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Reddit rumor: Insomniac almost worked on Conker reboot, Banjo + PD reboot in 2016/17

Salty Hippo

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The rumour says Banjo/PD in 2016/17, that would have to mean PD is still in development and Ken Lobb has quashed that, the rumour serves no purpose is 2/3 of it doesnt exist.

The rumor doesn't say that PD is currently in development, only that it was planned alongside Conker and Banjo back in the spring of 2014. If Conker was scraped, Perfect Dark could have been as well. Ken Lobb's recent comment would fit in that scenario.
 

chadskin

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May 27, 2013
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Well then... that answers that. :p

Laugh all you want, Knack outsold Super Mario 3D World in the UK. :p
 

Timu

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This is the last comment I will make in a Rare thread prior to E3:

1) if there ever was a chance old-school Rare fans will be satisfied with current Rare-work, this time is this year.
2) that rumor has two legit and one wrong points, which leads me to the impression he just guessed. I don't know for sure tho. Things can change pretty fast in this industry so I can't make a final comment on this one.
3) Classic Rare IPs will return. Yes, more than just Killer Instinct.
4) If you guys aren't somewhat satisfied after E3 .... Kill me with fire.
...Why does E3 have to be so far away???

Perfect Dark outsourced to the team that made Deus Ex: Human Revolution, please!
Day one buy!!!
 

Wozman23

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Well that's a misleading thread title. I have never heard of such a game being talked about here. If it's true (I have no idea), they probably asked Ted, Ted said no, and that was that.

Saying we are not interested though does not equate to "almost worked on" something.

I'm sure Ted has turned down a ton of games in the past. None of which we "almost worked on".

Thanks, vitti. This was exactly what I would have guessed. As much as it'd be cool to see Insomniac work on Conker, they've got enough irons in the fire and would probably rather develop their own IP.

As I've said in the past, these old franchises need to be given to up-and-coming indie developers.
 

Amir0x

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Oct 27, 2004
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Honestly I am still lost as to the fervor over Conker. Playing it today, it's like passable gameplay married to like a host of late 90s dated humour that by no means stands the test of time. It's like the videogame equivalent of Epic Movie or some shit, just endless pop culture references with a dirty mouth. So if this is true, I think Insomniac dodged a bullet at least on that one :p

I'd like to see a new Banjo game, but done in the style of the old ones... none of this experimental car building stuff. If we could get a new Banjo game with less focus on endlessly collecting stuff and more focus on compelling open 3D platforming challenges I'd be game.
 

Gambit 1138

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Cobb already said a new PD game is not happening right now but he would love to do something with it in the future
 

shaowebb

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If any of that was true I'd turn down a contract to make a title with such a short development time. Thats a good way to lose a shit ton of money and market credibility...especially on a reboot which older fans will be super critical of.

Right idea for a developer but a really stupid idea to try and do such a project so fast and force that responsibility on anyone.
 

stn

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Jun 15, 2012
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Here's hoping PD is still in the works. Its not even that hard to make it great, just copy the Deus-Ex formula and add the same multiplayer that the first used to have. Of course, throw in mission objectives as well.
 
Apr 13, 2014
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This is the last comment I will make in a Rare thread prior to E3:

1) if there ever was a chance old-school Rare fans will be satisfied with current Rare-work, this time is this year.
2) that rumor has two legit and one wrong points, which leads me to the impression he just guessed. I don't know for sure tho. Things can change pretty fast in this industry so I can't make a final comment on this one.
3) Classic Rare IPs will return. Yes, more than just Killer Instinct.
4) If you guys aren't somewhat satisfied after E3 .... Kill me with fire.

Neat. So Banjo ultra confirmed.
Also.
I still remember your Halo Guardians Invasion 10 teasing. I'm looking forward to that.
 

Zok310

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Apr 29, 2013
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If true I would by an XB1 just to play their version of the BK universe.
 

Toski

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The only way I see a Perfect Dark reboot coming is if they were to move the Project Shanghai or whatever it was called from Black Tusk to Rare. If MS were to contract Insomniac to work on an old Rare IP than the only thing I can see them doing is Jet Force Gemini.
 

Dragonborn

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MS rushing stuff out? Wouldn't surprise me at all if it were true

It would have been rather hypocritical of Insomniac to take the job anyways what with their whole "we want to own our own IP" thing they've been doing
 

Salty Hippo

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Honestly I am still lost as to the fervor over Conker. Playing it today, it's like passable gameplay married to like a host of late 90s dated humour that by no means stands the test of time. It's like the videogame equivalent of Epic Movie or some shit, just endless pop culture references with a dirty mouth. So if this is true, I think Insomniac dodged a bullet at least on that one :p

Is that really the best way to judge the game? To say 15 years later that the gameplay and the humor haven't aged well? Seriously?

