Support NeoGAF

[Phat Michael]

Meanwhile, bish & co continues to ban Microsoft astroturfers that managed to register on GAF. Subsequently, I find the post in question hard to believe, considering it's a piece of piss to create a new Reddit account (username & password, that's it. An e-mail address is optional).

I didn't mention the bans on here were wrong. I didn't say anyone did anything bad on Gaf. all I said was that a huge thread blew up with loads of accusations from an unsubstantiated post. it's a shame because now it's going to look like many people excited about the xbox one could be accused of being MS employees.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

All of the big 3 have paid shills. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo is the exception. Just can't see them doing it for some reason.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Is there actually any chance where this isn't true though? MAybe they don't have confirmed instances of it but I don't know how there could be absolutely none of it. Not just for Microsoft, of course.

While /r/gaming is a cesspool of shit, I do not doubt for one minute that it isn't happening.

Any company is dumb to ignore:

a) free unlimited registration
b) large community
c) anyone can post or comment
d) potentially seen by hundreds of thousands to millions of people

We just happen to see Microsoft do it more, cause, well, that's what we're looking for because it goes against our gaming views, whereas a simple pro sony or pro nintendo wouldn't garner nearly as much attention.

Besides damage control is extremely easy to see so...

 

[M.D]

Can you really trust Reddit moderators?

I don't know. Can we trust you?

 

[Mass Effect]

No, they're denying this specific instance of astroturfing. That original thread could be, and has every potential to be made up, but reddit DOES have its shills, just like GAF.

 

[Rolf NB]

An online marketing firm that does not engage in planting and astroturfing? An utterly outrageous claim, and I want some evidence presented to me before giving it any second thought.




See how that works?

 

[Zeroth]

Is there actually any chance where this isn't true though? MAybe they don't have confirmed instances of it but I don't know how there could be absolutely none of it. Not just for Microsoft, of course.

Reading on the Reddit post, he mentions this:

2. In the comments on that post, several people chimed in with similar stories. One individual claimed to work for Waggener Edstrom, whose client list does include Microsoft, and alleged that this PR firm was "really trying to ramp up their presence on blog sites and Reddit in particular."

3. I have since communicated with Peter Wootton, Senior Vice President for Waggener Edstrom, who reviewed his firm's employee and contractor records and found no trace of the individual in (2) ever having worked for or with them, and as such that individual would have no knowledge of any of the operations of that firm. I reviewed the data he sent me and found it compelling enough to assert that it is true and correct.

4. I asked Mr. Wootton the following questions, on the record:
Is your firm now, or has it been in the past, engaged in using paid or unpaid staff, contractors, volunteers, or associates to post, comment, and/or vote on content for or on behalf of any company, firm, or organization in the /r/Gaming section of reddit.com? Has your firm ever advised or suggested to any other company, firm, or organization that it should use its own paid or unpaid staff, contractors, volunteers, or associates to post, comment, and/or vote on content in the /r/Gaming section of reddit.com?

5. His response appears below:
Totally fair question, Dan. The answer is no. Waggener Edstrom adheres to a strict code of ethics and conduct in terms of how we participate in social forums and services as individuals, and on behalf of the clients we counsel and represent.

Seems like he denied the company thought to be astroturfing is actually astroturfing, but he doesn't necessarily deny there are astroturfers in Reddit. The thread seems to be more focused on "Don't believe baseless rumours" than "We don't have astroturfers", though without the moderation taking a stance the later will be given more credit, specially with this false logic:

8. Let's also look at it from a pragmatic standpoint. If Microsoft was trying to manipulate /r/gaming, they're certainly not doing it effectively. Ever since the XBox One was revealed, the commentary on it in this community has been universally negative. Our entire front page, for the last 24 hours, has consisted entirely of memes making fun of Microsoft and the XBox One.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Oh, bullshit. Somehow it's happening on GAF but not Reddit? Yeah right. And here come the know-it-alls to blame GAF for "believing everything." Do a cross search for their user name in the other thread and witness fair weather posting.

 

[Courage]

But what about the accounts on GAF?

 

[Sorian]

Contradicts with what bishoptl said about the new juniors.

Maybe this mod is a shill?

Spoiler

lol, this is going too far

We have to go deeper!

You can't pay off GAF mods though, that's the thing.

Or can I?!?

Spoiler

Y2Kev, can I have a tag for a fiver?

 

[Darknight]

I dont really go to reddit but Im sure MS employees are doing some damage control on the nets even here. Having said that, dont trust redditors lol, trust bish and his ban hammer.

