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[Monk]

I guess you guys still don't get it.... I'm talking about not being able to run away while reloading and such.

you do realise that the Rev has an analog controller attatchment right?

 

[_PsiFire_]

I don't know what kind of magical gyros you think Nintendo is using, but tilting is exactly how the controller will manipulate the look function. It would be rediculous to expect anything else with the gyro at the same time.

Besides, it's missing a whole lot more than a couple of buttons. In the case of game like Halo 2, it's like 4 or 5.

I think, in regards to FPS's, people are forgetting there's also 3D-Space movement and yaw control..

You could use the pitch to look and turn.. Yaw left/right for previous/next weapons.. 3D-Space push/pull for Zoom in and out.. 3D-Space up/down for jump and duck.. That gets a WHOLE bunch of controls done and you still have 8 button points (Z1, Z2, A, B, D-Pad).

 

[Shogmaster]

It.is.different.fecking.technology!!!

And what's the name for this magical new technology that no one has used before? :lol

you do realise that the Rev has an analog controller attatchment right?

And you do realise that you need the gyro for look fuction, right? If you want to run in a blind WASD only, then good luck with that.

 

[jgkspsx]

Also, THERE IS NO GYRO. GET IT THROUGH YER HEADS. It's a motion-tracking system with ultrasonic or IR sensitivity.

 

[MutFox]

quick thought, how are we supposed to press the d-pad and the big A button at the same time?

Ummm... You're not...

Kind of like in a FPS on a Console, when you're aiming and moving, you can't really touch the face buttons.

But that problem has been solved with the rev controller anyways.

 

[Shogmaster]

Also, THERE IS NO GYRO. GET IT THROUGH YER HEADS. It's a motion-tracking system with ultrasonic or IR sensitivity.

Oh man, I would LOVE to hear about how this new magical technology works! *pulls up a comfy chair and binks eyes repeatedly*

 

[jgkspsx]

And what's the name for this magical new technology that no one has used before? :lol

No one, hm?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...g_3/103-7876727-8913400?v=glance&s=videogames
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002JZOIM/103-7876727-8913400?v=glance
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...g_2/103-7876727-8913400?v=glance&s=videogames
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...g_1/103-7876727-8913400?v=glance&s=videogames

 

[Diffense]

quick thought, how are we supposed to press the d-pad and the big A button at the same time?

How do you press the left d-pad and the left analog stick at the same time on a dual shock?

I don't think you are supposed to press them at the same time. It will be kind of difficult for the thumb to manipulate them both in either orientation of the remote.

 

[Shogmaster]

No one, hm?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...g_3/103-7876727-8913400?v=glance&s=videogames
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002JZOIM/103-7876727-8913400?v=glance
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...g_2/103-7876727-8913400?v=glance&s=videogames
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...g_1/103-7876727-8913400?v=glance&s=videogames

Sorry. Rev controller is not the eye toy. Try again.

 

[Papi]

Hm. How does it detect 3D movement with only 2 sensors?

 

[xabre]

And what's the name for this magical new technology that no one has used before? :lol

I dunno, Zaphod summed up how it works.

All I know is that the point function allows for up, down, left, right, back and forward movement and there is also a sensor that detects tilt and rotate.

 

[jgkspsx]

Sorry. Rev controller is not the eye toy. Try again.

Uh... yeah.

I do hope Nintendo has VERY carefully checked XaViX's patents, though I'm sure they have. I wonder if they paid them off.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

Tilt Sensitive. Controller can be rotated or rolled from side-to-side.

Thats just a function of the 6 direction gyro.

 

[JJConrad]

Look at the picture I made. I tried to fit all the essential functions that require immediate reach, and I still failed to map things like reload ammo. You could sacrifice the look function for the moment you are using the hold then choose method, but the fact is that you are going to lacking some buttons for modern shooters like Halo 2 that already uses hold down menthod to add additional use for buttons X and Y.

Even before going into the merits of the gyro implimentation (the responsiveness and precision), the rev controller is already lacking buttons to keep up with the modern games.

Don't be silly. Halo 2 was built around the Xbox's controller and uses every button on it. They didn't need to do it that way, but they did it because it was there. It's not like Halo2 has the greatest control scheme ever invented. You don't need more buttons.

There are trade-offs and advantages. One advantage for FPS is that you're left thumb will be free to press other buttons and aim at the same time. If a developer wanted to include a dual-remote control scheme, then both thumbs would be free.

Just don't a weak arguement because a game that is never going to be on the system to begin with, can't be reproduced exactly to a specific, custom configuration.

