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[Arachnid]

It seems to be pretty common for game devs to shit talk other game developers work. Devs even bad mouthed Elden Ring and that was a critical and box office success.

LMAO which devs had the balls to dunk on Elden Ring? Rockstar and Naughty Dog are the only peers they have. It damn well better have been them

 

[Tommi84]

Here! Few awards for you!

 

[JohnnyFootball]

They should have gone back in time to when the game started development and canned it?

No, genius.

They should have been able to objectively look at the state it was in at various points of the development cycle. They acquired Bethesda back in March of 2021, a full two years ago. Plenty of time to change course.

 

[Katatonic]

???? Did you listen to the interview? He literally did the opposite of what you’re describing

I did watch the interview and I put myself in Arkane's shoes when hearing what he said. That was classic throw under the bus double-speak. Very bad leadership skills that dude has.

 

[Mr Hyde]

LMAO which devs had the balls the dunk Elden Ring? Rockstar and Naughty Dog are the only peers they have. It damn well better have been them

I think it was Ubi and Guerilla devs who were butthurt over Elden Rings quest design and overall lack of hand holding.

 

[Hestar69]

what are they supposed to say? congrats on releasing a broken game with 30 fps only and AI dumber than a kid with a 0.89 GPA.

I hope they can turn it around, i hear the combat is actually fun,but that other stuff is badddddddddddd.

 

[Foilz]

Why is it "sad". If you do shit work your shit work is gonna get criticized. If you can't take the paying public or your industry piers mocking your shitty skills then go work at 7-11. People are so thin skinned these days.

 

[JackSparr0w]

If #metoo taught us anything is don't believe anything a woman says on social media without proof.

 

[saintjules]

This is sad, game development is a very difficult task, nobody deserve this bullying

Looks like jonnyp and JackSparr0w disagree with you. Maybe they're part of it.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I did watch the interview and I put myself in Arkane's shoes when hearing what he said. That was classic throw under the bus double-speak. Very bad leadership skills that dude has.

Hard disagree, but I guess you do you. The guy took responsibility for it himself

 

[mitch1971]

Person trips over.
Partner/friend/employee laughs.
Next day no one remembers.
Move on.

 

[hyperbertha]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the colleagues who are mocking them are within Arkane Lyon. I can’t really explain it but I always got the feeling from various interviews from the Lyon team during their project development that they didn’t really care for the Austin team.

Honestly Austin has turned out to be somewhat of a blight on the arkane name. I wouldn't be surprised if they harbor resentment towards Austin.

 

[Chronicle]

Where? Who?

If it sucks, take your links. I can tell she's a millenial. She wants to be rewarded for finishing the job not the quality of the job.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Ah yes, Harvey Smith, the notorious director of Deus Ex: Invisible War

I'm not surprised the game turned out shit if you know about DX:IW and how shit that was

 

[Aenima]

I think it was Ubi and Guerilla devs who were butthurt over Elden Rings quest design and overall lack of hand holding.

They are right though. Elden Ring quest design is fucking terrible. It might work in smaller games like Demon's Souls, but not in a open world. I had to follow a internet guide to finish the quest line i was enjoying, cuz i reached a point i had no idea what i had to do next to move on with the quest.

 

[hyperbertha]

The narrative surrounding this game is far worse than the actual game.

I've played it with friends. It's fine to pass the time (while.i wait for Remnanr 2!). Its def not great - but I've played far worse games that haven't gotten this much heat.

Redfall GOTY edition - "Not great but fine to pass the time"

 

[diunxx]

Gamers and childish assholes and game devs are after all, Gamers.

 

[-MD-]

This is on Phil for not giving the devs more time.

Gotta rush that game for gamepass.

This game woulda been a stinker even with another year of dev time.

 

[simpatico]

Another example of games industry people being weird. If people who do the same job I do, do a horrible shitty job, I'm going to mock it loudly. I'd expect and welcome them to do the same with my work if it's clearly subpar. Why do so many people demand to be coddled today?

 

[Edgelord79]

Get.off.twitter.

 

[Come On Tars]

 

[Shadowstar39]

Ughh pronoun person on Twitter.... Equals give me proof or I don't believe. A lot of grievence mining and culture war attention seeking behavior from some.

This tweet does not show proof or give examples. Why are people reacting to hearsay on the internet. Also if is true, freedom of speech. You can give your opinion as an individual dev. That may make you a jerk but it's no illegal.

