LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
People really are passionate about this game.
It must truly be people's Density.
It must truly be people's Density.
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Reddit: The gutting of Destiny's story
- Thread starter Imru al-Qays
- Start date
I don't think Infinite's story was changed that much, it was the gameplay that was scaled back a lot.
All this story talk is missing the point, there really isn't a story in Destiny. We get one fucking scene when we enter the reef that just barely gives a story cutscene, then nothing.
Actually I forgot, there is a brief scene with the speaker at the beginning, and very brief scenes with the exo girl.
It's insane.
Actually I forgot, there is a brief scene with the speaker at the beginning, and very brief scenes with the exo girl.
It's insane.
Jinjo
Member
I know how it's supposed to be perceived and that it's the formal way to address a king or queen, but the whole prerelease comments that the game's story has "GoT influences", which in my view is alluding to political struggles for power, and then to find it's just this awkward scene. Just makes the whole thing laughable to me personally.
And it's not only GoT, I believe they made referenced to Star Wars etc. Which, let's be honest, is just Bungie riding its own dick a little bit too much, knowing how it turned out.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Halo is one of the few gaming IPs that have a series of novels. People discuss the lore- not to bitch about it, but to actually discuss it.
The games follow a cryptic but consistent narrative. It wasn't fragmented or full of holes.
If Halo is indeed a low bar, then the discussion of stories in video games is not worth having.
Well I could follow why I was going where and where I was doing what and how pretty well. It WASN'T presented in an amazing way but I always knew why I was where.
Especially when just going with the main story missions and not the side missions, which usually have their own little subplot or a "day in the life of a guardian" plot.
Mister_Bubbles
Member
What do you mean by that last part?
He thinks that during the archive mission when the computer says "welcome dr so and so" that that is you being adressed by the computer, when it's probably just whatever access code the ghost used to get in there being recognized.
Yeah this is what I thought to. I didn't even question it.
CyclopsRock
Member
Heh. I don't like the fact that there are facts - such as the old video showing areas that are no longer in the game, though obviously this isn't actually that unusual - interspersed with mad shit like "Along with Bungie's Lead Writer departing for unknown reasons, we can't forget about Marty O'Donnell being fired too. We're all aware that the situation had to do with salary, but when Marty left, there was a clear bitterness between him and Bungie. Bungie had changed, and the lead writer had recognized it too. Was it Activision? Probably. But we're not being told the full story and I don't expect us to find out unfortunately."
PROBABLY.
PROBABLY.
Mister_Bubbles
Member
Ah. Yeah, that is obviously the login credentials of someone who worked at the place.
I still think that the game the descion makers made is the game they wanted. That is, a highly tuned shooter with a tiny story, few cutscenes, and vanilla wow loot grinding/raiding mechanics.
There are many people who hate videogame stories and cutscenes and do not want them in their games. Likewise, there are many who had some real epic gaming moments in WoW and want to create games where that can happen for others. I think combining those two gamedesign principles into a single game produced destiny. It wasn't a product of evil activison or crunch.
* * *
On a more personal note, I never thought I would need a story to enjoy a game. But I think I do. Borderlands 2 gave me plenty of reasons to shoot things (114 sidequests, 26 main story missions), and I played that game for almost 200 hours according to Steam. It was fun and satisfying.
In Destiny, shooting was at least as good as BL2, but Destiny gave me no reason to shoot things, and so I did not enjoy it. It felt like busywork in school, pointless and unrewarding. But that is just a personal preference, like strawberry ice cream. I really do not enjoy strawberry ice cream, but millions do and I'd never say that strawberry ice cream is objectively bad.
Destiny is a great, highly polished game with no unnecessary story or cutscenes to get in the way. I do understand why some people really enjoy the game, and why the designers designed it this way. I just prefer vanilla bean ice cream.
There are many people who hate videogame stories and cutscenes and do not want them in their games. Likewise, there are many who had some real epic gaming moments in WoW and want to create games where that can happen for others. I think combining those two gamedesign principles into a single game produced destiny. It wasn't a product of evil activison or crunch.
