fabricated backlash
Member
the Perfect Dark media controversy must've scared them shitless back then.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Report claims Nintendo management scheming to get rid of Iwata
- Thread starter scytheavatar
- Start date
the Perfect Dark media controversy must've scared them shitless back then.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
LMAO @ the Nintendo guys saying "i'd rather quit gaming than support Nintendo if they were to go third party", smells of lies... as soon as they saw Mario/Metroid running on better hardware they'd lose their resolve. And even if some guys did manage to keep their word and alienate themselves from the gaming world forever and ever, the number would be too miniscule to really make a difference.
Well yeah, they aren't just going to make that turn around in one gen, but they have to start somewhere.
Look at today. A HD Gamecube game is coming to all platforms but Nintendo. Ubisoft, who has always supported the Wii U, isn't putting this year's Assassin's Creed on it.
The path they're going down now is a path that doesn't include third party support. They will not survive on the strength of Nintendo games alone. Unless they catch lighting in a bottle again like they did with the Wii and discover some huge, new audience (which I think is impossible now thanks to mobile games), they're going to need those massive third party titles if they want to sell hardware. COD, Battlefield, Madden, FIFA, GTA, Assassin's Creed... these games are as big/bigger than Nintendo's first party properties at this point. These are the games that are selling PS4s at a higher rate than Mario and Mario Kart are selling Wii Us. In 2014, if you don't have the best version of the most popular games on the market, you're fucked. That's where Nintendo is right now. Hell, that's where Microsoft is right now, to a lesser extent.
If they put out a new console that can't run the new GTA or COD as well/better than the competition, I think they're making a big mistake. That audience is too large to ignore. With the Wii audience gone and not coming back, to ignore the shooter audience is crazy in this day and age.
astrogamer
Member
Most of those responses were if Nintendo turned into a Mobile developer not just 3rd party. Then comes the issue of surviving in this current console climate or changing the kind of games they make. If turning 3rd party came at the cost of our favorite games, then our game purchasing habits would probably diminish greatly.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
I don't think they'd change the kind of games they make if they were to go third party, they know that their fans would follow them for their well known IP's. And the rest of the gaming world would be able to partake in the fun on their preferred system of choice.
The Maverick
Member
The best part would be that everyone else would finally be playing Nintendo games and the company would be rolling in money. Their departure from gaming would mean nothing.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
That's why they need to change their business habits and try to reach the competition in all the issues you mentioned. They don't need to give up. Nintendo fanboys try to claim they are a limited resources company, too small to compete, to defend their current direction, but is bullshit. Nintendo not only can compete but can also dominate, if they actually have the will for it. They're one of the most prolific companies in the bizz and have a huge bank roll. However, they don't have such ambition under Iwata's wings.
By the way, the excuses about investing into hardware performance is dangerous and unprofitable and would harm Nintendo is no longer valid, as Sony were able to turn PS4 profitable very early: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=823567&highlight=
If Nintendo dissolved into another S-E, I'd be done with them.
3/4ths of the games I like wouldn't exist because after cutting 40% of the company there would be zero incentive to make offbeat games to supplement hardware. They'd be a Mario/Zelda (maybe)/Pokemon factory for all time.
Father_Brain
Banned
I'm not talking about hardware performance at all, though. That's the easy part.
They simply don't have unlimited time or unlimited resources, and we're talking probably 5-10 years to sufficiently address the weak points I mentioned (and that's charitably assuming that the dedicated console market doesn't continue to contract). I think Nintendo remaining in the hardware market at all is probably a mistake, but they have at least a slightly better chance of winning back consumers from iOS/Android, given the greater demographic overlap.
In other words: they're running out of time to salvage the hardware business, if that's even possible, and they're simply much too far behind Sony/MS to compete with them for the Western core market. If I thought they could pull together an attractive core-oriented console in 2-3 years, it might be worth it, but it's just too damn late.
Rolling int it, especially when the game prices get pushed down by 90% and 30% of the money they do make goes to Apple. Yeah, sure.
Pancakes R Us
Member
Agreed. You know the crazy fanboys? These guys are even crazier. HARDCORE NUTJOB FANS who find that <insert company here> can do absolutely no wrong.
