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[Celine]

Nintendo and Sega profitability between FY '86 and FY '01 when Sega abandoned the console business:

Note:
Nintendo FY changed from ending in August to March in FY '90
Sega FY changed from ending in April to March in FY '91

Sources:
Nintendo: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/xls/consolidated_pl_e1403.xls
Sega: http://gyousekiman.blog133.fc2.com/blog-entry-163.html

EDIT:
For both I took consolidated statement.
The previous graph on the same subject I did had non-consolidated data for Sega.

 

[Captain Smoker]

So, I found this thread (it's french) and they're talking about two books by Florent Gorges and he lists the following yearly sales numbers in his books (for Master System & NES).
www.mastersystem-france.com/t2217p15-le-resultat-de-la-guerre-presque-20-ans-apres

They also mention that he uses GfK numbers?, but some also mention that his numbers are not that correct? It's french, I can only assume because of Google Translate gibberish.

From the thread:
"Florent Gorges nous livre pour la première fois les chiffres de vente officiels (GFK France) de notre chère SMS au pays du camembert! Et patatras, alors que comme beaucoup
de monde, je croyais le match très équilibré, la NES a fait le double de la Master (presque 2 millions contre un peu moins de 1 million) sur la période 88-93."


Anyway:

Master System France
1988: 10.000
1989: 29.000
1990: 140.000
1991: 375.000
1992: 235.000
1993: 181.000

Total: 970.000


NES France
1988: 33.000
1989: 89.000
1990: 327.000
1991: 697.000
1992: 436.000
1993: 206.000

Total: 1.788.000

 

[Celine]

Squaresoft shipment data for FY 2002.

Should be Japan:

Should be America:

Should be Europe:

The first image is of special interest because software shipment for WonderSwan software is a rare sight.

Shipment data for Square games for WonderSwan relative to FY '02:

Final Fantasy II: 330K
Romancing Sa・Ga: 120K
Final Fantasy IV: 90K
Makai Toushi Sa・Ga: 50K
Blue Wing Blitz: 20K
Hanjuku Hero: Aa, Sekaiyo Hanjukunare...!: 20K

 

[Celine]

SNK status during the first half of NEO GEO era (1991-1995, with 1996 being a projection).

Gross sales:

Number of employees:

Number of outlet in Japan:

SNK promotional video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1yyAA1wgDE

 

[Captain Smoker]

Shipments of games created by Quintet (via Internet Archive).
http://web.archive.org/web/20070928014230/http://www.quintet.co.jp/q_games.html

Enix published most of their games back then.


ActRaiser
Jap.: 400.000
USA: 180.000
EU: 40.000
Total: 620.000

Soul Blazer
Jap.: 200.000
USA: 70.000
EU: 25.000
Total: 295.000

Act Raiser 2
Jap.: 40.000
USA: 100.000
EU: 40.000
Total: 180.000

Illusion of Gaia
Jap.: 200.000
USA: 300.000
EU: 150.000
Total: 650.000

Robotrek
Jap.: 45.000
USA: 20.000
EU: -
Total: 65.000

Terranigma <3
Jap.: 200.000
USA: -
EU: ?
Total: 200.000

 

[Celine]

Shipments of games created by Quintet (via Internet Archive).

Best developer ever.
They died for our sins.

 

[A Black Falcon]

NoA: "Illusion of Gaia sold best in the US! So how about we don't release the sequel in America?"

 

[sixteen-bit]

NoA: "Illusion of Gaia sold best in the US! So how about we don't release the sequel in America?"

I recall IoG being heavily marketed in North America. Maybe the ROI wasn't great after factoring marketing costs. 300K is probably small potatoes especially when you consider other stuff Nintendo was publishing in 1994 like DKC.

 

[Datschge]

NoA: "Illusion of Gaia sold best in the US! So how about we don't release the sequel in America?"

IoG was localized by the US Enix which closed its doors before Terranigma arrived. Nintendo of Europe localized the games themselves and had an ongoing contract with Enix for localizing three games which were Soul Blazer (1994), Illusion of Time (1995) and Terranigma (1996).

 

[A Black Falcon]

IoG was localized by the US Enix which closed its doors before Terranigma arrived. Nintendo of Europe localized the games themselves and had an ongoing contract with Enix for localizing three games which were Soul Blazer (1994), Illusion of Time (1995) and Terranigma (1996).

Nintendo of America published Illusion of Gaia in the US. I'm sure they could have easily localized and published Terranigma if they wanted to.

I recall IoG being heavily marketed in North America. Maybe the ROI wasn't great after factoring marketing costs. 300K is probably small potatoes especially when you consider other stuff Nintendo was publishing in 1994 like DKC.

I don't know, those are big numbers for something not a major Nintendo franchise title.

 

[terrisus]

I just remembered that I have this saved, which another GAFfer had posted in another thread (can't remember who or where >.>), which I don't think has been posted here yet (if it has, sorry, I'll edit it out so as to not clutter things up)

 

[allan-bh]

I'm really enjoying this thread, a lot of interesting infos.

There is NPD numbers for Saturn software sales floating around the net? I saw PS1 and N64 and I'd love to see data for Saturn games.

 

[BKK]

I remember this MMC report, finally found the source for the GameGear numbers I had again. ^^

I think we can probably leave it in the ballpark of 83.000 units for 1990, because I don't know if we're going to get any better reports than this and ChartTrack/ELSPA seems to have used the same data for really old estimates.

Crazy how strong the MegaDrive/Genesis was compared to the SNES.


There's also some pre-1991 data for 8-bit systems by Electronic Arts (and some after 1993), numbers differ from MMC/ELSPA.

Mega Drive seems too high, SNES probably about right, still EA's 16-bit estimates are 1 million higher than Chart-Track's.

NES probably a bit high, SMS looks about right.

Playstation too low, Saturn close enough.

