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[Dr.Morris79]

Based. On. What? The effusiveness? You say you aren't delving into hacky "ethics in gaming" schtick, but literally haven't offered ANY evidence for your perspective other than "the writer doesn't want to piss off MS. . ." which reads as hacky "ethics in gaming" schtick.



By all means, point out where I have said this game will be - without caveats - "great."

. . .and boohoo, someone pushes back on your drive-by hot-take based on your "no read" of a preview. You'll get over it.

Why do I need to read a preview you prat, I just said it looks like dog shit, you're arguing it doesnt, ergo, you think in someway it'll be good..

How stupid are you that you have to have your own comments explained back to you. The simple fact you started your weird tirade against a forum poster over their view shows that

Just another clown.

 

[MarkMe2525]

I didn't say to work. I'm saying to have consistent AAA games and for Microsoft to be happy about profit. How much you think Microsoft makes from Windows? Microsoft is one of the wealthiest companies in the world. They know and expect top tier profit margins.

I took issue with your statement that MS "needs" 100 million. If you misspoke or meant something else, I understand.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I took issue with your statement that MS "needs" 100 million. If you misspoke or meant something else, I understand.

Not the person who wrote it, but I think the 100 million figure makes sense.

Don't want to derail this thread and make it about GP financials so I won't be responding on this further, but:

MS currently makes $3 billion for 25 million GP subscribers. 100 million subs would mean $12 billion in revenue per year.

Xbox is now much bigger than PlayStation in terms of the number of studios, developers, and games in development. PlayStation makes $25 billion in revenue and a profit of $3 billion in an average year. To support 30+ studios, 40+ games, and nearly 2x more developers, Xbox will need at least 1.6x of that revenue. Game Pass cannibalizes first- and third-party game sales, and it'll continue to do so at an even faster pace as it becomes more popular. (more people on sub = even less game sales).

So most of the revenue will have to come from the sub itself -- not retail software sales.

In that case, at least $12 billion (out of ~$35 billion revenue of the division) will make sense.

At the moment, GP is roughly 15% of Xbox's revenue. Even at $12 billion (100 million subs), it'll still be only 30% of Xbox's revenue -- which may or may not be enough depending on the software sales at that point.

 

[ANDS]

Why do I need to read a preview -

Your post, that I responded to (and that got your knickers twisted), was LITERALLY in response to you not reading a preview and then gracing the thread with your take. I didn't tell you to read a preview, we're TALKING about the preview.

I just said it looks like dog shit, you're arguing it doesnt, ergo, you think in someway it'll be good..

If you don't think the game looks good, why would ANYONE have a problem with that. There are numerous people in this thread who don't think the game looks good. That isn't what I responded to, you - to use your words so don't get mad at me mods - prat. I responded to your dismissiveness of the article we're talking about (repeated again in case you forgot what you responded to).

. . .and not for nothing I've already expressed my concerns about the game (here and elsewhere); I mention this only in the off chance you were interested in responding to what someone actually thinks and not what you think they think.

How stupid are you that you have to have your own comments explained back to you.

Tell me about it.

 

[Ansphn]

I took issue with your statement that MS "needs" 100 million. If you misspoke or meant something else, I understand.

Yes they need 100 million subscribers from only 25 millions. And that's only half of Netflix subscribers so what I'm saying is not astronomical and unreasonable. Netflix currently has 200 million subscribers.

 

[Zuzu]

New trailer for one of the characters

 

[MarkMe2525]

Not the person who wrote it, but I think the 100 million figure makes sense.

Don't want to derail this thread and make it about GP financials so I won't be responding on this further, but:

MS currently makes $3 billion for 25 million GP subscribers. 100 million subs would mean $12 billion in revenue per year.

Xbox is now much bigger than PlayStation in terms of the number of studios, developers, and games in development. PlayStation makes $25 billion in revenue and a profit of $3 billion in an average year. To support 30+ studios, 40+ games, and nearly 2x more developers, Xbox will need at least 1.6x of that revenue. Game Pass cannibalizes first- and third-party game sales, and it'll continue to do so at an even faster pace as it becomes more popular. (more people on sub = even less game sales).

