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Report: AMD expects “Big Navi” to compete with 3070, not 3080

But my pony said ps5 will be faster than 3070, so how a GPU with the same architecture and double the CU count, only expected to compete with 3070? I call it fake. FAAAAKE !!! (n) :messenger_pouting:
 

3liteDragon

Member
Am I the only one who thinks this is just a setup and AMD’s gonna blow our minds when they reveal Big Navi? ☹
 
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Md Ray

Member
The PS4 and XBone both use AMD right now. Do console ports perform better on AMD or Nvidia now?
Yes. Big advantage for AMD on PC and console is devs leveraging AMD's async compute. I mean off the top of my head if you look at RDR2, RE2, 3, HZD, I believe even Death Stranding... They all perform better on AMD than Nvidia equivalent. RX 580 which is basically an RX 480 (which also happens to be inside PS4 Pro albeit with some extra features but clocked lower), is a GTX 1060 competitor. And those titles run up to 10-15fps higher on 580 than 1060.
 
if a minimum 72 CU active CU Big Navi just had 3070 performance, AMD would have a massive scaling issue.


while i don't think that would be impossible, it seems very very unlikely to me after they totally overworked their GPU front end.
 
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Griffon

Member
I mean, if they can pair it with more VRAM than the ridiculously low 8GB of the 3070, I might be interested.
 

7er0th

Neo Member
Outside of AMD, nVidia probably has a better idea of what's coming with RDNA2 than most. The pricing of the 3080 implies nVidia expect AMD to be competitive, more or less.

Coreteks' record isn't the greatest... where's the predicted 'Traversal coprocessor' [June 13]?
 

geordiemp

Member
Coreteks is a crackhead just like MLID.

Pricing on the 3070/3080 would suggest to me that Nvidia expects something decent from RDNA 2. I don’t expect RDNA 2 to match Ampere in regards to RT, but I’m not going to underestimate RDNA 2 like I did RDNA 1.

I agree, Nvidia have priced agressive for a reason.

AMD cards will be on a better node, and likley up to 2.0 - 2.2 Ghz depending on cooling means all those L2 and L1 caches feeding shaders much faster performance will be interesting, I would think if its 80 CU it will rival 3080 in raster performance. but we shall see.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Lisa being too occupied buying fancy clothes while her new gpus can't even compete with old gpus...

 

fermcr

Member
AMD surprised Intel in the CPU market, but they don't stand a chance against Nvidia with their GPU, unfortunately.
Nvidia aren't playing around...
 
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skneogaf

Member
I thought their previous card was able to keep up with the 2080 or am I mistaken?
If it does then surely jumping to 2080ti speed is easily achieved so big navi would at least do 25 percent more or something than 2080ti speed so 3080 ish or a bit slower.

I hope they can compete as nvidia need pushing to release a 3080 super/ti with 20GB of gddr6x.
 

llien

Member
This is a re-hash of a pre-Ampere reveal comment by the dude who got a number of points right (Including A100 spec one year before reveal and good pricing on Ampere lower range).

He literally said:
1) AMD chip is much faster than A104 (3070), to a point 3070Ti makes no sense (cannot reach it)

That's it.


PS
In other news, AMD teases:
 
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llien

Member
3070 performance for 300 monies?
No, although much faster than 3070 for 500 is likely (and with 16GB).
3070-ish perf (up to 10% slower) for 400

All AMD GPU launches for years now have been a disappointment.
5700 series rocked (trounced 2060/2070 and even upset 2080, forcing NV to react).
A 250mm2 chip.

Big Navi should be either 485mm2 or 505mm2. Significantly smaller than A102 (627mm2) but on a better process.

It would help if gamers would use own eyes and, god forbid, brains, instead of trusting that curious DF Truppe, that "for some reason" got that exclusive preview and claimed that if you go far enough from your screen, you could not notice the difference between 720p and 4k. It's a bloody upscaling, with all the shit that comes with it, like, you know, artifacts that DF "for some reason" did not see.

