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[Fancy Clown]

Not sure why you think it's funny lol. Name a single memorable characteristic or facet to any of the protagonists from the classic games. Like I guess Leon comes closest with his professed love of Ada, but even that's not really a personality. You could swap 99% of the dialogue between those characters and it would make sense for any of them to be saying it. Only until RE4 did they bother giving the characters unique character traits beyond "selfless-hero", and personalities to go with them. Leon becomes quipy and cocky, Chris self loathing and serious, etc.

I'm not saying Ethan's a particularly good character, but he at least has some lines that show a personality and aren't purely robotic exposition, and has the added benefit of far more natural dialogue and voice acting. Literally the only thing that separates them from him is that they have character designs that you can see.

I think he has more of a personality since he has more quips and the like. Definitely more than the cast in RE 1 & 2 had. But I think it's a case where not having a standout design hurts him. It's the case with both Mia and Ethan. They're so dull in that regard. You can place these two anywhere and not too many people would know where they're from instantly. Which in hindsight is odd when you see the bakers and the previous average joe designs from Outbreak.

they obviously want to give this guy some character. But why capcom is handling it the way they are is beyond me.

I don't think they wanted him and Mia to really stand out. Part of the small scale nature of the story and the first person camera was done to make it an every-man scenario that you insert yourself into for maximum fear, intentionally steering away from the superhero melodrama that RE turned into. Maybe they course corrected too much, but I think that was the intent and I don't think it really hurt the experience any more than the non-characters from the first couple games did.

 

[Neff]

1) He harps on the title for not being revolutionary. That's never been a hallmark of the series. Only RE1 and 4 really fit the bill (maybe RE5 to an extent because of co-op). And VR is arguably that new, revolutionary feature he was talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong but RE7 is the first major AAA release to be playable fully in VR start to finish. That's pretty huge.

Comparisons to 1 and 4 (and to a lesser extent REmake) are apt because those are the games which defined and redefined themselves respectively. RE7 attempts the same and almost gets there, but mechanically and conceptually it's just a very well-designed, very good-looking action/adventure/horror game.

Capcom have broken new ground with VR for sure, but personally I don't consider VR an element of RE7's design philosophy. It plays to the strengths of first person surprisingly well, better than most FPS games out there in fact, but VR is basically imo a luxury, exclusory additional layer of immersion for a lucky few, there is nothing from a gameplay perspective in RE7 which relies on it. It holds up extremely well (and in some cases better) without it. RE1 and RE4 were absolutely cutting-edge products when it came to redefining gameplay, and what was possible with the series. RE7 is a highly competent and assured mix of what has gone before, albeit in 3D should you care to spend the extra for the privilege.

 

[Neff]

Not sure why you think it's funny lol.

It is kind of a ridiculous statement. People have been in love with these characters from day one because they had, well, character.

sorry about the double post

 

[Fancy Clown]

It is kind of a ridiculous statement. People have been in love with these characters from day one because they had, well, character.

sorry about the double post

Give me some examples

 

[Neff]

Give me some examples

I'll try to state the obvious.

Chris, the shotgun-loving, cigarette smoking, super-wholesome all-American can-do action movie star only a non-American outsider looking in could create, and done so with as much affectionate sincerity as parody. Strikes up a rapport with Rebecca and encourages/relies on/becomes protective of her. Relationship with Wesker is a stark, mocking contrast to Jill's pity.

Jill, Raccoon City's finest lockpicker, expert at mixing chemicals, whizz on the piano, ever trusting of team mate Barry, who in turn is protective of her, literally translating into outcomes in the game itself.

Wesker, megalomaniac, wears sunglasses in doors like all true assholes, utterly lacking in empathy...

Barry, Magnum-toting, walking dad joke encyclopedia, defensive personality hiding turmoil over his betrayal...

Not a single character in RE1, even the ones with little screen time who die horribly (Richard is different from Forest, who is in turn different from Enrico) are remotely similar. Mikami's team actually put a lot of thought into their characteristics, and of course it paid off. Not to mention that RE1 has probably the most famous voice acting in gaming history, with endlessly quotable lines.

When people lament the absence of that kind of character diversity in RE7, it's probably because Ethan is a particularly poor example. Even after the game is over, we know nothing about him, his interactions with others are unsurprising and colourless. I'm sure I'm not the only one hoping that RE8 does better.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Only until RE4 did they bother giving the characters unique character traits beyond "selfless-hero", and personalities to go with them. Leon becomes quipy and cocky, Chris self loathing and serious, etc.

First of all, RE1 Chris was "quipy and cocky" before RE4 Leon ("Yeah, so much for him, we got to the ROOT of the problem.", *after laughing at Wesker* "Wesker, you're pitiful. This is your savior? You say this failure is your savior?", "He's sleeping with the ultimate failure."), and yet RE1 Chris' persona is completely different from RE4 Leon's. As Neff said, RE1 Chris is a stereotypical American action hero (who was later scaled-down to being a scout-boy soldier who cares for his teammates), while RE4 Leon is more of a Bond-type guy. Also, because Chris and Jill goes basically through the same events in RE1 you can clearly see that their reactions to events are completely different - because they got different personalities.