 

[Delusibeta]

Is there actually any chance where this isn't true though? MAybe they don't have confirmed instances of it but I don't know how there could be absolutely none of it. Not just for Microsoft, of course.

0%.

 

[Jake Tower]

Surprise surprise. unsubstantiated reddit post causes a 1300 post Gaf thread with no basis.

And yet the astroturfers among us are a verified phenomena.

 

[methane47]

So they are dismissing it because its a Brand new account?

I would create a brand new account to drop bombs like that as well. Especially if my colleagues and/or bosses already associate me with a specific account.

 

[Brinbe]

Doesn't address the fact that it does happen

 

[alr1ght]

 

[Nekofrog]

In addition to my previous post, it almost seems like this declaration by reddit mods gives future astroturfers the green light to kick it into high gear.

edit: lol using the 0-day account excuse to disprove it. Because it's not like it's now a WELL KNOWN practice on reddit to create a 0day account to post news like this due to fear of reprisal. mods even fucking encourage throwaway accounts. something is going on here.

 

[-PXG-]

Except GAF fell for it completely. Which is understandable since there are confirmed MS shills here.

There are shills, sycophants and undercover marketing people all over the place. I just don't like the general attitude of Reddit and how the site is structured.

I just do my best to ignore the bullshit.

The sticky E3 thread on /v/ is a riot.

 

[EatinOlives]

Are we reading the same thread? Everyone is dismissing that mod just because bish said there were shills on GAF.

I'm not talking about this thread, there are plenty of other threads, like the Microsoft E3 one, where people are dismissing the entirety of the shill problem with handwave arguments like "so what? Everyone does it" and "Haha stupid GAF for falling for Reddit trolls, the shill problem is really overblown".

 

[JWong]

NSA infiltrates Reddit
Microsoft signs NSA prism agreement
Reddit allows Microsoft astroturfing

/conspiracytheory

 

[Kai Dracon]

Because that's kind of what Reddit is saying - who would tell lies on the internet? As others pointed out above just because one guy was a fake or at troll doesn't mean Reddit isn't infested with viral marketers. (Because everyone has them.)

Maybe the problem with the whole concept. You can't prove there are astroturfers at work in every given instance. But it's probably not safe to assume there are none of them around.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

And yet the astroturfers among us are a verified phenomena.

How do the mods here on gaf know if a poster is an astroturfer and not simply a delusional console warrior?

 

[NullPointer]

I don't know. Can we trust you?

 

[harSon]

But what about the accounts on GAF?

There's definitely astroturfing occurring, but I believe it to be lone wolves protecting a product they've invested thousands of hours of their lives into, instead of the corporate sanctioned policy that people are pushing it to be.

 

[Mass Effect]

How do the mods here on gaf know if a poster is an astroturfer and not simply a delusional console warrior?

The email addresses they registered with.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

How do the mods here on gaf know if a poster is an astroturfer and not simply a delusional console warrior?

Email.

 

[alr1ght]

How do the mods here on gaf know if a poster is an astroturfer and not simply a delusional console warrior?

There's definitely astroturfing occurring, but I believe it to be lone wolves protecting a product they've invested thousands of hours of their lives into, instead of the corporate sanctioned policy that people are pushing it to be.

 

[legacyzero]

Can't wait to buy an Xbox One

 

[Krusenstern]

I hope at least the mods here on GAF can take care of the astroturfers.

 

[EatinOlives]

How do the mods here on gaf know if a poster is an astroturfer and not simply a delusional console warrior?

A combination of posting habits and the email accounts they sign up with. It's not just a matter of banning people who are defending MS.

There's also a list going around of the common arguments the astroturfers are using. They use a few very prominent key words and the arguments almost always do little but deflect or derail a debate.

 

[Zeroth]

There's definitely astroturfing occurring, but I believe it to be lone wolves protecting a product they've invested thousands of hours of their lives into, instead of the corporate sanctioned policy that people are pushing it to be.

Except it's a funny coincidence all these hardcore microsoft fans have social agencies emails and speak through PR language to defend their favorite company.

Below: Post #66

 

[Bornstellar]

I would like to see the "proof" that was used here since there were several members who were banned without just cause (which are no longer banned now, but still). It is mind-boggling how quickly the quality of discussion dropped as a result of all this.

 

[Perkel]

Are we reading the same thread? Everyone is dismissing that mod just because bish said there were shills on GAF.

Neogaf is closed community and has ton of shills
Redit is open community and does not have shills


Do you see problem here ?

