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Reddit's new CEO posts the new groundrules for the future

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he says he supports kia. honestly, given everything i've seen on that sub, this means he is either a bigot or completely delusional. or both.

What stuff on that sub? I'm still looking and I can't find bigotry, doxing, sexism (unless you count disagreeing with someone sexism) or anything even remotely close to what is /r/coontown. I've been surfing that sub for the last few hours because of what was said about it here and elsewhere. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
 
he says he supports kia. honestly, given everything i've seen on that sub, this means he is either a bigot or completely delusional. or both.

That may be true. He might be a bigot or delusional, or both. But what he says about free speech I think is noteworthy. Hell, I found it even compelling.

Reddit is a private company, however, and at the end of the day they're free to do what they'd like. Of course I'm free to go somewhere else if I don't agree with what they're doing. But I like reddit. I like that it once stood for a place that understood the concept that to be considered a place that stands for open discussion sometimes we have to voluntarily expose ourselves to criticism and speech we don't agree with. That's a core foundation to and the first codified right of our country. It's what separates us as a society from countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt where they jail journalists and bloggers for expressing dissenting opinions. We don't get to choose the dissenting opinions we like to hear. It's either all or none. That's what free speech is all about. It's up to me and you and everyone else to muster up compelling and well sourced arguments based in hard sciences to combat those speech that we know are wrong. That's the mark that makes us different from groups like ISIS. And if a private company doesn't uphold that ideal then why should a government.

I might have said it in a different way but I found a lot of it resonating with my own values regarding free speech.

The last line is complete nonsense though imo.

edit to avoid double:

I particularly liked the reply that got down-voted into oblivion.

https://np.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3djjxw/lets_talk_content_ama/ct5sv4p



Oh, but it's actually about ethics in video-game journalism huh?
Since, he is a veteran with multicultural friends that are different colors, I guess he knows better. Being an avid supporter of that cesspool.

I don't know if supporting a subreddit means supporting everything that goes on there. But sure, like mentioned above, he might be a bigot and all the things you think he is. But I'm more or less pointing out that he says a lot more than just saying he supports KIA and that that reddit shouldn't be on his list of hateful subbreddits.
 
I think Reddit likes to see itself as a collection of loosely linked communities of varying popularity and connectivity, modeling the internet itself. The demand of no tolerance of whatever offensive materials makes me wonder why people, in the same breath, don't demand the same thing of server hosts and internet providers (both of which already "censor" illegal material, from copyright to abuse), since it's pretty much asking and wanting the same thing (if not naturally the "next step" in a hate-free internet). Is it only because it is easier to demand something from a singular entity like Reddit?

The comparison of Reddit to a hosting service provider is disingenuous. Reddit is a set of free tools that are being used as a platform for hate speech, people would otherwise pay lots of money out of pocket to build their own solutions to accomplish the same from scratch.
 
The free speech/censorship issue isn't exclusive to governments.

The consequences of government vs private censorship are so different as to make comparisons useless. When a private entity censors speech, people are still free to engage in that speech in any other location. When a government censors speech, no one can engage in that speech anywhere.
 
That may be true. He might be a bigot or delusional, or both. But what he says about free speech I think is noteworthy. Hell, I found it even compelling.
At the same time, I can argue from a science-based perspective that says that arguing against people's opinions with science-based perspective doesn't work
 
you also can't have real free speech when a subset of your community takes over and harasses anyone they don't like into silence.

Then you need a good moderation on your subreddit to prevent others from posting nonsense. Reddit is an open platform, subreddits aren't. What RL vs r/LoL revealed is that reddit gives unlimited power to subreddit owners to manage their section as they want.

It is not a problem of racist or sexist subreddits, it is the people. Whether they come from another sub or another website, you cannot stop them from doing so by culling on subreddits. Just because you shut down their gather place doesn't mean they will go away: they will find another platform to rally. And then they can seriously mobilize to vote brigade and derail other subs to revenge.

And I agree with you when you say that reddit is a worse place because of there immoral subs. But doing so means that they are moving away from their open platform and that they should stop championing some of those free speech phrases. It doesn't matter to me whether they are doing so to monetize better or to make reddit a friendlier place. Just don't do both (free speech and censorship), because as you say, it is impossible to have both.
 
The thing that's going to kill reddit is the admins trying to fiddle around and monetize AMAs, being flippant about feedback, and letting others take the blame for their shortcomings.

kn0thing has been acting so weird and vile with the whole Victoria thing that it's a wonder he helped create reddit at all.

Almost the exact same set of circumstances led to the exodus from Digg -> reddit a few years ago. Digg sucked, everyone went to reddit in a matter of days.

The same exact thing almost happened, reddit sucked, everyone TRIED to go to voat, but they just couldn't handle the traffic. If people could have surged somewhere else, reddit would be dead right now.