You also wouldn't be able replace Jill with Rebecca, because one is a skilled soldier (cop) who takes her job seriously, while the other is a teenage girl who wants to prove herself even though she's weak and scared (and that persona is also visible in RE0, where she's going all "I'm gonna do it myself" to prove Billy that she's not a little girl).

Later games only build on what earlier games already established, with just some minor tweaks here and there - mainly making Chris more serious in CV and on, and making Leon more cool in RE4 and on.

RE characters are simple, and you learn about them through their reactions to events and/or interactions with other people, but you can clearly see differences between various characters. Even in Outbreak cast of every-men you can clearly notice different personalities.

Literally the only thing that separates them from him is that they have character designs that you can see.

Character design (how he/she move, what he/she wear, hairstyle) helps to confirm character' personality so not having one (or having a bland, generic one) is still a major con.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I dunno man, I don't think a lot of that actually comes across in the game and cutscenes. Like that description of Chris is just pulled from his depiction in the live action intro, but isn't reflected in the game at all. And stuff like "forming relationship with Rebecca" isn't a character trait any more than Ethan forming a relationship with Zoe is (probably even less because Ethan says things like "this girl is crazy", which lets us know what he actually thinks, and his tone implies his feelings about her as well as builds on his sort of snarky incredulous personality).

I'll give you Barry and Wesker for sure though, they have defined personalities and lines that feel tailored to their personalities. But I think in most RE games the side characters and antagonists have more distinct traits and personalities than the protagonists (which is true of 7 as well).

I guess we know more facts about the hero's jobs and skills than Ethan, and while I agree those are useful character building tools, they aren't personalities . How they speak and act to other characters is, and I think Ethan was a tiny cut above the classics' protagonists in that respect. Again, I'm not saying Ethan was a good character, but outside of not having a unique visual identity he's par for the course with the classic RE games except a little lighter on exposition and a little more on having dialogue and tone that expresses the kind of person he is.

But maybe I'm underestimating how improtant the look and profession of the classic characters are for people. So many people love RE2 Leon becuase he's the inexperienced rookie cop (despite that never actually being a factor in the story or demonstrated part of his skill set, dialogue, or actions).

 

[Jawmuncher]

I stand that RE1 and RE2 didn't have much in their characters. But every game past that did to me. Chris got a bit more character in CVX, and solidified with RE5. Same with Wesker. Jill grew a lot in RE3. Claire and Leon grew a lot in their respective next games where they were leads.

So I get on Ethan since. At this point, a good main character has been pretty prominent in the series since 3 in my eyes. So to see out main character not able to stand with the rest even as an average joe is disappointing. Since I feel Jake was a good new addition to the cast in the game he was introduced in.

To me a lot hinges on RE8. If Ethan and Mia are characters that are meant to be not much besides names displayed in an article as the series go. Then I guess it makes some sense. But if they're going to be prominent characters, then they better grow in the upcoming games. I'll give them a chance since Jill, Chirs, Claire, and Leon needed the same.

Barry was always cool though. He was the one character in RE1/REmake that really stood out to me. Thanks to his family dynamic.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Not sure why you think it's funny lol. Name a single memorable characteristic or facet to any of the protagonists from the classic games. Like I guess Leon comes closest with his professed love of Ada, but even that's not really a personality. You could swap 99% of the dialogue between those characters and it would make sense for any of them to be saying it. Only until RE4 did they bother giving the characters unique character traits beyond "selfless-hero", and personalities to go with them. Leon becomes quipy and cocky, Chris self loathing and serious, etc.

I'm not saying Ethan's a particularly good character, but he at least has some lines that show a personality and aren't purely robotic exposition, and has the added benefit of far more natural dialogue and voice acting. Literally the only thing that separates them from him is that they have character designs that you can see.

You posted this argument before and had it blown apart.

The old games the characters were tropes, which each give them a type of personality, and they had 20 years to grow from there.

Meanwhile, 20 years later standards have grown incredibly so thae fact Ethan can even be compared to characters first appearances 20 years ago speaks volumes how little of a character he is.

 

[Fancy Clown]

You posted this argument before and had it blown apart.

The old games the characters were tropes, which each give them a type of personality, and they had 20 years to grow from there.

Meanwhile, 20 years later standards have grown incredibly so thae fact Ethan can even be compared to characters first appearances 20 years ago speaks volumes how little of a character he is.

Settle down, my dude. I was "blown apart"... and yet you agree they are nothing more than vague archetypes in the classics (when again I would argue they frequently don't even commit to that). And for 20 years of growth...now they are still archetypes, albeit with their personalities more consistantly and clearly expressed, and some have perhaps even one or two (okay not two) *gasp* flaws. Which is totally fine for the fun dumb melodrama RE has been going for, but 20 years of evolution for those results isn't exactly an impressive statistic.

And yeah I agree Ethan is not much of a character, my entire point was that he might not be much of one but he isncertainly not an outlier in the series in that regard. He falls squarely between 1-3 and 4-6 in terms of how much of an expressive, individual, character he feels like. I imagine they left most of the requisite "profession" information (which is what he's missing compared to most RE characters) to make him easier for the player to immerse themselves into because of the FPS view. They ended up with kind of a weird hybrid of "you are the character" and a clearly defined character, and that didn't work for most people, but I think as far as Resident Evil narratives go, Ethan and the the plot around him did just fine.

