it's seeing the X1X version next to the Pro that's f*cking with their heads.
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Its alright, TLW has done a new thread for just XB1 vs PS4, and he's basking in the improvements on PS4 lol, even though he has a Pro.
 
CrustyBritches said:
That's just TLW trying to be slick with his words. He tries to draw X1X's massive advantage into same mud that the PS4/Pro are in:
---
"Even the PS4 and XBOX-ONE can do 4k games, it does not mean they are 4k machines for current gen AAA titles..."

"which again speaks to it not being a 4k machine on the majority level"

"The problem with PRO here is not that they should have a higher rez or similar rez to XBONEX, but that IQ/Sharpness should be much closer to XBONEX"

"and by that token a closer divide to XBONEX (which has a 40% uptick over PRO)....."
---

What he's really doing is called damage control. Sony built a checkerboard 4k system with the Pro meant to play PS4 games at the same settings with twice the resolution. What causes him pain is that X1X is doing the same thing to the Pro, but with better settings.

Which brings me back around to my assertion that it's seeing the X1X version next to the Pro that's f*cking with their heads.
Click to expand...

Lol love how he posted a new thread with the NXgamer comparison on the base Xbox vs PS4 with the thread titled "how most of us play"

Damage control at it's finest. Not even going to post in it, as he's just baiting people at this point in hopes it gains traction. He could've easily placed that video in here for comparison sake.

Poor TLW, hanging on by a thread. No pun intended.
 
JareBear said:
Yeah, I feel ya.

One thing I always wondered is: Why didn't Sony didn't delay or rethink the Pro's specs once we found out how powerful the X was gonna be. Did they not care? Not realize how well engineered the X would be? Was it just too late at that point?
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Sony stated that the reason behind the Pro was to be a stop gap for console users who tend to migrate to PC mid-gen. MS on the other hand needed to change the perception caused by their choice to spend their SoC money on Kinect. They wanted to win back the Digital Foundry faceoff advantage and change public perception. I'd say they put significantly more effort into their design, from the UHD Blu-Ray to vapor chamber cooler to 12GB RAM and more. I consider it to be the best designed console all-time.

The good thing for gamers is that MS has raised expectations for hardware design next gen with the X1X. Sony and MS will go at it and we all win.

octiny said:
Lol love how he posted a new thread with the NXgamer comparison on the base Xbox vs PS4 with the thread titled "how most of us play"

Damage control at it's finest. Not even going to post in it, as he's just baiting people at this point in hopes it gains traction. He could've easily placed that video in here for comparison sake.

Poor TLW, hanging on by a thread. No pun intended.
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Same here, let it die in the fire like Musky_Cheese's burning horse festival...
 
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Salty Popsicle said:
Red Dead 2 is arguably the best looking game of this generation and runs at native 4K and a very stable 30fps on the X1X. The console has the ability to run most modern games at 4K/30fps if devs would take the time to optimize the way Rockstar did.
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That is your opinion on RDR2, I'm not going to argue this....However, what's not fact is that the XBONEX is a 4K machine in the vein of PS4 being a 1080p machine. I think people are being way disingenuos with this Cerny thing, and they bring it up everytime there's a 4K native game on XBONEX and never when it does not, or when framerates suffer at high rez or when lots of games are DR. Yet, we all know what is being suggested here is not what he meant, that was not the point he made.....A GTX 1060 6GB has 3.8 TFlops, yet it runs games at 4k, it can run Forza at 4k, it can Far Cry at 4k, two recent games. That doesn't make it a 4k GPU across the board.....When someone says that, it doesn't detract from the fact that games can run at 4k on XBONEX or 1060....Cerny was simply talking about the standard resolution for a console....And bare in mind, he was talking about this gen, next gen that changes obviously, as graphical complexity and fidelity improves...

CrustyBritches said:
You seem fixated on pure compute power, while ignoring that X1X has an additional 3.5GB of usable RAM and an additional 108GB/s memory bandwidth over the PS4 Pro.

On the other side, the PS4 Pro has only .5GB extra RAM and 42GB/s extra memory bandwidth over the PS4, which is why in many games it doesn't have a settings/quality boost over the PS4.