I really expected better form you guys. This is ree where people are "canceled" or pearla clutched over imaginary "bad words on the internet".

 

[Shadowstar39]

Shit happens in game development, that doesn’t give anyone excuse to insulting developers.

You don't believe in free speech? Sad. You and I and other devs are entitled to their opinion. Doesnt mean people cant be jerks and if they are call them out, but they are allowed to speak their mind.

Also this is someone with pronouns in their bio and bull nose ring on Twitter ... Meaning most likely narcissistic, attention seeking virtue signaling person, looking for attention and "likes". Notice no examples, no proof. Anyone can say "those guys over there were mean to me"... Which and what did they say?

 

[Danjin44]

You don't believe in free speech? Sad. You and I and other devs are entitled to their opinion. Doesnt mean people cant be jerks and if they are call them out, but they are allowed to speak their mind.

Also this is someone with pronouns in their bio and bull nose ring... Meaning most likely narcissistic, attention seeking virtue signaling person, looking for attention and "likes". Notice no examples, no proof. Anyone can say "those guys over there were mean to me"... Which and what did they say?

I'm not saying they shouldn't criticize them, in fact its good for Arkane but actively mocking them? it just bad taste in my opinion.

 

[ProtoByte]

True, I doubt it as well. But it probably being personal is even more stupid, if true of course.

If you have beef with the studio or people there, it might not be so stupid.

Call them out by name with receipts. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

Page 7 and still not a single receipt posted?

I'm calling bullshit.

It really doesn't matter. 1, it's not our business or our problem. 2, what happens if we do find out those people's names? Do they lose their jobs for daring to have a negative opinion of a very bad video game from a studio that has shown rank incompetence? In private no less?

There's no infraction here. Just reality, and someone who doesn't seem like they've had to confront it before.

 

[Esca]

I was usually the first one to say aloud how poorly something came out lol
Just because your work is in something bad doesn't mean your work is bad, unless can be directly connect to you then uh byeeeeee

 

[Hoddi]

Some people are just actual trash. It’s not a new thing and it’s best to accept that.

Most of them are failures in life and they’re just finding ways to take it out on someone else.

 

[93xfan]

Bad game shaming is NOT okay

 

[Harlock]

Senior 2D artist?

 

[EdGalTBR]

Everyone who worked on Redfall needs to find other things to do with their life.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Also, if that is the culture at the studio it explains a lot. Where everyone had to say it was simply wonderful, no issues for fear of upsetting staff and little wonder MS own mock reviews said the game was wonderful.

Little wonder it shipped in such a state and Phil was pissed off.

Go WOKE, Go Broke ...

 

[Banjo64]

Early on? after 3,5 years that they were working on it? the game was well beyond scrapping zone when M had any power over it.

I couldn’t disagree more. The game could have been on the verge of going gold, if Microsoft has one ounce of care for their reputation they would have scrapped it.

The harm that releasing this game has done cannot be overstated.

I now have absolutely zero faith that Microsoft can deliver on those upcoming games. My faith in the Xbox brand has never been lower. This is rock bottom.

 

[GymWolf]

I couldn’t disagree more. The game could have been on the verge of going gold, if Microsoft has one ounce of care for their reputation they would have scrapped it.

The harm that releasing this game has done cannot be overstated.

I now have absolutely zero faith that Microsoft can deliver on those upcoming games. My faith in the Xbox brand has never been lower. This is rock bottom.

Microsoft was obviously greedy and wanted to cash on a broken product, even just to have something relatively big on gamepass during this period of time where so many good games are being released, but if the devs were really happy about how the game was shaping up (hard to believe) then cutting the project would have been a terrible first impression for a new boss.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Microsoft was obviously greedy and wanted to cash on a broken product, even just to have something relatively big on gamepass during this period of time where so many good games are being released, but if the devs were really happy about how the game was shaping up (hard to believe) then cutting the project would have been a terrible first impression for a new boss.

The new boss who estimated Redfall’s metacritic score would be a lot higher and in the same interview (days after launch) he used Redfall as a reason MS might not be believed by gamers without proof. How does he do this in the same interview is beyond me…

 

[Panajev2001a]

Microsoft was obviously greedy and wanted to cash on a broken product, even just to have something relatively big on gamepass

… and this is another problem “must have something coming out on GamePass no matter what it actually is”… seems like playing into people’s perceived negative effect narrative around GamePass, they should know better.

 

[GymWolf]

The problem is that you can't play the greedy management, the hands off management and the first party game with marketing push management at the same time.