Filling in a few gaps;

PLAYSTATION SAID TO HAVE RECORD SALES
Monday 6 November 1995 | 00:00 CET | News

Sony (Japan), consumer electronics concern, says that its PlayStation 32-bit video games system has sold 50k units in five weeks, making it the quickest-selling system in the UK. Meanwhile, Sega (Japan), games specialist, says that its Saturn 32-bit games system has sold 50k units wholesale since it was launched in the UK in summer 1995. Sony aims to sell 2 mil PlayStation units in Japan by end-1995. Sony also says it has sold 300k PlayStations in N America and 200k in Europe since early-autumn 1995. Sega claims to have sold 1.5 mil Saturns in Japan and 100k units in Europe. Article discusses PlayStation and Saturn in further detail.

Sega using shipped here.

SEGA, SONY CLAIM SALES FOR SATURN, PLAYSTATION
Tuesday 9 January 1996 | 00:00 CET | News

Sony and Sega are claiming that the PlayStation and Saturn sold 200k units in the UK in 1995. According to Sony, the PlayStation had 130k unit sales at sell-through, with around 35k units being sold in December 1995. According to Sega, the Saturn sold 25k units in December 1995, and its UK installed base is around 80k machines. Sony emphasises that its 130k units figure is correct, but places Saturn sales at around 50k units in the UK.

Sega still using shipped, Sony's figures fit the Chart-Track chart fairly well.

SEGA CLAIMS MARKET LEADERSHIP, CRITICISES SONY
Tuesday 19 March 1996 | 00:00 CET | News

Sega has claimed leadership of the games market in the UK, despite Gallup figures which place the Saturn slightly behind the PlayStation, and has accused Sony of using copycat retail tactics. Sega claims that at the time of the Gallup survey, it was 38 machines behind the PlayStation, but has now reversed the situation. Sony has dismissed the comments, claiming that total sales of the PlayStation have reached 156k, with Saturn sell-through running at 57,500 units.

SONY CHALLENGES SEGA OVER PLAYSTATION, SATURN SALES
Tuesday 26 March 1996 | 00:00 CET | News

Sony has challenged Sega to agree to an audit of Sega's Saturn and Sony's PlayStation video games machines sales since 1995, when the machines were launched. The challenge follows Sega's recent claims that it is leading the 32-bit market in the UK. According to Sony, the audit would show that PlayStation sales are substantially higher than those of the Saturn. Overall PlayStation sales in the UK are said to be 160k units. Sony's 'best estimate' for Saturn sales are 60k units. Sony has offered to pay 50% of the GBP6k cost for the audit. Sega has refused Sony's challenge.

lol

SONY MISSES OUT ON SALES OF 100K PLAYSTATIONS
Tuesday 11 February 1997 | 00:00 CET | News

Sony has announced that it missed out on sales of 100k of its PlayStation games consoles in Europe, of which 50k unit sales were lost in Germany, 20k unit sales were lost in France, and 30k unit sales were lost across other territories in Europe. Lack of stock was the reason for Sony missing out on the sales. However, as at 01 January 1997, Sony had an installed base of 700k PlayStations in the UK, 515k units in France, 345k units in Germany, 100k units in Scandinavia, 97k units in Spain, 85k units in Italy and 80k units in Benelux. Total installed base for Australasia and Europe totalled 2.2 mil as at 01 January 1997, of which just under 2.1 mil units were in Europe.

SEGA SATURN SALES FORECAST TO RISE
Tuesday 25 March 1997 | 00:00 CET | News

Sega Europe has criticised suggestions that the fight for leadership in the European console market is becoming a race solely between Sony and Nintendo. According to Sega, the Saturn is still the most credible alternative to the Sony PlayStation, and will have sales higher than those of the Nintendo 64 in 1997. Sega had a 900k units installed base of Saturns at end-FY to 28 February 1997, of which around 400k were in the UK. The Saturn is forecast to have 1 mil higher unit sales in Europe in 1997, of which 400k-500k will be in the UK, according to Sega. THE Games (UK), distributor of the Nintendo 64, is said to believe that a target of about 400k unit sales of the Nintendo 64 by January 1998 is achievable.

They probably never shipped any more Saturns to the UK.

ADVANCED GAMES CONSOLES SALES IN 1997 CONSIDERED
Monday 13 July 1998 | 00:00 CET | News

World: Total advanced games console sales in the US, excluding MPCs, rose to 11.06 mil units in 1997, vs 4.7 mil units in 1996, with the Sony PlayStation accounting for 6.3 mil units, vs 2.3 mil units, the Nintendo 64 (N64) for 4.7 mil units, vs 1.5 mil units, and the Sega Saturn for 60k units, 900k units, according to Screen Digest magazine. Total sales in Japan reached 7.4 mil units in 1997, vs 6.5 mil units in 1996, divided into 4 mil PlayStation consoles, vs 2.9 mil units, 2 mil N64 consoles, vs 1.7 mil units, and 1.4 mil Saturn consoles, vs 1.9 mil units. Total sales in W Europe reached 7.32 mil units, vs 2.21 mil units, divided into 4.42 mil Playstation consoles, vs 1.63 mil units, 2.64 mil N64s, vs 23,400 units, and 256k Saturn consoles, vs 557k units. Sales in the UK reached 2 mil units in 1997, vs 770k units in 1996, divided into 1.23 mil PlayStation consoles, vs 575k units, 640k N64s and 130k Saturn consoles, vs 195k units. Sales in Germany reached 1.63 mil units, vs 330k units, made up of 837k PlayStation consoles, vs 275k units, 780k N64s and 15k Saturn consoles, vs 55k units in 1996. Data in source is displayed in table form and lists data for other countries.

Screen Digest worked with ELSPA on their reports, their UK figures should be Chart-Track. The 1996 and 1997 numbers here fit well with the Chart-Track chart.

SONY, NINTENDO REPORT HARDWARE SALES FOR 1998
Tuesday 12 January 1999 | 00:00 CET | News

Sony and Nintendo sold over 300k hardware units between them in the period 12-26 December 1998, with Christmas 1998 proving to be the most successful ever for the games market in the UK. Sony sold 250k PlayStation consoles in the period 12-26 December 1998, for total UK sales of 1.8 mil units in 1998. The firm estimates a total UK installed base of 3.75 mil PlayStations and expects this to reach four mil units by end-March 1999. THE (UK), Nintendo distributor, sold over 80k N64 consoles between 12-26 December 1998, vs over 100k units in the year-earlier period, for total 1998 UK sales of 600k units. Nintendo now has a UK installed base of 1.2 mil N64 consoles.