The PS4 Pro is rendering twice as many pixels as the PS4, so your "persons just want to see the proper divide that a 100% uptick on PRO's GPU power should show over vanilla PS4" is actually funny. You realize that, right?

X1X is just a beast when shown the proper love. Have some respect for the over 60 targeted changes MS made to the pipeline on the X1X. dark10x already stated there was no downgrade to the Pro. This is the footage you've been seeing all along, just doesn't look so hot next to the sexy X1X footage.
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What is this? I don't care for your copious stream of adjectives describing XBOX. I'm aware of the higher bandwidth lending itself to higher resolutions over the 40% spec, I even said that recently in one of my posts.....I have no issue with the fact that XBONEX is 4K here, I only have issue with the 4KCB on PRO not looking as sharp compared to pretty much every other 4KCB game....Why are you guys intent on suggesting things no one said.....?

CrustyBritches said:
Sony stated that the reason behind the Pro was to be a stop gap for console users who tend to migrate to PC mid-gen. MS on the other hand needed to change the perception caused by their choice to spend their SoC money on Kinect. They wanted to win back the Digital Foundry faceoff advantage and change public perception. I'd say they put significantly more effort into their design, from the UHD Blu-Ray to vapor chamber cooler to 12GB RAM and more. I consider it to be the best designed console all-time.

The good thing for gamers is that MS has raised expectations for hardware design next gen with the X1X. Sony and MS will go at it and we all win.
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No, I'd say, they came one year later at $100.00 more......Anybody could do that except Nintendo (Which doesn't care to).......Perhaps, such a post would carry more weight if the PRO and XBONEX came out at the same time with the same price, but we all know how that would turn out....Similar to 2013, but the weaker one would still be more expensive?

In any case, I want you to enjoy your beast at 4k, I'm happy for you....I just want my beast to perform 4KCB like has been done a million times before. Why is that troubling to you.....
 
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Own it on the "X" (also have Uncharted 4 and God of War 4) and think its the best looking game this gen.
 
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thelastword said:
In any case, I want you to enjoy your beast at 4k, I'm happy for you....I just want my beast to perform 4KCB like has been done a million times before. Why is that troubling to you.....
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
JLMC469 said:
Own it on the "X" (also have Unharted 4 and God of War 4) and think its the best looking game this gen.
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Really? It's nice, but the IQ isn't as good as a lot of games. There is more detail though, so if that is what you mean I can see that.
 
Those of us which were discussing SS mode and 1080p displays earlier, I got a quick update:

NXGamer confirmed in his X vs Pro video analysis the following:

For 1080 displays with SS OFF
Native 1080p, locked 30 fps
Cleaner image due to lack of the artifacting from the 4K reconstruction technique being used

He provides comparison shots and footage, check it out

So yes, this does confirm that in some ways the base PS4 provides a cleaner image for RDR2 than Pro in 4K, which I really hope gets cleaned up
 
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octiny said:
Lol love how he posted a new thread with the NXgamer comparison on the base Xbox vs PS4 with the thread titled "how most of us play"

Damage control at it's finest. Not even going to post in it, as he's just baiting people at this point in hopes it gains traction. He could've easily placed that video in here for comparison sake.

Poor TLW, hanging on by a thread. No pun intended.
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It's actually quite sad to see someone so deeply affected in such a negative way over a technical analysis. I think I might take up religion just so I can pray for the poor boy 🙏
 
JareBear said:
Those of us which were discussing SS mode and 1080p displays earlier, I got a quick update:

NXGamer confirmed in his X vs Pro video analysis the following:

For 1080 displays with SS OFF
Native 1080p, locked 30 fps
Cleaner image due to lack of the artifacting from the 4K reconstruction technique being used

He provides comparison shots and footage, check it out

So yes, this does confirm that in some ways the base PS4 provides a cleaner image for RDR2 than Pro in 4K, which I really hope gets cleaned up
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Hmm.. what can I do on a 4k TV though? Don't think I have much to do here but stick to botched 4kcb.

Whatever the case, it still looks good.
 