MS got a problematic game when they took Bethesda, yes. They choose to continue with it. They choose to market it. They choose to delay it. And they choose to give it to us in the state that it is now. It was a shitty situation that did not go better. MS got difficult choices that were bad no matter what. But they are a console manufacturer, and as such they are compared to the best of the industry.

When Rockstar were publishing LA noire, they did as many delays as needed and send people to fix it when it was clear that the management at team bondi was the problem.8 years. And the game Agent( a supposed playstation exclusive for the ps3 I think) is MIA.

Sony delayed The Last guardian until it was ready. They jumped it from PS3 to PS4.Around 9 years of dev. And they cancelled a Santa Monica game just before they did GOW.

Nintendo are working on Metroid Prime 4 since 2017. It changed studios at least once.
What is wrong in blaming Microsoft of not being at that level? Of delaying until success is found or scraping it?
The worse thing is, we had Phil explain why they did it that way, and each decision can be accepted by itself, but the sum of it is Redfall. And he took responsibility for it.

I blame M, i just don't direct all of my rage on them like some people do for secondary console war purposes.

You can bet your ass that if bend next game is gonna get another middling score, people in here are gonna say that it is all bend fault and that they are the worst sony team etc, nobody is gonna say that it is all sony's fault.

This is mostly on arkane with M making all the worse possible decisions with a rotten product.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Eh, it's a bit tone-deaf. I get that she, as someone who only worked on a very specific part of the game that wouldn't save the entire product even if it was the best work in the industry, may feel frustrated that this is what she has to deal with after all that hard work. But on the other hand, the game is just shit and everyone who played it and was disappointed with how shit it was for that price, had a right to tear it to shreds too. Just get over it an move on instead of taking things to Twitter.

Like, seriously, she made some textures for the game. Even if that game is crap, if her work on it was good then she won't have trouble getting more gigs so it's a big cry over nothing.

 

[GymWolf]

The new boss who estimated the metacritic score would be a lot higher and in the same interview (days after launch) he used Redfall as a reason MS might not be believed by gamers without proof. How does he do this in the same interview is beyond me…

Yeah i'm not saying that phil is innocent, that interview was something else...

 

[gothmog]

… and this is another problem “must have something coming out on GamePass no matter what it actually is”… seems like playing into people’s perceived negative effect narrative around GamePass, they should know better.

If you do it, is it really a "perceived negative effect narrative"?

 

[FunkMiller]

Eh, it's a bit tone-deaf. I get that she, as someone who only worked on a very specific part of the game that wouldn't save the entire product even if it was the best work in the industry, may feel frustrated that this is what she has to deal with after all that hard work. But on the other hand, the game is just shit and everyone who played it and was disappointed with how shit it was for that price, had a right to tear it to shreds too. Just get over it an move on instead of taking things to Twitter.

Like, seriously, she made some textures for the game. Even if that game is crap, if her work on it was good then she won't have trouble getting more gigs so it's a big cry over nothing.

The thing that got me was her celebrating the game‘s release on Twitter. She must have known how fucking broken it was. I don’t believe that any member of Arkane’s staff wasn’t fully aware of the piece of shit they were putting out. It was so obviously fucked, no one could have been fooled into thinking it was okay.

And yet, here she is, still celebrating the game’s release? Like she’s proud of it? And fooling gamers into thinking it’s worth buying?

 

[kyussman]

Oh dear,you have pronouns in your bio too,so you've fallen into gender ideology and given up desire to think for yourself......going along to get along within your millennial echo chamber no doubt....good luck with all that.

 

[Panajev2001a]

If you do it, is it really a "perceived negative effect narrative"?

Good point .

 

[Daneel Elijah]

I blame M, i just don't direct all of my rage on them like some people do for secondary console war purposes.

You can bet your ass that if bend next game is gonna get another middling score, people in here are gonna say that it is all bend fault and that they are the worst sony team etc, nobody is gonna say that it is all sony's fault.

This is mostly on arkane with M making all the worse possible decisions with a rotten product.

Some people are a little too much, yes. But how can Arkane have most of the responsibility when it is Microsoft who control all decisions? When it was time to cancel the PS5 version, they were there. When it was time to heavily market the game, they were there. When the game was close to the first date and a delay was needed, they were there. And now they choose to publish it in this state. If arkane lied to Microsoft, then yes it is their fault. But even then, from a outsider perspective it is Microsoft fault, as they should have looked hard at the game before it was out. All games need a certification. And Microsoft gave it. No suprises here.
I am not saying that arkane has no blame here. They do. But they lost all control of themselves a long time ago. And Microsoft( and Phil) has explained pretty well what happened. But they could have delayed or cancelled the game. By not doing it they have to take most of the blame. The 70$ that they get when someone buy the game go to Microsoft. So they have to take the good with the bad.