 

[Vibranium]

I mean, I was disappointed with Ethan not having much of a character too, but we'll see what Capcom has planned for RE8. I wonder if we'll see those two as NPCs next time or if they will be fleshed out more as playable characters. Or just disappear.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Is there a good Resident Evil Lore video? Friend wants a catch up

 

[Jawmuncher]

Playing the game again. The only time Ethan shows any real emotion is with the cop. It's also the only time where he feels like an average joe type character.

 

[RSB]

I just saw TheGamingBritShow's critique of RE7 and I have to say I pretty much totally agree with it, although I haven't quite yet gotten over the RE7 honeymoon period enabling me to get back to RE6 (or any of them for that matter) as my go-to game for wasting time in the RE universe.

Also holy shit watching RE7 gameplay with RE1 music kinda makes me wish there was more of it in the game.

Good video. He gives the game more praise than I would, but for the most part I agree with him.

And I love how the following video is titled "Why Resident Evil 6 is Awesome" He gets it.

 

[Neff]

and while I agree those are useful character building tools, they aren't personalities

Yes, they are.

A character is defined as much by their actions as their words. Thing is, Ethan never really does much that the player doesn't, and his words don't mean much, either. We don't step into his shoes, we are his shoes. That may have been intentional on Capcom's part as a means of inviting a certain kind of player, but if it's rubbing RE fans the wrong way (the kind of fan who does relish the series' trademark charismatic characters), then that's why.

And stuff like "forming relationship with Rebecca" isn't a character trait any more than Ethan forming a relationship with Zoe

That's pretty much my point. Ethan doesn't form a relationship with Zoe. She's just there. He remarks on her a couple of times to himself and that's about it. Even his interactions with his wife are bizarrely disconnected. I don't know if it's a by-product of the terrible script or Capcom's 'be the player' mandate, but it's poor.

So many people love RE2 Leon becuase he's the inexperienced rookie cop (despite that never actually being a factor in the story or demonstrated part of his skill set, dialogue, or actions).

RE2 portrays him naively and futilely single-handedly attempting to manage a catastrophic situation by the book, even though events have already clearly spiralled out of control, and this is reflected in his relationship with Ada, who is actually one step ahead of him in terms of knowing what's going on and her ability, even though she's willing to have him tag along because she digs him. He believes he's protective of her, but she's probably more protective of him. They nailed his character perfectly, initially and throughout.

Playing the game again. The only time Ethan shows any real emotion is with the cop. It's also the only time where he feels like an average joe type character.

That's his best moment for sure. He showed smarts and won the guy over with a great line, and didn't suffer from the Western game writing plague of having to swear for emphasis (although he does plenty of that a lot of the time) while he did it. The cop is great in that scene too. You can literally see him weighing the decision up in his eyes.

And I love how the following video is titled "Why Resident Evil 6 is Awesome" He gets it.

One hundred percent. That video is even better. I don't always agree with that guy regarding other games, but his views on RE are spot-on.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Settle down, my dude. I was "blown apart"... and yet you agree they are nothing more than vague archetypes in the classics.

No I don't agree, just because they were assorted trope character types doesn't mean they weren't well defined. They weren't vague at all.

Ethan meanwhile is a blank slate, he barely interacts with anyone, does so barely when he does, all actions the player does for him, he does none himself, I'm not sure we even see him fully.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Yes, they are.

A character is defined as much by their actions as their words. Thing is, Ethan never really does much that the player doesn't, and his words don't mean much, either. We don't step into his shoes, we are his shoes. That may have been intentional on Capcom's part as a means of inviting a certain kind of player, but if it's rubbing RE fans the wrong way (the kind of fan who does relish the series' trademark charismatic characters), then that's why.

I mean, in the classic games the characters didn't do a whole lot that we didn't do. Most of their actions are directly controlled by us since outside of the intro cutscene most of the cutscenes are dialogue driven. You can glean as much of a personality from Ethan's dialogue, line readings, and what he's wearing as you can from the classic characters. Like I get that the classic games are stilted and charming, but for 95% of the game the protagonists are essentially expository ciphers, and the poor dialogue and voice acting doesn't lend itself to pulling out details of their personality since it's so broad and robotic. The advancements in voice acting and animation let you tease out more subtlties in Ethan's limited dialogues and reactions that give him a more consistant sense of character.

That's pretty much my point. Ethan doesn't form a relationship with Zoe. She's just there. He remarks on her a couple of times to himself and that's about it. Even his interactions with his wife are bizarrely disconnected. I don't know if it's a by-product of the terrible script or Capcom's 'be the player' mandate, but it's poor.

I mean Chris's relationship with Rebecca is hardly more than remarks as well. It basically consists of saying stuff like "wait here!" And "are you ok?" in a wooden voice. At least Ethan gets some flavor to a few of his lines with Zoe to let us know what he's thinking.

RE2 portrays him naively and futilely single-handedly attempting to manage a catastrophic situation by the book, even though events have already clearly spiralled out of control, and this is reflected in his relationship with Ada, who is actually one step ahead of him in terms of knowing what's going on and her ability, even though she's willing to have him tag along because she digs him. He believes he's protective of her, but she's probably more protective of him. They nailed his character perfectly, initially and throughout.