* * *
On a more personal note, I never thought I would need a story to enjoy a game. But I think I do. Borderlands 2 gave me plenty of reasons to shoot things (114 sidequests, 26 main story missions), and I played that game for almost 200 hours according to Steam. It was fun and satisfying.
In Destiny, shooting was at least as good as BL2, but Destiny gave me no reason to shoot things, and so I did not enjoy it. It felt like busywork in school, pointless and unrewarding. But that is just a personal preference, like strawberry ice cream. I really do not enjoy strawberry ice cream, but millions do and I'd never say that strawberry ice cream is objectively bad.
Destiny is a great, highly polished game with no unnecessary story or cutscenes to get in the way. I do understand why some people really enjoy the game, and why the designers designed it this way. I just prefer vanilla bean ice cream.
Something to think about as well....the Vault of Glass? The very first endgame raid?
It has zero Dinklebot exposition. None. The only thing he says the entire time are variations of "Guardian Down". That's it. No intro descriptor, no mid-mission chatter, nothing.
It's you and your buds on the mics. That's it.
It has zero Dinklebot exposition. None. The only thing he says the entire time are variations of "Guardian Down". That's it. No intro descriptor, no mid-mission chatter, nothing.
It's you and your buds on the mics. That's it.
Is this true?Mejilan said:
PanicFreak
Member
The worst part of this all is that I think those two problems are solved through the DLC packs.
Especially since in that mission you literally go to a place to get the login data earlier.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Almost all the trailers and even the reveal focused on the story heavily. If they wanted a half baked loot game then they would of focused way more on those mechanics and multiplayer and Co op stuff. Rather than showing trailers that consisted of pure story. Some of which didn't even appear in the final game.
Yeah I should have said presentation of the story.
Either way, coming from Bungie's previous work, something is very wrong.
I think I have/had very different expectations to most of you. I didn't even pay much attention during the cut scenes. They're just a means to slow down the gameplay as far as I'm concerned. This is an FPS that is focused on obtaining loot, playing PVP and/or playing missions with friends. Everything else is secondary IMO. The perceived lack of story or removal of story is completely irrelevant to me personally and I find it strange that some people would allow it to prevent them from enjoying the game whose core gameplay is very good.
I did roll my eyes a bit at this scene -- that was a fairly significant oversight for them to not acknowledge it.
I did roll my eyes a bit at this scene -- that was a fairly significant oversight for them to not acknowledge it.
JetBlackPanda
Member
What is the implications of this?
It's funny him a way how many aspects of the game from marketing and PR seem to take their cues from big, dumb summer films.
They definaty implied there was more to the plot as you'd experience it no doubt to draw in those looking for something more like Halo. The hope is once they're on board they accept it's a pretty different and stick with the game.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Best ever made.
The core gameplay of the campaign is absolute trash as well, so it's basically a terrible experience all round. 90% of the missions boil down to getting to the waypoint, holding square and then fending off a hoard of enemies for a few minutes. It doesn't help that the campaign is the most logical way of levelling up in the beginning so most people feel like they have to go through it. The first few minutes of the game even baits you into thinking the story will be profound and interesting, or at least try to be.
That's before mentioning how terrible the loot system is in the game.
I don't know honestly. I mean,it is kinda weird that the biggest single piece of content in the game has no narration or story exposition at all (or maybe somewhere in a card/different mission?) but I was just basically surprised that I never noticed.
Gnome Scat
Member
This makes a lot of sense, Staten would never half ass a story. Glad he left.
So you're overleveled, so the levels are easy and that bores you.
Why don't you switch to the hard mode where enemies are 3 levels about the Normal one?
Why do you overlevel if you know it makes the game boring?
Why do you do patrols so much if they're boring and you overlevel due to them? (<- which is the cause of a good chunk of your problems)
If you're overleveled increase the difficulty. Don't grind anymore, just do the story missions, play when you feel like it, do some PvP matches if you feel like it and don't worry for the bounties at this point (if you're already overleveled)
When you reach level 20 there are new difficulty setting where you won't feel as overpowered.
Yup. That E3 2012 trailer with the biggest areas and gameplay posibilities was insane. I'd do nasty things in order to be able to play "that" Bioshock Infinite.
