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[Graphics Horse]

Is it even possible to get low enough ping times for 60fps to be relevant in multiplayer?

 

[kaching]

Hello, at some point I'm going to buy a PS3 and Resistance will be a game I consider to buy. If it 'layers' the flaws on top of each other, maybe I'd then consider NOT to buy it. The weight my criticism bears is precisely the same either way (which is to say, even if I buy Resistance 1 at 30 bucks, if I like the original maybe I'd get Resistance 2, or any number of scenarios). That's a hypothetical, of course - I like more things about Resistance than I don't like - but this 30fps trend is terrible. And it's just a small factor of things that pisses me off about next-gen. So my complaints about it are not something that needs to be approached in such a way. I'm not saying this to troll, I legitimately feel these problems are getting larger as gaming progresses.

Too many "ifs" in the first part there - each one undermines the argument that Insomniac should build the game the way you want them to NOW.

Ted Price: "Gang, Let's build a very costly next-gen game based on the requests from people who maybe might buy it 4 years from now when it's in the bargain bin"

Maybe you think I'm completely unsympathetic, Ami, but what I'm saying here is that, whether you have a legitimate grievance or not, you have a rather ineffective way of airing it. Insomniac is a dev that has previously put a premium on stable 60fps performance and had every intention of remaining committed to that with Resistance apparently. But something happened that was strong enough to shake their resolve. The stakes just get higher with next-gen game projects and they can't just ignore a largely indifferent response to their game.

All well and good to call 30fps a "flaw" but other people have other ideas about what the flaws are and they just seem to have a more convincing voice than the "Everything below 60fps is a flaw" crew.

 

[Reilly]

He mentions that there are weapons dependable on a heat bar so obviously that is something we haven't seen yet.

It's probably types of plasma-like weapons where you have infinite ammo, but if you shoot too long it overheats. Or a large gun has to cool down before you can fire it again.

 

[Amir0x]

Too many "ifs" in the first part there - each one undermines the argument that Insomniac should build the game the way you want them to NOW.

Ted Price: "Gang, Let's build a very costly next-gen game based on the requests from people who maybe might buy it 4 years from now when it's in the bargain bin"

Maybe you think I'm completely unsympathetic, Ami, but what I'm saying here is that, whether you have a legitimate grievance or not, you have a rather ineffective way of airing it. Insomniac is a dev that has previously put a premium on stable 60fps performance and had every intention of remaining committed to that with Resistance apparently. But something happened that was strong enough to shake their resolve. The stakes just get higher with next-gen game projects and they can't just ignore a largely indifferent response to their game.

All well and good to call 30fps a "flaw" but other people have other ideas about what the flaws are and they just seem to have a more convincing voice than the "Everything below 60fps is a flaw" crew.

I didn't say they should design a game around me, or that they should somehow miss launch to meet these things. They had a goal, said it was 60fps. They failed to meet this in both singleplayer and multiplayer now. I am rightfully disappointed due to that, it's a complaint I have with many next-gen titles these days.

That's all. The sidetracks of constantly bringing up when I am buying a PS3 and 360 is tiresome because it doesn't change that all these things will be impacting me down the line. So, anyway, this was a pretty silly thing to derail a thread over on why to complain.

I just don't like the way things are going at the moment.

 

[JB1981]

IGN: The game's tech specs have been a frequent topic of discussion. So that said, what level of HD will it run in (720p, 1080i, 1080p), what's the final framerate, and what sort of audio codec have you decided to support?

Al Hastings, Chief Technology Officer: Our intention is to support all HD modes including 1080p. The framerate will be locked at 30 frames per second in both single-player and multiplayer.


Bu-bu-bu-but I thought 1080p was meaningless this generation?!!

A major PS3 launch title locked at 30fps in 1080p res. Sony FTW, Microsoft PR FTL.

 

[Kleegamefan]

UNCOMPRESSED 7.1ch LPCM AUDIO FOR THE WIN!

 

[JB1981]

UNCOMPRESSED 7.1ch LPCM AUDIO FOR THE WIN!

What reciever you getting to take advantage of that, Klee? Got any suggestions/links?

 

[Kleegamefan]

Wait till CEIDA (September 14th)

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

This bit sounds good.

IGN: You've previously mentioned that bodies will be persistent, so if you come back to an area later they'll still be there. Does this imply that the game is somewhat "open" in a way, where you can choose to wander back to previous areas at any time to find new secrets, or will areas be revisited throughout the game's storyline?