What in his dialogue or actions shows his dedication to doing things by the book? Him giving orders and trying to survive and save people in a situation where events have spiraled beyond their control while another character knows more about the situation than they do is stock RE. What unique examples about how Leon specifically handles situations and lines of dialogue express his unique handling of this that is true to his character? Because you could write that same exact summary for Chris or Jill in RE1, and more or less replace Ada with Wesker. The biggest difference between them are there foils. Instead of the "one who knows what's actually going on" being a villain like Wesker, Ada is a love interest. Ethan has two of these characters to choose between: Mia, the love interest, and Zoe the victim.

So again, you could write the same summary about Ethan except for the "by the book" part since he's not a cop (but again I don't remember Leon doggedly trying to do things by the book in RE2. He tries to save people and survive and just happens to be a cop, but is that, by the book?) Ethan tries to save people, survive, is trapped in events beyond his control, and follows characters that know what's really going on.

No I don't agree, just because they were assorted trope character types doesn't mean they weren't well defined. They weren't vague at all.

Ethan meanwhile is a blank slate, he barely interacts with anyone, does so barely when he does, all actions the player does for him, he does none himself, I'm not sure we even see him fully.

The protagonists aren't assorted charcter types though, they're all the same type: the self-less heroes, dedicated only to saving people and beating the bad guy. RE0 is really the only classic game to change this up, with Billy being the snarky "is he good or bad?" type, but even then through most of the game you could swap him for Chris or Leon and most of what he does and says would still make perfect sense. And notice too how upon becoming the protagonist of an RE game, even though it's a prequel, she loses all her distinct personality attributes she had in 1. No longer the passive, fearful character, she ins instead the stock selfless, brave, dedicated and bland hero that was RE's standard protagonist archetype at that point.

They were vague because they only commit to a particular voice for these characters in rare occasions. Listen to the dialogue and look at the actions of the characters, most of them could be said and done by any of them, since most of what they say is purely expository, or emphasizing their selfless heroics. They are all stock hero characters with a little flavor given in by sparse interactions with other characters. They would all do the same thing in the same situations, since what they do amounts to saving people and fighting bad guys. They don't have flaws, they don't have aspirations, they don't have quirks and idiosyncracies (unless you count Barry telling Jill that she's a master of unlocking as an idiosyncrasy). Their differences are pretty much all things you would see in a game manual: what they look like, and what their job is. Maybe a skill too. Outside of I guess non-remake Chris making quips to Wesker late in the game, they really don't express much individual personality.

 

[Neff]

Ethan fan site webring when

 

[TRUE ORDER]

So, RE7 tops 3 million shipments. I think Capcom's goal is possible given the critics and word of mouth.

 

[Stallion Dan]

The protagonists aren't assorted charcter types though, they're all the same type: the self-less heroes, dedicated only to saving people and beating the bad guy.

This really is a disservice to the characters. They all started with backstories, then have their tropes, then differences to other characters making them more unique. Their own looks and styles.

How can you call Leon the same as Claire who is protective mother/big sis character? Leon is a gullible rookie who falls for a femme fatale.

Ethan is most certainly an outlier at this point, the original characters have spent 20 years growing, new characters like Sheva, Jake, Helena, Piers all have big backstories and loads of personality.

Brad Vickers is a better character than Ethan, and his only traits is he is a chicken shit so afraid he left his team to die, but can muster enough courage to comeback. What can you point to Ethan and say is a defining part of his character. He has nothing.

 

[J_Macgrady]

This really is a disservice to the characters. They all started with backstories, then have their tropes, then differences to other characters making them more unique. Their own looks and styles.

How can you call Leon the same as Claire who is protective mother/big sis character? Leon is a gullible rookie who falls for a femme fatale.

Ethan is most certainly an outlier at this point, the original characters have spent 20 years growing, new characters like Sheva, Jake, Helena, Piers all have big backstories and loads of personality.

Brad Vickers is a better character than Ethan, and his only traits is he is a chicken shit so afraid he left his team to die, but can muster enough courage to comeback. What can you point to Ethan and say is a defining part of his character. He has nothing.

He is a very chill person considering you can chop his hand off and he won't scream lol. He definitely stands out from the other characters in the series though it may not be in a way most people want it or in a way that makes him iconic. The fact that you guys are even having this conversation proves he stands out lol.

 

[Neff]

The fact that you guys are even having this conversation proves he stands out lol.

Not really, there's plenty of RE characters who suck.

 

[Stallion Dan]

He is a very chill person considering you can chop his hand off and he won't scream lol. He definitely stands out from the other characters in the series though it may not be in a way most people want it or in a way that makes him iconic. The fact that you guys are even having this conversation proves he stands out lol.

He stands out as being a blank slate.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I hope the Not A Hero DLC makes sense.

Spoiler

Chris shouldn't be weaker than he was in RE6. He better be able to punch molded and do at least some sort of contextual melee to them.