It's not about reddit at all, or their policies, or the site or anything. It's the content that gets aggregated TO the site. If someone else does it better, or reddit shoots itself in the foot, reddit will die.
 
/v/ is complete fucking trash and one of the worst boards on the site. The community revolted when the moderation dared to ask the posters to post on topic during the creation of /vr/, and the board has never really recovered. It basically became a /pol/ style containment board because there isn't much moderation to ensure it becomes anything different.

/vr/ is probably the best place to discuss games on the whole internet, though. Strictly moderated with a great community, though I guess it cuts down on the shit posting tremendously when there's a hard rule against talking about new games, lol.

Totally disagree. You can make a thread about pretty much any obscure game on /v/ and people will know it and talk about it. /vr/ is cool too but it's pretty slow. /vg/ is awful.

You just really can't go into any thread about an exclusive on /v/. They're wastelands of shitposts. I guess all videogame forums have that problem tho.
 
Freedom of speech only technically includes freedom from governmentally-imposed censorship, but I've always seen there as being a broader implicit principle to it - namely, the codification of the idea that the mere offensiveness of an idea does not, in and of itself, constitute a form of harm. I despise racists, and xenophobes, and sexists, but the mere idea that they have their own mostly segregated (and even more so, now) space on the same website doesn't really bother me - indeed, I think there's a form of strength in saying that an idea, itself, cannot harm, as long as you're also taking corresponding action to fight the real-world ill effects of those ideas through whatever means you have to contribute. This seems to me especially important in the contemporary world, considering that private corporations fulfill a number of basically public functions, and the highest public function a communication- and discussion-facilitating company like Reddit can aim to fulfill is to maximize the democratization of access to non-violent, non-harassing speech. The Chimpire is a vile, vile place, but it exists because of something wrong in society and in individuals that give such a thing appeal in the first place. You only bolster their zeal and appeal when you make martyrs out of them, and you entomb in the margins those few better souls that might escape that life of being the world's stink by minimizing the number of chances for them to interact with someone that might start them on the path to changing their mind.

Reddit is basically a failed experiment, for the upvote/downvote system will always cause it to gravitate to the lowest common denominator, but making access to hateful communities more difficult, and refusing to make revenue from them, seems to me a decent compromise, all things considered.
 
The consequences of government vs private censorship are so different as to make comparisons useless. When a private entity censors speech, people are still free to engage in that speech in any other location. When a government censors speech, no one can engage in that speech anywhere.

There are varying degrees, yes. A social media giant like Facebook censoring certain forms of speech has wider implications than a site like GameFAQs, for example. Of course, government censorship is something we don't want and is at a grander scale. We can state that they're on different scales with very different ramifications or outcomes, but at their core, they're both still free speech issues. It's also worth repeating that limiting free speech on privately owned sites isn't an inherently bad thing, whereas government censorship is.

Many people are upset about the Reddit outcome for one reason or another, but the complaint that they're limiting free speech isn't unfounded or incorrect. You may disagree on the merits of allowing the sort of speech they want protected on the site as well as how objectionable sub-reddits, posts, and users should be handled, but the counter-argument shouldn't be "Well, they're a private entity, so they can do what they want," it should be "I disagree, I want them to limit free speech due to the following reason(s)." While it's correct that Reddit is privately owned and can set its own rules including the restriction of free speech, it's not really countering the argument that relatively (and I say "relatively" because sub-reddits themselves can technically have strict moderation) unfettered free speech is preferable on Reddit.
 
I'm don't know the difference. (I suspect that's a blessing.)

Stormfront grooms it's userbase to use dogwhistle terms (eg anti-racist is codeword for anti-white), use misleading black crime statistics for their arguments, and withold racial slurs in order to subtly spread their agenda and indoctrinate ignorant people to their views.

/r/coontown doesn't do much of this. Think youtube comments in subreddit form. You probably won't be swayed by their views if you're not stupid and/or a piece of shit.
 
it's nothing compared to cutefemalecorpses sexyabortions picsofdeadkids etc

how do people even find those pictures? that is the creepy part


Stormfront grooms it's userbase to use dogwhistle terms (eg anti-racist is codeword for anti-white), use misleading black crime statistics for their arguments, and withold racial slurs in order to subtly spread their agenda and indoctrinate ignorant people to their views.

/r/coontown doesn't do much of this. Think youtube comments in subreddit form. You probably won't be swayed by their views if you're not stupid and/or a piece of shit.
that is the perfect breakdown, saving that for later
 
Uhg, curiosity got the best of me and I went to a few fucked up subreddits that were linked in this AMA that the new CEO addressed. I really thought I'd seen the most fucked up shit the internet has to offer, but a couple more things were just added to that list :/ uhg
 
So they getting rid of the racist reddits?
"/r/coontown will be reclassified"
CKEIMWCUAAAiAl-.png

https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3djjxw/lets_talk_content_ama/ct5rm74

Fucked up place.
 
