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[Deku]

Apologies in advance for any rambling - I've had about 3 1/2 hours of sleep here and I'm getting ready for work. I'm going to try to keep my reply coherent, but I make you no promises.

With the Revolution (or whatever Nintendo's going to be calling the system) controller, Nintendo's asking me to throw out all of that and learn a completely different way to manipulate the action onscreen. It's more than just learning a different control scheme, it's learning a completely new skill set. I doubt anything I know about gaming now is going to translate into skill at moving a wand in 3D space. Using this thing, I'm going to be going from someone who knows how games work and can get right down to the business of playing them to an unskilled noob who will likely die countless times because he can't control the action in a way that's become intuitive for him, and instead has to try to acclimate himself to some control device that was designed to be as intuitive as possible for non-gamers. I'm not sure I'm too keen on that, really.

Reading your rant, I get the impression that you've already made up your mind long ago you don't want to play differently.

You mention intuitiveness in your writing. It's really a value judgement as there are plenty of games using traditional controls that are anything but intuitive. The Revolution controller may infact be more intuitive by being straightforward. Swing the controler = swing the sword. It's never apparent that pressing A on the control pad swings the sword. And some games have you pressing B or a different button.

Each game has a learning curve regardless of the controller. PC games also have learning curves where they're usually up to 20 to 24 new keystrokes to learn on an average MMORPG , FPS or strategy game.

And your argument that it would be significantly harder to learn to controls for Revolution games doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. So far, it seems to indicate that Nintendo is leaning in the oppositibe direction to make things more intuitive than with a traditional controller by making the action by the player translate direction into action on creen. I think your personal biases has clouded your judgements with the revolution.

 

[XeMinus]

2 - I want everything thats blue on the Rev to be red, to go with the Nintendo logo, would look sweet imo !

The Nintendo logo is red in the 'Western Hemisphere' only. In Japan they seem to use it blue (aside from white and black). Which is far far far more elegant in my opinion. In fact, I think they should end with the red logo and start using it as in Japan, starting with the Revolution.

 

[Vashu]

Using this thing, I'm going to be going from someone who knows how games work and can get right down to the business of playing them to an unskilled noob who will likely die countless times because he can't control the action in a way that's become intuitive for him, and instead has to try to acclimate himself to some control device that was designed to be as intuitive as possible for non-gamers. I'm not sure I'm too keen on that, really.

So? You're not the only one, everyone has to adapt to this new style of play. I think you are too worried about your 'status' as elite gamer (no offense by the way) and rather not be considered a 'noob' as you play the games. I could be wrong though, if I am ignore that part.

But like I said, everyone has to adapt, and I'm glad Nintendo did this. Of course, commercials and trailers are greatly exaggerated, but the video they showed at the conference gave off a wonderful feeling. Somehow it seems they put the fun back into gaming, and with this you can do a whole lot more than with just a motion sensitive camera. Sure, it takes some getting used to as we need to 'think out of the box', but I myself am willing to do that.

And to be honest, I can see some great gamedesigns coming from the 'Rev'

 

[Scrow]

however, that wouldn't happen to be the highest resolution pic on earth of the controller would it?

actually, it's not. there's another one that is 1800x2008. Want it?

 

[Spike]

Speaking of attachments...

Suddenly, a Resident Evil or Metal Gear game became most appealing...

 

[Xrenity]

actually, it's not. there's another one that is 1800x2008. Want it?

Of course he does :d

 

[Razoric]

Suddenly, a Resident Evil or Metal Gear game became most appealing...

If the only weapon you had in the game was a gun and you didnt mind holding something like that for hours at a time. :\

 

[Diffense]

I don't want the 'shell' to be included with the system either. IMO, it's not even strictly necessary. It could result in really half-assed support for the remote; a loophole for the creatively bankrupt. On the other hand, I understand the pragmatic reasons for its existence.

BY the way, everyone who doesn't WANT to hate this thing will eventually like it.

