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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!

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televator

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Sep 21, 2011
10,852
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Emulation has inherent lag. PS1 on PS3 is entirely emulation. Even if the PS3 line multiplied 240p and avoided the added lag of image processing, there'd still be lag.
 

CrashPrime

Member
Sep 25, 2007
3,507
0
0
Wisconsin
Emulation has inherent lag. PS1 on PS3 is entirely emulation. Even if the PS3 line multiplied 240p and avoided the added lag of image processing, there'd still be lag.

So is that to say the PS3 and the PSTV have the same input lag as say something like a raspberry pi running a PS1 game? Has anyone actually measured the lag on various emulation based systems?
 

televator

Member
Sep 21, 2011
10,852
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So is that to say the PS3 and the PSTV have the same input lag as say something like a raspberry pi running a PS1 game? Has anyone actually measured the lag on various emulation based systems?

Could be more. Could be less. It wasn't to say anything about that specifically, than it was to address the the theory that scaling was the sole source of lag.
 

Kiddy Dong

Member
Jun 23, 2015
516
0
0
Last week I found a 20" Dell D1626HT PC monitor on eBay for $1 while browsing for multiformat PVMs. Local pickup only, but it was in my state and I figured it would be a good size upgrade from the 16" PC monitors I've been hunching over for 480p gaming. I wasn't expecting a massive improvement in image quality, just a bigger size for more comfortable viewing.

I was dead wrong in the best possible way. This monitor. is. AMAZING. I'm legitimately blown away by how good the picture is compared to the other monitors. I would not be surprised at all if this was PVM caliber 480p. This plus the Garo is a match made in heaven.

I find it a bit puzzling that while multiformat PVMs and BVMs are commanding hundreds or even thousands of dollars on eBay, these excellent 480p Trinitron PC monitors are being given away for pennies with no fanfare. If anyone else is looking for a good 480p gaming rig, don't sleep on these Dell monitors.
 

Triforce141

Member
Apr 6, 2015
4,606
1
0
Last week I found a 20" Dell D1626HT PC monitor on eBay for $1 while browsing for multiformat PVMs. Local pickup only, but it was in my state and I figured it would be a good size upgrade from the 16" PC monitors I've been hunching over for 480p gaming. I wasn't expecting a massive improvement in image quality, just a bigger size for more comfortable viewing.

I was dead wrong in the best possible way. This monitor. is. AMAZING. I'm legitimately blown away by how good the picture is compared to the other monitors. I would not be surprised at all if this was PVM caliber 480p. This plus the Garo is a match made in heaven.

I find it a bit puzzling that while multiformat PVMs and BVMs are commanding hundreds or even thousands of dollars on eBay, these excellent 480p Trinitron PC monitors are being given away for pennies with no fanfare. If anyone else is looking for a good 480p gaming rig, don't sleep on these Dell monitors.

Hold on a moment, one dollar?

If so, that's one hell of a find
 

Kiddy Dong

Member
Jun 23, 2015
516
0
0
Hold on a moment, one dollar?

If so, that's one hell of a find

Yep, one dollar. The guy selling it had been trying to give it away for weeks to no avail, so as to avoid the $20 recycling fee. The catch was that it was located in the middle of nowhere in central Wisconsin.
 

Eklipsis

Member
Apr 17, 2012
417
0
550
West Michigan
Found a genesis and a gameboy at a yard sale. Genesis had three games with it but the gameboy didn't have any. Got it all for 30 bucks.

Genesis needs a av cable because I got excited and didn't make sure everything was there. I popped in some batteries into the gameboy and it's got some dead lines in it. Now I'm bummed.
 

Vespa

Member
Apr 10, 2007
1,097
2
870
Last week I found a 20" Dell D1626HT PC monitor on eBay for $1 while browsing for multiformat PVMs.

Great pick up! pc CRTs <3 couple it with an OSSC for line doubling and you're good for a fair bit of 240p gaming too. (except for those pesky titles that switch between 240p/480i).
 

Kiddy Dong

Member
Jun 23, 2015
516
0
0
So is there such thing as a non-optical media way to play PS1 @ 240p outside the PSPGo? PS2's can be softmodded to support using a hard drive to spare the poor laser, but its PS1 compatibility off the HDD is miserable and the key game I want to have is Castlevania Symphony of the Night and of course it isn't compatible. I play it pretty frequently on my PS2 via component cables but that laser is a ticking time bomb considering I burned out 2 lasers last year on used PS2's.