It's weird because now that I've looked at /r/rapingwomen it is clearly just a bunch of trolls throwing the word rape around as much as they can -- they aren't encouraging people to rape. It's all nonsense like 'why rape is great'. /r/coontown is dead serious though
 
All I'm going to say is that it's incredibly easy to tolerate the existence of a subreddit like r/coontown when you're not a member of the group that's getting shit on. I'm sure it pains the CEO to let it continue to exist.
 
What stuff on that sub? I'm still looking and I can't find bigotry, doxing, sexism (unless you count disagreeing with someone sexism) or anything even remotely close to what is /r/coontown. I've been surfing that sub for the last few hours because of what was said about it here and elsewhere. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

KiA is gamergate HQ on reddit. GG is a reactionary movement focused almost entirely on eradicating feminists and progressive movements in gamer culture, primarily through harassment and intimidation. The subreddit itself is careful to avoid looking like that on a surface level, but its no different than say racists websites that use code words rather than outright derogatory terms.
 
Seems reasonable, though "Anything that harasses, bullies, or abuses an individual or group of people (these behaviors intimidate others into silence)" seems like it could be abused and misused to ban a dissenting point of view.

Yeah, a little paranoid of this rule. Someone could lose an argument fair and square and claimed they were silenced.
 
What the fuck /r coontown and rapewomen...

I always thought Stormfront was a StarWars fansite...not some Nazi whitepower shit.

Why does it even fucking exist?

Stormfront and Beastforum should be shut down..
 
But will they agree to be intentionally labeled as Racist and will others click "I'm racist" in order to view the trash? Even neo Nazis deny being racist.

Most of these people literally say that racism is a good thing. They describe non-racists as "haters of hate".
 
I really like EviLore's approach to running GAF.

Ground rules are made very clear. If you're reasonable in your criticism of something to do with how GAF is run, that's fine. But the buck stops with him and if you don't like it, you can always find somewhere else to go instead.

Really hope it stays that way too.

GAF is the best run internet forum I've ever seen.
 
/r/coontown to not be banned.
lol... Why even bother with this?

Can't be that ba...'read first topic in it'

'It was a rare double-loss for niggers today. First they found out /r/Coontown would remain. Second, they found /r/RapingWomen was to be removed. (self.CoonTown)'

Jesus why even set the rules and not enforce them...
 
That's what free speech is all about. It's up to me and you and everyone else to muster up compelling and well sourced arguments based in hard sciences to combat those speech that we know are wrong.

I don't think these discussions are really the realm of "hard sciences"... most racism, sexism, and other social issues fall in the realm of "soft sciences" (social sciences).
 
No one knows, but until they actually take action then I'll believe it when I see it. Hopefully this isn't just lip service, because the majority of Reddit truly is, as it stands today in no uncertain terms, one of the worst communities on the Internet.

A few subreddits with x 100k subscribers don't make the majority of reddit. Would you say the majority of GAF was creepy when figure GAF and other rather unsettling OT communities were still around?
 
A few subreddits with x 100k subscribers don't make the majority of reddit. Would you say the majority of GAF was creepy when figure GAF and other rather unsettling OT communities were still around?

I should clarify - the majority of Reddit is made up of good people and good subreddits, you're right. But the vocal minority, of racist and misogynist and other discrimination/hate subs, have taken over the general discussion of the site. They might be the minority, but they appear the majority when default subreddits and other somewhat large non-default subreddits regularly feature racism and sexism and other forms of discrimination on the top comments and submissions.
 
They might be the minority, but they appear the majority when default subreddits and other somewhat large non-default subreddits regularly feature racism and sexism and other forms of discrimination on the top comments and submissions.

And this is what is slowly going to end up what killing them in the long run. All these new rules have done is embolden the bigots across the site to continue their antics. The only thing keeping subs like Coontown and GasTheKikes will accomplish is continue pushing out everyone from the site who isn't an asshole until its just a watered down version of 4chan or worse 8chan.
 
Looks like Reddit finally banned /r/Coontown.

so there is hope after all

here is an addition to the policy by reddit

Our policies are not changing dramatically from what we have had in the past. One new concept is Quarantining a community, which entails applying a set of restrictions to a community so its content will only be viewable to those who explicitly opt in. We will Quarantine communities whose content would be considered extremely offensive to the average redditor.

Today, in addition to applying Quarantines, we are banning a handful of communities that exist solely to annoy other redditors, prevent us from improving Reddit, and generally make Reddit worse for everyone else. Our most important policy over the last ten years has been to allow just about anything so long as it does not prevent others from enjoying Reddit for what it is: the best place online to have truly authentic conversations.


I believe these policies strike the right balance.
 
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