 

[StrongBelwas]

So I recently bought RE4, 5 and 6 on PSN with the plan to play them before RE7 and catch up on RE as I had never played 5 and 6 and hadn't played 4 since its release on gamecube. I beat 4 but then 7 came out, played and beat that, now I'm thinking of finally diving in to RE5 but I've not got anyone to play it with, and don't really want to play with randoms, and that is holding me back since from what I've read people say its a great co op game, and thats how it should be played.

Can RE5 be enjoyed single player or will it be a chore?

 

[Jawmuncher]

So I recently bought RE4, 5 and 6 on PSN with the plan to play them before RE7 and catch up on RE as I had never played 5 and 6 and hadn't played 4 since its release on gamecube. I beat 4 but then 7 came out, played and beat that, now I'm thinking of finally diving in to RE5 but I've not got anyone to play it with, and don't really want to play with randoms, and that is holding me back since from what I've read people say its a great co op game, and thats how it should be played.

Can RE5 be enjoyed single player or will it be a chore?

It can definitely be enjoyed as a solo game. That's the majority of how I have played it.
You only need to keep in mind that Sheva needs to be treated like a player. So give her decent pistol, and ammo. Also make sure to upgrade her gear as well and such, and you shouldn't have much issue.

 

[SolidChamp]

Having played REmake for the first time recently, going with Jill, I can attest that I found almost nothing in the way of true characterization via the dialogue or emotional responses to her given situations. So anyone trying to say that there's a really well-defined character there is seriously looking at it with rose-colored, RE fan lenses.

Sorry, that's just my two cents.

 

[RSB]

This really is a disservice to the characters. They all started with backstories, then have their tropes, then differences to other characters making them more unique. Their own looks and styles.

How can you call Leon the same as Claire who is protective mother/big sis character? Leon is a gullible rookie who falls for a femme fatale.

Ethan is most certainly an outlier at this point, the original characters have spent 20 years growing, new characters like Sheva, Jake, Helena, Piers all have big backstories and loads of personality.

Brad Vickers is a better character than Ethan, and his only traits is he is a chicken shit so afraid he left his team to die, but can muster enough courage to comeback. What can you point to Ethan and say is a defining part of his character. He has nothing.

Yeah, that's something I've always loved about RE (well, until RE7 at least) The new characters introduced in each game are always pretty memorable (be it for their appearance, their personality, or both) and most importantly, they always feel like RE characters.

Jake, Moira, Josh, Sheva, Piers... so many cool new characters introduced in the last few games. A real shame Capcom felt the need to chase this new, dull, westernized version of RE.

 

[Via Purifico]

I enjoyed the hell out of RE7 but Ethan is quite bland. The bakers stood out more to me and especially Jack.

 

[Neff]

Having played REmake for the first time recently, going with Jill, I can attest that I found almost nothing in the way of true characterization via the dialogue or emotional responses to her given situations.

REmake's characters are mostly dull as shit honestly but I still love them.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Claire who is protective mother/big sis character?

Bro I would never say that. People only say that because she escorted a young girl in RE2, and she's a woman lol. This is what I'm talking about. There's nothing in the way she's written to suggest a motherly character. And then in Rev 2 she doesn't even know how to talk to Natalia. And that's another "issue" with the characters is that a lot of them change how they speak and act in between games. Rebecca, Claire, Leon (who changed wildly between 2,4, and 6.)

But LOL clearly you guys don't agree with so I'll stop poking this particular undead bear.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Bro I would never say that. People only say that because she escorted a young girl in RE2, and she's a woman lol. This is what I'm talking about. There's nothing in the way she's written to suggest a motherly character.

Well, duh - it would be hard to show someone's motherly character without a person she could be protective about. That's what we meant by personalisation via characters' relationships. Both Leon and Claire meet Sherry on their way in RPD and yet it's Claire who is following Sherry and feels the need to find her. She also can calms Sherry down, care about her when she runs off or disappears in the sewers, she gives her her jacket so that the angel can "protect her" etc. What do you want more?

Also, it's obvious that this was Capcom's intention because in CV she is paired with Steve who she treats more like a little brother (even though he's obviously in love with her) and the whats-her-face girl in Degeneration, where again she plays the guardian role.

The scene with Natalia you're talking about, according to News Bot, is the fault of translators. In the Japanese version Claire is once again a "mother", but what Natalia needs at the moment is more of a "big sister", and that's when Moira steps in.

 

[Golnei]

This isn't related to anything, but I didn't realise they were directly using Ada's RE4 face in later stages of RE6's concept art.

Carla's costume looks much better with the RE6 face (though it could just be badly lit in that draft), but I still prefer the previous one for Ada herself.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Well, duh - it would be hard to show someone's motherly character without a person she could be protective about. That's what we meant by personalisation via characters' relationships. Both Leon and Claire meet Sherry on their way in RPD and yet it's Claire who is following Sherry and feels the need to find her. She also can calms Sherry down, care about her when she runs off or disappears in the sewers, she gives her her jacket so that the angel can "protect her" etc. What do you want more?

Also, it's obvious that this was Capcom's intention because in CV she is paired with Steve who she treats more like a little brother (even though he's obviously in love with her) and the whats-her-face girl in Degeneration, where again she plays the guardian role.

The scene with Natalia you're talking about, according to News Bot, is the fault of translators. In the Japanese version Claire is once again a "mother", but what Natalia needs at the moment is more of a "big sister", and that's when Moira steps in.