Are you using the latest popstarter build with an internal HDD? That's what I've been using and SotN doesn't seem to have issues. USB HDD on the other hand...That is miserable indeed.
 

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Aug 27, 2013
6,334
1
0
Are you using the latest popstarter build with an internal HDD? That's what I've been using and SotN doesn't seem to have issues. USB HDD on the other hand...That is miserable indeed.

The pops emulator for PS2 has a long list of issues even with an internal hard drive, so many that it's really not worth bothering with imo.
 

Dambrosi

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
6,741
1
0
Liverpool, UK
Just got myself a PVM last week, just a little 14L3, to replace a borrowed 24" Trinitron TV. Since they were both Trinitrons, I wasn't expecting such a huge difference in picture quality, especially through a SCART splitter, but boy oh boy was I wrong. It really is like night and day, especially with Megadrive/Mega CD and Saturn. My SuFami is a modded Model 1, and so has its own issues wrt RGB output, but compared to the old TV, it's sogood.gif at worst. Even the composite output from my Core Grafx shits all over the old TV's horribly fuzzy mess.

I can honestly say that, aside from the Switch and Zelda, and maybe my Persona 5 Take Your Heart Edition, and perhaps my Battle Garrega 2016 Limited Edition (yeah, I'll stop now), this is the best gaming investment I've made so far this year. And it's been a great year for games.
 

Brhoom

Banned
Sep 29, 2014
2,015
0
270
I don't need a PVM
I don't need a PVM
I don't need a PVM
I don't need another console just for 1 game
I don't need another console just for 1 game
I need that console for that 1 game
I need a PVM
I will be broke
I can't manage another purchase this month
You can manage another purchase this month

Help
 
Dec 10, 2014
11,098
14
310
I don't need a PVM
I don't need a PVM
I don't need a PVM
I don't need another console just for 1 game
I don't need another console just for 1 game
I need that console for that 1 game
I need a PVM
I will be broke
I can't manage another purchase this month
You can manage another purchase this month

Help

you need it! buy it now =)
 

Galdelico

Member
Apr 15, 2010
2,809
4
0
twitter.com
I don't need a PVM
I don't need a PVM
I don't need a PVM
I don't need another console just for 1 game
I don't need another console just for 1 game
I need that console for that 1 game
I need a PVM
I will be broke
I can't manage another purchase this month
You can manage another purchase this month

Help
This reasoning...
So familiar, lol
 

c-murph

Member
Feb 6, 2010
3,376
0
570
I don't need a PVM
I don't need a PVM
I don't need a PVM
I don't need another console just for 1 game
I don't need another console just for 1 game
I need that console for that 1 game
I need a PVM
I will be broke
I can't manage another purchase this month
You can manage another purchase this month

Help

You mean you haven't bought it already?!
 

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Aug 27, 2013
6,334
1
0
I was busy with family yesterday for Good Friday so I didn't notice MLiG put up a new video. Watching now.

RGB308 :: RGB and Component Switchers

I got all excited about the gscartsw lite. I mean, same thing but costs way less? Sounds great! Like if it's even sub-$100 that would be enough, preferably lower, right?

superg said:
Not sure on that, lite price is $180 with power supply included, that's the lowest I can do at the moment.
It all depends on factors like component pricing, manufacturing costs and case laser cutting and from my experience those costs usually don't go lower.
Lite is optimal on price / features, much better than gscartsw in that regard.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1249423#p1249423]

+$35 shipping. So factoring in conversion into CAD it's almost $300. Without getting into customs fees.

 

KingErich

Banned
May 16, 2014
344
0
0
I got my NTSC S-Video cable from console goods, I'm in the UK so shipping was cheap, might be worth shooting an email to inquire about shipping costs?

If your s-video cable also has the yellow composite plug on it then it's probably garbage. I followed RetroRGB's advice and bought mine from maxwar82 on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/merchant/ma..._mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_sop=12&rmvSB=true

Thanks, I'll check those out. I ended up buying cables from Amazon. They only have the SVIDEO no Composite. I will test those out and update. If they don't work. I'll try the ones you guys linked to.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Sep 25, 2005
55,613
6
1,440
I see a Sony FD Trinitron KV-27FS100 for $50 on Craigslist. Good CRT for 240p content? Anything I should look for when looking at it?
 