Even if it was controversial (in GAF, not press since they gave it high scores) I think it's a really good game. A really good game that failed to reach the original in some ways, but that doesn't make it bad on its own.
And subscription based MMOs have problems solved through patches that are released months after the game launch. I don't see the problem here. People that wanted to kill Arthas in WoW had to resub. People that wanted to go to Uludar had to resub. List goes on.
Their option were probably ask for a monthly fee (which wouldn't work on consoles) or do a DLC program (which is a common practice in consoles).
The problem is not that they left open storylines. It's a common practice in those kind of games. The problem is that the one that they were supposed to "close" was a boring mess with an uninspired ending.
Since we really have no choice but to speculate, here is my personal guess:
Lead writer was told (2013 spring-ish) to simplify the story. Rework it, shorten it (whatever) simplify cause there was just no time / way to implement the story he was trying to tell (had spend years writing) via a string of kill missions. That vision, his story, years in the making, was not going to be told. Destiny Project had kicked into "get it shipped" mode. Kill the romance, get the shootbang complete, stitch the missions together so it goes out the door Fall 2014. Period.
All these years with Bungie, and working on Destiny, and the finish line is in sight to witness the culmination of 4 years of dedication to the creative process... to creating Destiny's universe, lore, story... annnnd he just ups and quits.. "F this I'm out!".
When his game, his baby, is so close to being done. Why bail on your game at this point?
Because (I'm guessing) it was really no longer his story in the game. The Vision was being chopped up, and sections hastily attached to fit whatever world levels were already done. All the intricacy of the story was being removed. It had to be. Either he retools it (ie removes it) or someone else will. Cause nothing stops this train.
My guess is telling that whole story at launch would require way way way more levels and in game cut scenes, expository, voice acting, and planets and areas etc than they had the time or budget to build and test and complete, before a looming drop dead date.
So he was told to butcher his story and make it fit into 20 or so kill quests that would ship as "the game".
Just my guess. Winded, as it may be.
Having played and 'beaten' the game (then traded in the game less than 2 weeks later), I really wonder what went wrong with this. Based on the cut content and just going by the E3 2013 trailer/reveal, Destiny that we saw then looked like a completely fun game. What's especially irritating from then to now is how the people playing the demo onstage got an Exotic weapon in the first five minutes. The final game, it took people days to get one. I realize that's not really fair, but that seems to be the expectations that were set. Play the game, the story comes to life through your interactions and findings, get excellent loot.
A different publisher would have delayed Destiny until it was right and fit more in line with the demo. I would have been fine with Destiny being delayed and released in 2015 (or even 2016). Just as long as the final game I would have received was a lot of fun to play.
So I think a lot of Destiny's bungled development should be blamed on Bungie and on Activision. Someone at Activision obviously thought the game was fine to be released and just saw the dollar signs, not the soul and craftsmanship. Someone at Bungie thought that they shouldn't even bring up delaying the game at all. Again, this is speculation on my part.
I also think if there's any game that needs a "Director's Cut" version, it's Destiny. Bungie shouldn't release a Destiny 2. They should release a "Realm Reborn: Destiny" or a director's cut version that was what the final game should have been. Given what happened, they should release it for free, but I know better than to think that. May as well do it as a cash grab than a better version, right Activision?
But who knows -- Blizzard (mostly) corrected matters with Diablo 3 and maybe the same thing can happen with Destiny; although in this case, it'll be a much greater distance to cover than fixing the loot system. You can't just patch in a better story.
A different publisher would have delayed Destiny until it was right and fit more in line with the demo. I would have been fine with Destiny being delayed and released in 2015 (or even 2016). Just as long as the final game I would have received was a lot of fun to play.
So I think a lot of Destiny's bungled development should be blamed on Bungie and on Activision. Someone at Activision obviously thought the game was fine to be released and just saw the dollar signs, not the soul and craftsmanship. Someone at Bungie thought that they shouldn't even bring up delaying the game at all. Again, this is speculation on my part.