Seems to be sell though, pretty close to Chart-Track chart.

	1995	1996	1997	1998	1999	2000	2001	2002	2003	2004	2005	LTD
PS1	0.130	0.575	1.230	1.800	1.460	0.800	0.530	0.370	0.170	0.080	0.030	7.190
SAT	0.050	0.195	0.130		-	-	-	-	-	-	-	0.400
N64	-	-	0.640	0.600	0.210	0.130	0.020	-	-	-	-	1.600
TTL	0.170	0.770	1.970	2.380	1.670	0.930	0.550	0.370	0.170	0.080	0.030	9.090
												
SDC	-	-	-	-	0.210	0.240	0.140	-	-	-	-	0.590
PS2	-	-	-	-	-	0.160	1.620	1.940	1.690	1.290	1.340	8.030
XBX	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	0.560	0.620	0.640	0.330	2.140
GCN	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	0.420	0.350	0.250	0.130	1.150
TTL 	-	-	-	-	0.210	0.400	1.760	2.930	2.650	2.170	1.800	11.920

 

[Captain Smoker]

Seems to be sell though, pretty close to Chart-Track chart.

	1995	1996	1997	1998	1999	2000	2001	2002	2003	2004	2005	LTD
PS1	0.130	0.575	1.230	1.800	1.460	0.800	0.530	0.370	0.170	0.080	0.030	7.190
SAT	0.050	0.195	0.130		-	-	-	-	-	-	-	0.400
N64	-	-	0.640	0.600	0.210	0.130	0.020	-	-	-	-	1.600
TTL	0.170	0.770	1.970	2.380	1.670	0.930	0.550	0.370	0.170	0.080	0.030	9.090
												
SDC	-	-	-	-	0.210	0.240	0.140	-	-	-	-	0.590
PS2	-	-	-	-	-	0.160	1.620	1.940	1.690	1.290	1.340	8.030
XBX	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	0.560	0.620	0.640	0.330	2.140
GCN	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	0.420	0.350	0.250	0.130	1.150
TTL 	-	-	-	-	0.210	0.400	1.760	2.930	2.650	2.170	1.800	11.920

Some Saturn numbers, cool!


Dreamcast sold 10.000 units in 2002, the LTD is 600.000 (from a PDF which included all sales for Europe / GfK via Screen Digest).


The N64 numbers are off, Screen Digest published some more recent reports in 2004, they use the same data that ELSPA used in 2005, therefore GfK/Chart-Track:

N64 UK:
1997: 610.000
1998: 500.000
1999: 240.000
2000: 130.000
2001: 20.000

Total: 1.500.000


And PS1 numbers from the same report (combined with ELSPA '05):

PS1 UK:
1995-1997: 1.930.000
1998: 1.850.000
1999: 1.430.000
2000: 800.000
2001: 530.000
2002: 370.000
2003: 170.000
2004: 80.000
2005: 30.000

Total: 7.190.000





Edit: We can calculate some more numbers from these and the ELSPA report (to get the modern data that ELSPA used in 2005):

ELSPA 1995 -- PS1+SAT: 170.000(PS1+SAT)

ELSPA 1996 -- PS1+SAT: 770.000(PS1+SAT)

ELSPA 1997 -- PS1+N64+SAT: 1.970.000 - 610.000(N64) = 1.360.000(PS1+SAT)

ELSPA 1998 -- PS1+N64+SAT: 2.380.000 - 1.850.000(PS1) - 500.000(N64) = 30.000 Saturn

 

[BKK]

Nice find! Do you have a link or a copy of that pdf? That seems to confirm 400k for Saturn. Such a bomb compared to Mega Drive, but UK still made up 40% of EU sales, which goes to show just how poorly it did in the rest of Europe.

 

[BKK]

Here's an extract of that report.

Edit: We can calculate some more numbers from these and the ELSPA report (to get the modern data that ELSPA used in 2005):

ELSPA 1996 -- PS1+SAT: 770.000(PS1+SAT)

ELSPA 1997 -- PS1+N64+SAT: 1.970.000 - 610.000(N64) = 1.360.000(PS1+SAT)

Those both match the 1998 Screen Digest report, so it seems that just N64 was adjusted later. That being the case we can deduce 1995 PS & SAT numbers as we have LTDs and every other year's sales. PS1: 125k, SAT: 45k. All figures add up now, so this should be pretty much complete through 2005;

UK Annual Hardware Unit Sales (millions)

	1995	1996	1997	1998	1999	2000	2001	2002	2003	2004	2005	LTD
PS1	0.125	0.575	1.230	1.850	1.430	0.800	0.530	0.370	0.170	0.080	0.030	7.190
SAT	0.045	0.195	0.130	0.030   -	-	-	-	-	-	-	0.400
N64	-	-	0.610	0.500	0.240	0.130	0.020	-	-	-	-	1.500
TTL	0.170	0.770	1.970	2.380	1.670	0.930	0.550	0.370	0.170	0.080	0.030	9.090
												
SDC	-	-	-	-	0.210	0.240	0.140	0.010	-	-	-	0.600
PS2	-	-	-	-	-	0.160	1.620	1.940	1.690	1.290	1.340	8.030
XBX	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	0.560	0.620	0.640	0.330	2.140
GCN	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	0.420	0.350	0.250	0.130	1.150
TTL 	-	-	-	-	0.210	0.400	1.760	2.930	2.650	2.170	1.800	11.920

Source: Chart-Track via ELSPA, Screen Digest

 

[Captain Smoker]

Here's an extract of that report.

Those both match the 1998 Screen Digest report, so it seems that just N64 was adjusted later. That being the case we can deduce 1995 PS & SAT numbers as we have LTDs and every other year's sales. PS1: 125k, SAT: 45k. All figures add up now, so this should be pretty much complete through 2005;

UK Annual Hardware Unit Sales (millions)

Source: Chart-Track via ELSPA, Screen Digest

Yeah, this should be right.