JareBear said:
One thing I always wondered is: Why didn't Sony didn't delay or rethink the Pro's specs once we found out how powerful the X was gonna be. Did they not care? Not realize how well engineered the X would be? Was it just too late at that point?
Click to expand...
Initial specs (or SPECulations - see what I did there?) for Pro were leaked way before there were any hints of there being a Project Scorpio. And yet this was less than a year before Pro was shipped. At that point, it was well into production already, way too late to change anything. And besides, the only thing that could be gathered from the Scorpio E3 reveal (anything tangible, other than "most powerful console") was that it likely had 12GB RAM, indicated by the view of the chips.
 
JareBear said:
NXGamer confirmed in his X vs Pro video analysis the following:

For 1080 displays with SS OFF
Native 1080p, locked 30 fps
Cleaner image due to lack of the artifacting from the 4K reconstruction technique being used
Click to expand...

I don't think that what he says. He said in 1080P without SS mode the sharpness filter is on and otherwise the sharpness filter is off, thus it looks blurrier than 1080P. Of course a sharpness filter is not adding information.[
 
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Lort said:
TLW you started a whole thread for you to make your arguments in .. why not post them in there. ;)
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He had to shift goalposts after being filleted in this thread. Claims to own a "beast PS4 Pro", but makes a thread about PS4 vs Xbox One entitled, "RDR2: PS4 vs Xbox One, THE WAY MOST OF US PLAY". Hahahahaha.
giphy.gif

---
Side note: I find it bullshit that the attention is being averted away from DF's analysis to whatever you want to call that troll thread.
 
Lort said:
TLW you started a whole thread for you to make your arguments in .. why not post them in there. ;)
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Why does DF deserve a thread and not other tech sites, when other tech sites give valuable information we don't get from DF. Is DF the official techspot for GAF? Why should other tech sites be relegated to just a post in a DF thread, when they do great work? Also, so people can brush their findings on a side and say they rather DF or trust them more?....DF's work can be discussed in DF threads, other technical analysis can be discussed in their own threads to give the other tech sites their due and coverage....

CrustyBritches said:
He had to shift goalposts after being filleted in this thread. Claims to own a "beast PS4 Pro", but makes a thread about PS4 vs Xbox One entitled, "RDR2: PS4 vs Xbox One, THE WAY MOST OF US PLAY". Hahahahaha.
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Statements like these are so transparent, yet some persons want to pretend to be under a neutral guise....Nothing I stated in that OP is false. XB-ONE vs PS4 is how most of us play.....That's a fact....Yet, I realize most of you don't want to discuss facts or even the topic but rather dwell on console warring. Have fun.
 
this game is beautiful on the xbox one x too bad it has horrible slugish controls and horrible button control layout "10/10 guys"
 
thelastword said:
Why does DF deserve a thread and not other tech sites, when other tech sites give valuable information we don't get from DF. Is DF the official techspot for GAF? Why should other tech sites be relegated to just a post in a DF thread, when they do great work? Also, so people can brush their findings on a side and say they rather DF or trust them more?....DF's work can be discussed in DF threads, other technical analysis can be discussed in their own threads to give the other tech sites their due and coverage....


Statements like these are so transparent, yet some persons want to pretend to be under a neutral guise....Nothing I stated in that OP is false. XB-ONE vs PS4 is how most of us play.....That's a fact....Yet, I realize most of you don't want to discuss facts or even the topic but rather dwell on console warring. Have fun.
Click to expand...


Sorry for your loss.
 
thelastword said:
Statements like these are so transparent, yet some persons want to pretend to be under a neutral guise....Nothing I stated in that OP is false. XB-ONE vs PS4 is how most of us play.....That's a fact....Yet, I realize most of you don't want to discuss facts or even the topic but rather dwell on console warring. Have fun.
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Oh trust me, when it comes to bad actors like you I'm anything but neutral. If you'd like to get back where I was teaching you why raw compute power isn't everything then simply take back all that anti-Xbox spin I quoted earlier and we'll resume.

Let's be honest...you love all this negative attention. The best thing anybody could do is just ignore you until you go away. I'll be the first. Best to lead by example.
 
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