Shin Johnpv

Member
Nov 12, 2004
8,602
0
0
42
Gokuentou
I got all excited about the gscartsw lite. I mean, same thing but costs way less? Sounds great! Like if it's even sub-$100 that would be enough, preferably lower, right?



+$35 shipping. So factoring in conversion into CAD it's almost $300. Without getting into customs fees.


I do wonder how much it would shave off the cost of the switcher if it wasn't a x2 one, and just had one single scart out.
 

CharlesDangus

Member
Sep 28, 2012
119
0
0
I see a Sony FD Trinitron KV-27FS100 for $50 on Craigslist. Good CRT for 240p content? Anything I should look for when looking at it?

I picked this exact model from Goodwill a few years ago before I did a deep dive into hi fidelity retro gaming. It has component input which is great. My Sega Genesis using HDRetrovision's component cables looks really good. I've also played Castlevania: Sotn on my PS2 with component cables which also looks great, but it made me notice something about the TV's geometry. With side scrolling 2D games you can see warping in the image when the character moves to the edge of the screen. I know there are some ways to open up CRTs and adjust the geometry but that's way above my pay grade and I'm not looking to get electrocuted. Maybe there's a service menu I'm not aware of where these adjustments can be made but my set didn't come with a remote. But overall it's a great set for 240p/480i content.
 

CrashPrime

Member
Sep 25, 2007
3,507
0
0
Wisconsin
I see a Sony FD Trinitron KV-27FS100 for $50 on Craigslist. Good CRT for 240p content? Anything I should look for when looking at it?

Pretty top notch for CRT. Keep in mind it is a flat screen CRT which I personally don't like. FS120 or KV300/KV310 are my preference for consumer CRT grails. My 36" FS120 treats me right until I have to move it. I always keep an open eye for the 300/310 to show up locally tho.
 

sixteen-bit

Member
Aug 16, 2006
169,313
24
0
I see a Sony FD Trinitron KV-27FS100 for $50 on Craigslist. Good CRT for 240p content? Anything I should look for when looking at it?

I have a similar model (KV-27FS120) and don't have any complaints. I got mine for $20 if it matters maybe you can haggle it down.
 

socksfelloff

Member
May 5, 2015
1,762
95
425
I have a similar model (KV-27FS120) and don't have any complaints. I got mine for $20 if it matters maybe you can haggle it down.

The FS100/120 will do a great job for retro games. I recently went from a 27FS120 to a 32FV310 and the difference is staggering.
 

dubc35

Member
Oct 29, 2010
4,731
0
0
bah, I have a PVM but the Trinitron talk had me looking on craigslist. I have no room for another TV but man some are temping, a couple good Sony's and a nice JVC for $5-20/each lol.
 

socksfelloff

Member
May 5, 2015
1,762
95
425
bah, I have a PVM but the Trinitron talk had me looking on craigslist. I have no room for another TV but man some are temping, a couple good Sony's and a nice JVC for $5-20/each lol.

I have a 20" BVM but the 310 is basically a 32" bvm!

I enjoy playing retro games with friends and cramming 4 people around a 20" monitor isnt happening!
 

dubc35

Member
Oct 29, 2010
4,731
0
0
I have a 20" BVM but the 310 is basically a 32" bvm!

I enjoy playing retro games with friends and cramming 4 people around a 20" monitor isnt happening!
Good point, I'm gaming by myself so I can't justify screen size for space. I gamed on a 13" for a year or so before lucking into getting a 20" so it still feels like a big upgrade. The geometry is much better as well.
 

dhonk

Member
Apr 6, 2013
1,995
0
0
Last week I found a 20" Dell D1626HT PC monitor on eBay for $1 while browsing for multiformat PVMs. Local pickup only, but it was in my state and I figured it would be a good size upgrade from the 16" PC monitors I've been hunching over for 480p gaming. I wasn't expecting a massive improvement in image quality, just a bigger size for more comfortable viewing.

I was dead wrong in the best possible way. This monitor. is. AMAZING. I'm legitimately blown away by how good the picture is compared to the other monitors. I would not be surprised at all if this was PVM caliber 480p. This plus the Garo is a match made in heaven.

I find it a bit puzzling that while multiformat PVMs and BVMs are commanding hundreds or even thousands of dollars on eBay, these excellent 480p Trinitron PC monitors are being given away for pennies with no fanfare. If anyone else is looking for a good 480p gaming rig, don't sleep on these Dell monitors.