Going back to 16bit, combining all sources (plus this 1995 SD report: http://abload.de/img/olola4urz.jpg):

				1990	1991	1992	1993	1994	1995	1996	1997	1998		LTD

ELSPA '05 SG+SNES		?	?	1.450	1.130	0.890	0.460	0.340	0.160	0.100		?

MMC Report Genesis		?	0.196	0.997	0.674	?	?	?	?	?		?
MMC Report SNES			-	-	0.450	0.451	?	?	?	?	?		0.901
MMC Report Total		?	0.196	1.447	1.125	?	?	?	?	?		?

Screen Digest '95 Genesis	+	0.250	0.750	0.700	0.400	?	?	?	?		2.100
Screen Digest '95 SNES		-	-	0.500	0.350	0.200	?	?	?	?		1.050
Screen Digest '95 Total		+	0.250	1.250	1.050	0.600	?	?	?	?		3.150

Magazine Scans Genesis		0.060	0.255	?	?	?	?	?	?	?		0.315
Magazine Scans SNES		-	-	?	?	?	?	?	?	?		?
Magazine Scans Total		0.060	0.255	?	?	?	?	?	?	?		?

EA Internal Genesis		+	0.200	1.100	1.100	0.700	0.500	0.200	0.200	?		4.000
EA Internal SNES		-	-	0.300	0.500	0.500	0.250	0.100	0.050	?		1.700
EA Internal Total		+	0.200	1.400	1.600	1.200	0.750	0.300	0.250	?		5.700

ELSPA data and MMC report have the highest reliability, we should take these numbers as a taken, after that the Screen Digest data, they worked together with GfK, but numbers are old and revised, maybe we find some newer report.

Regarding the Mega Drive in 1990 and 1991, Screen Digest tells us that the MD had an installed base of 250.000 in 1991, minus MMC that's around 54.000 for 1990, this matches one of the magazine scans 60.000 units (but the 1991 numbers from the magazines are off).

Therefore, I think we can agree to the ballpark of 50.000 - 60.000 units for the Genesis in 1990 and maybe 190.000 - 210.000 units for 1991 (but the 0.196 from MMC should be right anyway).

EA Internal is way off most times.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Some Asian LTD sales (this data is from Famitsus old business site, you can't see it anymore, they posted these asian numbers alongside with proven USA/Germany/France numbers).



Korea (till end of '01):
PS1: 2.000.000
GBC: 1.625.000
N64: 520.000
PS2: 430.000
GBA: 80.000
GCN: 10.000
XBX: 3.000


Taiwan (till end of '01):
PS1: 965.000
GBC: 750.000
PS2: 300.000
N64: 165.000
GBA: 60.000
GCN: 3.000
XBX: 2.000


Hong-Kong (till end of '01):
PS1: 750.000
GBC: 416.000
PS2: 150.000
N64: 90.000
GBA: 50.000
GCN: 3.000
XBX: 1.000


Singapore (till end of '01):
GBC: 230.000
PS1: 100.000
N64: 42.000
GBA: 30.000
PS2: 18.000
GCN: 2.000
XBX: 1.000

 

[Celine]

Thanks to Benjamin Stevens kindness we now have the Famitsu article with shipment data for FY '96 (source: Famitsu Magazine Issue # 392, Page 8).
This is a very important article since we now have close to definitive totals for systems like Game Gear, Mega CD and 3DO (at least for the Panasonic and Sanyo models).
It also shows the official standing between SNES and Mega Drive until March 1996 (when Sega discontinued most of its systems in Japan but the Saturn).
At a quick glance the data should be:

[B]Nintendo[/B]
                                 95(03) 96(03) (Diff)
Famicom (Japan)                  18.87m 18.95m (+0.08m)
Super Famicom (Japan)            14.47m 16.25m (+1.78m)
Game Boy (Japan)                 11.16m 12.16m (+1.00m)
Virtual Boy (Japan)                      0.14m (+0.14m)
NES (International)              42.55m 42.55m (+0.00m)
Super NES (International)        22.06m 26.05m (+3.99m)
Game Boy (International)         32.35m 35.50m (+3.15m)
Virtual Boy (International)              0.63m (+0.63m)

[B]Sega[/B]

Mega Drive (Japan)                3.55m  3.58m (+0.03m)
Game Gear (Japan)                 1.60m  1.78m (+0.18m)
Mega CD (Japan)                   0.40m  0.40m (+0.00m)
Saturn (Japan)                    0.84m  2.50m (+1.76m)
Genesis (International)          22.91m 24.96m (+1.95m)
Game Gear (International)         8.65m  8.84m (+0.19m)
Mega CD (International)           1.82m  1.84m (+0.02m)
Saturn (International)                   0.90m (+0.90m)

[B]NEC[/B]

PC Engine Duo (include CD Rom^2)  1.90m  1.92m (+0.02m)
PC-FX (Japan)                     0.10m  0.22m (+0.12m)

[B]Sony[/B]

PlayStation (Japan)               0.85m  2.46m (+1.61m)
PlayStation (International)              2.00m (+2.00m)

[B]Matsushita/Panasonic[/B] (Japanese shipment include Sanyo’s 3DO)

3DO (Japan)                       0.47m  0.72m (+0.25m)
3DO (International)               0.30m  0.60m (+0.30m)


[B]Total shipment sales worldwide as March 1996:[/B]
NES: 61.50m (JP: 18.95m; INT: 42.55m)

Game Boy: 47.66m (JP: 12.16m; INT: 35.50m)
Game Gear: 10.62m (JP: 1.78m; INT: 8.84m)

SNES: 42.30m (JP: 16.25m; INT: 26.05m)
Mega Drive: 28.54m (JP: 3.58m; INT: 24.96m)

Mega CD: 2.24m (JP: 0.40m; INT: 1.84m)
PC Engine Duo (CDRom^2 included): 1.92m (JP: 1.92m; INT: -)