 

[Scoobert]

I dont see how deveopers can fail to support this, when they can make 2 Revolution games for the price of one PS3/X360 game. Arcade developers maraccas/light guns/golf/tennis/pool/etc will have a field day with this. As well as smaller indie developers like Treasure with smaller teams and budgets.

To further add to this, it really is less accessories devs have to worry about. Devs can reach the entire user base of the console, without looking at the userbase who just owns the fishing controller, or the light gun, or the maracas, or the drum, etc. We can actually see these types of games sell like they never have before.

 

[Diffense]

To further add to this, it really is less accessories devs have to worry about. Devs can reach the entire user base of the console, without looking at the userbase who just owns the fishing controller, or the light gun, or the maracas, or the drum, etc. We can actually see these types of games sell like they never have before.

Yeah, it's tremedously versatile. The reason for that is that our hands are versatile and it frees our hands.

 

[Scrow]

Of course he does :d

the image is 1256 kilobytes, which means it can't be hosted in imageshack (which has a limit of 1024 kilobytes). if you know of a place that can host larger images let me know.

edit: nevermind, i just ramped up the jpeg compression on it and the file is now 283 kilobytes and you can't even notice any loss in quality either.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Speaking of attachments...

Awesome!!!

 

[Razoric]

I dunno if this has already been mentioned but I think the RTS control problem for consoles has been solved.

Playing an RTS on this system would be easy as fuck. I wonder if Blizzard has been contacted yet. :O

 

[SantaC]

I dunno if this has already been mentioned but I think the RTS control problem for consoles has been solved.

Playing an RTS on this system would be easy as fuck. I wonder if Blizzard has been contacted yet. :O

blizzard and Nintendo...hmm that was long ago

 

[Ruzbeh]

that wouldn't happen to be a HDTV would it?

Beautiful, beautiful hands... O_O

 

[SantaC]

evolution of console gaming controllers

http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/index.html

 

[Ruzbeh]

evolution of console gaming controllers

http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/index.html

The Rev remote should be complete seperate because it didn't evolve from the gamecube at all. It's somewhat based on the NES controller, as the site mentions, but the line shouldn't be drawn like that.

 

[MrPing1000]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/mousedown/revo.swf

gotta love dem fanboys :lol

 

[Pimpwerx]

evolution of console gaming controllers

http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/index.html

Made by a Nintendo fan with blinders on. The Wavebird is far from the first wireless gamepad. FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR from it. I see no connection between the GC pad and either the 360 controller or the DS3. Yet, that tree tries to give Nintendo for just about everything under the sun. Meh. PEACE.

 

[xabre]

The Wavebird is far from the first wireless gamepad. FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR from it.

It's the first wireless pad from a console manufacturer to be become standard on a console. Of course it isn’t the first wireless pad, no one said it was.

I see no connection between the GC pad and either the 360 controller or the DS3.

They're wireless.

 

[Spike]

If the only weapon you had in the game was a gun and you didnt mind holding something like that for hours at a time. :\

Well, for the handgun mode, you tap the fire button. When you get an automatic rifle, you hold the button down for a streaming attack of bullets. You might have to stop mid-game and press, I dunno, the home button, to refill your bullets.

All I'm trying to say is that if I can come up with something as basic than this, imagine what guys like Kojima, Mikami, and Itagaki could dream up.

 

[nightez]

The Wavebird is far from the first wireless gamepad. FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR from it.

Its the first wireless controller that works period. All the previous attempts were plagued with I.R. and battery problems.

 

[6.8]

It's the first wireless pad from a console manufacturer to be become standard on a console.

My GC didn't ship with one. Can I get my money back?

 

[Cheebs]

My GC didn't ship with one. Can I get my money back?

Dual Shock became the standard controller for PSX and it wasn't shipped with it.

 

[xabre]

My GC didn't ship with one. Can I get my money back?

Pretty obvious what I mean.