There is fervor because the game was fucking great at the time and it was totally different from anything else, like, ever. And we'd love to see a new great platformer with fresh gameplay and updated humor/references. It's not really rocket science.
 

Salty Hippo

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BTW the Reddit poster (supposedly) answered some questions on the RWP Forums. Take this with a HUGE grain of salt as there is no way right now to confirm if he's even the same guy. And especially now that he appears to be unverified by Reddit.

Edit: confirmed by RWP that it's the same guy from Reddit, at least.

Here are the questions:

Is there any reason (that you know of) why Rare "DEFINITELY" wasn't going to make Conker? Is it because Microsoft doesn't trust in their abilities or because they were too busy (which I doubt, since they had just finished KSR)?

A little of column A and a little of column B. Most of what we know as Rare isn't the same Rare from the N64 days, a lot of the key players left. With that said, Rare is a talented group of people, but with the Conker reboot they weren't sure Rare was up to the challenge. They thought Insomniac would've been a better fit to get a product out by the end of the year.

1. Was the development time the only thing that made Insomniac refuse? Like, would it have been a done deal had MS offered more time?

1. I can't say why Insomniac refused the deal exactly, because I wasn't in the room when they turned down the deal and wasn't important enough to be filled in to that length. The short time frame was the only reason I was given, and I imagine it was the deciding factor. As for whether or not a deal could've been made if MS had given them more time... I asked why that wasn't an option and the reason given was because the 2015 deadline was too important.

2. Do you know what exactly was Microsoft's angle when they demanded Conker to be out by 2015? How exactly would that have helped other Rare IP? Why not start reintroducing these franchises with Banjo, for instance?

2. Conker would've been the soft push to getting these old Rare IPs out the door, particularly Banjo. Banjo was something that MS wasn't ready to tackle just yet, and the development of that and Perfect Dark really depended on Conker. Conker seemed like the easiest game to develop because A) Banjo was going to be facing huge fan expectations and MS wanted to know if Insomniac could handle it with Conker and B) Perfect Dark was lower on the priority list because the shooter market has become oversaturated recently. I mean, nothing was set in stone, it's not like the order was always going to be: Conker, then Banjo, then PD, but Conker was always going to take the lead.

3. Was there any talk of a Battletoads game, or any other Rare IP that they thought had potential in the future? Blast Corps, Jet Force Gemini, Kameo, Viva Piñata, or any other.

3. Blast Corps is a big no, JFG never had anything serious in the works, Kameo no, Battletoads and Viva Piñata?.... :)

do you know anything else about the plans for the Banjo game other than a scheduled release date? If so, spill the beans.

With Banjo nothing was set in stone aside from that it was going to be a reboot, and that it wasn't going to be as a radical departure from the originals like Nuts and Bolts was.

- Kampfheld on Neogaf mentioned that you were right on 2 things, wrong in 1. And he said you probably took a guess on that thing that you are supposedly wrong about. Can you imagine what is the thing he's thinking of? Is there anything in particular on your Reddit post that you feel you took a long shot at?

I'm pretty damn sure that everything I said in the Reddit post was accurate. The only thing I can think of may've been the comment on how they were planning a PD reboot for 2016/2017. The word "planning" made it sound like PD was 100% confirmed for that release date when that isn't really the case. I haven't worked at MS in a little while, so it's possible he's referring to something that's either changed, or I couldn't possibly know about.

- When exactly did you leave MS, and before you left did you manage to catch a glimpse for what Rare is working on themselves? Is it a new IP? Is it Kinect? Is it HoloLens? Do you know anything at all about what those guys are actually working on?

I don't want to put a date on it, but it was before the new year.

As for what Rare was working on, I don't want to spill all the beans. I've actually been really frustrated with a lot of things while I was working at MS so I don't mind talking about that stuff. With Rare, I was on good terms with them, so I'd rather leave their surprises be... you'll appreciate it more that way, trust me.

I really don't see why he would waste his time like this, and Kampf said he was right on 2 out of 3 things, so I'm inclined to believe he's legit even with the unverified status. But that's just my gut, as I said take this with a huge grain of salt, these are not supposed to be news or facts.

Source: http://www.therwp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53914&page=2
 

Amir0x

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Is that really the best way to judge the game? To say 15 years later that the gameplay and the humor haven't aged well? Seriously?