Drew Murray, Designer: Each level will be a totally unique environment and experience. While some of the levels in Resistance: Fall of Man, such as the battlefields and vehicle levels, will be more open and less linear, we have to have a certain amount of control over where the player is at certain times in order to build the horror and suspense that's part of our core experience.

The player will have opportunities to choose multiple tactics and paths in order to overcome certain challenges, such as our massive battlefields, and there will also be more restricted environments. These allow us to control timing and suspense, and offer some fantastic one-off events, such as the Burrower that crashes through the walls at the end of our E3 trailer.

I was wondering if it was going to be just a straight HL2/CoD rail fest or if they'd try and open things up a bit. Hopefully they can get a good balance between less-linear environs and scripted sequences.

About the 1080p thing, something about the way he worded it (support) makes me think it'll still be internally rendered at 720p (upscaled IOW), but we'll see.

 

[Rice-Eater]

Anybody notice this quote

We have several more tricks up our sleeve where we intend on using the tilt-sensor to increase immersion and improve control (nothing we want to give away just yet, though!)

It looks like they might allow you to move the player with the tilt? I've had this idea in my head for a while. What if you could control the characters movement with the tilt and aim with the right analog stick. This frees up the left thumb to use the D-pad for quick weapon switching or whatever. I can see this happening.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Anybody notice this quote



It looks like they might allow you to move the player with the tilt? I've had this idea in my head for a while. What if you could control the characters movement with the tilt and aim with the right analog stick. This frees up the left thumb to use the D-pad for quick weapon switching or whatever. I can see this happening.

Instead of outright control I think I'd rather see a more "aid" like approach in an FPS. Something along the lines of using the tilt to peak around corners or raise your head up over cover when crouched, simple but intuitive stuff like that.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Instead of outright control I think I'd rather see a more "aid" like approach in an FPS. Something along the lines of using the tilt to peak around corners or raise your head up over cover when crouched, simple but intuitive stuff like that.

My same exact thoughts.

Things like peak/tilt your character left or right while retaining the analogs for aiming control to shoot.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

My same exact thoughts.

Things like peak/tilt your character left or right while retaining the analogs for aiming control to shoot.

Yep. Plus having little movements like this controlled with an analog input would be a pretty nice bonus I think. Stuff like leaning in FPS' have mostly been restricted to on/off commands where you have to position yourself, "press key to trigger lean animation" etc... With the tilt you'd be able to lean a little or a lot and adjust your angle accordingly.

 

[Speevy]

Bu-bu-bu-but I thought 1080p was meaningless this generation?!!

A major PS3 launch title locked at 30fps in 1080p res. Sony FTW, Microsoft PR FTL.

If you just had to take a stab at why MS said that (other than the obvious: Our console doesn't support it.), what would it be? I mean, what percentage of PS3 owners would have such a TV? (end of generation). And how about at launch?

It's a bit shortsighted when companies bet against any technology, but it wasn't an insane thing to say.

 

[JB1981]

Yes, 'cause we all know the context of these statements had everything to do with market penetration of 1080p and not next-gen hardware's ability to render games at such a resolution.

 

[Oneself]

Honestly, as a PS fanboy and HDTV owner, I must say 1080p support is retarded. IMO It would be much, much more impressive @ 720p & 60fps.

 

[Surreal]

Honestly, as a PS fanboy and HDTV owner, I must say 1080p support is retarded. IMO It would be much, much more impressive @ 720p & 60fps.

QFT. Give me 60 FPS.

Spoiler

if it's possible

 

[Wollan]

Why oh why do you think they could have run this game at 60fps in 720p mode if they dropped 1080p? Do you have any proof at all that the number and quality of effects and certain assets is the same between the resolutions? Resolution is more than likely not the only differences between playing it in 720p and 1080p mode. (Judging by the latest build running in 720p with a few framerate drops it should mean 1080p mode runs at >15 fps right? Of course they will have differences besides the resolution.)

 

[kaching]

I didn't say they should design a game around me

You wanted the game to be 60fps - that has pretty broad impact on the overall design of the game.

They had a goal, said it was 60fps. They failed to meet this in both singleplayer and multiplayer now.

Not true - they said their goal was 60fps and 32 players and they reached that goal. But not enough people were impressed, so they had to shift their priorities.

The sidetracks of constantly bringing up when I am buying a PS3 and 360 is tiresome because it doesn't change that all these things will be impacting me down the line. So, anyway, this was a pretty silly thing to derail a thread over on why to complain.

