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Reuters gives analyst estimations of Nintendo FY results (official release tomorrow)

Cygnus X-1

Member
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/net-us-nintendo-idUSBRE83O15L20120425

Reuters said:
(Reuters) - In 2006 Nintendo took video gaming out of the kids' room and into the living room, as its hit Wii created a new niche as the console the whole family could share.

But with that Wii boom waning, the successor being prepared by the creator of Super Mario looks like a losing proposition as Apple Inc and other smartphone and tablet makers take gaming to the bathroom, the commuter bus and back to the bedroom.

Nintendo will report on Thursday its first ever operating loss, after estimating a 45 billion yen deficit for the business year just ended.

"They have been beaten by smartphones and tablets, in particular, for consumers spending and, more importantly, time," said David Gibson, an analyst for Macquarie in Tokyo.

The company, which began in 1889 making playing cards in the back streets of Kyoto, has been hammered by a precipitous drop-off in sales of its Wii, DS handheld console and its new 3DS version.

A year ago Nintendo expected to sell 13 million Wii consoles, 16 million 3DS handhelds and 11 million DS machines in the financial year. In January it slashed its sales target for all three, lopping 3 million off its Wii target, 2 million off 3DS and halving its prediction for the DS.

Promising to return his company to profit this business term, Nintendo's boss, Satoru Iwata, blamed dismal sales on a strong yen and economic gloom in Europe. No strategic rethink or change to plans for the new Wii console, the Wii U, was necessary, he insisted.

Yet what Nintendo faces is a fundamental shift in gaming habits that analyst argue may require it to shrink its hardware business and instead chase profits for Super Mario and other game titles on devices built by other firms.

Its emerging foe is Apple, already the nemesis of flagging Japanese titan Sony Corp, whose seamless go-anywhere devices - the iPhone, iPad and rumored plans for a games controller and "iTV" - are positioning it to grab swathes of the gaming market where Nintendo once held sway.

In a report this month, Macquarie's Gibson pointed to a recent survey by mobile gaming site MocoSpace. It asked 15,000 gamers where they gamed; 53 percent said they played in bed, 41 percent in the living room, 72 percent commuting and 5 percent on the toilet.

Yet a game started on a Wii can't be continued on a DS on the way to work or school. The Wii U, slated to go on sale in time for the year-end shopping season, does not address that convergence hurdle.

Nintendo will have to sell the new console for as much as $350 to break even, estimates Nanako Imazu, an analyst for CLSA in Tokyo. That is $100 more than it charged for the Wii in 2006 and would outstrip both the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360, which can be picked up for less than $300.

BACK IN THE BLACK

Imazu said Nintendo, which earns about four-fifths of its revenue overseas, should get a boost this business term from a weaker yen and the launch of popular game titles including Mario Party 8 and the latest installment of Dragon Quest from Square Enix.

That should result in an operating profit of around 40 billion yen for the 12 months to March 31 - according to the average estimate of 20 analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters I/B/E/S - back into the black, although well below the earning power it displayed during the Wii boom.

Nintendo will also likely have a year's grace to woo core gamers to the Wii U, say analysts, before Sony's anticipated launch of its PlayStation 4 and Microsoft's updated Xbox at the end of 2013. Nintendo, nonetheless, will still have to contend with the rising flood of smartphones and iPhones.

"Nintendo has to deal with the change and let Mario games be played on non-Nintendo devices," said Imazu. "I think it will take at least couple of years to see that."

Any drastic strategy shift that would dispatch the Mario brothers into the realm of Android and Apple's iOS operating system would likely require a change at the top of Nintendo, said Macquarie's Gibson. And that likely won't happen for a couple of years until the Wii U is shown to be a clear failure, he added.

Unlike money-losing Sony, where time is running out to counter the pounding it's getting from Apple and South Korea's Samsung Electronics, Nintendo, sitting on oodles of cash it made selling the Wii - about $14 billion - at least has time to mull its choices.

"With its 8,000 yen a share in cash, it can afford to still make a bet that its hardware will sell," said Gibson.