There is fervor because the game was fucking great at the time and it was totally different from anything else, like, ever. And we'd love to see a new great platformer with fresh gameplay and updated humor/references. It's not really rocket science.

I mean for this game it is, since part of its allure is its comedy. Truly great comedy stands the test of time, it doesn't simply rely on reams of pop culture references to function. The jokes resonate no matter when you watch it. The type of comedy Conker aspired to seemed to be the same that exists in the Epic Movie example I mentioned. It's just feels like really cheap laughs, grabbing the nearest reference point and making a dodgy riff on it. You've got Alien parody, you've got Matrix parody, you've got Saving Private Ryan parody. You've got a shit mountain that sings songs, ha ha. I mean it's bottom of the barrel stuff.

So the gameplay isn't that good to begin with, and then the humour itself doesn't hold up for me... thus the belief Insomniac dodged a bullet if this rumour is true. They're better than Conker :p
 

Odrion

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Aug 31, 2005
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I mean for this game it is, since part of its allure is its comedy. Truly great comedy stands the test of time, it doesn't simply rely on reams of pop culture references to function. The jokes resonate no matter when you watch it. The type of comedy Conker aspired to seemed to be the same that exists in the Epic Movie example I mentioned. It's just feels like really cheap laughs, grabbing the nearest reference point and making a dodgy riff on it. You've got Alien parody, you've got Matrix parody, you've got Saving Private Ryan parody. You've got a shit mountain that sings songs, ha ha. I mean it's bottom of the barrel stuff.

So the gameplay isn't that good to begin with, and then the humour itself doesn't hold up for me... thus the belief Insomniac dodged a bullet if this rumour is true. They're better than Conker :p

Imagine what Conker 201X would've referenced, imagine what percentage of the jokes would've been purely Breaking Bad references.
 

Dr. Feel Good

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Jun 13, 2006
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I mean for this game it is, since part of its allure is its comedy. Truly great comedy stands the test of time, it doesn't simply rely on reams of pop culture references to function. The jokes resonate no matter when you watch it. The type of comedy Conker aspired to seemed to be the same that exists in the Epic Movie example I mentioned. It's just feels like really cheap laughs, grabbing the nearest reference point and making a dodgy riff on it. You've got Alien parody, you've got Matrix parody, you've got Saving Private Ryan parody. You've got a shit mountain that sings songs, ha ha. I mean it's bottom of the barrel stuff.

So the gameplay isn't that good to begin with, and then the humour itself doesn't hold up for me... thus the belief Insomniac dodged a bullet if this rumour is true. They're better than Conker :p

I'm confused. Your alluding to what made the game great was the comedy aspect, the gameplay is really what made the game a shit ton of fun, and that still holds up.
 

Amir0x

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I'm confused. Your alluding to what made the game great was the comedy aspect, the gameplay is really what made the game a shit ton of fun, and that still holds up.

I said it was part of its allure. But I certainly never thought of Conker as one of the stand out platformers of that generation though. I mean N64 alone had many many better ones, Conker had camera issues and some segments were really gimmicky and mostly it was just uneven I thought. That's just my opinion though.
 

Salty Hippo

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I think the humor is a fairly small part of the allure. Certainly not more important than the gameplay, which was great back then and holds up pretty well today. There's a variety there that few games offer, let alone 3D platformers. Just out of the top of my head you have traditional platforming, you shoot dual uzis, you shotgun zombies, you ride bulls and dinosaurs, you fly as a bat, you ride the lava on a surfboard, you have tons of context sensitive situations that are specific to each moment, etc.
 

Wubbys

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Was chris seavor attached to the alleged new conker project? If not they might as well leave it alone. Happy 14th anniversary to conker :).
 

il Diavolo

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So based on that interview (assuming the source is legit) Viva Pinata might also make a comeback?

Oh baby.
 

Dr. Feel Good

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I said it was part of its allure. But I certainly never thought of Conker as one of the stand out platformers of that generation though. I mean N64 alone had many many better ones, Conker had camera issues and some segments were really gimmicky and mostly it was just uneven I thought. That's just my opinion though.

Fair enough. But you can't be all the surprised people want to see a revival considering the impact at the time. I loved the original and the remake, and still ranks in my top 10 of all time. I would love to see the series return. Just like I'd love to see a return of 3D Rayman, Banjo, Rocket on Wheels, etc. etc.
 

Salty Hippo

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So based on that interview (assuming the source is legit) Viva Pinata might also make a comeback?

Oh baby.

That game would make a ton of sense as a Hololens game. He said "you'll appreciate it more if it's a surprise", which makes me think that if it leaked right now that Rare is working on a Hololens game, people would flip the fuck out in anger and hate it before they even know what it is.