 

[Goreomedy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/mousedown/revo.swf

gotta love dem fanboys :lol

:lol

 

[Brannon]

I don't think anyone will have problems holding the RC for extended periods of time in a shooting position. Lightgun games are typically short anyway for that reason. Hell, the RC is leagues lighter than the arcade lightguns.

 

[3kuSaS]

I think this is a neat idea, but as someone said before...not as a standard controller. Man, Nintendo is doomed. I predict Revolution will sell worse than Gamecube has.

 

[Diffense]

You have to be blind to not see that Nintendo has been driving interface innovation in console games since the NES. Nintendo scarcely invented a thing but it was often the first to think of using certain technologies in console games.

 

[masud]

that wouldn't happen to be a HDTV would it?

Nintendo is mocking us.

 

[Fuzzy]

that wouldn't happen to be a HDTV would it?

Forget about that, there aren't any wires from the Revolution to the TV. I think I just figured out the next surprise!!!

 

[Ruzbeh]

Forget about that, there aren't any wires from the Revolution to the TV. I think I just figured out the next surprise!!!

And... Look! The TV is entirely blank... I think I just figured out another surprise as well!!

 

[Lo-Volt]

And... Look! The TV is entirely blank... I think I just figured out another surprise as well!!

A universal remote function would be nice.

 

[bigNman]

I cant wait for a game like Deus Ex to hit the Revolution. Imagine being able to interact with hunderds of different objects. Instead of just dropping an object or throwing it a set distance, you could do whatever you wanted to it!

 

[Scoobert]

Heh, a point and click type game would work beautifully. Actually, a lot of pc-esque games would work.

 

[fugimax]

Some of my light-gamer friends are totally pumped for Revolution now. Before the controller was revealed they couldn't care less (even after I told them it played nes/snes/n64/gcn!), but now some of them are out finding info on it themselves, and a few are even saying they're definitely buying one.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I think the whole "normal shell controller" defeats the purpose of the new remote controller. Simple, elegant, intuitive, yet complex. I already have a wavebird, why do I need a "shell controller"?

I think if Nintendo has deemed this controller the new defacto input device for Revolution games they should do away with the old controller setup entirely. Have the developers pick their brains to incorporate their games to the new controller setup. If this is indeed to be their gaming revolution they have to go all the way, not in a half assed way.

I disagree. The great thing about the DS was that not only did it introduce totally new ways to play as standard options, but still had every regular control method the GBA had, plus two more regular buttons. From GameCube to Revolution, though, there is a gain and loss of functionality. Having the shell is a nice compromise option.

The whole slot crap is a really clunky idea IMHO and I think it will encourage lazy development, especially if it comes packed with the console. If Nintendo isn't confident in the capability of this 'freehand' remote & analog stick for a variety of games then they shouldn't release it as the primary controller. They should just have a remote-enabled wavebird and be done with it.

The difference is, with remote+shell you can play with just the remote for games where that work better. If they just released the combo as one, games that would play better doing the motion control with one hand (or one in each hand) would be a bit screwed.

Also the other attachment ideas discussed (wheel, gun shape, bongos, whatever) would then be more difficult to pull off using a regular controller as the base rather than the remote which can easily plug into anything. That or they'd need to be totally unique controllers and include their own battery, rumble, wireless, etc.

 

[Kroole]

Well yeah.. One of my friends is more of an x-box fan, although he bought the Cube after the massive prise cuts cause it was too cheap to not buy. Anyway he had a pre-ordered X360 before TGS and now he has his eyes mainly on the Rev. So obviously the Rev has some sort of attraction to non-Nintendo-fans and might as an result be something big.
It's all up to nitendo now if they will pimp it like hell or just work in the background.

