Bravo. Reminds me of the jail scene in Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Juice in the Hood of Ashtray's cellmate explaining Dr. Seuss' 1 fish 2 fish, red fish blue fish and the political statement that was being made. This is now comedy.
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Reggie:Making politicl statemnts are for other people todo, we want people tohave fun
- Thread starter AcademicSaucer
- Start date
Bravo. Reminds me of the jail scene in Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Juice in the Hood of Ashtray's cellmate explaining Dr. Seuss' 1 fish 2 fish, red fish blue fish and the political statement that was being made. This is now comedy.
Meanwhile another game they are releasing features a bad ass female bounty hunter and another featuring a pink vacuum orb. If they dont want to, they shouldnt simple stuff really. Dont like it? Dont buy there games.
Aaronrules380
Member
I mean I think it's important to note Reggie is literally just a PR guy and not actually a creator and so when he says shit like this it literally doesn't matter. As people have pointed out, Nintendo has released a number of games with very political messages such as both Xenoblade games
joe_zazen
Member
Hmmm...everything is political...
Forcing everything through an ideological lens to create a particular narrative is similar to how the very religious reduce the world to fit into their tiresome and dangerous framework. Tiresome because they preclude recognition of the mutability and limitations of human perception and cognition and rely on gross simplification; dangerous because it creates an us v them situation where the stakes are existential.
And what test is used to determine whether someone is for us or against us? On gaf, itseems to be a simplistic heuristic word test and not engagement with arguments or the person. And once someone has been identified as being on the other side, they are fair game, and a round of dehumanizing in/out group polarization occurs with accompanying police action.
Gaf is not on the road to enlightenment, lol, but thanks for the diversion guys.
Forcing everything through an ideological lens to create a particular narrative is similar to how the very religious reduce the world to fit into their tiresome and dangerous framework. Tiresome because they preclude recognition of the mutability and limitations of human perception and cognition and rely on gross simplification; dangerous because it creates an us v them situation where the stakes are existential.
And what test is used to determine whether someone is for us or against us? On gaf, itseems to be a simplistic heuristic word test and not engagement with arguments or the person. And once someone has been identified as being on the other side, they are fair game, and a round of dehumanizing in/out group polarization occurs with accompanying police action.
Gaf is not on the road to enlightenment, lol, but thanks for the diversion guys.
The more insidious thing that happens when prominent games industry people say stuff like this, is that they reproduce the incredibly toxic defense of the status quo ("Games should only be about fun!") that so many gamers use to defend games from criticisms related to politics. Just think of how many times you've heard people dismiss feminist criticisms with "this gender criticism is bullshit, games are all about fun!"
When Fils-Aime and other people say "we don't do politics, we just want to make fun games", they reproduce this false dichotomy between 'fun' and 'politics' and therefore reinforce the current status quo of videogames that anything that is political is not fun, so therefore anyone making a political statement or criticism about videogames are going against what games are/should be. So next time someone reads a criticism about Link being female, or Animal Crossing having LGBQ relationships, or having a person of color as the protagonist in their game, they'll refer to this false dichotomy that Reggie and many others reproduce when they set up this opposition between politics and fun. So it's sad to see a spokesperson for Nintendo taking this stance and re-affirming people in their belief that anyone "rocking the boat" is going against what games should be and can thereby perceived as a threat that should be shut down and silenced.
On another note: The excuse that Nintendo makes games for children and therefore isn't political is bullshit. Entertainment for children is incredibly political! Think of the lack of children's toy for minority groups, think of the heteronormative gendering by toys for children, think of the way LEGO has been criticized for their politics, and on and on. Shit, even looking at Nintendo's own "children games" have sexist politics in them. Reducing the life sphere of children as 'apolitical' is reductionistic and frankly, bullshit.
When Fils-Aime and other people say "we don't do politics, we just want to make fun games", they reproduce this false dichotomy between 'fun' and 'politics' and therefore reinforce the current status quo of videogames that anything that is political is not fun, so therefore anyone making a political statement or criticism about videogames are going against what games are/should be. So next time someone reads a criticism about Link being female, or Animal Crossing having LGBQ relationships, or having a person of color as the protagonist in their game, they'll refer to this false dichotomy that Reggie and many others reproduce when they set up this opposition between politics and fun. So it's sad to see a spokesperson for Nintendo taking this stance and re-affirming people in their belief that anyone "rocking the boat" is going against what games should be and can thereby perceived as a threat that should be shut down and silenced.