InsaneZero
Member
Naturally! Being a third party publisher with a primary focus on console gaming is a surefire way to massive profits and success. I mean, just look at all that explosive success publishers have universally garnered during the previous generation, and look at how many more third party publishers have joined the party in this new generation.
I mean, it's not like it takes a development team as large as Nintendo in its entirety to make one game nowadays. Restructuring the company to account for a massive loss in revenue streams shouldn't be too bad, especially since we have so many PS4 and XB focused publishers bringing in larger revenue streams. And because the additional costs associated with quality control, patching, approval are nothing more than a myth, they can afford to push out the same quantity of software at their original rate (Sony and Microsoft is generous enough to reshuffle their entire release schedule just to accommodate Nintendo, I'm sure).
Really, Nintendo would be better off in mobile gaming if they really had to go third-party.
I still think it'd be a good idea for NCL to take a leaf out of Apple/Google's book (universal OS, hardware with similar architecture) and Valve's Steam book (online account, Miiverse, eShop, VC and whatnot) for their next handheld & console.
Father_Brain
Banned
It's pretty clear that that's the direction they're moving in. I think it'll be too little, too late given the shifting market, but hey.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Ah... the crux of the argument.
This would be catastrophic for Nintendo as many posters already explained on many different threads regarding this issue.
Father_Brain
Banned
I agree with those posters, insofar as the hypothetical third-party transition would involve a major restructuring for Nintendo and could go very badly. I don't agree that that outcome is a certainty, or that that renders staying in what I see as a collapsing dedicated hardware market a better option.
Sony is, at least for now, relatively insulated from the dedicated market's contraction. But that's only possible because they've spent three previous generations building a brand and ecosystem catering to core gamers. Nintendo would be effectively starting from scratch if they tried to pursue that market.
I personally don't think it's too late for this direction, to be honest. Having astore front similar to that of Steam will be a bloody good idea for Nintendo.
Father_Brain
Banned
I think the age of dedicated devices is rapidly coming to an end. Sony (and to a lesser extent, MS) will be able to hold out for a while longer, but only because they've built a core ecosystem over many years and multiple generations, whereas Nintendo simply doesn't have any foundation to build on outside their own loyal fanbase.
Nintendo is not capable of producing a competitive smart device or a competitive core console, and they certainly can't compete with iOS/Android on software pricing. So while the shared NintendOS ecosystem would be a laudable move, I think the underlying market has just changed too much for that to save their hardware business.
JordanN
Banned
Ironically, Mr. Yamauchi put it best. A console is just a box that plays games.
I think it's just a phase since Nintendo is still making hardware so they wont admit it. But rationally speaking, a Nintendo game could be enjoyed on any platform.
Edit: These same people might already own a Playstation/XBox or PC so why are they giving up gaming anyway if Nintendo showed up on all of them?
LinkToTheFuture
Member
Iwata is a great man. Everyone has their mistake periods. If losing Iwata means nintendo becomes mostly smartphone division then I say no. I also believe nintendo is strongest with their great hardware/software offerings. Great games have & are continuing to come to wii U. I believe it is only going to get better.
Another rather recent management failure: They put all teams onto Wii U projects and let the 3DS, which had been somewhat (and compared to the Wii U infinitely more) successful, starve for new content. While Wii U hardware and software sales remain low, 3DS sales are also going down.
Throw good money after bad, that's where Nintendo currently excells.
Throw good money after bad, that's where Nintendo currently excells.
Cygnus X-1
Member
Iwata got recently reelected by the shareholders. His score was better than last year. No way he will be replaced anytime soon.
protomouse
Member
Sum up my feelings quite nicely, you did.
MisterGrey3000
Member
You have to be.
It's not hard to see that NGC and N64 were half-serving consoles aimed at two different demos while hardly managing to appeal to anyone.
You keep denying that the NGC was positioned as a console for young males, but their is plenty of evidence that says that it was; do you honestly believe that Nintendo was solely positioning the console as some sort of family/casual machine with commercials like that?? Also why would they have cared about securing the so called "Capcom 5" if they were solely focused on making the NGC out to be a family machine??
The NGC was definitely Nintendo's attempt at playing Sony/MS's ball game (while also trying to be faimly/casual-aimed) and they lost...big time.
