Nothing that I am aware of. People are impressed by what has been shown. How it will turn out is another matter. You alluded that the only thing impressive was the visuals which is not why or many others are excited about the last of us. If everything shown in the gameplay videos hold up in the final product this seems to be a glimpse of how next gen AI can evolve. Hell it does not even look that much better than UC2/3 from what I have seen for people to be excited because of the visuals.
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Replaying Jak 2, it's apparent Naughty Dog simply got lucky with Uncharted
- Thread starter teiresias
- Start date
Nothing that I am aware of. People are impressed by what has been shown. How it will turn out is another matter. You alluded that the only thing impressive was the visuals which is not why or many others are excited about the last of us. If everything shown in the gameplay videos hold up in the final product this seems to be a glimpse of how next gen AI can evolve. Hell it does not even look that much better than UC2/3 from what I have seen for people to be excited because of the visuals.
Doctor Decimate
Member
Jak II is a piece of shit. but Crash 3 was pretty good, and Crash 2 was a pretty competent version of the awful first game. as for the first Jak (which is also pretty good), i think it's more apt to call it a knock off of Banjo Kazooie than Mario.
they are indeed a company that makes games based entirely on existing ideas, which is why it always mystifies me when people hold them up as one of the best developers. that's just not fair to the others who actually innovate. the only time Naughty Dog did THAT was with Crash. and they got it dead wrong the first time (seriously, replay the first one.....it is a painful experience). the second one feels like a retread, minus the part where it's shit. it took them until the third entry to make that franchise truly good.
then they capped it off by copying Mario Kart
they are indeed a company that makes games based entirely on existing ideas, which is why it always mystifies me when people hold them up as one of the best developers. that's just not fair to the others who actually innovate. the only time Naughty Dog did THAT was with Crash. and they got it dead wrong the first time (seriously, replay the first one.....it is a painful experience). the second one feels like a retread, minus the part where it's shit. it took them until the third entry to make that franchise truly good.
then they capped it off by copying Mario Kart
Appollowexx
Member
I don't think the gameplay in a ND game will ever be classed as bad. Although I do agree with you on JAK 2 and I understand what you are saying. I just love their games for the fun characters, entertaining stories and spectacular set pieces - they fit in nicely between the indie games.
Next gen will be interesting, although I expect to see at least one more Uncharted before they change anything up.
Yeah, I know they're considered great games. They'd just bomb horribly if a new IP in that vein were released today.
SniperHunter
Banned
no he isn't. The gun play looks amazing, the AI looks good and if the level design turns out to be good. It will be a great game.
SolidSnakex
Member
Sure, as long as you're willing to ignore the fact that ND has barely talked about the visuals in TLoU and has mainly talked about how much emphasis they're putting into the AI. Which is a gameplay element that few developers make a priority these days. The game has been widely praised in previews for AI that might set a new standard.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I enjoy ND games since the days of crash so they not a one trick pony in my book .
In fact i am happy that UC does not focus on platforming as much as Crash and Jak .
In fact i am happy that UC does not focus on platforming as much as Crash and Jak .
What exactly looks "amazing" about the gunplay?
Until someone other than an ND employee puts the AI through its paces, I have no reason to trust ND with anything other than a script-fest.
I think you'll realize, when you step back and view the trends that plague this industry, that it's veery possible for them to get away with these mechanics for a long time. "gamers" will be quite content receiving the same old stuff with a new coat of paint. It's just what is perpetually popular. Find your comfort zone and spam it for all it's worth. Very rarely are "gamers" willing to take a chance on something new; Something they aren't familiar with, unless they are told so through genius marketing.
Yeah, this post says it better than I could have. The "GTA" aspect of the game was entirely superficial. I was disappointed with the shift in tone when it was first revealed, but I stopped caring after I played the game because the action and platforming was so flipping fantastic. It's easily one of the best games from last gen.
WrenchNinja
Member
Its not really that cryptic and its more an observation. Arent you the one who created a manual for RE6 so people could play it the way you do and have your idea of fun and constantly recommending hand positions for Kid Icarus so people can actually play the game. Its just funny contrasting that with your claim that "it looks cool if you play it just so".
SniperHunter
Banned
the hit response on the enemies, what else? FEAR perfected it, then it came out games like Killzone and Gears.
I dont know why gunplay was mentioned. It is not a shooter. You hardly have bullets. The AI seems out of this world though. This is the kind of improvement in AI we should have actually been seeing from pure stealth games like Splinter Cell. If it holds up in the final product then it will be a watershed moment. We will know the answer on May 7.