 

[Scrow]

Thats just a function of the 6 direction gyro.

no

left, right, up, down, back, forward, tilt left, tilt right

the tilting is seperate from the 3d movement. 3d movement goes by those sensors. tilting goes by a gyro.

 

[Speevy]

Is there a video of all those tech demos people played?

 

[Warm Machine]

Don't be silly. Halo 2 was built around the Xbox's controller and uses every button on it. They didn't need to do it that way, but they did it because it was there. It's not like Halo2 has the greatest control scheme ever invented. You don't need more buttons.

There are trade-offs and advantages. One advantage for FPS is that you're left thumb will be free to press other buttons and aim at the same time. If a developer wanted to include a dual-remote control scheme, then both thumbs would be free.

Just don't a weak arguement because a game that is never going to be on the system to begin with, can't be reproduced exactly to a specific, custom configuration.

Halo 2 isn't the only game that uses that system. Count how many FPS games are out there that use something similar. Then you can say, well FPS games suck and they are a dead genre and this is a REVOLUTION!

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

no

left, right, up, down, back, forward, tilt left, tilt right

Oh well then, I guess nintendo needs a noble prize for discovering a new dimension.

The TILT dimension.

 

[Zaphod]

Oh man, I would LOVE to hear about how this new magical technology works! *pulls up a comfy chair and binks eyes repeatedly*

One word accelerometer.

 

[Deleted member 284]

Oh man, I would LOVE to hear about how this new magical technology works! *pulls up a comfy chair and binks eyes repeatedly*

Nintendo has already said they will not go in depth in how the tech works. And if you think Nintendo will release a controller solution that won't be profitable (ie the $100 mouse already discussed) or won't be provide EXCEPTIONAL control, then keep fighting the good fight good soldier.

 

[effzee]

This is hilarious, all these people going Nintendo is dead because the new controller is different OMG isn't that what they were saying? new way of playing the games? Everyone would be bashing Nintendo right now if the controller was more like a traditional controller for not being innovative enough. I honestly think its retarted if you really expected Big N to just give u a slight variation of the old controllers when they clearly stated they were trying to change gaming.

Why not actually wait till you see how the controller is applied to different genres before barking of your final decision of buying the system? the demos that were shown clearly show very interesting ways the controller can be used, give it some time and see how Nintendo applies everything to real games, why make such hasty judgements? Maybe god forbid they can actually improve certain genres people are worried about playing with this new controller, you people are running at the first sight of change without even taking a chance to see if its change for the bad or good.

IMO i'm interested by the idea of these new game mechanics rev will provide, i'm already sold on PS3, which will provide a different experience, but now i'm really excited to see what Nintendo can provide as an alternative. For the future, i'm hoping for some faster paced games which don't require tons of buttons.

 

[teiresias]

The tilting functionality is simple to implement, I've done work with the necessary sensors in autonomous aircraft and the like.

I'm more interested how it detects where you're pointing the thing at on the TV screen.

 

[Shogmaster]

One word accelerometer.

That's a not a new magical technology that will help the way you think. Accelerometer only works well for short burst movements. You don't want to use them for look function. Accelerometer will be used for swinging, tapping, pushing kind of action motions.

 

[Drek]

Sweet, I was worried that they wouldn't include the analog stick + 2 triggers deally with the base system. That makes it a lot better.

This is a big risk for Nintendo, but if it pays off they'll really seperate themselves from the hardcore gamer crowd that MS and Sony fight over and move to the more casual gamers, which is where the real money is anyways. It could pay off big, it could bite them in the ass, but honeslty, if you're Nintendo its time to shit or get off the pot. Nice to see them making a strong, assertive move. Now they just need to line the software up.

As for complaints about the control scheme, well, here's how I'd do a FPS:
movement: analog stick
view: remote pointer sensor
fire1: B trigger
Fire2: Z1 on analog
Change weapon: left/right on D pad
reload: up on dpad
crouch: down on D pad
A: Jump
Then I use Z2 like an alt for all the remote buttons that I need.
Z2+dpad left/right: change items (grenades?)
Z2+moving remote: various melee swings
Z2+A: big jump
Z2+analog: dives, rolls, other evasion moves.
Still have the Z2+ up and down on dpad, as well as Z2+B to map. A Z2+Z1 or B triggers as a alt weapon fire would be real cool.

Using multi-button presses sucks, but holding a button plus hitting just one other button or making a larger gesture (moving a stick or a remote) is much easier and intuative. If companies use the capabilities of this control scheme appropriately this could be REALLY fun. Its all about people taking advantage of it though.