We're discussing a rather significant decision in the development of this game and the merit of that decision, so I hardly see how it's a derailment of a thread that happens to be about the current state of this game.

If you don't want it to be constantly brought up how price conscious you are, you'd have to start with your own tendency of bringing it up constantly and discussing it forcefully. It's very relevant to point out that the reason why you aren't even considering buying this game until well down the line in the first place has got nothing to do with your complaint about framerate. The level of frustration you express about <60fps framerate (and the way you sometimes lash out at those who don't necessarily care as much) is out of proportion with its apparent place in your list of priorities. And, apparently, devs aren't buying it either.

 

[firefoxsux]

resistance is a launch game, time to dev complex shaders is short? 1080p is not a bad tradeoff if so.

but after launch game please stay 720p for the balance.

1080p is a PR imo because the fillrate wasted better go back to shaders graphic whoreisms.

 

[Amir0x]

You wanted the game to be 60fps - that has pretty broad impact on the overall design of the game.

Complaining about a feature, thinking it's a dumb decision != telling them to design the game around me. I accept they have to do what THEY find best. That doesn't make locked 30fps any less inferior to locked 60fps, or any less worth grumbling about. In the future, though, I'll make sure to remember that posting a complaint about something on a forum is equal to demanding a title is designed around my needs. If it's NOT designed how I like it, then eventually I won't buy it. I'll complain about it and if enough things don't get changed I'll move on. Like every other hardcore gamer, this is not unique :lol

If you don't want it to be constantly brought up how price conscious you are, you'd have to start with your own tendency of bringing it up constantly and discussing it forcefully. It's very relevant to point out that the reason why you aren't even considering buying this game until well down the line in the first place has got nothing to do with your complaint about framerate. The level of frustration you express about <60fps framerate (and the way you sometimes lash out at those who don't necessarily care as much) is out of proportion with its apparent place in your list of priorities. And, apparently, devs aren't buying it either.

I rarely 'lash out' at those who don't care as much - I only express my concern, the lash out comes when people bring up stupid shit like when I'm buying the system where it doesn't apply. It has a place in certain discussions, but not this one. Buying a system at launch or buying the system in 2 years, the game being 30fps will impact me precisely the same.

 

[kaching]

Just because you acknowledge that devs won't necessarily design around your requests doesn't mean you aren't being demanding. Your vehemence regarding framerate speaks for itself.

Buying a system at launch or buying the system in 2 years, the game being 30fps will impact me precisely the same.

No single factor is going to be considered in a complete vaccuum like that where its unaffected by other factors. In November it'll be a $60 game that's only 30fps. In 2 years it'll still be a 30fps game but it'll only be $20, or less. Under which of those circumstances are you more likely to buy the 30fps game?

 

[Amir0x]

Just because you acknowledge that devs won't necessarily design around your requests doesn't mean you aren't being demanding. Your vehemence regarding framerate speaks for itself.

Yes, I will speak my opinions like a simpering ninny so I don't seem too demanding to the non-existant Resistance dev reading my post right now. Don't want to hurt any feelings or make them think I'm steering their development!

No single factor is going to be considered in a complete vaccuum like that where its unaffected by other factors. In November it'll be a $60 game that's only 30fps. In 2 years it'll still be a 30fps game but it'll only be $20, or less. Under which of those circumstances are you more likely to buy the 30fps game?

Again, irrelevant. I would complain about the 30fps even if it was launching at 20 dollars. Either way, it's going to impact my experience with the title. Anyway, that's all I have to say. I like Resistance, so, I don't know why this discussion was so drawn out. I like Res, I dislike 30fps (a lot)!

 

[sol_bad]

Isn't it possible for devs to have a game running at 40 or 50 frames per second? Why is it always 30 or 60?

 

[Zaptruder]

Isn't it possible for devs to have a game running at 40 or 50 frames per second? Why is it always 30 or 60?

refresh rate issues.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Wasnt there supposed to be some 1up.com coverage on resistance?
I remember last weeks 1up Yours mentioning they would see some resistance on tuesday.

 

[Mmmkay]

Wasnt there supposed to be some 1up.com coverage on resistance?
I remember last weeks 1up Yours mentioning they would see some resistance on tuesday.

They said last week that they might be able to talk about it this week, but they didn't mention it at all [insert Kittonwy smiley]

RadiOPM on the other hand did mention that they attended an Insomniac presentation on Resistance, but they were under embargo and couldn't talk about it. Well except that they were impressed with the food and the presentation itself was very well done. Le sigh.