So most of the revenue will have to come from the sub itself -- not retail software sales.

In that case, at least $12 billion (out of ~$35 billion revenue of the division) will make sense.

At the moment, GP is roughly 15% of Xbox's revenue. Even at $12 billion (100 million subs), it'll still be only 30% of Xbox's revenue -- which may or may not be enough depending on the software sales at that point.

Of course MS would love 100 million active subs, my point was it doesn't "need" 100 million monthly subscribers.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Your post, that I responded to (and that got your knickers twisted), was LITERALLY in response to you not reading a preview and then gracing the thread with your take. I didn't tell you to read a preview, we're TALKING about the preview.



If you don't think the game looks good, why would ANYONE have a problem with that. There are numerous people in this thread who don't think the game looks good. That isn't what I responded to, you - to use your words so don't get mad at me mods - prat. I responded to your dismissiveness of the article we're talking about (repeated again in case you forgot what you responded to).

. . .and not for nothing I've already expressed my concerns about the game (here and elsewhere); I mention this only in the off chance you were interested in responding to what someone actually thinks and not what you think they think.



Tell me about it.

Yes.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Yes they need 100 million subscribers from only 25 millions. And that's only half of Netflix subscribers so what I'm saying is not astronomical and unreasonable. Netflix currently has 200 million subscribers.

Comparing the by far leading TV content subscription service to gamepass doesn't give you any meaningful information. The market available to a game subscription is magnitudes smaller than a subscription delivering passive entertainment.

Stating 100 million gamepass subscribers is reasonable because Netflix has 200 million subscribers, IMO, in nonsense. At least within the next decade.

 

[Riky]

Looks like it plays a lot like Destiny but with a far more interesting and original style, pretty much what you expect from Arkane really. They always deliver.

 

[DryvBy]

Looks like it plays a lot like Destiny but with a far more interesting and original style, pretty much what you expect from Arkane really. They always deliver.

You watched this footage and then decided to write, "This looks better than Destiny"?

 

[Kvally]

Looks like it plays a lot like Destiny

 

[ANDS]

Looks like it plays a lot like Destiny but with a far more interesting and original style, pretty much what you expect from Arkane really. They always deliver.

At WORST, I expect a competent, if uninspired, open-world shooter. ARKANE'll have to nail at least that for this to get an "okay" response from the press. If they somehow, and I'm still wary about this bit, managed to infuse the freedom from their previous games and it feels good. . .that's the secret sauce and what I think my reviewers are going to be looking for.

So far, other than some REALLY bog standard showings of this freedom (sending the robot in as a distraction, Layla helping launch her friends to the roof or Devinder using his teleporter to surprise ambush a group of enemies), we really haven't seen examples of the chaos folks were getting up to in DISHONORED or even DEATHLOOP.

. . .that said, I'm largely excited to play this at launch based solely on enjoying open worlds, and hopeful for ARKANE to bring their personal touch to one. Honestly, this feels like a game they could have made with their eyes closed, so it'll be interesting to see their approach in action.

 

[Klosshufvud]

What's crazy is you have guys like phil talking about being frustrated about console wars, yet xbox studios are inviting one of the biggest xbox console warriors for a preview and basically propping him up.

Phil also said he dislikes exclusives, yet has no qualms spending tens of billions of dollars to keep games off Playstation.

What the guy says and what the guy does are complete opposites.

 

[fallingdove]

Ugh — no thanks. Can’t stand paint by numbers games.

 

[Ansphn]

Comparing the by far leading TV content subscription service to gamepass doesn't give you any meaningful information. The market available to a game subscription is magnitudes smaller than a subscription delivering passive entertainment.

Stating 100 million gamepass subscribers is reasonable because Netflix has 200 million subscribers, IMO, in nonsense. At least within the next decade.