PlayStation: 4.46m (JP: 2.46m; INT: 2.00m)
Saturn: 3.40m (JP: 2.50m; INT: 0.90m)
3DO: 1.32m (JP: 0.72m; INT: 0.60m)
Virtual Boy: 0.77m (JP: 0.14m; INT: 0.63m)
PC-FX: 0.22m (JP: 0.22m; INT: -)


[B]Total shipment sales worldwide as March 1995:[/B]
NES: 61.42m (JP:18.87m; INT: 42.55m)

Game Boy: 43.51m (JP: 11.16m; INT: 32.35m)
Game Gear: 10.25m (JP: 1.60m; INT: 8.65m)

SNES: 36.52m (JP: 14.47m; INT: 22.06m)
Mega Drive: 26.46m (JP: 3.55m; INT: 22.91m)

Mega CD: 2.22m (JP: 0.40m; INT: 1.82m)
PC Engine Duo (CDRom^2 included): 1.90m (JP: 1.90m; INT: -)

PlayStation: 0.85m (JP: 0.85m; INT: -)
Saturn: 0.84m (JP: 0.84m; INT: -)
3DO: 0.77m (JP: 0.47m; INT: 0.30m)
PC-FX: 0.10m (JP: 0.10m; INT: -)

http://i.imgur.com/hXXa6DE.jpg

 

[Captain Smoker]

Very nice! This fills some gaps.


Is this where the famous 770.000 number for the Virtual Boy comes from?

I remember Aqua saying that the number is probably wrong (in an old thread), but it seems like she mixed up a few things, because her Lifetime Japan number matches the lifetime International number from Famitsu, NPD is also realistic if international sales are 630.000 units.

Internally, the Virtual Boy was a failure that Nintendo doesn't like to recognize. As a result, they didn't give me any information it.

However, I do have some data on the console.

That "770,000 shipments" figure you often see thrown around is wildly inaccurate. It's another example of that esoteric, vague data I was talking about.

I have some figures that I believe are much more accurate to the truth. However, these didn't come directly from Nintendo Co. Ltd.,'s internal archives, so I can't guarantee their accuracy.

VIRTUAL BOY

Lifetime worldwide shipments: 1.26 million

Shipments (Japan) - 0.63 million
Shipments (The Americas) - 0.56 million
Shipments (Other) - 0.07 million

Here is the sell-through information I have on Virtual Boy:

Japanese Sales, Lifetime: 630,000
USA Sales, Lifetime: 496,000

I can vouch that the 496K is the actual number NPD has in its archives for Virtual Boy LTD sales.

 

[Celine]

To note that Sega discontinued Mega CD and Game Gear in FY '96 so those figures can be considered final.

Very nice! This fills some gaps.


Is this where the famous 770.000 number for the Virtual Boy comes from?

I remember Aqua saying that the number is probably wrong (in an old thread), but it seems like she mixed up a few things, because her Lifetime Japan number matches the lifetime International number from Famitsu, NPD is also realistic if international sales are 630.000 units.

I still think Aqua number is correct and the final LTD.
IMO Nintendo dumped all their stock after March '96, Dreamcast-style.
You should ask her though

 

[terrisus]

IMO Nintendo dumped all their stock after March '96, Dreamcast-style.

That's when I got mine >.>
(Well, a couple of months after, when they were being clearanced :þ)

 

[Celine]

However, these didn't come directly from Nintendo Co. Ltd.,'s internal archives, so I can't guarantee their accuracy.

Wait, I think I skipped that part when she posted that beautiful thread.
Mmmh, now I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Some numbers from http://www.pong-story.com for the Magnavox Odyssey, the article is written by "Ralph Baer's associate and video game historian David Winter". He probably collected as much documents as he could, so this should be a good source.


Some quotes and numbers:

&#8226; Odyssey was first announced to the public in May 1972. Although a couple pre-production units were distributed in May for demonstration purposes, the production started in August. Nationwide advertising of this system on television and radio resulted in a real success: over 130,000 Odyssey and over 20,000 rifle packs were made in 1972.
&#8226; Another 200,000+ Odyssey and 50,000+ rifle packs sold between 1973 and 1975, bringing the total to 330,000+ Odyssey and 80,000+ rifle packs sold. The system was removed from the stores in late 1975 and replaced by two new, simpler models: the Odyssey 100 and Odyssey 200.
&#8226; Don't forget that almost 340,000+ Odyssey units were manufactured between 1972 and 1975. Only 130,000 were really made in 1972 (model 1TL200BLAK, RUN 1). More were made later in 1973 (model 1TL200BLAK, RUN 2). Specimens manufactured until early december 1972 have pink screens on the user manual. Those made until the end of december 1972 can either have pink or red screens.
&#8226; The very first export of the Magnavox Odyssey was made in Mexico around October 1972 following a very successfull market survey a few months before. It consisted of a US Odyssey with the top of the box relabeled with a very nice Magnavox logo and large Odisea words. The States game was replaced by the Volleyball add-on (a yellow sticker was even put on the side of the box). All paperwork was made in Mexico and printed in spanish. Less than 4,000 Odissea units were produced.
&#8226; In Germany, Odyssey was exported in two versions. It was first announced in late 1973 as being sold by ITT Schaub-Lorenz. Very few ITT units were made. [...] ITT still sold this version in 1974 and that about 10,000 Magnavox units were exported to Germany in 1974 and 1975. Click here to view both versions of the German Odyssee manuals.

http://www.pong-story.com/odyssey.htm


With Germany and Mexico we have around 344.000+ units according to David Winter.


Edit:
I think this is the "rifle pack", it's just a gun, no console I suppose:

 

[Celine]

I'm eager to see someone tackle MD/Genesis hardware. The wikipedia figure that keeps getting pushed seems sort of dubious.

The more "up to date" figure that I consider official is 30.75M (source: CESA White Paper).
My guess is that s LTD through March '96 because that's when Sega discontinued MD worldwide.

After reading the official Mega Drive total shipment as March '96, I think that Mega Drive LTD reported in the CESA White Paper report (30.75m) is until March '98 (when Sega finally discontinued the system outside Japan).