Again it's no coincidence that 7th gen Nintendo started kicking all kinds of ass when they put all of their resources into just focusing on the family/casual market with cheap software/hardware, great family/casual-aimed software, simple hardware design, and clear marketing/branding ("Buy our console if you don't wanna play violent cinematic machismo-filled games with a weird and complicated controller")
Vocal Orgasmizzle
Banned
Let's be real, they all need to go.
Mysterious
Banned
I really want to play a Halo game but I don't want to buy an Xbox. PlayStation has all the other games anyway (running better too), so I should be able to play Halo on PlayStation. It would obviously get significantly better sales too (maybe even rival Call of Duty). Obviously iOS is almost as powerful as an Xbox One, as shown as WWDC2014, so power is no longer an issue. So Xbox One is going to be weaker than the next iPad. I should be able to play my Xbox games on more powerful hardware. And can you imagine the sales of Halo on iOS? Top 10 charter for months for sure.
Also if TLOU sold ~7M on just one platform, imagine the sales if it were multiplatform? TLOU was released too late in the generation that the revenue from selling only a few consoles to those players which had TLOU as a system seller would be easily eclipsed by multiplatform sales revenue. Think of all the money Sony left on the table by not going multiplatform.
And imagine Mario Kart 8 sales if it were released on WiiU/PS4/X1/iOS? You can use the iPhone or iPad gyroscope to control the game as if it were a Wii Remote and just touch the item to use it.
See how stupid all of this sounds? Your comment is incredibly stupid.
Entryhazard
Banned
IIRC Twilight Princess is the best seller in the series. Also, ALBW is doing well
Mysterious
Banned
Last I heard, it's performing below the DS games.
MisterGrey3000
Member
It doesn't matter what you think.
They'd be splitting their fan base while also selling the same amount of units that they often sell on their failure consoles with no real chance for growth.
Young western males don't want to play family/casual-focused software on their big beefy PlayStations and Xboxs; if they were truly starving for those kinds of games on their respective hardware, Nintendo-like stuff wouldn't bomb so badly (but it does)
The only way Nintendo could truly compete on those two consoles is if they completely change the design principles of their software and put most of their family/casual-aimed software (Mario, Pikmin, DKC, Kirby, etc.) on the back burner.
The only way that a 3rd party Nintendo could kind of stay 1st party Nintendo is if they create a more robust "Nintendo E-shop" on PC while also making software for phones/tablets (You know, places where their audience actually plays games)
Source? Where did you here this?
It doesn't seem like that game is done selling yet; I could easily see it moving into the 3-4 million range like every other Zelda not named OoT or TP.
thisisvlad
Member
Reading over this and every other Nintendo-opinion-time threads, it's clear that there are several themes on missed opportunities:
- Virtual console
- 3rd party relations
- Western-market orientation
- Online capabilities and services
- etc..
These are all strong, and there's plenty of evidence to link to these as main drivers of Nintendo's current fiscal position. What I think we're missing from the discussion, however, is the most glaring missed opportunity by Iwata as a CEO: lack of a global customer relationship management system (CRM.)
Let me posit the perspective this way: if I'm on Nintendo's marketing team today and I see our sales figures cross-generation I ask myself 2 immediate questions:
"Where did my market go?" --> "Who (as in name/address/etc. info) exactly left?"
If I can't answer the second question, then at best I can only perform blanket marketing tactics (aka promotions, sales, mall campaigns) at approximations of my customer base. In other words, my visibility into customer retention is poor, because I don't actually know who they are.
At Nintendo's peak market years: DS & Wii; Iwata should have instituted a global CRM system to track who exactly are his customers, their needs and ultimately what offers they can provide in order for them to continue becoming Nintendo customers. Had they done this well in 2009; by today they'd be able to actually go out to every ex-Wii and DS owner (that haven't jumped on the next-gen) and give them targeted offers to continue the ride.
I see this as a great misstep, because Nintendo's fundamental strategy: "increase the # of video game players" requires a need to retain those users into your ecosystem. Thus, if you want to increase the entire user-base, make sure you identify who they are so as to keep them along for the ride.
What's most interesting is that I think Iwata clearly recognizes this fault, since he has publicly addressed this in his investor meetings with the "Nintendo account system" (instead of device specific IDs) pitch. [insert arrowNNiDdevice.jpg] My contention is that he's too late, and should have envisioned this during his market-boom years while he had the ability to target million more families than he can today.