On another note: The excuse that Nintendo makes games for children and therefore isn't political is bullshit. Entertainment for children is incredibly political! Think of the lack of children's toy for minority groups, think of the heteronormative gendering by toys for children, think of the way LEGO has been criticized for their politics, and on and on. Shit, even looking at Nintendo's own "children games" have sexist politics in them. Reducing the life sphere of children as 'apolitical' is reductionistic and frankly, bullshit.
Except very few games (none, really) from big developers are some kind of Works of Pure Artistic Vision that have no politics behind them. Nothing wrong with criticizing these "artists" if/when they are being non-inclusive or handle particular topics badly or showcase some pretty annoying & even harmul stereotypes.
Adam_Vania
Banned
i'm coming from the other direction imo Far Cry 5 is marketing itself as political when in fact the series has had little to nothing to say while presenting a meaningless cardboard world of stereotypes you can shoot at. given the current media climate its a no-brainer that any writer or blogger could fabricate a thinkpiece using it to describe any opinion they wish. this game is being heavily marketed to thinkpiece writers. FC5 is more about marketing than politics. it just happens that right now the two realms are often presented as one and the same.
imo all art is political but this is a transcendental quality just from all art being made by humans who are always part of a social system. this is different from "making a statement" and the lesser form of marketing, wherein the author is drawing attention to something through their intent. in reality the intent means very little and the political dimension of a work is something worked out by (natch) the public.
imo all art is political but this is a transcendental quality just from all art being made by humans who are always part of a social system. this is different from "making a statement" and the lesser form of marketing, wherein the author is drawing attention to something through their intent. in reality the intent means very little and the political dimension of a work is something worked out by (natch) the public.
freethought
Member
I still think the old man made a Trump reference at the start of Zelda
Aaronrules380
Member
Clearly nothing political here /s
OK, skipping the actual argument between the lines here (that people with established societal privilege are in danger of becoming dehumanized)--
It appears that learning how to express your thoughts eloquently isn't the same as acknowledging other people's perspectives as valid, especially if they don't fit into the appearance-based class you've been placed in by society.
Essentially, the smartest people in the world can still be ignorant AF. Listen and believe other people.
Bad ass female hunter who was devolved into a crying. blobbering mess who can't do anything unless a man commands & allows her to in her latest game.
I'll buy "there games" because I do enjoy their gameplay, but I'm also allowed to criticize them when they do things badly or try to escape topics like "politics in video games" with dumb statements like Reggie's. Artists aren't beyond criticsm, your kind of ignorant fanboys should stop acting like they are perfect gods who can do no wrong, or that these creators have as much freedom to do what the fuck ever they want in game development that you think they do.
Narpas Sword0
Member
Aren't they publishing a game where the bad guy kidnaps a princess and forces her to marry him, unless her male hero puts a stop to it?
Also why is sending a socially conscious message the opposite of smiling?
Also why is sending a socially conscious message the opposite of smiling?
Albino_Yeti
Member
Great post. One of the best posts in this thread. You see this a lot in all media these days. Too many people make a big deal out of how 'progressive' their game/show/movie is because one of their characters is a minority, when the most progressive course of action is to just treat minorities as regular fucking people, instead of some checkbox on a list of "how to show everyone we are progressive!!!"But they do.
Put in a character that, if another dev had made the game, would have made a big deal out of how inclusive they were. Instead Nintendo treats him literally the same as any other character in the game
Include an all female society with a variety of skin tones, body types and personalities. Again, they make no "comment" on it or how progressive they are. They're simply treated like any other race in the game
Fun strives for a idealistic world. One where everyone can set aside their differences in the name of pleasure. Where we give up all conflict in order to sing Koombaya together. Not taking in to account that you're asking people to abandon parts of themselves temporarily as to not buck against the crowd. Or in layman's terms, not be a party-pooper.
Fun is damaging to the world at large, because it's intertwined with escapism. We as a collective society should be worried about our survival as a species. We should be concerend to threats to our proffesional, physical, and enviromental threats to our well being that are seriously happening right now. We can't do this if people decide to ignore the signs so they can see AntMan 6 or Transformers 12 or whatever escapist distraction is cool this week. No, this can only be done if every medium bands together for the greater good.
Fun is literally killing us all.
/s
Also a good point.
Nothing wrong with celebrating inclusiveness & variety by pointing it out. It's much worse when something has a gay character but it can't be made TOO obvious because two men kissing is a big no-no, let's just have a couple of meaningful looks, a slight touch that you'll miss if you blink an eye and maybe a comment that can maybe be construed as two same sex characters maybe perhaps being in a relationship.