I can't speak to code Veronica or degeneration, but in RE2 her "motherliness" is basically in one cutscene where she says "don't worry, I'll save you" and then pats her head. The rest of the scene is exposition. She tries to save Sherry just like all the RE heroes try to save innocent people. You could swap Leon's character model and voice actor in and it would make the exact same amount of sense.

Compare this with Aliens and the narrative as a whole clearly develops Ripley's character as one representing motherhood. Back in RE2 land if you look at Leon's brief interactions with Sherry they feel no different from Claire's. RE heros are guileless self sacrificing heros who live to vanquish evil and save innocents. Any innocents they run into are met with some brief reassurances, and then a bunch of exposition. I won't discount that Sherry's prominence in Claire's RE2 campaign and her reassurances may have been an effort to characterize Claire as being a motherly and protective, but my whole argument has been that these elements of characterization are so sparse and not particularly effective, and Ethan isn't much different.

Like, all you have to do is look at the same characters in the later games. While they are still one-dimensional archetypes, they commit to their personality types throughout the whole story so that even expository scenes are clearly written in with their unique voices. Capcom simply started devoting more effort into character based melodrama side of the narrative, where before the characters where really just vague sketches to get you to go places and the real story is largely told through the documents. And so it makes sense that Ethan is dialed back in his characterization, because Capcom brought RE7 down to the smaller scale, mystery driven story where the narrative is driven by you piecing together what's going on and trying to survive a spoopy location, stripping away most of the melodrama because they felt it wasn't right for the game.

You guys think Ethan is by far the worst character in the series, and that's fine. I just think he's squarly in the ballpark for what the series initially was, only not written and voice acted as robotically.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

I can't speak to code Veronica or degeneration, but in RE2 her "motherliness" is basically in one cutscene where she says "don't worry, I'll save you" and then pats her head. The rest of the scene is exposition. She tries to save Sherry just like all the RE heroes try to save innocent people. You could swap Leon's character model and voice actor in and it would make the exact same amount of sense. (...)

Back in RE2 land if you look at Leon's brief interactions with Sherry they feel no different from Claire's.

Bullshit. There are many instances in the game where Claire hugs Sherry or kneels when she talks to her in order to be on the same eye level (something many people in real live doesn't even care to do). There's also the scene with Claire's "Made in heaven" jacket which isn't an exposition or anything - if Capcom didn't want to use it to characterize Claire, they could skip it.

Also, the point is Leon does meet Sherry, but when she runs off, he just shrugs it off. It's Claire who rushes in and is all "did you saw a little girl? we have to find her!" and the spends the whole campaign taking care of her.

You are comparing a full movie to an action video game from late 90s that has maybe an hour or so cut-scenes between two campaigns. Of course video games characters won't be as deep as the movies ones, but the whole discussion started with you saying that those characters had no characterization at all.

Also, comparing Ethan (a character from a 2017 game) to characters from games from late 90s doesn't really help Ethan's case. There's such a thing as context - people didn't expect fully developed characters back then (in action games), so tropey characters with few distinct traits were sufficient. People expect more from a character from a modern story-driven game.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Bullshit. There are many instances in the game where Claire hugs Sherry or kneels when she talks to her in order to be on the same eye level (something many people in real live doesn't even care to do). There's also the scene with Claire's "Made in heaven" jacket which isn't an exposition or anything - if Capcom didn't want to use it to characterize Claire, they could skip it.

Also, the point is Leon does meet Sherry, but when she runs off, he just shrugs it off. It's Claire who rushes in and is all "did you saw a little girl? we have to find her!" and the spends the whole campaign taking care of her.

You are comparing a full movie to an action video game from late 90s that has maybe an hour or so cut-scenes between two campaigns. Of course video games characters won't be as deep as the movies ones, but the whole discussion started with you saying that those characters had no characterization at all.

Also, comparing Ethan (a character from a 2017 game) to characters from games from late 90s doesn't really help Ethan's case. There's such a thing as context - people didn't expect fully developed characters back then (in action games), so tropey characters with few distinct traits were sufficient. People expect more from a character from a modern story-driven game.

I can absolutely compare a movie to a video game in terms of story and characterization. I'm not gonna say that it's suddenly better than it is just because it had more limitations. They're both finalized pieces of storytelling. And I'm not trying to help Ethan's case, I don't think he's a good character (or even much of one), I just think he certainly comparable to the classic characters. What he lacks in design and backstory he makes up for in sounding not like a robot.

And the discussion started when I said as much, and said that the RE characters from the OG games have vague and inconsistant characterization and are mostly expository vehicles with some backstory and I stand by that. 95% of their lines could be swapped around and it wouldn't make a difference who was saying what because the writers, (or translators?) rarely wrote the characters dialogue with a specific voice that's imbued with that characters personality and characterization, and were obviously limited with scripting, voice actors and animations so everyone moves and talks like an emotionless robot. I never said they were entirely devoid of any attempt on Capcom's part to characterize them, but I think those moments are very sparse, inconsistant, or not very effective.