I thought their previous card was able to keep up with the 2080 or am I mistaken?
Was 10%-ish behind. In that sense, so will the next gen.
It's just, people don't click as eagerly if drama levels are low.

The other issue is that AMD doesn’t seem to have dedicated tensor cores in RDNA2, instead relying on the compute cores to help enable ray tracing
Dude, where does "tensor cores are used for ray tracing" come from pretty please?

her new gpus can't even compete with old gpus...
What on earth are you on about? Even as is, 5700XT at 350 Euro is not too bad vs 3070 (which is 30%-ish faster)
 
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i really wouldn't call coreteks an idiot. i think he is well informed and kinda presents plausible scenarios for the further future and has a broad understanding whats important and whats not. guy made some brilliant videos. where he lacks is detailed technical understanding. that makes him not a good analyst for what's happening in the here and now.

the tragic thing about him is, that he doesn't clearly draw a line between what is his speculation and what is actually backed by sources.
 

Orta

console wars 2020 - participant
Same old AMD. Don't expect too much and you won't be disappointed.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
No, although much faster than 3070 for 500 is likely (and with 16GB).
3070-ish perf (up to 10% slower) for 400


5700 series rocked (trounced 2060/2070 and even upset 2080, forcing NV to react).
A 250mm2 chip.

Big Navi should be either 485mm2 or 505mm2. Significantly smaller than A102 (627mm2) but on a better process.


It would help if gamers would use own eyes and, god forbid, brains, instead of trusting that curious DF Truppe, that "for some reason" got that exclusive preview and claimed that if you go far enough from your screen, you could not notice the difference between 720p and 4k. It's a bloody upscaling, with all the shit that comes with it, like, you know, artifacts that DF "for some reason" did not see.


Was 10%-ish behind. In that sense, so will the next gen.
It's just, people don't click as eagerly if drama levels are low.


Dude, where does "tensor cores are used for ray tracing" come from pretty please?


What on earth are you on about? Even as is, 5700XT at 350 Euro is not too bad vs 3070 (which is 30%-ish faster)
You forget that nvidia has dlss, so even if their big navi is on par with a 3070\2080ti it's gonna run games much worse because they don't have such a good upscaling methods.

So yes, their new gpu it's gonna perform worse than 2070super, 2080, 2080super, 2080ti etc, these are all old gpus.

Let's just hope the rumor is wrong and that big navi is more close to a 3080 but even then, without dlss they are still gonna be on the low end of the performance in that price range.

I know that you dislike dlss, but this is where we at.
 
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Armorian

Banned
Will be interesting to see if console ports perform better on AMD or Nvidia.

They didn't this gen for the most part.

AMD always aimed at 2080ti performance, now 3070 is around that so it's logical that BN will be competing with that. AMD is always fucked.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I can count on one hand the games that i played that runned better on amd hardware during this gen...and people call me 3 fingers wolf...
 
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Shmunter

Gold Member
You forget that nvidia has dlss, so even if their big navi is on par with a 3070\2080ti it's gonna run games much worse because they don't have such a good upscaling methods.

So yes, their new gpu it's gonna perform worse than 2070super, 2080, 2080super, 2080ti etc, these are all old gpus.

Let's just hope the rumor is wrong and that big navi is more close to a 3080 but even then, without dlss they are still gonna be on the low end of the performance in that price range.
You’d hope they would have foresight into the reconstruction future. There really needs to be a more generic approach to this too, being applicable to select titles only is a bit of a bummer.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
You’d hope they would have foresight into the reconstruction future. There really needs to be a more generic approach to this too, being applicable to select titles only is a bit of a bummer.
Are you talking about nvidia?

Yeah, for now dlss is still not ready yet, few games use it and most of the times is not even there on launch, i don't give fuck how good it is if only comes out when i already completed the game and never gonna play again, maybe people like to jerk off on post launch benchmarks, surely not me.

But i heard that now it's gonna be more easy for devs to implement dlss in their games, let's hope it's true because this is the real deal, more than limited rtx implementation.
 