I feel like this is going to be the next big monitor boom honestly. I'm going to pick up a GDM-FW900 in 2 days after I saw it pop up on Craigslist.
 

dubc35

Member
Oct 29, 2010
4,731
0
0
I feel like this is going to be the next big monitor boom honestly. I'm going to pick up a GDM-FW900 in 2 days after I saw it pop up on Craigslist.
What are the specs to look for besides 480p capability? I know nothing of PC monitors pre-flat panel displays.
 

dhonk

Member
Apr 6, 2013
1,995
0
0
What are the specs to look for besides 480p capability? I know nothing of PC monitors pre-flat panel displays.

Honestly the one Im grabbing I intend to use with PC gaming but I will try a Frameister on it once I get an HDFury HDMI > VGA. I know most computer monitors won't work with the retro consoles most of us are talking about without an upscaler / converter for VGA. So I'm not sure what base specs to suggest! Pretty much any of them will look good with VGA stuff like Dreamcast if they aren't broken / busted in some way.
 

socksfelloff

Member
May 5, 2015
1,762
95
425
I feel like this is going to be the next big monitor boom honestly. I'm going to pick up a GDM-FW900 in 2 days after I saw it pop up on Craigslist.


LUCKY! To the others wondering, the appeal to the fw900 is its the BVM equivilant of VGA monitors as well as 16:9!

Component - vga is a straight conversion so 480p will look godlike on that monitor!
 

Kiddy Dong

Member
Jun 23, 2015
516
0
0
I feel like this is going to be the next big monitor boom honestly. I'm going to pick up a GDM-FW900 in 2 days after I saw it pop up on Craigslist.

Damn dude! That is probably the most well known of all the 31khz+ monitors. Perfect for anything gen 7 or beyond.

Yeah, I wonder if more console gamers will start to catch on to some of the lesser known PC monitors, like the one I picked up. These are Trinitrons after all.

What are the specs to look for besides 480p capability? I know nothing of PC monitors pre-flat panel displays.

Dot pitch: lower number is generally better.

Tube type: I prefer the Trinitron aperture grill look, found in Sony and many Dell models.

Size: 16" viewable size is extremely common, 20"+ and/or widescreen monitors seem to be much tougher to find.

Customizability: some monitors allow you to extensively tweak color temperature, convergence, etc...And some barely allow any customization at all.

Cabling: some monitors have the VGA cable built into the monitor. Might seem convenient but if the cable frays you might end up with a paperweight. I try to look for ones with the female VGA port on the back as opposed to integrated cable.

Inputs: my D1626HT has BNC ports for RGBHV in addition to VGA. Nice to have options.

Console compatibility: only PC, Xbox 360, and Dreamcast support VGA natively to my knowledge. I use the Garo (component to VGA transcoder) to expand that to OG Xbox, Wii, and GameCube. If you use Nintendont on a homebrewed Wii you can force 480p on tons of gamecube games that didn't support it originally.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Sep 25, 2005
55,613
6
1,440
In regards to that Trinitron I posted above, is there a ~20" variant (or something of equal quality) with component input as well (at least s-video)? Even a 27" is a beast of a TV that I don't want to move.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Jan 21, 2013
11,853
4
565
Norway
I don't need a PVM
I don't need a PVM
I don't need a PVM
I don't need another console just for 1 game
I don't need another console just for 1 game
I need that console for that 1 game
I need a PVM
I will be broke
I can't manage another purchase this month
You can manage another purchase this month

Help

Are you me?
 

sixteen-bit

Member
Aug 16, 2006
169,313
24
0
In regards to that Trinitron I posted above, is there a ~20" variant (or something of equal quality) with component input as well (at least s-video)? Even a 27" is a beast of a TV that I don't want to move.

I've seen 21" consumer trinitron and wega tvs with component inputs a few times at yard sales and the like. In retrospect I should've grabbed one.
 

socksfelloff

Member
May 5, 2015
1,762
95
425
In regards to that Trinitron I posted above, is there a ~20" variant (or something of equal quality) with component input as well (at least s-video)? Even a 27" is a beast of a TV that I don't want to move.