 

[TheDuce22]

Also, THERE IS NO GYRO. GET IT THROUGH YER HEADS. It's a motion-tracking system with ultrasonic or IR sensitivity.

So in order to play certian games you need to sit at a certian distance and directly in front of the TV? If you can find a place to put the IR tracking device. That isnt possible for alot of people. This thing is sounding more and more like a novelty, sure its unique but it just makes everything more difficult and clumsy.

 

[xabre]

Oh well then, I guess nintendo needs a noble prize for discovering a new dimension.

The TILT dimension.

Yeah ha, aren't we witty. Tell me witty one, since there's a gyro-esque sensor for 3D directional control and there's this other sensor that detects rotate and revolve as well, explain what the directional control functions have to do with the tilt and rotate control functions? You may as well be saying both A and B buttons are the same button, now whose fucking with the laws of physics?

 

[Warm Machine]

Don't Plamas and LCD TVs know nothing about lightgun style controls?

 

[Diffense]

This is for people who can't see the difference between tilting/rolling and translation from one point to another.

From IGN's rundown of the demos.

Highlighting tilt sensitivity.

Set in the watery hub of Mario Sunshine, this demonstrated that not all controls are created equal. The remote could be held like a toy airplane, fingertips support its base, which allowed the player to tilt it forwards to dip down, back to gain elevation, and twisted left or right turn. The objective was just to steer the plane through rings in the sky. Of course the first thing that came to mind was Pilotwings, so it's easy to see how these simple applications of the controller could be grown into something more complex. It was pretty intuitive to pull off dips and quick turns. Miyamoto joked that you could have a controller peripheral shaped like a toy plane to really make it interesting.

This illustrates the pointing functionality and the depth perception.

One of the crudest demos, the screen displayed a flat map with many Pokemon characters crowded together on it. It was a spoof on Where's Waldo, the famous find-the-needle-in-the-haystack illustrated book. The controller lent the ability to look left and right by just pointing the cursor across the map, but also zooming in by moving towards the screen (or zooming back out by moving away). One can imagine how a sniper rifle in a first-person shooter might take advantage of those kinds of controls.

Obviously none of us are privvy to the details of Nintendo's implementation but obviously it works as the demos were actually played by people. It seems to me that gyros are combined with other sensors but it's not simply a gyro.

 

[Zaphod]

That's a not a new magical technology that will help the way you think. Accelerometer only works well for short burst movements. You don't want to use them for look function. Accelerometer will be used for swinging, tapping, pushing kind of action motions.

If the controller detects the movement, it can then determine how far it moved. Then the console can figure out that the controller is at a new specific point in space until it receives the next input. Sorry no new magic tech though.

 

[AssMan]

Can someone explain this "shell" to play conventional games to me? Do you put the mouse like controller and the remote it the shell to play 3rd party games?

 

[Shogmaster]

If the controller detects the movement, it can then determine how far it moved. Then the console can figure out that the controller is at a new specific point in space until it receives the next input. Sorry no new magic tech though.

Look, the simple fact is, your arm length limits movements with accelerometers, Ya? Ya. This is why it's only good for type of things I've listed.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Ok, let's try and reproduce Halo 2 controls on the Revolution. It doesn't really make much sense if some FPS don't have these things, but hell, let's give it a go.

Xbox:

Left Thumbstick - moves character, strafes left/right
Left Thumbstick Click - crouches, hold down to stay crouched
Right Thumbstick - aims up/down, turns left/right
Right Thumbstick Click - zooms scope, click only once
L - throws grenade, fires left weapon, boosts vehicles, brakes on warthog
R - fires primary/right weapon, honks horn on warthog
START - pauses game, shows settings
BACK - brings up current score
Up (control pad) - enables team chat
A - jumps
B - melee attacks
X - reloads (press once), action button, hold down to enter/hijack vehicle
Y - switches weapons (press once), hold down to pick up second weapon and dual wield
Black - swaps grenade types
White - turns on flashlight, press once to enable team chat

Revolution:

Move character, strafes left and right - Analogue stick
Crouches, hold down to stay crouched - Down on D pad
Aims up/down, turns left/right - Tilt control things
Zooms scope, click only once - Thrust tilt control forward
Throws grenade, fires left weapon, boosts vehicles, brakes on warthog - Z1 trigger
Fires primary/right weapon, honks horn on warthog - B trigger
Pauses game, shows settings - Start
Brings up current score - Select
Enables team chat -
Jumps - A button
Melee attacks - Right on D pad
Reloads (press once), action button, hold down to enter/hijack vehicle - Z2 trigger
Switches weapons (press once), hold down to pick up second weapon and dual wield - Up on D pad
Swaps grenade types - Left on D pad
Turns on flashlight, press once to enable team chat -