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Shmunter

Gold Member
Are you talking about nvidia?

Yeah, for now dlss is still not ready yet, few games use it and most of the times is not even there on launch, i don't give fuck how good it is if only comes out when i already completed the game and never gonna play again, maybe people like to jerk off on post launch benchmarks, surely not me.

But i heard than now it's gonna be more easy for devs to implement dlss in their games, let's hope it's true because this is the real deal, more than limited rtx implementation.
Yes, hoping amd (and Nvidia) implement reconstruction applicable to everything, not needing to be bespoke coded in.
 

FireFly

Member

Well, there it is. This is only a rumor but it’s the first one so far about Big Navi. Let’s be absolutely honest, we still know next to nothing about Big Navi as AMD has been pretty mum but the fact that they had absolutely nothing to say about the RTX 3000 series announcement event other than “Ryzen CPU’s go well with them” is probably not a good sign. The word going around in the industry now is that AMD is quietly signaling to board partners to expect around 3070 performance from Big Navi, and that they are unable to use GDDR6X because that was a joint Nvidia-Micron project so Big Navi will be paired with just GDDR6.

To be quite frank, this was expected. AMD was already rumored to be planning on being around or better than 2080 Ti performance with Big Navi, and that’s exactly the performance Nvidia is promising from 3070. It looks like the 3080 will be untouchable, to say nothing of the monster that is the 3090. AMD fans should be used to no competition with Nvidia on the high end though, as the last AMD GPU which actually competed with Nvidia at the very top end was the 290X back in 2013.
First you say this is the first rumour about Big Navi, then you say it was previously rumoured to be around 2080 Ti performance! I see you didn't quote kopite7kimi, the one person with a succesful record of accurate predictions – including core counts for Ampere (based on old SM design) and a return to value-driven pricing from Nvidia– when he claimed big navi will be "very strong".

Regarding the Coreteks rumour, which version of Big Navi is being referenced, Navi 21 or Navi 22? Because based on what we know so far Navi 22 is designed to compete against the 2080 Ti, so if partners are being briefed about this chip, the rumour makes perfect sense. We have no idea if partners are being briefed about Navi 21 at all, and it seems both Nvidia and AMD are trying to keep as much information out of the hands of AIBs as possible. (Some of the AIB's published info about Ampere was actually wrong!)

It would help if gamers would use own eyes and, god forbid, brains, instead of trusting that curious DF Truppe, that "for some reason" got that exclusive preview and claimed that if you go far enough from your screen, you could not notice the difference between 720p and 4k. It's a bloody upscaling, with all the shit that comes with it, like, you know, artifacts that DF "for some reason" did not see.
DF covers the DLSS artifacts in their videos (halos around edges, loss of detail on text) and shows them at 8x magnification.
 
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llien

Member
they don't have such a good upscaling methods.
All they need is give that "some reason" for good reviews for enough developers then, as gamers seem to be totally un capable of using own eyes.

DF covers the DLSS artifacts in their videos (halos around edges, loss of detail on text) and shows them at 8x magnification.
Without noticing stuff spotted by GAF after briefly checking the video 10 minutes into discussion. Oh, and that lovely sprinkling with "but if you move far far away", among other things, totally doesn't hint at why they got that exclusive Ampere preview.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
All they need is give that "some reason" for good reviews for enough developers then, as gamers seem to be totally un capable of using own eyes.


Without noticing stuff spotted by GAF after briefly checking the video 10 minutes into discussion. Oh, and that lovely sprinkling with "but if you move far far away", among other things, totally doesn't hint at why they got that exclusive Ampere preview.
I only tried dlss 1.0 on control amd i didn't liked it at all, it was far from native 4k.

But i heard too much people (even close italian friends from other forums who i trust) saying that in most of the case, dlss 2 is on par if not superior to native resolution. (I don't care for df, never even watched their video if that can make you happy)

Yes, maybe there is some rare artifacts here and there, but when i can play with near 4k quality 60 frame and high details on my 10 tf gpu i think i can close one eye...