That's just your confirmation bias. Feel free to read my posts in that thread.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
About the expected answer from a human mascot lol
It's hilarious that "gamerz" try to pretend there are no problems but literally every exec understands you're all potentially gamergaters and does their best not to offend walking wallets
It's hilarious that "gamerz" try to pretend there are no problems but literally every exec understands you're all potentially gamergaters and does their best not to offend walking wallets
This isn't the 90's anymore, DAD
we kill normal people with good intentions but bad methods now
I wonder how the business meetings go and if they actually say "this demographic might potentially be gamergaters, and we don't want to offend these walking wallets" :lol
I guess the people who make it to the top are also the ones who don't rock the boat and do the same as all the other decisionmakers think and say.
I can't really describe why the idea that everything is political bothers me but this comes pretty close. I don't get what value the idea engenders except to pit people against each other.
It's something we do to ease our boredom and reinforce our idea that we happen to be the right sort of human.
RichiRamjag
Member
I hate that Reggie gets any press time tbh.
Excellent post.
RumbleHumble
Banned
The idea behind understanding all actions as political actions is to ensure that people remain cognizant at all times about how the choices they do or do not take will still impact the world around them in minor or major ways. Every action (or inaction) is political because every action you choose to do or not do will have an effect on others, regardless of intention. That shouldn't paralyze you or keep you from doing things that you want to do, but it should still inform how you behave generally.
In this case, Nintendo can claim that they don't want to make political statements. That's fine, but even a statement of "non-statement" will still impact others, creating some political effect. Hell, political effect is happening in this very thread.
potatohead
Member
Agree great post
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Nintendo used to refuse depictions of alcohol, religion, or any male-female interaction PG-13 or above but naw, no politics
RumbleHumble
Banned
THIS
But they do.
Put in a character that, if another dev had made the game, would have made a big deal out of how inclusive they were. Instead Nintendo treats him literally the same as any other character in the game
Include an all female society with a variety of skin tones, body types and personalities. Again, they make no "comment" on it or how progressive they are. They're simply treated like any other race in the game
what's she drinkin'
UnemployedVillain
Member
Lol, well let's put it this way. A character to her left couldn't remember where she lived and Link just stared at her, and she got super defensive about it
SinCityAssassin
Member
She's fucking sauced, man.
Looks like an hot sauce bottle to me, it's probably Gerudo Beer though.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
I respect Reggie making this statement.
There are times when it's nice to play a game about a sensitive issue. Then there are times when I want to escape reality for a bit.
I associate Nintendo games with escaping reality and would appreciate them staying in that space.
There are times when it's nice to play a game about a sensitive issue. Then there are times when I want to escape reality for a bit.
I associate Nintendo games with escaping reality and would appreciate them staying in that space.
This is coming from the company that chose to put in two Toads over Peach (heck even another male Mario character) because her dress would be to hard to work with. Along with no same sex marriage in Tomodachi Life. The game's story itself doesn't have to be the thing making the statement.
heh haven't gotten to the Gerudos yet.
I've seen screenshots though.
I don't play 20 games a year, but I don't remember the last time I've seen a bunch of really jacked women in a game. Abs and all. But again, I don't play that many these days
maybe SFV....? But I don't remember anyone who's physique could be a legit NBA or NFL player. Interesting artistically to say the least.
MisterHero
Super Member
There are people in here suggesting they do, even posting screenshots.
Nintendo throws them in there from time to time. They just don't brag about them and make them key selling points.
I don't know why people expected the Nintendo shipping company to make political stances.
Wouldn't expect Fedex or UPS to make one, right?
Now the product that the Nintendo shipping companies (that some call NoA or NoE)handle have plenty of political messages that's for sure.
Should probably ask the people at Treehouse or the actual devs, i'm sure they'd have more interesting to say than the guy whose job is basically to make sure there's enough shipment and the marketing teams do a proper job.
Wouldn't expect Fedex or UPS to make one, right?
Now the product that the Nintendo shipping companies (that some call NoA or NoE)handle have plenty of political messages that's for sure.
Should probably ask the people at Treehouse or the actual devs, i'm sure they'd have more interesting to say than the guy whose job is basically to make sure there's enough shipment and the marketing teams do a proper job.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Nintendo is terrified of what parents will say to the media about instant message applications on Nintendo systems. Pretty much everything they say is to avoid controversy and present themselves as a incredibly blank slate to avoid "baggage" being attached to the Nintendo brand.
Reggie's statement may be silly, but it's all you're ever going to get out of Nintendo.
Reggie's statement may be silly, but it's all you're ever going to get out of Nintendo.
HellofaMouse
Member
Reggie needs to stop being salty for no reason and enjoy the red ocean.
Shit, forgot about that, but you're absolutely right.
It hits on a few different themes, as evidenced above, but the whole thing is basically one giant critique of Japanese work culture.