In what way is it non-sense? Have you seen the reports from Microsoft? So what subscription count do you think they need then?

 

[Dr. Claus]

You are such a clown.

Mate, at least have some introspection.

 

[KonstructReborn]

I'm getting Wolfenstein Youngblood vibes from this... Just without the horrific cringe.

Also I never knew Arkane helped with the development.

 

[R6Rider]

Who said this?

As expected from Arkane, top quality and a GOTY contender, it was really never in doubt.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Phil also said he dislikes exclusives, yet has no qualms spending tens of billions of dollars to keep games off Playstation.

What the guy says and what the guy does are complete opposites.

He is also quoted stating that he realizes exclusives are an important part of the gaming business and will still continue to bring exclusives to MS platforms. Not liking the idea of exclusives and still producing them for platform growth are not mutually exclusive.

"Phil is lieing" is a reductive and incorrect conclusion to make when your realize there is missing context that is not included in the headlines and highlighted quotes that you are basing your argument on.

 

[KonstructReborn]

Ewwwww look at that random stuttering. Like right when the IGN logo pops up boss in the doorway. Eww ewww.

Quick edit: I don't see it now lord help me. Ya think my browser was screwing up refreshed seems fine now. You win this time Redfall, but I'll catch you in the act

 

[MarkMe2525]

In what way is it non-sense? Have you seen the reports from Microsoft? So what subscription count do you think they need then?

I clearly explained in what way it was non-sense. For your second question, this market is an emerging one so there aren't many examples to have an apples to apples comparison. The closest examples are obviously Sony's ps plus and maybe the defunct stadia pro subscription, though the stadia pro subscription is more far removed than the PS2 plus comparison.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I think the question mark and exclamation point indicators above the heads is stupid and just helps highlight how bad the AI is.

 

[DaGwaphics]

New trailer for one of the characters

It will be so hard to decide on a character in single player, since you won't be able to utilize your team members special moves. So far, I'm thinking elevator girl, because being able to change elevations on the map would helpful. The Sniper capabilities though...

 

[Hendrick's]

Mate, at least have some introspection.

Okay mate.

 

[Ansphn]

I clearly explained in what way it was non-sense. For your second question, this market is an emerging one so there aren't many examples to have an apples to apples comparison. The closest examples are obviously Sony's ps plus and maybe the defunct stadia pro subscription, though the stadia pro subscription is more far removed than the PS2 plus comparison.

You do understand that making games and making movies require a lot of money, right? At times, games are actually more expensive. Why do you think it will be much different in operating cost between a subscription model for movies and games? We have an example in Netflix with 200 million subscribers as the top of the food chain in movie/show streaming. You never explained why Gamepass wouldn't require high subscribers counts to be successful.

So why do you think it will be much different? And don't give me the same excuse about emerging market.

 

[MarkMe2525]

You do understand that making games and making movies require a lot of money, right? At times, games are actually more expensive. Why do you think it will be much different in operating cost between a subscription model for movies and games? We have an example in Netflix with 200 million subscribers as the top of the food chain in movie/show streaming. You never explained why Gamepass wouldn't require high subscribers counts to be successful.

So why do you think it will be much different? And don't give me the same excuse about emerging market.

?? You resort to putting words in my mouth? You stated Xbox needs 100 million subscribers, I say "No they don't".

You inferring that gamepass "needs" that many subscribers to fund game development is a false delimma. Your argument requires that gamepass be the sole generator of revenue for Xbox, and it's just not. Previous to gamepass being a thing, they already had enough cash to publish 1st party games. Gamepass takes most of the variable revenue from 1st party releases and turns it into a semi consistent revenue stream. You then add this to the 30% cut from store sales+accessory revenue.

Just one month of revenue, even at 25 million subscribers, can fund a number of games by itself. Of course, all that revenue doesn't go straight into investments, but if 100 million subscribers was a number that gamepass had to hit anytime soon, gamepass would have never been green lit to start with.