You're right, we can't do it all that easily. But what are we missing? Turning on a flashlight, enabling team chat...? I think you can find ways around team chat, and losing a flashlight will hardly lead to vastly less complex games.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

Yeah ha, aren't we witty. Tell me witty one, since there's a gyro-esque sensor for 3D directional control and there's this other sensor that detects rotate and revolve as well, explain what the directional control functions have to do with the tilt and rotate control functions? You may as well be saying both A and B buttons are the same button, now whose fucking with the laws of physics?

uh...what, I'm saying the gyroesque is the one that determines the "tilting" which is probably not limited to left/righ tilting, forward/reverse tilting, etc/etc.

Mapping and object in a 3 dimensional enviroment is not hard to do. Then it's just a matter of "pinging" it to see where it is. (motion capture dealio)


or

Maybe there's little tiny intelligent pikmin inside, hardwired to the controller. letting the rev know what's happening. That would explain the secrecy, they don't wanna get nailed for cruelty, now do they?

 

[Shogmaster]

Ok, let's try and reproduce Halo 2 controls on the Revolution. It doesn't really make much sense if some FPS don't have these things, but hell, let's give it a go.

Xbox:

Left Thumbstick - moves character, strafes left/right
Left Thumbstick Click - crouches, hold down to stay crouched
Right Thumbstick - aims up/down, turns left/right
Right Thumbstick Click - zooms scope, click only once
L - throws grenade, fires left weapon, boosts vehicles, brakes on warthog
R - fires primary/right weapon, honks horn on warthog
START - pauses game, shows settings
BACK - brings up current score
Up (control pad) - enables team chat
A - jumps
B - melee attacks
X - reloads (press once), action button, hold down to enter/hijack vehicle
Y - switches weapons (press once), hold down to pick up second weapon and dual wield
Black - swaps grenade types
White - turns on flashlight, press once to enable team chat

Revolution:

Move character, strafes left and right - Analogue stick
Crouches, hold down to stay crouched - Down on D pad
Aims up/down, turns left/right - Tilt control things
Zooms scope, click only once - Thrust tilt control forward
Throws grenade, fires left weapon, boosts vehicles, brakes on warthog - Z1 trigger
Fires primary/right weapon, honks horn on warthog - B trigger
Pauses game, shows settings - Start
Brings up current score - Select
Enables team chat -
Jumps - A button
Melee attacks - Right on D pad
Reloads (press once), action button, hold down to enter/hijack vehicle - Z2 trigger
Switches weapons (press once), hold down to pick up second weapon and dual wield - Up on D pad
Swaps grenade types - Left on D pad
Turns on flashlight, press once to enable team chat -

You're right, we can't do it all that easily. But what are we missing? Turning on a flashlight, enabling team chat...? I think you can find ways around team chat, and losing a flashlight will hardly lead to vastly less complex games.

In your example, your are using the d pad on the Rev to do action functions. You will have to reposition your whole hand grip to allow your thumb to go from A button to the d pad. That's not gonna be kosher. While you are adjusting your grip to do a malee attack, you've already been smacked twiced by the other guy. :lol

 

[JJConrad]

Mama Smurf: If you move the Start and Back funtions to the "a" and "b" buttons, you've got everything. You have to pull your thumb away anyway to uses these.

 

[Monk]

And you do realise that you need the gyro for look fuction, right? If you want to run in a blind WASD only, then good luck with that.

Who says? You can use the analog to turn, look up and look down, and the you can use the d-pad to strafe and move up and down. Use the gryos or whatever to aim within that screen. They did say that the controller needs only slight movement to work.

 

[MutFox]

Ok, let's try and reproduce Halo 2 controls on the Revolution. It doesn't really make much sense if some FPS don't have these things, but hell, let's give it a go.