I have to reinstall control or metro on my pc and see with my eyes, but like i said, people were talking shit about dlss 1.0 but they are all on board with 2.0 version, did nvidia paid everyone? Hard to tell...
 
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M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
With current market where people dumping 2080Ti for peanuts, this is really fucking bad situation for AMD.
 
Only interesting for a few people. The vast majority of pc gamers will have cards much weaker than a 3070.

yeah the vast majority. But milions will still have 3070 and 3080. Just like they do now, with 2070,2080 and 2080Ti. Those are the main bunch buying lots of new games. And since a 3070 is so cheap, it means a 3060 could launch at 300 dollars, pummeling both consoles hard in performance. And you could build a stronger than consoles PC with that card for not much more money. And you have above console performance alongside a million other benefits of pc gaming.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Well, that's ok, I guess.
Dude i could say that i tried myself and was exceptional, is this what i get for being honest?

Even with near 4k quality and rare artifacts doesn't change the point.

Do you use only ultra setting even if they are 1-5% better than high? No because you are not a moron.

Same for dlss, i can use native 4k and put even a 3090 on his knees in less than 2 years or i can just use the smart way with an acceptable loss in rare circumstances and even a gain in some others.
 
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martino

Member
Pre-data rumors as always are bad and give use more infos on people level of bias thant anything else....
 

llien

Member
GymWolf GymWolf thing is, you are hyping something that contradicts your personal experience.
Have you tried "old school" upscaling? Do you see may artifacts?
The DF wording could be applied to images upscaled by... TV sets and it would still be true.

Medium sized navi
485mm2 or 505mm2, not really medium, frankly, but smaller than 3090's 627mm2, although on superior process.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
GymWolf GymWolf thing is, you are hyping something that contradicts your personal experience.
Have you tried "old school" upscaling? Do you see may artifacts?
The DF wording could be applied to images upscaled by... TV sets and it would still be true.


485mm2 or 505mm2, not really medium, frankly, but smaller than 3090's 627mm2, although on superior process.
I just can't believe that people who were shitting on dlss1.0 are now in the 2.0 bandwagon for no good reason...

Also i watched some comparison in other forums from people that i trust (people who helped me building my rig) and the difference between native and upscaled was indeed very small if not completely absent.

It's my fault for being a lazy mofo with pc gaming, i could download metro and control and see by myself but i'm just the type of guy who doesn't care about returning on already completed games just to see a benchamark with better performance, i'm an atypical pc gamer :ROFLMAO:
 

Dr.D00p

Member
When it comes to AMD and GPU's, actual performance levels are only half the story, the other half is their 2nd rate feature set and Driver 'quirks' which means they could offer a card with 3080 performance levels for $100 less and I still wouldn't touch one.

I'm heavily into emulation and the fact is just about all of the problems you will encounter with the graphics side of things in emulators are related to AMD's funky drivers.
 

thelastword

Banned
So many team green guys here pretending that they had high expectations from AMD and now they are disappointed, so typical...Besides, this is a rumor and people are taking it as fact, running with it. The rumors before Ampere said it was 5000+ cuda cores....AMD has been silent for a reason, when they show their wares we will see and discuss, whether it's as powerful as 3080 or below it. The crazy thing is, people have not even seen native benchmarks from the 3080, but they are already thinking these cards can't be touched. You guys are letting the NV PR, blown up numbers and marketing fool you.....It's as if nobody learned anything from Turing......It just works, the more you buy is the more you save.......You just bought a 2080ti that we marketed the goat tits out of, no problem, we have another one for $1500 with 2x this and 5x that, keep on buying to save.....And what will they be doing with these expensive cards, playing at 1080p footprint 4K-8K DLSS to boast frames.......