 

[DaGwaphics]

You do understand that making games and making movies require a lot of money, right? At times, games are actually more expensive. Why do you think it will be much different in operating cost between a subscription model for movies and games? We have an example in Netflix with 200 million subscribers as the top of the food chain in movie/show streaming. You never explained why Gamepass wouldn't require high subscribers counts to be successful.

So why do you think it will be much different? And don't give me the same excuse about emerging market.

You do realize that MS's target is 4 AAA games a year and maybe some smaller ones along with that right (+ the third-party content, obviously)? It's a far cry from the amount of content that is required for Netflix. The passive nature of Netflix and the fact that streaming TV/Movies is primarily competing with cable TV combine to create a situation where Netflix (and all of the TV/Movie streaming services) require massive amounts of content. People can and do watch/listen to more passive content than they do content they need to engage with (video games), the assertions you are trying to make simply aren't plausible. GP just only needs so much content per month, as the gaming hours of its users are limited.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

You do realize that MS's target is 4 AAA games a year and maybe some smaller ones along with that right (+ the third-party content, obviously)? It's a far cry from the amount of content that is required for Netflix. The passive nature of Netflix and the fact that streaming TV/Movies is primarily competing with cable TV combine to create a situation where Netflix (and all of the TV/Movie streaming services) require massive amounts of content. People can and do watch/listen to more passive content than they do content they need to engage with (video games), the assertions you are trying to make simply aren't plausible. GP just only needs so much content per month, as the gaming hours of its users are limited.

They need a shit ton of content too. What if the 4 AAA games a year are in a genre some poeple have no interest in?
Actually, they would want (the question is how they could pull it off) 4 AAA Games a year in every gaming category. They are competing with mobile games on iOS and Android that shit out games on a daily basis, f2p and PlayStation. Its the same situation Netflix is in. Content is needed.
One way is going to be marketing AA games as AAA games, and that is what I think is going to happen. Redfall is AA from the looks of it.

 

[kyussman]

Every time I hear "I'll play it because it's on GamePass" a small part of my gaming soul dies.

 

[LastBattle]

Wow, is this moron still console warring? I remember his pathetic videos years ago. That’s just sad…

 

[ProtoByte]

Wait aren't you the guy who discredits an award winning game like Pentiment because you don't like its art style ?

I don't think you're in any position to create any trajectories my friend

Award winning from what? 2 websites. Yeah, right.

Given how much the Xbox camp disparages movie/story games with "no gameplay", I'm shocked there's enough cognitive dissonance to use Pentiment of all things for list wars ammo. Nevermind that it doesn't even have voice acting, and nevermind that nobody played it and nobody talks about it.

 

[Ansphn]

You do realize that MS's target is 4 AAA games a year and maybe some smaller ones along with that right (+ the third-party content, obviously)? It's a far cry from the amount of content that is required for Netflix. The passive nature of Netflix and the fact that streaming TV/Movies is primarily competing with cable TV combine to create a situation where Netflix (and all of the TV/Movie streaming services) require massive amounts of content. People can and do watch/listen to more passive content than they do content they need to engage with (video games), the assertions you are trying to make simply aren't plausible. GP just only needs so much content per month, as the gaming hours of its users are limited.

That's why it's so difficult to gauge this because Microsoft always hide numbers. It would be great if they showed how much it cost to develop those 4 AAA games every year. Also why do you think those 3rd party games are cheap compared in low budget movies?

 

[Ansphn]

?? You resort to putting words in my mouth? You stated Xbox needs 100 million subscribers, I say "No they don't".

You inferring that gamepass "needs" that many subscribers to fund game development is a false delimma. Your argument requires that gamepass be the sole generator of revenue for Xbox, and it's just not. Previous to gamepass being a thing, they already had enough cash to publish 1st party games. Gamepass takes most of the variable revenue from 1st party releases and turns it into a semi consistent revenue stream. You then add this to the 30% cut from store sales+accessory revenue.