30.75-28.54= 2.21 million

That means Sega has shipped 2.21m after March '96 and since in FY '96 MD shipped just 1.98m and sales were surely declining I think it's likely it took them two fiscal year to ship that amount.

For comparison Nintendo shipped the following amount of SNESes between FY'96 and FY '98 (see the sharp contraction in sales after the next generation took off):
FY '96: 5.77m
FY '97: 3.30m
FY '98: 1.81m

SNES sales between FY'97 and FY'98:
3.30+1.81= 5.11 million

Mega Drive sales between FY'97 and FY'98: <- Educated guess on my part.
2.21 million

 

[BKK]

Thanks to Benjamin Stevens kindness we now have the Famitsu article with shipment data for FY '96 (source: Famitsu Magazine Issue # 392, Page 8).
This is a very important article since we now have close to definitive totals for systems like Game Gear, Mega CD and 3DO (at least for the Panasonic and Sanyo models).
It also shows the official standing between SNES and Mega Drive until March 1996 (when Sega discontinued most of its systems in Japan but the Saturn).
At a quick glance the data should be:

Awesome, thanks Celine & Benjamin!

3DO probably isn't the final number, according to Edge the following year's Famitsu report gave a LTD of 750k. The Edge article was from their Japan section, so omitted international shipments. This newsgroup post however does note domestic and international shipments from that Famitsu issue, although only mentions current gen consoles. Perhaps the original article contains 16-bit international shipments too.

Hi everybody! -=== So - 25.05.97 - 15:20 o'clock ===-

In Japan, 2.04 million Nintendo 64 units,
6.5 million PlayStation units, and 4.8 million
Saturn units have been shipped.

By the way, Game Boy/Game Boy Pocket is still alive and well here. Nintendo
shipped about three million units in the last fiscal year alone. This figure
is apparently the result of the huge success of Pocket Monster.

Also, let's take a look at the rest of the world, excluding the Japanese
figures in the total. Nintendo shipped 3.42 million units of the Nintendo
64 outside of Japan. Sony shipped 7 million units of the PlayStation
outside of Japan. And Sega shipped 2.76 million units of the Saturn
outside of Japan.

These figures are straight from the respective companies, except the
PlayStation figure. The PlayStation's domestic figure is provided by
Famitsu's own research. It is not the sell-through amount.

Going by the date it should probably be in this issue (Famitsu cover date is 2 weeks from published date).

It's a shame that they stopped giving a regional breakdown of international shipments, but at least we know that Asian shipments should be included. If we find the reports before and after the gave a regional breakdown then it should be possible to deduce whether Asian Mega Drive shipments were included with Europe or not.

No SMS figures but Mega/Sega CD shipments are very welcome, I have seen some ludicrous figures banded about for that before. However, he commonly used Game Gear figure of 11 million does turn out to be accurate. It should be noted that Majesco aquired the US rights and re-released the Game Gear in February 2001, even releasing a previously unreleased game for it.

No breakdown on PC Engine Duo / CD-ROM2 LTD, expected, but maybe it's broken down in a previous report after CDROM2 discontinuation. The 20k for 95/96 were certainly all Duos at any rate.

Nice to get the VB breakdown too.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Some more european sales.

By the mid-90's, Sega had in some parts of Europe become synonymous with "video games". Elsewhere, however, Nintendo
still enjoyed greater sales. Belgium newspaper Le Soir reported in September of 1993 video game console sales for the first half of the Year:

Game Boy: 318.616
Master System: 318.310
NES: 178.616
Mega Drive: 83.139
SNES: 50.131
Game Gear: 39.616
Atari Lynx: 20.227

The report concludes with a study conducted by GfK, in which video games were voted as the most desired toy among kids.

https://books.google.de/books?id=Db...page&q="master system" "units" "sega"&f=false (Book "The Rise and Fall of Sega")

I'm a bit confused, are these just for Belgium? Seems a bit high for 6 months in 1993, or are these LTDs?
The numbers are so exact, GfK numbers?

In the following years, the SMS was considered in several countries as a low budget alternative to its 16-bit
counterparts; by the mid-90's, it had gained a respectable costumer base. According to Sega France (in Kahn,
Alain; Richard, Oliveer, "Les Chroniques de Player One," 2010, Pika), the Master System sold 450,000 units in
1991, and 304,000 the following year. By 1993, the numbers had decreased drastically, with only 83,000 units
sold - presumably due to the growing popularity of the Mega Drive and Nintendo's Game Boy. And in 1996, Sega
finally retired the console in Europe - exactly one decade after its launch.

This doesn't match the numbers from Florent Gorges, who says his numbers are "GfK definitive" numbers or something like this (see this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=153740813&postcount=102)


Therefore, we have these numbers:

SMS	     Florent Gorges		"Sega France"	    Screen Digest '95		    BKK magazines

1987		    ???			    ???				+			27.000
1988 		 10.000			    ???				+			     +
1989 		 29.000			    ???				+		       108.000
1990 		140.000			    ???				+		       320.000
1991 		375.000			450.000			1.000.000		       600.000
1992 		235.000			304.000			  500.000			   ???
1993 		181.000			 83.000			  100.000			   ???

Total		970.000			837.000+		1.600.000		     1.055.000

Maybe Sega Frances numbers are shipped but that doesn't explain why 1993 Florent Gorges is higher than Sega France.



Also numbers for the Mega Drive:

Nevertheless, Sega France reported selling 162,000 Mega Drives in 1991; 475,000 units in 1992, 358,000 units in 1993, and

Preview ends here

 

[Celine]

Awesome, thanks Celine & Benjamin!

3DO probably isn't the final number, according to Edge the following year's Famitsu report gave a LTD of 750k. The Edge article was from their Japan section, so omitted international shipments.

Yeah, that's why I said "close to definitive"
Indeed 3DO was discontinued in 1996 so a small shipment was probably dispatched in FY '97.

Going by the date it should probably be in this issue (Famitsu cover date is 2 weeks from published date).

Mmmmh.