I also think if there's any game that needs a "Director's Cut" version, it's Destiny. Bungie shouldn't release a Destiny 2. They should release a "Realm Reborn: Destiny" or a director's cut version that was what the final game should have been. Given what happened, they should release it for free, but I know better than to think that. May as well do it as a cash grab than a better version, right Activision?
But who knows -- Blizzard (mostly) corrected matters with Diablo 3 and maybe the same thing can happen with Destiny; although in this case, it'll be a much greater distance to cover than fixing the loot system. You can't just patch in a better story.
IAmRandom31
Banned
The main problem with the story is that this is basically just the Prologue.
I mean the game had more story missions, strikes and Raid DLC announced before it even came out. Hell we knew going in it was a 10 year project with numbers releases every other year or something like that.
So yeh ... this is Destiny Part 1 of 5 I guess you could say. With additional story missions and such coming at various times each year in between the numbered major releases.
In this story, we learned about the various enemy races and
And the end of the game makes no qualm about letting you know its " just beginning "
I mean the game had more story missions, strikes and Raid DLC announced before it even came out. Hell we knew going in it was a 10 year project with numbers releases every other year or something like that.
So yeh ... this is Destiny Part 1 of 5 I guess you could say. With additional story missions and such coming at various times each year in between the numbered major releases.
In this story, we learned about the various enemy races and
awoke the Traveller and destroyed the thing that was stopping the Traveller from healing
And the end of the game makes no qualm about letting you know its " just beginning "
It could mean a lot, but....
It means Dinklage either had no script to voice for the Vault of Glass because they had no idea what it was about or they're not using what he voiced. Either way, it's bizarre given every single other mission and strike prior to this one.
It means we have no in-game reason for even going here beyond loot. The loot that drops does indicate a Guardian named Kabr went there and had bad things happen to him....but that's about it.
It means when we defeat the Vault of Glass, we have no summation of what we achieved. Atheon is defeated, yay? I guess? GIMME THE LOOTS.
What I think it means is fairly simple and, by comparison, fairly innocent, but also bad. It means Vault of Glass was designed outside of canon / story considerations and thus could not be considered for everything else that is normally done with story.
It's not encouraging at all, unfortunately, and this is ignoring the absolute ton of bugs associated with the raid (honestly, the normal version is EASY when properly leveled / geared. Only lag / bugs slow people down). It means they're designing raids without the story being involved which is just....
Weird,
Really, anyone here hates videogame stories? So some people want to be dropped in a game with no reason to do anything? Just shoot and go there for no reason?
Camp Freddie
Member
Nope, they even get this wrong.
Your Grace is for Dukes/Duchesses.
Maybe some high-ranking clergy too (Bishops?)
Kings/Queens are Your Highness.
I think Destiny could become the poster child for, "Hey Developers, why don't you actually hire a writer and involve them in the development of the game?"
It seems like 100% of their effort went into the basic gameplay. At no point did anyone stop to think about the overall experience.
I think we're all going to burn through the content in a couple of months, complete the raid and never play again. It's a fun game, but there's only so many times I can play the same missions.
I doubt the expansions will be popular, since it seems like they're just more "Press X to deploy ghost" with the same areas and enemies that we've already seen. Once you've moved on to another game, it's hard to go back unless their is genuinely new stuff.
I hope someone at Activision has got the Bungie people by the balls and forced them to put some serious extra content in the expansions (such as, a story) rather than just dumping some bosses into King's Reach and RAS-2 and charging $20 to unlock them.
We're on GAF, so mostly, no.
I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that don't give two cents about the story and want to shoot stuff, though.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I know this is 95% speculation, but I think this is the most likely scenario given the facts we do know. The story likely outgrew the amount of content that they could feasibly deliver on ship day, and so they took the axe to it.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
LOL BS ODST had the best campaign/story/characters of the Halo series,
don't compare it to this shit that hardly exists.