Just one month of revenue, even at 25 million subscribers, can fund a number of games by itself. Of course, all that revenue doesn't go straight into investments, but if 100 million subscribers was a number that gamepass had to hit anytime soon, gamepass would have never been green lit to start with.

You're going to have to show me links to where you get your numbers, man.

 

[Topher]

You're going to have to show me links to where you get your numbers, man.

Microsoft said Game Pass is 10 to 15% of its game revenue. Doesn't make sense to compare that revenue structure to Netflix which is entirely subscription based.

 

[Helghan]

Game journalists are generally much more lenient when it comes to previews. And the previews weren't glowing. Especially when game journalists are flown out by Microsoft and given time with producers and the game's director while previewing the game. It's harder to heavily critique an unfinished product in that environment

Or it's just a decent game

 

[Stare-Bear]

Microsoft said Game Pass is 10 to 15% of its game revenue. Doesn't make sense to compare that revenue structure to Netflix which is entirely subscription based.

Which seems low cause they aint selling that much hardware and they definitely not selling software...

 

[Topher]

Which seems low cause they aint selling that much hardware and they definitely not selling software...

That game content revenue comes from Xbox, Microsoft PC store and Steam. Microsoft has done pretty well selling games on Steam.

 

[fermcr]

The game looks decent enough.
Honestly, I wouldn't purchase this game at full price, but I won't mind getting Gamepass for a month to play the game.

 

[adamsapple]

Award winning from what? 2 websites. Yeah, right.

Given how much the Xbox camp disparages movie/story games with "no gameplay", I'm shocked there's enough cognitive dissonance to use Pentiment of all things for list wars ammo. Nevermind that it doesn't even have voice acting, and nevermind that nobody played it and nobody talks about it.

4 actually.


1. Gfinity ESports (US)
2. Dense Pixels (US)
3. NewOnce (PL)
4. Screen Rant (US)

Along with being critically acclaimed.

Also, we're talking about it, and the person I quoted talked about it. You're talking about it.

At least get the facts right

 

[MarkMe2525]

[

You're going to have to show me links to where you get your numbers, man.

Edit: you know, I'm not interested in continuing the discussion. You are right I am wrong. If MS doesn't reach 100 million subscribers, they are doomed.

 

[Ansphn]

Microsoft said Game Pass is 10 to 15% of its game revenue. Doesn't make sense to compare that revenue structure to Netflix which is entirely subscription based.

Yes 15% right now but you don't think Microsoft has bigger aspirations? I don't take Microsoft as a company that dreams small.

So, lets say Gamepass took over the gaming industry in 10 years and with COD, they have Sony by the balls. You think Microsoft will say nahhhh we need to make sure its only 15%? They spent 70 billion dollars for Activision, bought Xenimax for 7.5 billions and is still trying to buy more just to make sure to keep Gamepass at 15%?

 

[Ansphn]

[
Edit: you know, I'm not interested in continuing the discussion. You are right I am wrong. If MS doesn't reach 100 million subscribers, they are doomed.

You're acting like a child, bro LMAO. Again i never said they are doomed if they don't reach 100 million subscribers. All i said was they need that # to consequently bring AAA games. Right now, their budget only allows for AA games like Halo Infinite, Redfall and all the stuff they released on Gamepass so far.

 

[Topher]

Yes 15% right now but you don't think Microsoft has bigger aspirations? I don't take Microsoft as a company that dreams small.

So, lets say Gamepass took over the gaming industry in 10 years and with COD, they have Sony by the balls. You think Microsoft will say nahhhh we need to make sure its only 15%? They spent 70 billion dollars for Activision, bought Xenamax for 7.5 billions and is still trying to buy more just to make sure to keep Gamepass at 15%?

Phil Spencer said he doesn't expect that ratio to change. That's their expectation, not their requirement.

 

[Ansphn]

Phil Spencer said he doesn't expect that ratio to change. That's their expectation, not their requirement.