NightmareTrigger
Banned
Yes, it's just a shame that in the latter Jak games their misfires in the pursuit of a GTA-clone overworld actually overshadowed the characters, stories, and set pieces - at least for me anyway. The frustration and poor gameplay design choices of the overworld absolutely ruin the second game regardless of how well crafted the in-game cutscenes and characters are.
I could make some sort of snarky comment about how the need for me to write those tips for others is indicative of people's inability to figure out games with any meaningful mechanics or depth, and thus why they take so well to games that play themselves like the kind Naughty Dog makes instead.
Oh wait, I just did!
Have you watched any of the gameplay videos from previews where they explain all about the gameplay and how you can approach it? Many of your questions would be answered if you did. From where we are now, it just sounds like you are slagging off TLoU because it's being made by ND and "looks" like Uncharted to you.
Colonel Nasty
Member
I think Uncharted 2 is the only good one but ND should be applauded for bringing about these new ips. Hopefully Last of Us is more than just visuals.
Excluding the actual existence of the hubworld, there are the mission designs, tone, and gameplay. The vehicle jacking and police response are pretty much a stripped down version of the GTA system. The lackluster mission design especially early on when you're an errand boy and picking up moneybags in a timed manner across the city or the races throughout the populated city can be attributed to the GTA philosophy. The grimdark tone doesn't really need a more detailed analysis.
Best cutscene in the game . . . then you get to go outside and dodge pedestrians on your way to the next mission on the other side of the city . . . again.
SomeOneInaHat
Member
The driving always felt solid enough, especially the dynamic between high and low hover.
Giant Panda
Member
I wasn't asking you to care; why are you so abrupt and defensive about his opinion?
OK? I don't remember the gameplay being 'bad'. I mean they jumped when I pressed the jump button, turned at an appropriate speed when I turned the sticks and the mechanics that bound those things together (whatever physics engine they used for gravity and velocity combined with collision detection etc) never felt busted.
It's a different thing to say you didn't like the way those things meshed together. And that's fine. My thumbs agreed more with the R&C mechanics, for example.
I've never wanted to high-five a Panda so hard before.
I like the premise of TLoU and the world it's presenting. I just don't trust a dev who says their AI is so great but who is giving guided tours of it. If it's fun, just let people play it. If it was working as well as they said back at E3, why not let regular people go hands-on?
1. To call the Uncharted franchise a simple knock off is a gross injustice against Naughty Dog. Uncharted 1 was pretty standard fare, I will admit. But the second and third games have shown a level of ambition and polish unmatched by other developers. They may have started off just doing a simple third person shooter but they did not end up like that.
2. Did you play Jak 3? I'm playing Jak 3 atm. Its quite good. Jak and Daxter was also quite good, as you mentioned.
2. Did you play Jak 3? I'm playing Jak 3 atm. Its quite good. Jak and Daxter was also quite good, as you mentioned.
SniperHunter
Banned
Resident Evil 6 is shit, no amount of mechanics or depth can save that game...
Because the game was in development...it could have be prone to crashes etc.. Why would they lie anyway? Does this company have a history of fooling the audience? No they don't.
Refreshment.01
Member
While what you say is somewhat grounded in reality, it will be hard for people to take you seriously since you positioned yourself in one side of the argument.
While it's indeed a copycat franchise that's over appreciated there are redeeming qualities to it, chief of them being one of the most technological advanced PS3 games.
Your citing him as if anybody should care what he thinks.
There are more to controls than whether the buttons work.
Messofanego
Banned
Jak 2 was a pretty awful game, deal with it folks. People who enjoy it are simply masochists.
They took what was a fantastic mario 64 knock off and decided the colorful fun world they had created would work much better if it was bleak, dark , bland and filthy. Then they gave their silent protagonist a voice and made him angry and obnoxious, threw him in this same terrible bleak unhappy world and filled it with unfun missions, timed racing levels , no checkpoints and just generally I don't think anyone at naughty dog actually playtested the game before it came out. I'm really not sure who it was built for- almost as though GTA3 and devil may cry came out and ND said, hey these are kind of cool, let's make 75% of our new game rip off these ideas instead of simply making a proper sequel to jak 1, instead of using this interesting world let's make it dark and stupid because kids don't like fun these days.
I imagine my problems with the game largely stem from my age though, I grew up in the era where games were either fun or they weren't, had I been born 10 years later I might have been lead to believe that pointless gimmickry and 90's level "bad ass itude" were replacement for good , fun gameplay but sadly I just can't bring myself to enjoy games that aren't fun.