($1 = 81.1500 Japanese yen)

The interesting thing here sure are the earning estimations of 40 billion yen for next year, practically absorbing all the losses for this year - estimated to 45 billion yen now (and not 65 billion yen. I wonder if this is a typo or a real decrease of losses).

And the 350$ estimation of Wii U price is just crap if you ask me. And Mario on smartphones in the future is the same old pointless crap that will never happen.
 
Damn, they mad
Any drastic strategy shift that would dispatch the Mario brothers into the realm of Android and Apple's iOS operating system would likely require a change at the top of Nintendo, said Macquarie's Gibson. And that likely won't happen for a couple of years until the Wii U is shown to be a clear failure, he added.
 

GDGF

Soothsayer
They want Mario on Android and IOS?

Hahahhahahhahahahhahh!

(ha)

NAaS5.png
 

Cygnus X-1

Member
The fact that they wrote "Mario Party 8" and not Mario Party 9 as it should have been worries me. Maybe the 45 billions yen is a typo. What a bunch of idiots.
 

tuffy

Member
Yet what Nintendo faces is a fundamental shift in gaming habits that analyst argue may require it to shrink its hardware business and instead chase profits for Super Mario and other game titles on devices built by other firms.
This is the exact opposite of what Nintendo should do.
 
"Nintendo has to deal with the change and let Mario games be played on non-Nintendo devices,"

Nintendo's repeatedly refuted this, repeatedly said they will not do it.

Negative. Nada. No.
They're selling more 3DS's then they did DS's right now, and that's with the intervention of smartphones. Why on earth do they need to lose profits by putting Mario on an awfully controlled device?
 

Cygnus X-1

Member
well I cannot believe anything from that report after reading $350 for WiiU

I just posted it for the estimation of 40 billion yen profits foresaw for next year - this is totally new - and the supposed decrease of losses from 65 to 45 billion yens. They are the only valuable information here.
 
Really growing tired of hearing analysts tell Nintendo to put their IP on tablets and phones. The day that happens, I quit gaming forever.

The expanded market Nintendo opened up was stolen by Apple but I think Apple is going to start shedding users as they grow tired of the style of games on their devices and yearn for the next new thing.

I hope this news doesn't spell doom for iwata.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
I am so sick of hearing about how Nintendo needs to bow down to Apple, leave the console business and start making casual bullshit games for iOS. It's like every single journalist or analyst is buying into this garbage. It's even worse when the contents of their articles/analysis reveal that they barely even know what they are talking about and are just writing a hit-piece based off the hot talking points.

Why does it annoy me? Because it trickles down to the average uninformed person and shapes their opinion, which they ignorantly go on about in everyday conversations and I can't help but shake my head.
 
I just posted it for the estimation of 40 billion yen profits foresaw for next year - this is totally new - and the supposed decrease of losses from 65 to 45 billion yens. They are the only valuable information here.

There is no valuable information here, it's just analysts' estimations, which are fairly pointless for a company like Nintendo that has a huge product coming this FY that analysts will have no real knowledge of at this point.

They don't know anything that we don't know right now, so their estimations are a total crapshoot.

Edit-And the 45 billion isn't a decrease, that's the operating loss that Nintendo forecasted in January. 65 billion is the net loss
 

Goodlife

Member
Seriously, why is this shit allowed to be reported.
The journalists should be telling these analysts to f##k off and get their facts straight. Really starting to annoy me.
 

Effect

Member
This is the exact opposite of what Nintendo should do.

It's like they are purposefully ignoring all the money Nintendo has and is still making. Ignoring that the 3DS is selling better then the DS did. Ignoring the sales figures of it's games. Crazy. If it isn't clear to people that they have an agenda it should be now.
 

Penguin

Member
Seriously, why is this shit allowed to be reported.
The journalists should be telling these analysts to f##k off and get their facts straight. Really starting to annoy me.

It plays to the story that everyone wants to believe.

I'm sure there's probably some way to find it, but google is only giving me names/rankings.

What were the top grossing apps last year and how much did they make?
 

Derrick01

Banned
More ios whoring from the media. Apple doesn't even have to spend money on marketing since the media and these "analysts" will do it for them.

