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[Darknight]

The Reddit mod didn't deny anything and doesn't know shit. He asked a PR firm and the PR firm denied it which is the equivalent of asking Major Nelson to confirm a negative story about Xbone. His announcement just gave us info we already had, he just assumed that the post was wrong because the account was new.

Basically this.

Bish needs to go to reddit to shut it down. lol

 

[ElTorro]

/conspiracytheory

A very typical characteristic of conspiracy theories: if someone provides evidence against it, the circle of conspirators expands and now includes him as well.

 

[Bornstellar]

Maybe on Reddit, but GAF has proven astroturfers. Maybe GAF mods are just better at their job?

I'm sure this is the case, but regardless, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE PROOF. Full transparency, full disclosure.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Astrosturfing is definitely a thing that happens on many sites. However, the mod does make a good point about the paranoia that's welling up because of it. There's no need to drudge up personal info and dogpile when so many of the shills around here are so transparent anyways. Just let the mods take care of any suspect accounts.

 

[Flatline]

So the basis for debunking the whole idea of astroturfing on reddit was just based on asking a SVP of Waggener Edstrom? Unless you mean like Waggener Edstrom is the only PR firm that does this kind of work.

What's even worse is that he took the reply as fact. Makes perfect sense because PR firms never lie!

 

[Torraz]

I'm pretty sure there are instances of mods in other sub reddits getting kickbacks.

So the chance of the moderator(s) themselves being shills exists.

 

[Grecco]

They're registering under a company email address and that company is known to do social media marketing and stuff like that.

that would be a dumb thing for them to do though. If you are going to shill on websites/forums why register with an email from a shilling company?

 

[Frologic]

Fuck Reddit.

GAF for actual news. /v/ for laughs. It's all you really need, honestly.

Comparing gaf to /r/gaming (one of the worst gaming subreddits) isn't very fair.

 

[A Human Becoming]

As I said in the other thread:

Looking through the banned users in the Xbox One: Details on Connectivity, Licensing (24 hour check-in) and Privacy Features thread it's not too difficult to spot the shills if you check their post history.

 

[Zeroth]

So the basis for debunking the whole idea of astroturfing on reddit was just based on asking a SVP of Waggener Edstrom? Unless you mean like Waggener Edstrom is the only PR firm that does this kind of work.

The mod actually used the argument that "Well, see how there's all this negative talk about the Xbone and Microsoft? Of course there are no astroturfers, since otherwise there would be positive discussions!". Which is a bit simplistic, since even on GAF the majority hates the Xbone policies too, yet we do have shills who try to bring down relevant discussions.

that would be a dumb thing for them to do though. If you are going to shill on websites/forums why register with an email from a shilling company?

Because at some point the company will run out of paid email addresses, and it's not like that information is available to the public anyway.

 

[EatinOlives]

that would be a dumb thing for them to do though. If you are going to shill on websites/forums why register with an email from a shilling company?

I imagine they do it because they can't use easily throwaway accounts like Yahoo, Hotmail, Gmail, etc. to sign up on GAF.

 

[JoeInky]

that would be a dumb thing for them to do though. If you are going to shill on websites/forums why register with an email from a shilling company?

Because they're dumb.

 

[Sorian]

Not too off-topic I hope but why is the pharse "astroturfing" I can't think of a way that this could have sprung up that makes sense to me.

 

[jaypah]

Yeah, it's happening already unfortunately. That was just me making an extremely futile attempt to point it out

GAF during the Microsoft presser tomorrow will certainly be...interesting.

Ok, I hear ya. Yeah GAF is going to be a madhouse tomorrow.

 

[Walshicus]

I suppose it highlights how important trust is in communities such as this. Out an astroturfer and people start obsessing over every new face. It almost makes you think that astroturfing is a liability rather than an asset in most circumstances.

Not too off-topic I hope but why is the pharse "astroturfing" I can't think of a way that this could have sprung up that makes sense to me.

Fake grass, fake "grass roots".

 

[harSon]

What's even worse is that he took the reply as fact. Makes perfect sense because PR firms never lie!

And yet taking a newly created account's word on Reddit as gospel is somehow better?

 

[shakin_haitian]

Not too off-topic I hope but why is the pharse "astroturfing" I can't think of a way that this could have sprung up that makes sense to me.

Astroturf is fake turf.