 

[Oneself]

Isn't it possible for devs to have a game running at 40 or 50 frames per second? Why is it always 30 or 60?

Invasion from Beyond FTW!

 

[mrwilt]

Not true - they said their goal was 60fps and 32 players and they reached that goal. But not enough people were impressed, so they had to shift their priorities.

Who the hell is not impressed with 32 players at 60fps!!??

 

[nataku]

Who the hell is not impressed with 32 players at 60fps!!??

He probably means they weren't impressed with the look of the game.

 

[mckmas8808]

Who the hell is not impressed with 32 players at 60fps!!??

They wanted more effects, physics, and more players. So they gave up the 60fps to acheive those 3 things.

 

[Bad_Boy]

They said last week that they might be able to talk about it this week, but they didn't mention it at all [insert Kittonwy smiley]

RadiOPM on the other hand did mention that they attended an Insomniac presentation on Resistance, but they were under embargo and couldn't talk about it. Well except that they were impressed with the food and the presentation itself was very well done. Le sigh.

ah ok, seems the sites were slowly coming out of embargo. gamespot first, ign next,.... just waiting on 1up next.

 

[BuddyC]

ah ok, seems the sites were slowly coming out of embargo. gamespot first, ign next,.... just waiting on 1up next.

But wasn't the event on Tuesday? Because GameSpot had their feature up Monday night, which means it was probably written the week prior, or that morning at the latest, and therefore it couldn't have been based off the Tuesday event.

 

[Bad_Boy]

But wasn't the event on Tuesday? Because GameSpot had their feature up Monday night, which means it was probably written the week prior, or that morning at the latest, and therefore it couldn't have been based off the Tuesday event.

Yeah. Gamespot was monday, IGN was wednesday/thursday I believe. But they both had pretty much the same material (just one was video and the other was on paper) so I assume it was written the week prior like you said.

On the Insomniac forums, they said the gamespot build was newer than the PSM build, but older than the MTV build. So I figured with 1UP seeing resistance on tuesday (which was after the MTV event) we would of seen some new stuff from them. Maybe next week I guess?

 

[Wollan]

The only other Resistance news is a 'non-news' from the OPM podcast.

They can't talk about the game yet but they could talk about the Insomniac offices and presentation. Basically as everyone they were in awe of the offices which actually had cranes for gummy bears and other stuff. (Insomniac is living the lucid dream :lol )
Also, the guy mentioned that the presentation of Resistance was the best presentation and break down of a game he had ever received visiting a developer. Apparantly they were very thorough about every aspect like character development, reasonings..etc.

Also, they mentioned that the November issue of OPM(releasing in october) would have a big exclusive on their possible favorite game shown at E3 but that no one really talked too much about. Sounds like Naughty Dogs Jungle for me.

Here's the OPM podcast:
http://zdmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o1/Podcasts/OPM/083106.mp3

 

[mckmas8808]

But wasn't the event on Tuesday? Because GameSpot had their feature up Monday night, which means it was probably written the week prior, or that morning at the latest, and therefore it couldn't have been based off the Tuesday event.

Ahhh.... good point.

 

[mckmas8808]

Also, they mentioned that the November issue of OPM(releasing in october) would have a big exclusive on their possible favorite game shown at E3 but that no one really talked too much about. Sounds like Naughty Dogs Jungle for me.

Here's the OPM podcast:
http://zdmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o1/Podcasts/OPM/083106.mp3

What would make you think it was ND's jungle game?

 

[Luckyman]

On EGM Live someone said "it looks great now". :lol

 

[mckmas8808]

On EGM Live someone said "it looks great now". :lol

What does that even mean? Damn Sony is screwing up this launch by NOT showing the goods.

 

[Mmmkay]

What would make you think it was ND's jungle game?

I'm not really sure what game it's going to be, either. Joe Rybicki was the OPM editor who covered the mystery event, and he drops some useless hints in his blog:
http://opm.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=7403507&publicUserId=4553267

I will give you three pieces of information: It's a PS3 game. OPM's November issue will be the first place you see anything about it. And I'm very, very excited to see it.

We've already seen Naughty Dog's jungle game, so perhaps LA Noir, Killzone, or Lair? Whatever it is, it's going to be a major title since it's on the cover of the November OPM, i.e. the PS3's launch.