These figures are straight from the respective companies, except the
PlayStation figure. The PlayStation's domestic figure is provided by
Famitsu's own research. It is not the sell-through amount.

Ah ah ah must be because Sony counted asian sales instead of Japan-only.

 

[Phediuk]

Nice thread.

 

[BKK]

Ah ah ah must be because Sony counted asian sales instead of Japan-only.

That's what I originally thought, but the numbers perfectly match PS1 production shipments*, so they are actual official numbers including Asia. PS1 had only been on sale in Asia since December 1996 however.

*Figures for Japan include shipments to Asian countries and regions including South Korea.

 

[RadarScope1]

I have NPD data for all PS1, DC and N64 software up to 2003 (from back when the entire spreadsheet would leak here), which might as well be LTD for these consoles...but I'm guessing I'm not allowed to post it here.

Interesting tidbit: The N64 had 23 million sellers. The PS1... 69. Probably more if a few games kept on selling past 2003.

Oh and the DC? One.

That is super interesting about the million-sellers.

 

[DrWong]

Woop! Missed this thread. Subscribed!

 

[Celine]

And after that Majesco went on to sell about 2 million Genesis 3's, though those would not count in Sega of Japan's 30.75 million number of course.

Any reliable source that attest Majesco shipped 2 million Genesis 3?

 

[A Black Falcon]

Any reliable source that attest Majesco shipped 2 million Genesis 3?

I don't think so, but I have seen something saying they predicted 1.5 million sales, and something else saying that sales beat expectations. The two million number is an estimate.

There were some attempts at finding numbers back a few years ago on Sega-16:
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?9132-Genesis-real-sale-numbers/page3 (This thread helped lead to the "40 million" number which I think this newer data shows is too high)

But unfortunately http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showth...l-sale-numbers&p=312769&viewfull=1#post312769 these links are now dead. Maybe the sources could still be found, though; are some linked in Wikipedia now? But by reading the thread, the 1.5 million number is apparently what Majesco expected to sell.

Sam Pettus's SegaBase articles say "between 1 and 2 million" Genesis 3 systems sold, also, if that's worth anything, versus 1 million for the SNES that year (according to Pettus).


As for TecToy: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showth...l-sale-numbers&p=314894&viewfull=1#post314894

I've seen 2 and 3 million mentioned as estimates for TecToy MD sales; this varies in part because they've kept selling Genesis and Master System clones, albeit past the early '00s usually ones that don't play cartridges.

And on that note, is it worth something that a bunch of modern Genesis clones, both the TecToy and AtGames ones, are licensed by Sega and have built-in Genesis games, while no Nintendo clones are licensed?

 

[BKK]

That's what I originally thought, but the numbers perfectly match PS1 production shipments*, so they are actual official numbers including Asia. PS1 had only been on sale in Asia since December 1996 however.

*Figures for Japan include shipments to Asian countries and regions including South Korea.

I see what they've done now. Sony never gave March 31 1995 figures, and presumably never gave March 31 1996 figures by the time the above report was written. They gave calender year sales and May 15 1996 milestone update, upon which Famitsu calculated per day sales and used that as an estimate for March 31st sales. This is noted in points 5 and 6 in the scan.

They probably included the same note in the 96/97 report for 95/96 data which was also included in that report.

 

[Celine]

I don't think so

Yeah, I did a quick search and could not find anything acceptable.
Same for the fabled 1 million for the Nomad.
The idea a handheld by Sega which lasted 5 months before being discontinued and was distributed only in North America could ship 1 million is unbelievable to me.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, I did a quick search and could not find anything acceptable.
Same for the fabled 1 million for the Nomad.
The idea a handheld by Sega which lasted 5 months before being discontinued and was distributed only in North America could ship 1 million is unbelievable to me.

No, I would not put those two numbers into the same category. An article saying that Majesco expected to sell 1.5 million, then the suggestion that it sold better than estimates, is different from that 1 million number because at least there might be multiple sources for the Majesco number, and none are as obviously wrong as the source for the Nomad number is.

I mean, the ONLY source for that "1 million Nomads" number is that awful "top 10 worst selling consoles list" article from, who was it, gamepro or something? that cited numbers for every system, not all of which are at all accurate -- its Turbografx number is also way off, for example, though this thread has some bad Turbografx numbers in it too as I pointed out on page 2 (last part of the post; never got a response to that). There are a bunch of reasons to believe that the person writing that article with the Nomad number in it didn't know what the actual sales numbers were for too many systems on that list and probably just made stuff up. If there was another source for Nomad sales being at 1 million maybe I'd believe it, but with THAT article being the only one, I won't.

In comparison, none of the "1 to 2 million Majesco systems sold" sources are definitely wrong as far as the numbers go, not like the Nomad source is. I believe the Majesco numbers I mentioned in the last post, 1 to 2 million is quite reasonable and fits well with how popular the Genesis 3 was, but do not believe that the Nomad sold anywhere near a million systems. Of course it is possible that the Nomad sold a million, I'm sure it sold decently well in '95, but I'd want better proof than an article that I question.

 

[Celine]

No, I would not put those two numbers into the same category. An article saying that Majesco expected to sell 1.5 million, then the suggestion that it sold better than estimates, is different from that 1 million number because at least there might be multiple sources for the Majesco number, and none are as obviously wrong as the source for the Nomad number is.

Well yeah, there is basically nothing for 32X.
What article states Genesis 3 beat Majesco expectation?

 

[A Black Falcon]

Well yeah, there is basically nothing for 32X.

Well, we have a "665,000" number which I think is sourced, but that's probably just for holiday season '94 or something like that, with no guesses for sales after that... so most people seem to just assume that that was the final sales number. It actually could be that, but there's no proof.

What article states Genesis 3 beat Majesco expectation?

I'll try to find it.

 

[Celine]

Whoops, meant Nomad.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Numbers for the 3DO by SD 1995 report, note that numbers are probably outdated, but it's a starting point.