 

[Flatline]

I suppose it highlights how important trust is in communities such as this. Out an astroturfer and people start obsessing over every new face. It almost makes you think that astroturfing is a liability rather than an asset in most circumstances.

Viral marketing should be illegal, what kind of shitty government would allow corporations to disguise as consumers and blatantly lie to us?

 

[Wyndstryker]

that would be a dumb thing for them to do though. If you are going to shill on websites/forums why register with an email from a shilling company?

Marketers aren't paid to cover their tracks, they're paid to promote. A banned account that managed to promote stuff still did it's job. It's the easiest and cheapest avenue available and they can probably keep making emails internally using their own domain until it gets banned, then just shift to a new one.

 

[sn00zer]

it happens here even on closed membership access.... of course its going to happen on the more organized equivalent of 4chan

It was a SHOCKING NEWS story tbh, why wouldnt it happen

 

[kirblar]

Reminds me of when Ahmadinejad claimed there were "no homosexuals in Iran."

 

[HocusPocus]

So sad how seriously people take this stuff. I mean really. It's freaking games.... lol

 

[TimeEffect]

r/gamimg is as bad to me as r/atheism

There is nothing special that comes from there that you dont find anywhere else. Guess the name of the site + GAF really revved things up

 

[kirblar]

So sad how seriously people take this stuff. I mean really. It's freaking games.... lol

To the people doing the astroturfing, it's how they make a living.

 

[Flatline]

And yet taking a newly created account's word on Reddit as gospel is somehow better?

I didn't say that. But if you're going to try to prove someone wrong you need more than that crap. Not only that but he seems to attempt to make a case that viral marketeers don't exist in r/gaming at all which is laughable to say the least.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

To the people doing the astroturfing, it's how they make a living.

or the companies making games

 

[Walshicus]

Marketers aren't paid to cover their tracks, they're paid to promote. A banned account that managed to promote stuff still did it's job. It's the easiest and cheapest avenue available and they can probably keep making emails internally using their own domain until it gets banned, then just shift to a new one.

I don't think it's effective in this kind of community at least. It's negative brand awareness.

 

[Dreez]

The truth is, we may never know... on one hand, Microsoft has bigger fires to put out than ones on reddit. On the other, I'm sure a PR company would say almost anything to protect the reputation of their biggest client (and one of the biggest in the world).

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

The major difference between GAFs reaction and Reddits is that Reddit went with unsupported claims and little to no evidence, while every action taken by GAF Staff (not the mob mentality which was ready to point fingers) had some amount of inspection put into it. Astroturfing is real, it's all over the net and it will probably never go away. Luckily for us, a lot of them make things too obvious via a part of their paper trail.

Reddit, by the way, is no stranger to astroturfing and shills.

 

[todahawk]

Thing is, GAF has actual evidence we have astroturfers, which is what moved most of the discussion in that thread. And I find it hard to believe Reddit really has no astroturfing whatsoever.

I was a very heavy reddit user for years and in various sub-reddits there was plenty of users caught by mods astroturfing. It would be about movies, hardware, gadgets, cameras, etc.

Some mods don't give a shit, some do.

edit:
and reddit doesn't even require an email to create an account (or at least they didn't the last time I set up an alt account). as big and as open as reddit is it would be ridiculous to think there is no astroturfing occuring. users have posted links to job descriptions that openly point to reddit as a target for reputation management type jobs.

 

[Eric C]

That specific story about going into Microsoft offices and seeing it happen may have been false.

But that doesn't mean astroturfers aren't on Reddit at all.

Astroturfers are everywhere, including Reddit and even here on NeoGAF, the really sophisticated ones will probably never be spotted.

But let's get real here astroturfing is a known, and is a shockingly too common practice among nearly every industry from tech gadgets, to gaming, to election campaigns, and even the various governments around the world.

 

[Tripon]

it happens here even on closed membership access.... of course its going to happen on the more organized equivalent of 4chan

It was a SHOCKING NEWS story tbh, why wouldnt it happen

It wouldn't really work on 4chan since everyone is instantly spectacle of any claim.

Most conversations usually start off as

WALL OF TEXT.

HUH. PROVE IT [RANDOM INSULT]

5 posts later.

Talking about Cats.