The 3DS is doing fine but I am worried about how much that gimmick controller on the WiiU will jack the price up. That pointless 3D on the 3DS was the reason they had to price it so high to start with and why it failed before the price drop.
 
I expect the Wii U to come in at $300-400. I don't expect less than $400 for the 720/PS4.

I could see Microsoft doing some kind of jackass scheme where they sell you the 720 without a controller, hard drive, or cables for $300 or something so that they give their customers more of that awesome "choice" they're known for.
 
When journalists and analysts finally realise that wii music brought in more revenue than any mobile game ever then i'll listen to them
 

USC-fan

Banned
It's like they are purposefully ignoring all the money Nintendo has and is still making. Ignoring that the 3DS is selling better then the DS did. Ignoring the sales figures of it's games. Crazy. If it isn't clear to people that they have an agenda it should be now.

What agenda?
 
I could see a $350 break even quite possible for wii u, though i'm getting more and more convinced it'll be selling at $300

This. I think Nintendo will go for $300. Initially when revealed I thought Nintendo would go for $350 but I think 3DS knocked them back to reality a bit more. I'm still not entirely sure though. It depends on exactly how much Nintendo is putting in it.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Yeah, I don't see $350 for the basic Wii-U set as a shock at all.

At the E3 unveiling, the first thing they said in interviews was that it was not going to be cheap, people should not expect a Wii pricing scenario again.
 
With absolutely no meaningful knowledge about the Wii U and its lineup available, the analysts' predictions and advice are utterly useless.

The sooner people realise that iOS and dedicated handhelds can both be successful and profitable while coexisting, the sooner the media can stop with its garbage about Mario on iOS making more money than the many millions of Mario games sold on dedicated hardware.
 

Raist

Banned
They're selling more 3DS's then they did DS's right now, and that's with the intervention of smartphones. Why on earth do they need to lose profits by putting Mario on an awfully controlled device?

They're probably not making as much money as they did with the DS on each unit sold. Very unlikely after such an early and huge price cut.
Wii and DS sales are also extremely low now. The Wii's especially has been for quite a while.
 

TheNatural

My Member!
Nintendo used to be about value. Go look back at the E3 when Gamecube was unveiled and see what they had to say then versus what they're doing now.

They're adding features that have a lot of cost to them that aren't making a lot of noise. Because motion gaming took off, doesn't mean 3D will, and doesn't mean tablet gaming will. Especially when there's a cost-reward problem with how much money is being invested in these things.

Everyone says iOS and Android games should be developed, and laughs at this, but I actually think Nintendo will within two years. But not in the way people think. Nintendo has already peaked with the Virtual Console on Wii and people aren't going to accept buying those games again on Wii U, so Nintendo is definitely going to have some type of transfer system.

They're starting to put NES games on the 3DS for double dipping, so after this dies down in about a year or so, I honestly think they'll start taking very old NES games and putting them on mobile platforms.

What's to lose? These games, like Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong, Metroid, Ice Climbers, etc are practically public domain at this point. The novelty of the Virtual Console has long since wore off with the Wii, and they've cashed in as much as they're going to there with these old games, especially transferring the games over to Wii U in some way.

Just announcing "mobile development" would jump their stock and they won't have to provide anything meaningful. Simple, cheap, emulated ports of old NES games would give them a good amount of money while making it seem to investors like they're moving mobile.
 

Azure J

Member
I am so sick of hearing about how Nintendo needs to bow down to Apple, leave the console business and start making casual bullshit games for iOS. It's like every single journalist or analyst is buying into this garbage. It's even worse when the contents of their articles/analysis reveal that they barely even know what they are talking about and are just writing a hit-piece based off the hot talking points.

Why does it annoy me? Because it trickles down to the average uninformed person and shapes their opinion, which they ignorantly go on about in everyday conversations and I can't help buy shake my head.

Pretty much, especially with regards to your conclusion.
 
Isnt it funny how the 3DS turnaround goes ignored when it doesnt suit the agenda.

Well the pricedrop is probably a large reason why they weren't in the black this year, so from an analysts point of view, the 3DS isn't doing that strongly. It sales are not in the same realm as the iPhone's anyways, which is what it is going to have to live up to not have strong criticism (which is ridiculous in my opinion).
 