Xbox:

Left Thumbstick - moves character, strafes left/right
Left Thumbstick Click - crouches, hold down to stay crouched
Right Thumbstick - aims up/down, turns left/right
Right Thumbstick Click - zooms scope, click only once
L - throws grenade, fires left weapon, boosts vehicles, brakes on warthog
R - fires primary/right weapon, honks horn on warthog
START - pauses game, shows settings
BACK - brings up current score
Up (control pad) - enables team chat
A - jumps
B - melee attacks
X - reloads (press once), action button, hold down to enter/hijack vehicle
Y - switches weapons (press once), hold down to pick up second weapon and dual wield
Black - swaps grenade types
White - turns on flashlight, press once to enable team chat

Revolution:

Move character, strafes left and right - Analogue stick
Crouches, hold down to stay crouched - Down on D pad
Aims up/down, turns left/right - Tilt control things
Zooms scope, click only once - Thrust tilt control forward
Throws grenade, fires left weapon, boosts vehicles, brakes on warthog - Z1 trigger
Fires primary/right weapon, honks horn on warthog - B trigger
Pauses game, shows settings - Start
Brings up current score - Select
Enables team chat -
Jumps - A button
Melee attacks - Right on D pad
Reloads (press once), action button, hold down to enter/hijack vehicle - Z2 trigger
Switches weapons (press once), hold down to pick up second weapon and dual wield - Up on D pad
Swaps grenade types - Left on D pad
Turns on flashlight, press once to enable team chat -

You're right, we can't do it all that easily. But what are we missing? Turning on a flashlight, enabling team chat...? I think you can find ways around team chat, and losing a flashlight will hardly lead to vastly less complex games.

You forgot the TILT + The Fact that with the X-Box,
you can't touch the face buttons when you're moving + aiming.
(It would be fine for Single player, but multiplayer you'd DIE! :lol )

 

[Bowflex]

NEXT GEN IS HERE.

:lol

I had to.

Man, I cant f'in wait.

 

[Shogmaster]

You forgot the TILT + The Fact that with the X-Box,
you can't touch the face buttons when you're moving + aiming.
(It would be fine for Single player, but multiplayer you'd DIE! :lol )

What you are not realising is that XBox controller is held with both hands so it's not a big deal to adjust the grip with one of the hands. With the Rev, you might drop the controller if you adjust your grip.

 

[Ruzbeh]

You're confusing me, Shogmaster. What do you think about the Revolution's controller in short?

 

[sprsk]

What you are not realising is that XBox controller is held with both hands so it's not a big deal to adjust the grip with one of the hands. With the Rev, you might drop the controller if you adjust your grip.

-_- you gotta be kidding me.

 

[Monk]

With the Rev, you might drop the controller if you adjust your grip.

Only if you happen to be Mr Bean.

 

[Zaphod]

Look, the simple fact is, your arm length limits movements with accelerometers, Ya? Ya. This is why it's only good for type of things I've listed.

I guess I don't understand. Your arm will limit movement of the controller regardless what tech is used. I'm not sure what you are trying to say at all in this thread other that it won't work for Halo, no matter what, no ifs ands or buts.

 

[Scrow]

Oh well then, I guess nintendo needs a noble prize for discovering a new dimension.

The TILT dimension.

yeah, very funny. it's not a dimension, it's a motion.

moving the remote from left to right isn't the same as tilting it from left to right.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Seems to me being a couple of buttons down for some pretty tame uses (which you do have buttons for anyway, reaching for them might be hard though) is more than made up for by the faster and more precise control (so we're told from the demonstrations impressions anyway) and being able to do all those other things while still aiming/moving.

 

[Papi]

In your example, your are using the d pad on the Rev to do action functions. You will have to reposition your whole hand grip to allow your thumb to go from A button to the d pad. That's not gonna be kosher. While you are adjusting your grip to do a malee attack, you've already been smacked twiced by the other guy. :lol

How's about the fat A button rests under your thumb's knuckle and you use the end of your thumb to press the D-pad?

 

[borghe]

anybody who says this controller actually limits gameplay really has no creative ability.

and many people forget that developers map things to all the buttons on a controller because they can. yet you don't see people saying the XBox sucks for FPS games because it doesn't have 101 keys like a PC keyboard. no different here. It just means you fit the gameplay for the controller. FPS games survived being cutdown to less than a dozen "keys" on the xbox. They can survive being moved to the controller as well.

:\

 

[koam]

quick thought, how are we supposed to press the d-pad and the big A button at the same time?

You use the B button underneath or use your right hand for A/X/Y

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

yeah, very funny. it's not a dimension, it's a motion.

moving the remote from left to right isn't the same as tilting it from left to right.

Someone post a "mind blown" picture, because I've been introduced to something I NEVER could have possibly imagined. Thanks.

 

[sammy]

I just realized that with a ‘freerange’ type of 3d movement with the RevO-controller that issues of ‘inverted aim’ verses ‘noninverted’ are almost entirely solved, since you actually aim and no longer scroll a cursor.