 

[TAJ]

I would like to see the "proof" that was used here since there were several members who were banned without just cause (which are no longer banned now, but still). It is mind-boggling how quickly the quality of discussion dropped as a result of all this.

Without cause? Take it to PMs, then.
If they're not banned now it's because bans can be quite short by design.
And nice avatar. It really highlights your lack of bias on this.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Whether or not that original accusation on Reddit was true or not, the mod who made that reply is either a naive idiot or he's attempting some seriously incompetent CYA. I hope police detective isn't his day job.

 

[Lupin the Third]

As I said in the other thread:

All your links are dead. Banned users? Deleted posts?

 

[Drachma]

Dude's story sounded like so much horse shit to start with, but there was reason to take it seriously after some of the things the mods on here had been stating about some of the Juniors... er... no wait... the juniors are fine. No reason to think them suspicious hahaha... ha...

Basically right troll at the right time.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

So, some guy claimed to walk into MS headquarters and sees people waging a social campaign at the front desk and talking about it in public? Seems legit. Do I have to show up to all these threads to ask if someone is questioning the merits of the claim?

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

i remember back when digg.com was still somewhat decent, there was a mob of reddit users in the comments section of each story going off about how much digg sucked and how they posted the stories before digg, blah blah, etc.

even if there aren't any astroturfers on reddit for MS, (they are everywhere, so it's unlikely there are none on there) they got fooled and it only reinforces my desire to steer clear of that site.

 

[DaBoss]

Title is misleading. Reddit Moderators confirm that post about astroturfing is is BULLSHIT, but does not deny astroturfing does occur.

 

[YouEnjoyMySelf]

That guys story read like one big lie.

Definitely is happening though, on reddit, GAF and any other relevant site.

 

[Taruranto]

Man, i bet 4chan is having a blast right now, they hate Reddit so much.

 

[nib95]

Might be harder to tell on reddit, as you can make accounts without even needing an email account. So probably harder to track down.

Well there you go. Impossible to tell then really.

 

[Zeroth]

Title is misleading. Reddit Moderators confirm that post about astroturfing is is BULLSHIT, but does not deny astroturfing does occur.

Actually....

8.Let's also look at it from a pragmatic standpoint. If Microsoft was trying to manipulate /r/gaming, they're certainly not doing it effectively. Ever since the XBox One was revealed, the commentary on it in this community has been universally negative. Our entire front page, for the last 24 hours, has consisted entirely of memes making fun of Microsoft and the XBox One.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Bish has confirmed them on neogaf. They are on reddit.

The only thing unconfirmed is in house astroturfing and and or how much man power is behind outsourced astroturfing in reaction to the public.

 

[Lasdrub]

So, some guy claimed to walk into MS headquarters and sees people waging a social campaign at the front desk and talking about it in public? Seems legit. Do I have to show up to all these threads to ask if someone is questioning the merits of the claim?

Here's the story as I read it. It seems possible.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Reddit-Xbox-One-Reputation-Management-upvote-downvote,23014.html

The one thing that doesn't make sense to me is that contractors would be doing this rather than MS. The contractors wouldn't be at MS HQ.

 

[DaBoss]

Actually....

That doesn't deny what I said though. There is astroturfing occurring on NeoGAF too (according to bish), but it definitely isn't being done effectively either.

 

[Cynar]

And yet taking a newly created account's word on Reddit as gospel is somehow better?

You'd have to be seriously inept to not even be able to recognize this. I don't think you need to see a post from a new reddit user to realize that the astroturfers are already there.

 

[Zeroth]

That doesn't deny what I said though. There is astroturfing occurring on NeoGAF too, but it definitely isn't being done effectively either.

His previous 7 points were there to prove the original post wasn't true, but this 8th point is not related to that argumentation. It exists solely to discredit the claim it's possible to have astroturfers.

 

[Delusibeta]

Title is misleading. Reddit Moderators confirm that post about astroturfing is is BULLSHIT, but does not deny astroturfing does occur.

In the end, no, we're not being manipulated by Microsoft.

I dunno, he rules out Microsoft astroturfing, which we all know is an incorrect statement.

 

[Eric C]

Bish has confirmed them on neogaf. They are on reddit.

yep.

The other day, Opiate, in different thread even confirmed that Sony astroturfers have been banned on NeoGAF.

So astroturfers are real, and it's not just a Microsoft thing.