The most "I'm banging my head against the wall" view of this: is that Nintendo already has some pretty strong CRM . . . at the local level. Club Nintendo. It's the classic: you send them your info and your gaming habits and they reward you with free games/products. <-- Club Nintendo is an obvious missed opportunity in terms of CRM for Iwata's Wii/DS market. Should have expanded its capabilities and signed as many people up while they had the chance. I bet some managers at NoA are crying that they never got the budget to implement Club Nintendo in this way.
tl;dr: A global CRM system would allow Nintendo to better market to their DS/Wii market today; it would help answer the question: "who exactly is no longer a Nintendo gamer but once was?" May not answer all the problems (like "why aren't they playing anymore?") but would have definitely been a wise tool to ensure customer retention.
Anyone else feel this same way?
- Virtual console
- 3rd party relations
- Western-market orientation
- Online capabilities and services
- etc..
These are all strong, and there's plenty of evidence to link to these as main drivers of Nintendo's current fiscal position. What I think we're missing from the discussion, however, is the most glaring missed opportunity by Iwata as a CEO: lack of a global customer relationship management system (CRM.)
Let me posit the perspective this way: if I'm on Nintendo's marketing team today and I see our sales figures cross-generation I ask myself 2 immediate questions:
"Where did my market go?" --> "Who (as in name/address/etc. info) exactly left?"
If I can't answer the second question, then at best I can only perform blanket marketing tactics (aka promotions, sales, mall campaigns) at approximations of my customer base. In other words, my visibility into customer retention is poor, because I don't actually know who they are.
At Nintendo's peak market years: DS & Wii; Iwata should have instituted a global CRM system to track who exactly are his customers, their needs and ultimately what offers they can provide in order for them to continue becoming Nintendo customers. Had they done this well in 2009; by today they'd be able to actually go out to every ex-Wii and DS owner (that haven't jumped on the next-gen) and give them targeted offers to continue the ride.
I see this as a great misstep, because Nintendo's fundamental strategy: "increase the # of video game players" requires a need to retain those users into your ecosystem. Thus, if you want to increase the entire user-base, make sure you identify who they are so as to keep them along for the ride.
What's most interesting is that I think Iwata clearly recognizes this fault, since he has publicly addressed this in his investor meetings with the "Nintendo account system" (instead of device specific IDs) pitch. [insert arrowNNiDdevice.jpg] My contention is that he's too late, and should have envisioned this during his market-boom years while he had the ability to target million more families than he can today.
The most "I'm banging my head against the wall" view of this: is that Nintendo already has some pretty strong CRM . . . at the local level. Club Nintendo. It's the classic: you send them your info and your gaming habits and they reward you with free games/products. <-- Club Nintendo is an obvious missed opportunity in terms of CRM for Iwata's Wii/DS market. Should have expanded its capabilities and signed as many people up while they had the chance. I bet some managers at NoA are crying that they never got the budget to implement Club Nintendo in this way.
tl;dr: A global CRM system would allow Nintendo to better market to their DS/Wii market today; it would help answer the question: "who exactly is no longer a Nintendo gamer but once was?" May not answer all the problems (like "why aren't they playing anymore?") but would have definitely been a wise tool to ensure customer retention.
Anyone else feel this same way?
That's not really saying much given how well the DS did.
Omnistalgic
Member
I'd just like to see games become platform agnostic pretty much. Hopefully, with Sony's focus on network investment, Gaikai, they see the need for offering a service and not just having the best "box" around. Granted, even next-gen gen, there will still be a need for a box, as not all countries have strong internet, but I would still like to see a Tablet and PC running PS/Nintendo games soon. Not with touch controls or anything, just expanding the software to more people.
I think both Nintendo and Sony need to invest in getting there content to more people.
I think both Nintendo and Sony need to invest in getting there content to more people.