And I'm 100% aware of the context dude, no need to patronize. People not expecting fully developed characters in 90s action games and RE characters not being fully developed characters is literally my entire point. They are not developed characters, and the limitations of the time were certainly part of that. And that's totally ok, but I can't read more into the characters of the OG games than what's in them, and I'm not gonna give bonus points based around the limitations in animation and voice acting. I'm not shit talking Capcom, or these games, or your very apparent appreciation of the characters.

I'm kinda surprised that people would try to argue against all that (jk not at all surprised), but y'all are getting heated about it so I'm gonna leave it be and get back to my RE1 run.

 

[AdaWong]

As I am finishing up Ada Wong's campaign in RE 6 I'm realizing the biggest issue issue with it is the designers ideas about adding variation to the game.

RE 6 bases it's variation on things outside of it's core mechanics (QTEs, vehicles, stealth, swimming, forced running, and really bad puzzles). Except none of that variation is fun because none of it is flesh out. The core mechanics don't support stealth. They either have a direct line of site on you or not and that's all that matters. Camera doesn't support looking around angles well? Too bad. Extravagant kill animations make the stealth make no damn sense? Too bad. Caught by the enemy? Sucks for you, you only got that one chance and you will now be swarmed by every enemy in the level and there are no mechanics which allow you to hide again. And it's not like it's a one off thing! Sherry chapter 2 and 3 and Ada chapter 1 (and apparently chapter 4 from what I've heard) all have stealth sections in them. Same with the vehicles. Why are there random Snowmobiles in Sherry chapter 2? The level isn't big enough for them and you can only drive them in that small section and they control like shit on top of that. Sherry/Jake chapter 1, 2, and 4 have vehicles as does Chris/Piers chapter 3 and 4 do as well and I know Ada will have have one based off of the Leon/Helena campaign. The swimming section in Leon/Helena chapter 3 and Ada chapter 1 wouldn't be so bad if the controls were worth a damn, but they aren't. And then there are just little things like edge slipping in Sherry/Jake chapter 1. Why is that even a thing? Why is grave slipping in Leon/Helena chapter 2 a thing when it then gives you a fixed camera angle that makes it impossible to fucking shoot at anything (it might have been clever if not for the fixed angle shit)? And can I just say: The "Press A to make Ada shoot the rappel gun and watch her do a cool flip" could have lead to a cool gameplay mechanic but nope, just "press A".

And then there is shit that I just can't believe passed the design phase:

Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to make it so that you can barely see (there are points in the level where visibility is even worse) as you have long distance enemies and enemies that fly around!? Or to make it so that if you are knocked down at the top of the hill, the ice in the level will force you to slide all the way back down to the bottom with no way to stop yourself? Or the previously mentioned issue with the snowmobile? And then adding in a mandatory stealth section after a mandatory vehicle section? And then top that all off with a QTE section?


This is the most fun you can have in RE 6:

The added variation should have exploited those mechanics to their fullest, because as Mercenaries showed, RE 6's combat system is a damn fun time.

And that's why I like Leon/Helena the best: It's lacks the most amount of bullshit.

I like the game a lot, but I actually really enjoyed reading your criticism, and agree with almost all of it.

 

[AdaWong]

This isn't related to anything, but I didn't realise they were directly using Ada's RE4 face in later stages of RE6's concept art.

Carla's costume looks much better with the RE6 face (though it could just be badly lit in that draft), but I still prefer the previous one for Ada herself.

Yep, even in the character page for Ada, you can see RE4 Ada in RE6 Ada's outfit.

There are a lot of talented people that created good-looking renders with RE4 Ada in RE6 outfit (and vice-versa) and it gives you quite an idea. RE6 Ada in RE4 Ada costume looks really good, actually.

RE6 Ada in RE4 outfit:
http://i57.************/21n019l.jpg
http://i62.************/nlc2lj.jpg

RE6 Ada in REamnation outfit
http://i62.************/sc3r83.jpg

Spoiler

replace the S.T.A.R.S with tiny pic

And my favorite... RE6 Ada in RE2 outfit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu9BGu79UhU

 

[Common Knowledge]

So I've been playing Revelation 2 for the first time since I've had it sitting in my backlog for quite a while now and I want to play it before Res 7. I got to say, I'm enjoying it quite a bit. It's a lot better than Rev 1. The atmosphere is probably the creepiest the series has been since the scariest parts of Res 4 (again, I haven't played 7 yet so can't compare it to that). Doesn't do anything mindblowing or inventive with the gameplay but it's a solid entry of the standard TPS-style of Res games. I've also noticed what may be some very slight The Last of Us inspiration in some of the mechanics, such as the crafting from resources and ability to do stealth in some encounters.

The premise of the game is kind of interesting too. I like the the mystery behind the island and the "experiment" the characters are being forced to take part in. The switch in perspectives between Claire and Barry helps keep the pacing going.

Spoiler

Alex Wesker

is kind of a big WTF from a lore perspective but she makes for a really creepy villain in this game.