As for bend, or any Sony first party game, I am not so sure. If the game is out with no bugs and good graphics you can't complain that much. Rest gameplay, story... and that is the studio that work on that. But if a game is out full of bugs then I can see Sony taking some blame, like for the TLOU PC port. I hope that you would agree with the difference.

 

[GymWolf]

Some people are a little too much, yes. But how can Arkane have most of the responsibility when it is Microsoft who control all decisions? When it was time to cancel the PS5 version, they were there. When it was time to heavily market the game, they were there. When the game was close to the first date and a delay was needed, they were there. And now they choose to publish it in this state. If arkane lied to Microsoft, then yes it is their fault. But even then, from a outsider perspective it is Microsoft fault, as they should have looked hard at the game before it was out. All games need a certification. And Microsoft gave it. No suprises here.
I am not saying that arkane has no blame here. They do. But they lost all control of themselves a long time ago. And Microsoft( and Phil) has explained pretty well what happened. But they could have delayed or cancelled the game. By not doing it they have to take most of the blame. The 70$ that they get when someone buy the game go to Microsoft. So they have to take the good with the bad.

As for bend, or any Sony first party game, I am not so sure. If the game is out with no bugs and good graphics you can't complain that much. Rest gameplay, story... and that is the studio that work on that. But if a game is out full of bugs then I can see Sony taking some blame, like for the TLOU PC port. I hope that you would agree with the difference.

Because they made the game? They decided the core concept, the gameplay, the plot, the characters, the shitty loot and skills, the lack of immersive sims elements, etc, the game being shit is almost ALL on them.

A ps5 cancelled port or heavy market are hardly the cause for the game being shit, they just add salt to the injury.

Like i said, M made all the wrong decisions around the game, but i still see arkane as the biggest culprit here.

Many games are rushed and have performance problems but they have a good core, this game is just rotten in almost all of his aspects.

I played the game dude, the bugs are the last of this game problem.

 

[supernova8]

Hard to tell if it means this individual is being attacked personally or if it's just referring to people more generally shitting on Arkane (the latter I have no problem with).

 

[Windom Earle]

she/her + cheap tats + restricted replies = opinion discarded

 

[Drizzlehell]

she/her + cheap tats + restricted replies = opinion discarded

No wonder so many games these days are what they are when these are the people who are making them.

She does have a nice rack, though.

 

[The Cockatrice]

She does have a nice rack, though.

I had to look it up, damn son, you werent kidding. I take everything back. She can complain all she wants on my face with those personalities.

 

[Gone]

Well, make better games then.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I blame M, i just don't direct all of my rage on them like some people do for secondary console war purposes.

You can bet your ass that if bend next game is gonna get another middling score, people in here are gonna say that it is all bend fault and that they are the worst sony team etc, nobody is gonna say that it is all sony's fault.

This is mostly on arkane with M making all the worse possible decisions with a rotten product.

Like them or hate them, Sony has set the standard for high quality first party games. They have been consistently delivering 2-3 exclusives a year and always have something in the pipeline ready at major points in the year. Sony has been very steady at this for over 10 years now. Not all of those exclusives have been truly special (Deathloop as a 3rd party exclusive wasn't great but decent) Last year Sony had Horizon, The Last of Us remake and God of War. One of those was a remake, a high quality remake that had no business costing $70 and I was HIGHLY critical, but that IS an example of something easy to do. MS is sitting on a gold mine of IPs that they could be doing something like this. Fallout, Doom, Fable, etc. I know a lot of people hate remakes and remasters, but I absolutely do believe they have their place. There is no reason Fallout 3 and New Vegas shouldn't have been re-released by now. People want these games to run on modern consoles.

MS have more than enough studios to do this.

At this moment, I have very little faith that Starfield will be anything great. I believe it will be, at best, a mess of good ambitious ideas that end up getting crushed on their own weight. Not to mention will likely have bugs and performance issues.

I hope I am wrong and that Starfield knocks it out of the park and I very much hope MS is able to get it together. Phil is great at acknowledging mistakes, but has shown little into fixing those mistake. I can only take apologies for so long before