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

The email addresses they registered with.

Not sure I understand. They're obviously not registering under MS employee email addresses. So I guess they all register under the same paid email service provider?

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

There's definitely astroturfing occurring, but I believe it to be lone wolves protecting a product they've invested thousands of hours of their lives into, instead of the corporate sanctioned policy that people are pushing it to be.

Correct me if im wrong but astroturfing isnt when an extreme fanboy defends his console or company of choice but when they actually are paid to do it.

 

[Easy_D]

Can't wait to buy an Xbox One

Same. Can't wait to see what the thing is with Phantom Dust.

 

[Sorian]

I would like to see the "proof" that was used here since there were several members who were banned without just cause (which are no longer banned now, but still). It is mind-boggling how quickly the quality of discussion dropped as a result of all this.

It's all in the e-mail address, my man. There are other factors too in some cases. I don't know the specific examples you are talking about but that's the general answer.

 

[Wyndstryker]

Not sure I understand. They're obviously not registering under MS employee email addresses. So I guess they all register under the same paid email service provider?

They're registering under a company email address and that company is known to do social media marketing and stuff like that.

 

[Flatline]

The Reddit mod didn't deny anything and doesn't know shit. He asked a PR firm and the PR firm denied it which is the equivalent of asking Major Nelson to confirm a negative story about Xbone. His announcement just gave us info we already had, he just assumed that the post was wrong because the account was new.

 

[Schrade]

Stinkles mentioned that the buildings that were talked about the in Reddit posts weren't even close to each other. Can someone who is familiar with the buildings in questions mark them on a Redmond Campus Map? There's plenty of maps available via Google image search.

I just want to see how far apart they are.

 

[Nekofrog]

Not sure I understand. They're obviously not registering under MS employee email addresses. So I guess they all register under the same paid email service provider?

you'd be really surprised

 

[jaypah]

EDIT2: That said, regular members shouldn't start going all witch-hunt-y on this. Moderators can and will tell when there are shills in topics. I'd rather E3 not involve a thousand people claiming another thousand are all shills just because you don't agree with them.

Too late, it's already happening and it's annoying as hell. Some people just love interned-detective witch-hunts, especially when they know there's a possibility to actually catch a witch. Combine that with folks who are now "outraged" with MS despite the fact that they spent the last Gen shitting on MS anyway and....well, I feel sorry for folks with Xbox stamps on their avatars because they'll be targeted for who knows how long. I don't agree with you = shill.

I will say the whole thing is very interesting (maybe even entertaining) so I can see the glamour in wanting to call someone out but, like I said, at a point it's just going to get annoying.

 

[Daedardus]

The Reddit mod didn't deny anything and doesn't know shit. He asked a PR firm and the PR firm denied it which is the equivalent of asking Major Nelson to confirm a negative story about Xbone. The post just gave us info we already had, he just assumed that the post was wrong because the account was new.

Yup, if I were that guy from the PR firm, I would deny everything. The government can do it, so why can't he?

 

[Inversive]

If there are shills on GAF they are on Reddit too for sure. The Reddit mods can safely be disregarded as talking shit.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Yup the guy may be a troll but astroturfers are real.

 

[EatinOlives]

Too late, it's already happening and it's annoying as hell. Some people just love interned-detective witch-hunts, especially when they know there's a possibility to actually catch a witch. Combine that with folks who are now "outraged" with MS despite the fact that they spent the last Gen shitting on MS anyway and....well, I feel sorry for folks with Xbox stamps on their avatars because they'll be targeted for who knows how long. I don't agree with you = shill.

I will say the whole thing is very interesting (maybe even entertaining) so I can see the glamour in wanting to call someone out but, like I said, at a point it's just going to get annoying.

Yeah, it's happening already unfortunately. That was just me making an extremely futile attempt to point it out

GAF during the Microsoft presser tomorrow will certainly be...interesting.

 

[legacyzero]

What say you, CBOAT?

 

[nib95]

Maybe on Reddit, but GAF has proven astroturfers. Maybe GAF mods are just better at their job?

 

[SonicX_Zero]

So the basis for debunking the whole idea of astroturfing on reddit was just based on asking a SVP of Waggener Edstrom? Unless you mean like Waggener Edstrom is the only PR firm that does this kind of work.

 

[Holly Caust]

Maybe on Reddit, but GAF has proven astroturfers. Maybe GAF mods are just better at their job?

Might be harder to tell on reddit, as you can make accounts without even needing an email account. So probably harder to track down.