I wasn't really paying attention to this game back when it was coming out so I don't know what the general reception to it was among the fanbase, but I think it's a worthy addition and I definitely wouldn't mind a Rev 3 at somepoint.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

So I've been playing Revelation 2 for the first time since I've had it sitting in my backlog for quite a while now and I want to play it before Res 7. I got to say, I'm enjoying it quite a bit. It's a lot better than Rev 1. The atmosphere is probably the creepiest the series has been since the scariest parts of Res 4 (again, I haven't played 7 yet so can't compare it to that). Doesn't do anything mindblowing or inventive with the gameplay but it's a solid entry of the standard TPS-style of Res games. I've also noticed what may be some very slight The Last of Us inspiration in some of the mechanics, such as the crafting from resources and ability to do stealth in some encounters.

The premise of the game is kind of interesting too. I like the the mystery behind the island and the "experiment" the characters are being forced to take part in. The switch in perspectives between Claire and Barry helps keep the pacing going.

Spoiler

Alex Wesker

is kind of a big WTF from a lore perspective but she makes for a really creepy villain in this game.

I wasn't really paying attention to this game back when it was coming out so I don't know what the general reception to it was among the fanbase, but I think it's a worthy addition and I definitely wouldn't mind a Rev 3 at somepoint.

That WTF subject was featured a few times in RE5 files, so it wasn't as left field as it seems.

I greatly enjoyed REv2 as well, which is unfortunately not the case so far in Revelations 1. Hopefully REv3 keeps the action aspect alive in full swing instead of being a half way job.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Playing RE 0. The game is absolutely gorgeous, probably one of the best if not the best looking Gamecube era games out there. But the backtracking is absolute shit. If I never have to go back and forth through an abandoned train again it'll be too soon. It's still fun, the atmosphere is amazing, and it's gorgeous so I'll stick with it, but man I get the feeling this is going to become a slog if this keeps up.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Playing RE 0. The game is absolutely gorgeous, probably one of the best if not the best looking Gamecube era games out there. But the backtracking is absolute shit. If I never have to go back and forth through an abandoned train again it'll be too soon. It's still fun, the atmosphere is amazing, and it's gorgeous so I'll stick with it, but man I get the feeling this is going to become a slog if this keeps up.

The train is the weakest area imo. Apart from some shit bosses and a few annoying moments, the game is quite a bit better when it opens up. Of course the item management becomes that much more annoying when you have to deal with lugging all your stuff to and fro between major locations.

 

[Jawmuncher]

This came up in the RE7 spoiler thread, but i'm curious what people here think.

Is Resident Evil 4 a Survival Horror game?

I personally don't think so. Since if it is, then RE5 would be a Survival Horror game too.
I also wouldn't consider The Evil Within a survival horror game either. I definitely would say RE7 is a survival horror game though.

My personal view is due to how the games are structured. RE4 and EW are structured pretty heavily on encounters and fighting enemies more than anything else. While I wouldn't say the same for RE7 or other older RE games. There's combat in those games sure, but even in the more action packed ones like RE2, I wouldn't say it's the main course though.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Yeah I think if the game is totally structured around gated enemy encounters, it's probably not survival horror.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

RE 4 is definitely what I would call "Action Horror", so by extension 5/6/Revelations 1/Revelations 2/Evil Within are as well. The gameplay loop depends far too heavily on the action side of things and you are too able to defend yourself to be considered straight "Survival Horror". A single zombie in REmake scares me more than a whole area of enemies in RE 4 because I am so limited in how I can handle the situation. By RE 5 I'm fully confident taking on large swaths of enemies and by RE 6 you can make 150 to 300 combo runs with ease if you know how.

I like the game a lot, but I actually really enjoyed reading your criticism, and agree with almost all of it.

Thanks!

RE 6 is one of those games where the core mechanics have so much potential and on their own they feel amazing but the game built around it doesn't support it. It's not a bad game, and when everything clicks like in Mercenaries it can be an absolute ball. It's just the lows are so low that it makes the overall experience really suffer.

 

[gelf]

RE4 is not survival horror but it has more survival elements then 5. Early on at least there are times it's better to run then fight as ammo is low.

Evil Within is even more along those lines as for most of the game you can run out of ammo fast and have to rely instead on the environment to get through. Not survival horror but it's less of a pure shooter. And that a major reason I prefer it to action Resi.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

RE 4 is difficult to place.

Pro Survival Horror:

1. Inventory management
2. Puzzles
3. Horror themes

Con Survival Horror

1. Inventory management comes down to tossing the loads of superfluous shit given to the player, rather than choices between key items, health, and weaponry
2. Gated encounters rather than fight or flight the focus
3. Even on professional, there's little empowerment gained, as in front the beginning players are well equipped enough to handily deal with anything thrown at them.

I'd lean towards it being an action horror title, much like 5 and 6 after it.

 

[Stallion Dan]

This came up in the RE7 spoiler thread, but i'm curious what people here think.

Is Resident Evil 4 a Survival Horror game?

Survival Action. Forget survival horror. (The GC release had the forget survival horror part but not survival Action).

 

[Jawmuncher]

Survival Action. Forget survival horror. (The GC release had the forget survival horror part but not survival Action).

Well that answers that lol

 

[Stallion Dan]

RE4 is not survival horror but it has more survival elements then 5. Early on at least there are times it's better to run then fight as ammo is low.

Bad memory, after the very first enemy in RE5 you jump out a window and face a horde you're forced to run from. In RE4 it takes longer for the first horde and you get a shotgun to deal with it, RE5 you only had starting pistol.