Phil Spencer says a lot of things. Think logically about this, dude.

Would you spend $70 billions for Activision,$ 7.5 billions for Xenimax, and not done spending to stay at 15%?

 

[DaGwaphics]

They need a shit ton of content too. What if the 4 AAA games a year are in a genre some poeple have no interest in?
Actually, they would want (the question is how they could pull it off) 4 AAA Games a year in every gaming category. They are competing with mobile games on iOS and Android that shit out games on a daily basis, f2p and PlayStation. Its the same situation Netflix is in. Content is needed.
One way is going to be marketing AA games as AAA games, and that is what I think is going to happen. Redfall is AA from the looks of it.

MS is doing a good job of hitting a lot of genres as it is. But that doesn't change the fact that the target for them is 4 AAA games a year. That would, on average, be more than Sony and Nintendo. Plus, they have to have a window to focus on each title from a marketing perspective. There will never be a time when they are releasing AAA games every couple weeks.

That's why it's so difficult to gauge this because Microsoft always hide numbers. It would be great if they showed how much it cost to develop those 4 AAA games every year. Also why do you think those 3rd party games are cheap compared in low budget movies?

It isn't so much about the content being cheap as much as it is just about how many fewer titles there are and always will be in comparison to even the smaller streaming TV/Movie services. MS puts a lot of day one content on GP, but I'd imagine they can do quite a few of those for the budget of just one AAA game, and when it comes down to it, they are still only adding 10 or 12 games a month on average. They also tend to lean on smaller or more up and coming franchises when it comes to third-party day ones, or in the case of The Show and RS Extraction it was games that could directly benefit from getting a boost in day one players so the publishers likely offered agreeable terms to MS. I'd imagine that adding a huge single player game from a third-party day one on GP would be very expensive, but that's likely why we haven't seen it and might never see that happen. The big tent poles of the service will be first-party.

As far as pricing, look at the library Sony is offering with PS+ Extra a service that is $40 a year more than the base service or the deals that Epic offered and the numbers they provided in the Apple case. Again the comparison between TV/Movie services just doesn't hold up because the trajectory of revenue for a hit game and a hit show are quite different. The TV show has lucrative syndication and distribution options that keep the value of aging content high, where as with a game even the biggest games have diminished substantially in a year or two, with the majority of sales coming in the first six months for all but the most beloved evergreens.

 

[Kvally]

Phil Spencer says a lot of things.

He is a multi-millionaire head of Xbox working for a $2 trillion company. Pretty sure, based on Microsoft's 50 years in the business (and Phil's 35 years there), they know how to put together their forecast estimates more so than a forum goer.

4 actually.


1. Gfinity ESports (US)
2. Dense Pixels (US)
3. NewOnce (PL)
4. Screen Rant (US)

Along with being critically acclaimed.

Also, we're talking about it, and the person I quoted talked about it. You're talking about it.

At least get the facts right

Pentiment is a pretty awesome game. I haven't finished it yet though.

Back on topic, I have never been more excited to play Redfall. Only a few weeks to go!

 

[Topher]

Phil Spencer says a lot of things. Think logically about this, dude.

Would you spend $70 billions for Activision,$ 7.5 billions for Xenimax, and not done spending to stay at 15%?

A rising tide lifts all boats. Since Microsoft makes more money selling games than with subscription revenue, I don't know why they would be overly concerned about that ratio as long as they see growth overall.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

He is a multi-millionaire head of Xbox working for a $2 trillion company. Pretty sure, based on Microsoft's 50 years in the business (and Phil's 35 years there), they know how to put together their forecast estimates more so than a forum goer.

That kind of thinking didn't help Nokia etc. Even managers at big companies make mistakes and bet on the wrong horse. Intel / Facebook's Meta Universe anyone?

 

[Kvally]

That kind of thinking didn't help Nokia etc. Even managers at big companies make mistakes and bet on the wrong horse. Intel / Facebook's Meta Universe anyone?

Well head over to Redmond and run MS.