Just a feeling I had, could be totally wrong.
 

KnightHart

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Well, right now the entire thing feels iffy, but not completely out of the question

It feels like something that we'll know the complete truth about after E3, or by the end of this year. I'm not necessarily excited about a new Conker game per se, but I am excited about Microsoft taking more risks with new IP's outside of Halo, Forza, and maybe Gears of War.
 

Quadraphonic

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It's believable only because of Microsoft and their fixed timeline.

For things like this they want to strike fast and they will find developers to get shit out by Christmas time. One company I know lost an MS project when they steadfastly refused to rush a game for Christmas.
 

-MD-

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Was chris seavor attached to the alleged new conker project? If not they might as well leave it alone. Happy 14th anniversary to conker :).

The only thing Seavor's name has been attached to as far as Conker goes lately is voicing him for Project Spark.

I'd like to think if they bothered to bring him back for that they'd ask him to voice Conker for the game as well though.
 

Dr. Feel Good

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It's believable only because of Microsoft and their fixed timeline.

For things like this they want to strike fast and they will find developers to get shit out by Christmas time. One company I know lost an MS project when they steadfastly refused to rush a game for Christmas.

And we know what happened with MCC.
 

Salty Hippo

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For what it's worth, RWP just confirmed that the guy who answered those questions is the same guy from Reddit. So that's that.
 

Sydle

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BTW the Reddit poster (supposedly) answered some questions on the RWP Forums. Take this with a HUGE grain of salt as there is no way right now to confirm if he's even the same guy. And especially now that he appears to be unverified by Reddit.

Edit: confirmed by RWP that it's the same guy from Reddit, at least.

Here are the questions:



I really don't see why he would waste his time like this, and Kampf said he was right on 2 out of 3 things, so I'm inclined to believe he's legit even with the unverified status. But that's just my gut, as I said take this with a huge grain of salt, these are not supposed to be news or facts.

Source: http://www.therwp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53914&page=2

Viva Piñata! :O

I want to believe this one, because Rare services it, Banjo, and Battletoads a lot on their Twitter. They also just released a long overdue tepid seat for the VP team. They also had a horstachio on their Xmas card a couple years ago.

I'm going to be so happy if I get VP, Banjo, and Battletoads over the next 24 months.

I'm surprised at the hard no to Blastcorps. Seems like the perfect type of game to show off their cloud compute capabilities and destruction.
 

LordBaztion

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Asuming its true, I'm glad Insomniac to be strong enough to say no to a rushed project. Also glad to see there is a strong relationship between MS and Insomniac.
 
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The only thing Seavor's name has been attached to as far as Conker goes lately is voicing him for Project Spark.

I'd like to think if they bothered to bring him back for that they'd ask him to voice Conker for the game as well though.

I believe Seavor said that he wouldn't curse in a game again, though.
 

Durock

Member
So assuming it is all legit, it's looking like Banjo, Viva Piñata, Battletoads and Conker are probably coming. I wonder which ones are being outsourced? I think Banjo and Battetloads are in-house and Conker outsourced. No idea on Viva Piñata.
 

Salty Hippo

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So assuming it is all legit, it's looking like Banjo, Viva Piñata, Battletoads and Conker are probably coming. I wonder which ones are being outsourced? I think Banjo and Battetloads are in-house and Conker outsourced. No idea on Viva Piñata.

I think Rare is definitely working on a new IP. It's what Spencer wanted, he said it numerous times. And if VP has anything to do with Hololens, that's also Rare because they have some guys over there who are really big on technology, like Nick Burton. So my guess is that Banjo and Battletoads are being outsourced. Press Play and WayForward, respectively.

No Conker for now, I think.
 

-MD-

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I think Rare is definitely working on a new IP. It's what Spencer wanted, he said it numerous times. And if VP has anything to do with Hololens, that's also Rare because they have some guys over there who are really big on technology, like Nick Burton. So my guess is that Banjo and Battletoads are being outsourced. Press Play and WayForward, respectively.

No Conker for now, I think.

I highly doubt Banjo is being outsourced, especially with Gregg Mayles still being at Rare.
 

Gambit 1138

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I'm positive RARE has Banjo Kazooie and Battletoads in the pipeline and are brainstorming a new IP as well
 

Yoshi

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Is that really the best way to judge the game? To say 15 years later that the gameplay and the humor haven't aged well? Seriously?