Uncharted is just all around a MUCH better series. I'll agree it's hardly the most interesting or original bunch of ideas but for the most part the uncharted games are fun games that are also pretty to look at. I can agree with the OP there, The Last of us does indeed look like someone REALLY liked the walking dead and thought, hey why don't we take the walking dead and mix it with classic survival horror elements as well as the uncharted engine ? Undoubtedly it'll work wonders.
I kind of wish ND would take a small break and take another stab at a character /cartoon action game though. Especially now that Ratchet and clank seems to be be pretty well finished.
- in short - the OP raises a valid point but perhaps does it with a bit too much flame baiting
They took what was a fantastic mario 64 knock off and decided the colorful fun world they had created would work much better if it was bleak, dark , bland and filthy. Then they gave their silent protagonist a voice and made him angry and obnoxious, threw him in this same terrible bleak unhappy world and filled it with unfun missions, timed racing levels , no checkpoints and just generally I don't think anyone at naughty dog actually playtested the game before it came out. I'm really not sure who it was built for- almost as though GTA3 and devil may cry came out and ND said, hey these are kind of cool, let's make 75% of our new game rip off these ideas instead of simply making a proper sequel to jak 1, instead of using this interesting world let's make it dark and stupid because kids don't like fun these days.
I imagine my problems with the game largely stem from my age though, I grew up in the era where games were either fun or they weren't, had I been born 10 years later I might have been lead to believe that pointless gimmickry and 90's level "bad ass itude" were replacement for good , fun gameplay but sadly I just can't bring myself to enjoy games that aren't fun.
Uncharted is just all around a MUCH better series. I'll agree it's hardly the most interesting or original bunch of ideas but for the most part the uncharted games are fun games that are also pretty to look at. I can agree with the OP there, The Last of us does indeed look like someone REALLY liked the walking dead and thought, hey why don't we take the walking dead and mix it with classic survival horror elements as well as the uncharted engine ? Undoubtedly it'll work wonders.
I kind of wish ND would take a small break and take another stab at a character /cartoon action game though. Especially now that Ratchet and clank seems to be be pretty well finished.
- in short - the OP raises a valid point but perhaps does it with a bit too much flame baiting
Square Triangle
Member
They had a sophomore slump with the second Jak, they learned their listen and from then on went to make amazing games.
To Far Away Times
Member
Maybe you'll be right. Naughty Dog will make their first ever gameplay-first game. They'll forget Uncharted's shit gameplay. They will get the shooting mechanics right for the first time ever. You'll be engaged in deep gameplay mechanics that build up and unfold naturally throughout the course of the game that go beyond shallow "AAA" cinematic game development and instead rival the best of indie and Japanese development. But I seriously doubt it.
I played all three games when each was originally released on the PS2. I was around to debate on GAF when the very first trailer for the first game was released. I believe it was this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utLwGKIUMpU
Many a heated debate since ND was making many claims at the time about how other developers just had no idea how to properly stream textures on the PS2 and that their "mystery game" would show everyone how it was done (ie. how to properly get good textures on PS2 - yeah, it was a comparison thing with the Dreamcast at the time I guess).
WrenchNinja
Member
I thought you wrote that manual because Capcom was too cheap to include one and too stupid to create scenarios in the game that made use of the mechanics other than low hanging bars for you to slide under. Meaningful is not a word that would describe RE6s mechanics. But speaking of games that play themselves...
SolidSnakex
Member
The OP claims that ND is a one trick pony. Every series that they made since the PSone has been successful both critically and commercially. And they're all rather different from one another.
LOL, yeah, sure, sliding is only used to get under low-hanging bars. Brilliant.
SniperHunter
Banned
Crash 1 - 3, CTR, Jak 1 - 3, Jak racing say hi! And Uncharted gameplay is "shit" by any stretch of the imagination, oh sure the game was made to attract casual gamers for sure, but it isn't "shit."
dragonflys545
Member
So basically Bungie got lucky with Halo otherwise they are irrelevant, and Epic with Gears of War because no one cares about Unreal Tournaments anymore.
highrider
Banned
Yep. It also takes a clearly adversarial tone. Might be worthy of discussion, but that doesn't exactly scream rational discourse.
SomeOneInaHat
Member
The Daxter PSP games took those kinds of levels and made a game out of it, it was fantastic.
WrenchNinja
Member
Only time you need it, yup.
I, for one, would love to have UT '99 come back.
Man, I bet your Mercs scores are through the roof.