Wii U and 3DS are very far from their predecessors, but together they have over 50 million units sold right now, which is a respectable number, that's why I think they should go for one console with two form factors next gen, at least they could
provide much more support than now. If they want save money, they can keep the Wii U architecture, if a modder can cram a GC inside a Lynx they can put a slightly less powerful Wii U inside a 4DS and a make a upgrade in the current, so the next system would have an entire library ready. Shared games (MK, Smash, DKC, 2D/3D Mario) would run at 720p on the portable, 1080p on the console, cross-play/save between them, besides some exclusives for each one, They should also push more for digital games so they can get a bigger profit from the sales.
provide much more support than now. If they want save money, they can keep the Wii U architecture, if a modder can cram a GC inside a Lynx they can put a slightly less powerful Wii U inside a 4DS and a make a upgrade in the current, so the next system would have an entire library ready. Shared games (MK, Smash, DKC, 2D/3D Mario) would run at 720p on the portable, 1080p on the console, cross-play/save between them, besides some exclusives for each one, They should also push more for digital games so they can get a bigger profit from the sales.
Because a third party Nintendo is likely to change direction completely in how they develop and sell their games i.e. annual franchises, micro-transactions, platform exclusive content, etc If that were to happen, I would give up, as well.
Not all of that casual audience is gone, but they need a product from one of the big three gaming companies that can attract them again. None of the big three has attracted this group this gen that well or at all. The WiiU was technically aimed at a different audience then the Wii originally(They were also trying to attract the casuals to an extent at the same time), but they changed directions slightly after the console's launch.
Oh, in my previous big post I forgot to mention one thing Nintendo still needs to try to do: Find a way to grow the user base for traditional video games.
I think this is really the central problem behind everything for Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. The entire reason Nintendo went with the Wii idea is because they thought the audience for traditional console games was beginning to stagnate. Compared to the Wii, mobile, and social, it pretty much did during the PS3/360 years, especially in Japan. This is why publishers had try to wring more money out of customers of PS3 and 360 games -- because the audience of people buying them didn't grow fast enough to catch up with the games' ballooning development costs. Western developers have had to take more creative decisions they think will sell more copies. Japanese developers on the other hand just downsized and focused on an ultra-tight niche. At some point you have to ask if enough new people are entering the traditional console game market.
The biggest failure of the Wii and DS is probably that most of the people who bought those systems along with games like Wii Sports or Nintendogs didn't "graduate" to more complex games. Sony and Microsoft were even hopeful those people would graduate to playing PlayStation and Xbox games, but it just didn't happen.
I think this is really the central problem behind everything for Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. The entire reason Nintendo went with the Wii idea is because they thought the audience for traditional console games was beginning to stagnate. Compared to the Wii, mobile, and social, it pretty much did during the PS3/360 years, especially in Japan. This is why publishers had try to wring more money out of customers of PS3 and 360 games -- because the audience of people buying them didn't grow fast enough to catch up with the games' ballooning development costs. Western developers have had to take more creative decisions they think will sell more copies. Japanese developers on the other hand just downsized and focused on an ultra-tight niche. At some point you have to ask if enough new people are entering the traditional console game market.
The biggest failure of the Wii and DS is probably that most of the people who bought those systems along with games like Wii Sports or Nintendogs didn't "graduate" to more complex games. Sony and Microsoft were even hopeful those people would graduate to playing PlayStation and Xbox games, but it just didn't happen.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
JordanN
Banned
They already do some of this stuff now (Steel Diver has micro transactions, Smash bros for 3DS and Wii U are different, Mario Party might as well be considered annual).
MisterGrey3000
Member
This concept was flawed in the 7th gen and it's flawed now; everything doesn't revolve around what young men want in this industry.
Families and casual gamers never wanted to play the kinds of games that were found on the PS3/360 because they were never interested in them.
How in the world are you supposed to make those consumers "graduate" to experiences that they never found appealing in the first place?
Mario Party isn't anywhere close to being an annual franchise anymore lol.
Father_Brain
Banned
This. But even if it's somehow possible to expand the audience for "traditional" games, the answer most likely doesn't involve dedicated gaming platforms.
Nintentoast
Banned
I can draw one connection between Mario Party and every annualized franchise:
I want to buy each new iteration less and less.
shaowebb
Member
This whole rumor comes across to me like a highschool "friend of a friend" sort of tale to me...
His approval rating is up this year.
His approval rating is up this year.
Steel Diver does have micro transactions, but I don't want that to be in all of their games for the future.
By platform exclusive content, you do understand that i meant for example having some content of a Nintendo game exclusive only to the Playstation console, while the Xbox console has something different. Nintendo fans are more likely to own both N systems, so Smash Bros 4 isn't the same.
Mario Party is once every generation, so I don't know why you consider it to be annual.