As I said we will see how all this blows up, when all opponents are in the ring.......I hope people won't buy these cards with low vram, 8-10GB and when AMD offers more, justify again.....I'm upgrading my 3080 to the 3080ti Dawg, because you know Nvidia has more cards in the wing for you to buy as a reaction to what AMD comes up with. So you buy these cards now and in two months they will up the vram on the 3070 and 3080 and tell you it's $100 less or available at the same price of the launch 3080 and 3070, but again Jensen knows what he is saying and he knows his fans. The more you buy.......Jensendealwithitscreechingoffinthelatestferrari.gif
 
So many team green guys here pretending that they had high expectations from AMD and now they are disappointed, so typical...Besides, this is a rumor and people are taking it as fact, running with it. The rumors before Ampere said it was 5000+ cuda cores....AMD has been silent for a reason, when they show their wares we will see and discuss, whether it's as powerful as 3080 or below it. The crazy thing is, people have not even seen native benchmarks from the 3080, but they are already thinking these cards can't be touched. You guys are letting the NV PR, blown up numbers and marketing fool you.....It's as if nobody learned anything from Turing......It just works, the more you buy is the more you save.......You just bought a 2080ti that we marketed the goat tits out of, no problem, we have another one for $1500 with 2x this and 5x that, keep on buying to save.....And what will they be doing with these expensive cards, playing at 1080p footprint 4K-8K DLSS to boast frames.......

As I said we will see how all this blows up, when all opponents are in the ring.......I hope people won't buy these cards with low vram, 8-10GB and when AMD offers more, justify again.....I'm upgrading my 3080 to the 3080ti Dawg, because you know Nvidia has more cards in the wing for you to buy as a reaction to what AMD comes up with. So you buy these cards now and in two months they will up the vram on the 3070 and 3080 and tell you it's $100 less or available at the same price of the launch 3080 and 3070, but again Jensen knows what he is saying and he knows his fans. The more you buy.......Jensendealwithitscreechingoffinthelatestferrari.gif
Don't worry Ampere won't make your PS5 run any slower.
 

Ellery

Member
Honestly doesn't sound right, because the 3070 really isn't that good that AMD couldn't have expected that kind of performance.

People are overestimating the 3070 based on the 3080 benchmarks. The 3070 is significantly smaller to the point where the 3080 actually has the better price/performance (based on hardware).

And the 3070 is like 5-10% over the 2080 Ti? If AMD can't have something for the 2080 Ti / 3070 then it is genuinely sad, but looking at the 5700 XT and how close it is to the RTX 2080 then there is no need to worry.

BigNavi probably won't be good enough for the RTX 3090 and maybe slower than the RTX 3080, but both of those are gigantic power hungry beast cards and not some environmental friendly cards. They go well above 300W and both consume significantly more than the RTX 2080 Ti, which already was a 260W power hungry card, but the RTX 3080 wants 320W and the 3090 350W.


Look at the AMD 5700 XT. It is a 399$ card with a 251mm² die size (that is very small) based on the RDNA1 architecture and now we are getting a bigger card with a more mature manufacturing node and a new architecture (RDNA2) and somehow that card is expected to be a gigantic failure and weak?

If I wouldn't know any better one could think this is Nvidia propaganda to sell more 30 Series cards at the price those cards are currently at before AMD releases their cards.

However I agree that if AMD doesn't have a proper answer to RayTracing and especially DLSS it might be a generation where the feature set easily decides in favor of Nvidia.
 

llien

Member
So, with that Doom demo, we have 3080 at 2080Ti + 20-30%.
As expected.

The only unexpected bit is modest, no hikes, no Fools Edition bullshit pricing.

But only up to 3080.
Hm, what could have possibly caused it.




I just can't believe that people who were shitting on dlss1.0 are now in the 2.0 bandwagon for no good reason...
The <resolution> DLSS is a nonsensical concept that is highly misleading.
There is also something wrong with hyping technology that in your personal experience actually sucks.
As if you were victim of FUD campaign or something.

Peace and Harmony.

Honestly doesn't sound right, because the 3070 really isn't that good that AMD couldn't have expected that kind of performance.
Between 3070 and 3080, closer to 3080 (so that 3070Ti is still beaten) is what was leaked by that spot on at times dude.
 
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