There is a 14" and 20" of the fs100 series! I grabbed a 20fs100 for a friend. I calibrated it for him which gave me some time to play around with it and I thought it was a great little TV and it's light as a feather (for a crt)
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Jan 11, 2005
31,107
1
1,635
I posted about it last week after that video was put up. I also posted about another one from 2 weeks before that from his Roundup #47.
 

dhonk

Member
Apr 6, 2013
1,995
0
0
Found out why he stopped calling it Plug n Play, someone started making these already. Seems to be lesser in quality in terms of the plug, GCVideo X will almost certainly be the nicer finish of the two. And currently theres no way to bring up the GCVideo menu with this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CqTddnBCeY



He doesnt have any in stock, so yeah.
 

Timu

Member
Sep 8, 2013
20,072
3
0
Saint Leonard, MD
Found out why he stopped calling it Plug n Play, someone started making these already. Seems to be lesser in quality in terms of the plug, GCVideo X will almost certainly be the nicer finish of the two. And currently theres no way to bring up the GCVideo menu with this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CqTddnBCeY



He doesnt have any in stock, so yeah.
This needs to be in stock right away!!!
 

dhonk

Member
Apr 6, 2013
1,995
0
0
Yeah, I'd probably wait and see how GCVideoX is going to turn out since you'll be able to get at the menu functions with that but thats just me! I dont think theres many reasons to change the settings in the menu though.
 

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Aug 27, 2013
6,334
1
0
Yeah, I'd probably wait and see how GCVideoX is going to turn out since you'll be able to get at the menu functions with that but thats just me! I dont think theres many reasons to change the settings in the menu though.

Did he say it would actually support menu?

The digital port does not have a pin that connects to the controller (which GCVideo uses to do controller stuff) so it shouldn't be possible with a fully external model.
 

dhonk

Member
Apr 6, 2013
1,995
0
0
Did he say it would actually support menu?

The digital port does not have a pin that connects to the controller (which GCVideo uses to do controller stuff) so it shouldn't be possible with a fully external model.

In the interview he mentioned either a button on the connector itself or IR sensor that would support a remote as the method for menu support.
 

polyh3dron

Banned
Jan 14, 2007
41,965
3
0
Los Angeles, CA
In regards to that Trinitron I posted above, is there a ~20" variant (or something of equal quality) with component input as well (at least s-video)? Even a 27" is a beast of a TV that I don't want to move.
PVM-20M2U or 20M4U is what you should try and find.

Supports S-Video, Composite (w/BNC Adapter), 240p, RGB and YPbPr via BNC as well.
 

dubc35

Member
Oct 29, 2010
4,731
0
0
dumb question: If you RGB mod a NES front loader, can you still use composite as well? Or is it locked to only output RGB?

edit, nvm, found the answer on shmups:
[Guspaz] It does not. RF won't work unless you shut off the NESRGB, basically the same situation as the NES' built-in composite video: it doesn't work while the NESRGB is active. That said, the NESRGB provides its own composite video output. No RF though.
 

Peltz

Member
Apr 26, 2014
16,507
14
575
Last week I found a 20" Dell D1626HT PC monitor on eBay for $1 while browsing for multiformat PVMs. Local pickup only, but it was in my state and I figured it would be a good size upgrade from the 16" PC monitors I've been hunching over for 480p gaming. I wasn't expecting a massive improvement in image quality, just a bigger size for more comfortable viewing.

I was dead wrong in the best possible way. This monitor. is. AMAZING. I'm legitimately blown away by how good the picture is compared to the other monitors. I would not be surprised at all if this was PVM caliber 480p. This plus the Garo is a match made in heaven.

I find it a bit puzzling that while multiformat PVMs and BVMs are commanding hundreds or even thousands of dollars on eBay, these excellent 480p Trinitron PC monitors are being given away for pennies with no fanfare. If anyone else is looking for a good 480p gaming rig, don't sleep on these Dell monitors.

You can't play 240p or 480i on them if I'm not mistaken. That's why they're so cheap. Plus, they came with old computers for free a lot of the time. They're not broadcast tools.

I agree they are great quality though and worth picking up for 480p gaming if possible.
 

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Aug 27, 2013
6,334
1
0
dumb question: If you RGB mod a NES front loader, can you still use composite as well? Or is it locked to only output RGB?

If you have the NESRGB enabled the NES composite is disabled and the output composite is encoded from RGB inside NESRGB. However if you install a palette switch you can set it up so one of the options is to completely disable NESRGB and have composite from directly from the NES PPU.
 
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