I say yes, it is fair. Truly great games are great no matter if you play them on release date or 20 years later. It's superficial crap that is deemed "aging badly". Conker is a really well-made platformer with a lot of variety that is still well-made. The humour may not be absolutely timeless and I agree that its impact may very well be partially lost over time, yet Conker, even completely without its humour, still stays a very good game. Though I'd have said Banjo-Kazooie was the best game of 2014 if it released in 2014 unchanged and with the rest of 2014 unchanged, too, so maybe I'm just weird.

Regarding the questions answered: If he was legit and nothing was set in stone at that time, then having Banjo at E3 seems rather unlikely. But at least, if he was right regarding Conker and Banjo and Conker was not being made by Insomniac, that would make me plenty happy. Insomniac is awful at platforming imo. The only true platformers they made, Spryo 1-3 are super weak Banjo-clones that didn't even get the basic design principles of Banjo right and their later games in the Ratchet franchise are arcady TPS way more than platformers (and bad at the platforming they do have). They might be able to do a good job an JFG, but not on Conker and definitely not on Banjo.
 

Feindflug

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I dont believe the OP info for a second (ive seen Kampfs post too)

Ken Lobb already said PD wasnt in development.
Insomniac want to own their own IPs
I refuse to believe after Crackdown 2 that MS would be so stupid as to rush it out. If they were so desperate to make and release a Conker game quickly and on the cheap then just port the OG Xbox version over, add in the stuff they censored and then sell it on the Xbox One store for $20.

That's what I was thinking too, Crackdown 2's short dev time especially was a big mistake and Spencer seems to agree with that (at least according to his twitter responses).

As you said a Conker L&R port to the Xbone would be a better and cheaper way to bring back the IP than releasing a new half baked Conker game, having a 15e price point or even be a GwG title would be a good choice.
 

oldergamer

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It seems odd to me, says he didn't want to put a date on it, but clearly puts himself in a specific place or time and posts a snippit of an e-mail discussion? MS will figure out who this is and cause trouble for them.
 

CrazyArcadia

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It holds up like rewatching Scary Movie or something holds up. Some of the jokes are still funny, most of the references are dated and mean nothing to people who weren't part of that zeitgeist.

I agree and think the zeitgeist might be the main reason why it would be better not to reintroduce a new Conker. I'm a huge fan of the N64 original and the Xbox version was already missing some of the charme (though it is not bad at all). Of course I'd like a new Conker, but it's too late probably.

The time when Conker released and the platform it was on was crucial to Conker becoming a cult hit. You had the N64 with all the cutesy platform games and an audience who most probably at least played some of them (overlapping with the Rare fans of that time who knew their Banjo Kazzoie and Donkey Kong 64). When Conker hit shelves, the N64 was already on its way out and a big part of the audience was now getting older/late teens/early 20s. So Conker being a more mature parody on gameplay and story tropes from other platform games and also being full of pop-cultural references worked perfectly at that particular point in time with that particular audience. In a way it felt like a perfect swan song for the N64, taking it to the limits and reminding the now older audience, jokingly, of gameplay and story tropes of that era. That actually includes "mascot animals jump n run" games from the whole 90s era. (In that regard, IMO it is similiar to the underground comics of the 70s, 80s, 90s like Fritz the Cat and the like but that's another story)

This aspect of "genre parody" was a direct part of Conkers gameplay and why it worked and was a fun experience. It still is a good game for that audience, and that audience also gets all the popcultural references to movies and games alike. So it would be nice to have it playable as a digital game again, sure. (Also for testing the waters with new audiences who got into gaming in the Xbox 360 generation).

But the "genre parody" aspect will be mostly lost on a big part of Microsofts current (last 10 years or so) audience. So that's a gamble. Obviously, pop-cultural movie and music references can be refreshed - I mean, there are enough new movies to parody released in the last 15 years. Though that might nevertheless drastically change the tone and lead to old fans of 90s/early 2000s Conker not caring for the reboot. (look what happened to Beavis & Butthead after their recent reboot). In a way, a Conker reboot could work if it would be the kind of parody to the 3rd Person cinematic Action/Shooter genre which it was to the Jump n Run genre back on the N64. But again, old fans would probably hate it for that since it wouldn't be "old Conker" anymore.

It's a difficult game in that regard and I believe Conker fans should probably just see the original as a one-shot amazing-cool game, replay that and move on (myself included).

The short dev cycle wouldn't have helped AT ALL to make a worthy sequel and so I understand Insomniac and others not taking the chance. Especially Insomniac, who probably get what made the original game work at the time of its release and knew it would take lots of critical thinking and effort to successfully take Conker into the late 2010s.
 

Leyasu

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Ah man, just the thought of banjo and PD coming back is great! Damn you e3 being so far away