StevieP

Banned
Nintendo used to be about value. Go look back at the E3 when Gamecube was unveiled and see what they had to say then versus what they're doing now.

They're adding features that have a lot of cost to them that aren't making a lot of noise. Because motion gaming took off, doesn't mean 3D will, and doesn't mean tablet gaming will. Especially when there's a cost-reward problem with how much money is being invested in these things.

Everyone says iOS and Android games should be developed, and laughs at this, but I actually think Nintendo will within two years. But not in the way people think. Nintendo has already peaked with the Virtual Console on Wii and people aren't going to accept buying those games again on Wii U, so Nintendo is definitely going to have some type of transfer system.

They're starting to put NES games on the 3DS for double dipping, so after this dies down in about a year or so, I honestly think they'll start taking very old NES games and putting them on mobile platforms.

What's to lose? These games, like Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong, Metroid, Ice Climbers, etc are practically public domain at this point. The novelty of the Virtual Console has long since wore off with the Wii, and they've cashed in as much as they're going to there with these old games, especially transferring the games over to Wii U in some way.

Just announcing "mobile development" would jump their stock and they won't have to provide anything meaningful. Simple, cheap, emulated ports of old NES games would give them a good amount of money while making it seem to investors like they're moving mobile.

When is Apple releasing the iPhone controller?

Derrick01 said:
The 3DS is doing fine but I am worried about how much that gimmick controller on the WiiU will jack the price up.

Ah, the word gimmick again. It brings back warm memories of 2005.
 

Cygnus X-1

Member
I could see a $350 break even quite possible for wii u, though i'm getting more and more convinced it'll be selling at $300

After the experience they had with the 3DS? Not a chance. Wii U will sell at a max. launch price of 300$. Period. Nintendo if necessary will downgrade the hardware further, but they'll never set up such a price.
 

liger05

Member
Nintendo used to be about value. Go look back at the E3 when Gamecube was unveiled and see what they had to say then versus what they're doing now.

They're adding features that have a lot of cost to them that aren't making a lot of noise. Because motion gaming took off, doesn't mean 3D will, and doesn't mean tablet gaming will. Especially when there's a cost-reward problem with how much money is being invested in these things.

Everyone says iOS and Android games should be developed, and laughs at this, but I actually think Nintendo will within two years. But not in the way people think. Nintendo has already peaked with the Virtual Console on Wii and people aren't going to accept buying those games again on Wii U, so Nintendo is definitely going to have some type of transfer system.

They're starting to put NES games on the 3DS for double dipping, so after this dies down in about a year or so, I honestly think they'll start taking very old NES games and putting them on mobile platforms.

What's to lose? These games, like Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong, Metroid, Ice Climbers, etc are practically public domain at this point. The novelty of the Virtual Console has long since wore off with the Wii, and they've cashed in as much as they're going to there with these old games, especially transferring the games over to Wii U in some way.

Just announcing "mobile development" would jump their stock and they won't have to provide anything meaningful. Simple, cheap, emulated ports of old NES games would give them a good amount of money while making it seem to investors like they're moving mobile.

If they did go down that route then once there in there is no coming out. People would end up expecting to see the premium IP's on IOS/Android.

Nintendo should stay well clear of that market!!
 
Isnt it funny how the 3DS turnaround goes ignored when it doesnt suit the agenda.


If BMW released the new M3 at $60,000~ and it sold like shit, then cut the price by 33%~ would it be any surprise that it was selling well?

I'm not really trying to get into the whole anti/pro-Nintendo thing with this comment, I just don't get why the 3DS's "success" should be lauded when it required dire action to achieve those numbers. Sure it's selling now after its price point was completely reworked, but it was a failure at $250.

I don't think it can really be used by either side as any sort of realistic argument for Nintendo's current well-being or lack thereof.
 

AzaK

Member
Isnt it funny how the 3DS turnaround goes ignored when it doesnt suit the agenda.

Yeah I noticed that. And also "the next Wii console, the Wii U". There's something ominous about the thinking there. It's the whole "it's just a new Wii" thing.
 
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