Yes I know, it will be out in October and all. So the December issue will actually be on shelves when the PS3 launches, but the November issue coming out post TGS will be the huge blowout.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I am more interested in the AI and how this game plays. Whether it is 30FPS or 60FPS, whether it is 1080P or not, whether or not it has super-dooper triangular 4-D quatro angular super special textures, or whether or not is is in the bargain bin when I buy it are all irrelevant. I am interested in whether or not this game will give me one of those time-stopping experiences that makes me so glad I am playing the game.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

What does that even mean? Damn Sony is screwing up this launch by NOT showing the goods.

I said the same thing about Microsoft this time last year...

...and that damn 360 was still sold out, almost non-stop, for 4 months.

 

[Luckyman]

We've already seen Naughty Dog's jungle game, so perhaps LA Noir, Killzone, or Lair? Whatever it is, it's going to be a major title since it's on the cover of the November OPM, i.e. the PS3's launch.

first place you see anything about it.

La Noire trailer at TGS is kind of a no-brainer. That dosen't leave much.. GTA4. :lol

 

[Wollan]

La Noire trailer at TGS is kind of a no-brainer.

I seriously doubt that. It's a very western audience directed game. I would be really surprised if TGS was the show to unveil it.

What would make you think it was ND's jungle game?

Just how they worded it on the podcast.

 

[Luckyman]

I seriously doubt that. It's a very western audience directed game. I would be really surprised if TGS was the show to unveil it.

trailer highlighting the game will soon be released by our new publisher.

Which was suppose to be at the PS Meeting..? But that never happened.

 

[Kleegamefan]

La Noire trailer at TGS is kind of a no-brainer. That dosen't leave much.. GTA4. :lol

There could be tons of other unnannounced PS3 games that we dont know about there....

There is so little known about PS3 that I am sure there will be some surprises there...

 

[mrwilt]

But wasn't the event on Tuesday? Because GameSpot had their feature up Monday night, which means it was probably written the week prior, or that morning at the latest, and therefore it couldn't have been based off the Tuesday event.

This is what James Stevenson of Insomniac said on their forums about the Tuesday interview:

"As I said, we aren't letting people write about the event right away. But you won't be without information next week. There will be some stories and stuff."

The "some stories and stuff" is what we got Monday from Gamespot and Wednesday/Thursday from IGN. Apparently the new info from the Tuesday interview won't be viewable until some time in September.

 

[mckmas8808]

Just how they worded it on the podcast.

How did they word it? Did they say the word jungle, woods, or swamp?

 

[Wollan]

It's just a guess by me. You should listen to it since I'm not so sure about one line they said(basically some folks questioned the the game or something).

 

[Wollan]

New newsletter:

Hi Insomniacs!

Like Burbank's summer weather, the past four weeks inside Insomniac have been sizzling. We're entrenched in the stretch run of production on Resistance: Fall of Man, but fortunately we've been watching the anticipation meter for the game steadily rise. This past month, we've received a record amount of visitors to www.insomniacgames.com, for example.

On the heels of a great cover story in PSM magazine, this month Gamespot wrote a well-balanced hands-on impressions story about Resistance that you can read here: http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/insomniacshooter/news.html?sid=6156671&tag=topslot;action;4 IGN just posted an in-depth Q&A from us Insomniacs as well, which you can see on their homepage at www.ign.com. More previews to come soon, including one where we offered unprecedented access to our studio. We're pumped, and can't wait to read everything along with you.

In other exciting news, Sony Computer Entertainment America's official Resistance: Fall of Man website has started to take shape too, at http://www.us.playstation.com/Content/OGS/GMID-018/Site/. Stay tuned to this site because much, much more will be revealed here.

Despite all this intense buzz, we've managed to keep things somewhat light around the office lately through fun activities like Happy Hours, free chair massage Wednesdays and a Smoothie Bar. Check out the details in our Buzz section within the Insomniac Community.

Also, don't miss former videogames reviewer-turned-Insomniac James Stevenson's latest Blarg, this time on the "joys" of capturing screenshots. For those of you who wonder why we only release a few of these coveted jewels at a time, THIS is the blog you want to read. Sign in at http://www.insomniacgames.com/community.php to check it.

That's it for now. Next month is going to rock for Resistance: Fall of Man fans.

As always, if you'd like to be removed from this mailing list, please login to your account on http://www.insomniacgames.com, edit your profile, and uncheck the newsletter option. If you've forgotten your login, click on http://www.insomniacgames.com/community/password.php and it will be emailed to you.

Happy Gaming!
Insomniac Games