Amiga LTD sales for Germany, as of 31.12.1993
Source: Marketing Division Commodore Frankfurt

[B]System			      LTD		Launch[/B]

Amiga CD32		   25.000		01.09.1993
Amiga CDTV		   25.800		01.03.1991
Amiga 500		1.081.000		01.10.1987
Amiga 500+		   79.500		01.12.1991
Amiga 600		  193.000		01.03.1992
Amiga 1000		   27.500		01.09.1985
Amiga 1200		   95.500		01.10.1992
Amiga 2000		  124.500		01.03.1987
Amiga 3000		    8.300		01.06.1990
Amiga 4000/030		    7.500		01.04.1993
Amiga 4000/040		    3.800		01.10.1992
C 128			  284.300		01.01.1985
C 16/116		  286.500		01.06.1984
C 64			3.050.000		01.08.1982

 

[Celine]

And thus PC Land (actually Computer Land) was born

Going by the date it should probably be in this issue (Famitsu cover date is 2 weeks from published date).

The good news is I've found the writer of that very old post, the bad news is that he doesn't own the mag.

 

[BKK]

And thus PC Land (actually Computer Land) was born


The good news is I've found the writer of that very old post, the bad news is that he doesn't own the mag.

Oh, good investigation! That really was an old post Anyway, I'll attempt to get it myself if it comes up for auction unless anyone else here has it. So I'd appreciate it if no-one else bids on it for the purposes of this thread, but if someone does notice it for sale do PM me.

I've received a copy of CTW (predecessor to MCV) today after it being lost in the post for six months. These literally never come up (the only issue for sale I've ever come about), so that was a nice surprise. Will post Segadomination UK chart along with some other sales age articles tomorrow.

 

[BKK]

Numbers for the 3DO by SD 1995 report, note that numbers are probably outdated, but it's a starting point.

Amiga LTD sales for Germany, as of 31.12.1993
Source: Marketing Division Commodore Frankfurt

[B]System			      LTD		Launch[/B]

Amiga CD32		   25.000		01.09.1993
Amiga CDTV		   25.800		01.03.1991
Amiga 500		1.081.000		01.10.1987
Amiga 500+		   79.500		01.12.1991
Amiga 600		  193.000		01.03.1992
Amiga 1000		   27.500		01.09.1985
Amiga 1200		   95.500		01.10.1992
Amiga 2000		  124.500		01.03.1987
Amiga 3000		    8.300		01.06.1990
Amiga 4000/030		    7.500		01.04.1993
Amiga 4000/040		    3.800		01.10.1992
C 128			  284.300		01.01.1985
C 16/116		  286.500		01.06.1984
C 64			3.050.000		01.08.1982

I've been meaning to make a Commodore post. Maybe you've seen this page before. I have some contemporary Commodore UK results which don't match the later "Amiga Format Annual 1993" figures. Here's an interesting article which attempts to calculate the total number of C64s from serial numbers by using the "German Tank Problem" formula. I've worked out the Sega serial number format (turns out I'm not the first), so a similar thing could be done for Sega models. Same thing can be done for other manufacturers if the serial number format can be worked out.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Oh, good investigation! That really was an old post Anyway, I'll attempt to get it myself if it comes up for auction unless anyone else here has it. So I'd appreciate it if no-one else bids on it for the purposes of this thread, but if someone does notice it for sale do PM me.

I've received a copy of CTW (predecessor to MCV) today after it being lost in the post for six months. These literally never come up (the only issue for sale I've ever come about), so that was a nice surprise. Will post Segadomination UK chart along with some other sales age articles tomorrow.

Cool, looking forward to it.

I've been meaning to make a Commodore post. Maybe you've seen this page before. I have some contemporary Commodore UK results which don't match the later "Amiga Format Annual 1993" figures. Here's an interesting article which attempts to calculate the total number of C64s from serial numbers by using the "German Tank Problem" formula. I've worked out the Sega serial number format (turns out I'm not the first), so a similar thing could be done for Sega models. Same thing can be done for other manufacturers if the serial number format can be worked out.

That's an interesting approach, but you need a lot of serial numbers for something like this.






Some numbers for the Philips CD-i from a 1997 IDATE report, they use 1997 Screen Digest data. link

While these numbers combine N64, SS, PS1 and CD-i, we know that the CD-i already launched in 1992 (in EU) and 1991 (in the US), the other systems launched in 1995, so 1991-1994 are just CD-i numbers.

CD-i		UK		Germany		France		Spain		USA

1991		-		-		-		-		+
1992		10.000		2.000		8.000		-		80.000
1993		65.000		29.000		52.000		21.000		135.000
1994		95.000		64.000		66.000		33.000		335.000

LTD		170.000		95.000		126.000		54.000		550.000

So it almost hit the million in 1994, the total LTD is 995.000 units.


We also know that SS+PS1 sold 170.000 units in the UK in 1995 thanks to ELSPA.

Therefore, CD-i active installed base should've been 470.000-170.000 = 237.000 units, which leads to sales of 67.000 units in 1995.

Same for the year 1996, N64+SS+PS1 installed base was 940.000 units. 1.012.000-940.000 = 72.000 units active installed base for the CD-i.


But this last calculation is probably (wildly) inaccurate because ELSPA data is newer than 1997 SD data. The installed base of the CD-i also shrunk in 1997, but Screen Digest used to do this with their "active installed base"-numbers if a system fades away from the market.

 

[Celine]

@BKK

Any reason why you haven't updated the 3DO international sales?

Oh, good investigation! That really was an old post

You can imagine his surprise ah ah ah.

 

[BKK]

@BKK

Any reason why you haven't updated the 3DO international sales?

Done now.

 

[terrisus]

I need to do an image backup of all the images in this thread to my website or something, just so nothing is lost due to an imagehost going down or something.
I know I keep saying it, but, there are so many great things in this thread.

 

[Celine]

Could someone translate this article (the data and what it refer to)?

Famitsu 353:

http://i.imgur.com/jvs4WTg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VdP60FC.jpg

 

[BKK]

Super Famicom
Game Boy
Playstation
Saturn
Mega Drive
Game Gear
PC-FX
PC Engine
Neo Geo CD
3DO

Appears to be shipments (in ten thousands) through March 1995.