I got a better campaign from freaking MW2 and that was only 2 1/2 hours.
while i dont doubt there was some issues pre-launch with cut content and story rewrites, the "evidence" presented is pretty weak.
i want to play in those spaces (reef, forest, concept art areas) though so bad. hopefully one day
i want to play in those spaces (reef, forest, concept art areas) though so bad. hopefully one day
Q
Queen of Hunting
Unconfirmed Member
the way things went down with Marty makes me more inclined to believe shit went down sometime at bungie between leaving microsoft and joining with activision.
joe was at bungie since 1998 and marty 1997 thats two practically founding members leaving/fired within a year of each other.
joe also works at Microsoft on crack down sunset overdrive and scalebound according to his wikipedia page
joe was at bungie since 1998 and marty 1997 thats two practically founding members leaving/fired within a year of each other.
joe also works at Microsoft on crack down sunset overdrive and scalebound according to his wikipedia page
It still feels very odd though that there wasn't even a cut scene attached to every story mission or some such. It could have solved a lot, and that's pretty basic stuff to have gone in the project plan and had manpower attached.
And it's not that they object to cut scenes, because there are some and a few could easily go with little impact.
It just feels like one disc is missing.
and if they objected to cutscenes, the few we have would likely have been skippable...
Actually, every story mission does have a cutscene. The ones that don't are "side missions" that are still labeled as "story" though.
The thing is, Destiny was in development for years. The first references to it were back in 2009. They have also supposedly spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing the game. If they needed to cut a lot of stuff in order to make the deadline then something must have seriously went wrong in the development of this game.
MrAndySchneider
Banned
Of course, you are completely, absolutely right. I know that I spoil my own gaming experience, but I cannot help it. I always used to play games like that. Preparing, gathering the correct gear and then breezing through the level. I used to like it, through. Gives yourself a kind of empowerment. Also, I don't like to miss stuff. I'm the guy who completes every side mission, who looks behind every garbage bin in Bioshock Infinite. When playing Assassin's Creed, I go around and unlock every tower I can find before I tackle the story missions in the are. In AC it's fine. But in Destiny, it doesn't work.
And I just don't feel compelled to continue the story. It's boring! And it's always the same, it doesn't really matter if I go around Old Russia on a patrol or in a story mission. Other games make the story the main experience, and I'm a story/lore focused gamer. Destiny doesn't deliver in this regard. Grinding for gear, playing the same missions over and over again isn't my definition of fun.
The more I write this, and the more I order my thoughts through writing, the more I realize that maybe I just don't like the game.
My fiancee was skeptical about Destiny given its lead-up and how the bits of gameplay showcased seemed to be Halo-esque in physics, but having an overall muted color palette and seemed to be yet another in the long entry of games that had a post-apocalypic setting.
I thought she was being overly critical/cynical and reassured myself "Oh, but it's Bungie, it's going to be a great game." The departure of Joe Staten and then the outright axing of Marty O'Donnell really made me double-take and then eventually sour on this game--call it a gut feeling. And you described it perfectly well why. Why would this happen to two of Bungie's most well-known (and well-tenured) employees right on the cusp of their launch of a massive, epic new IP? All that fomented in my head after thinking about this was, "uh oh, something's not coming out right about Destiny, is it?"
And eventually my fears/concerns were realized. It's still a great concept going forward and it's gameplay mechanics are sound, but the overall execution is just poor, at least for a Triple-A studio like Bungie. And that's really a shame due to how much money (not the $500 mil, but still a lot) were poured into this game's development and all the excellent voice talent just squandered.
Why are we fighting the Cabal? Why are the Cabal fighting the Vex? Why are we fighting The Hive? Why are the Hive fighting the Fallen?
When you ask the speaker what happened to the traveler why does he answer you by saying stuff he COULD talk about? I asked him because I want to know.
Who is The Stranger always talking to?
When asked if we know about the
why does the ghost say "Yah, we've heard the legends." no we haven't! This is the first time i've heard of it. PLEASE EXPLAIN ANYTHING!
FInally, why cant I skip cutscenes on story missions I'm forced to play 100 times?!?!?!
When you ask the speaker what happened to the traveler why does he answer you by saying stuff he COULD talk about? I asked him because I want to know.
Who is The Stranger always talking to?
When asked if we know about the
black garden
FInally, why cant I skip cutscenes on story missions I'm forced to play 100 times?!?!?!
They want to make sure you understand the story, it's a good feature.
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