 

[SantaC]

Made by a Nintendo fan with blinders on. The Wavebird is far from the first wireless gamepad. FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR from it. I see no connection between the GC pad and either the 360 controller or the DS3. Yet, that tree tries to give Nintendo for just about everything under the sun. Meh. PEACE.

wtf? Do you see Nintendo fanboys everywhere you go? I checked his page, nothing points that he is a nin fanboy, plus it was made by someone in 3DRealms forums.

pathetic.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Seems like nintendo created a chain reaction, everyone i talked to about it are suddently very interested, they didnt even take a look at gamecube this gen and didnt even know revolution was coming, most of them were hyped for x360 at work and now i see them finding revolution news during break on the PC we have, big smiles on their face as they think of possibilites and mimic the movements with their hands as they're explaning what it could do in a game, was funny to watch.

My brother who keeps buying expensive PCs because he could never get into console FPS due to dual analog configurations is now all excited about rev's controller after i explained how it could work for an fps game.

Look on the gaming forums, whats the hot topics? i've seen forums where 6 or so replies were standard for gaming news, their revolution's thread is now reaching 8 pages. Its mostly positive and when the posters learn about some possibilities, they're curious, some even claiming that they want revolution now. There's some negative too but wether its bad or good, its talk about nintendo's next gen console, its marketing, its hype.

Would nintendo have so much talk about their console had they went with a traditional design like x360 and ps3? I seriously doubt it, would it have attracted gamers that didnt care about nintendo before? doubtful.


I think nintendo is on to something, if the software is there, devs are hyped to make something on it and that marketing is huge, it... naw i wont speculate. Its exciting though.

Definitely TGS' biggest surprise.

 

[Synbios459]

To those who like it: Even you guys have to admite this is certainly not "Revolutionary". :lol

 

[LowTecky]

Did you expect a solution to world energy problems?

 

[Scrow]

To those who like it: Even you guys have to admite this is certainly not "Revolutionary". :lol

compared to what the competition is offering? yes, it is.

 

[bummyhead]

http://seriousgamer007.blogspot.com/

That guy's downfall was better :lol

What a dork. I hope he doesn't blow himself up in his mommy's basement now. His mom must be disapointed enough already. If she has to wipe his guts off the walls it will be adding insult to injury.

 

[koam]

Okay I've been thinking about the technical aspects of this, or more importantly, how it works and here's what I've come up with. While this might not be exactly how it works, I think it's a close guess.

In order to determine where the controller is versus the TV you need a 3D axis (X,Y,Z).

To get this axis you need two "sensors".

The first sensor is the little unit that you place above your TV. Think of this one as a camera, it looks and detect where the controller currently is (left,right,up,down) or in other words, the (X,Y) axis.

The second sensor is in the controller itself (The IR looking thing i'd imagine). This communicates with the sensor you placed above your TV and it determines the distance between the controller and the TV. In other words, the Z axis.

So now you have the (X,Y,Z). Great you have a point in 3D space, now what?

Well the last thing the console wants to know is how the user is holding the controller. This is determined using the gyration technology that's in the controller.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Revolution- noun - A momentous or sweeping change

Fits the description quite well if you ask me.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Okay I've been thinking about the technical aspects of this, or more importantly, how it works and here's what I've come up with. While this might not be exactly how it works, I think it's a close guess.

In order to determine where the controller is versus the TV you need a 3D axis (X,Y,Z).

To get this axis you need two "sensors".

The first sensor is the little unit that you place above your TV. Think of this one as a camera, it looks (similar to the eyetoy) and detect where the controller currently is (left,right,up,down) or in other words, the (X,Y) axis.

The second sensor is in the controller itself (The IR looking thing i'd imagine). This communicates with the sensor you placed above your TV and it determines the distance between the controller and the TV. In other words, the Z axis.

So now you have the (X,Y,Z). Great you have a point in 3D space, now what?

Well the last thing the console wants to know is how the user is holding the controller. This is determined using the gyration technology that's in the controller.

You're thinking too hard.

:lol

 

[koam]

You're thinking too hard.

:lol

Why? How do you think it works?

 

[demon]

To those who like it: Even you guys have to admite this is certainly not "Revolutionary". :lol

This is the biggest innovation in (standardized) console controllers in a hell of a long time. What the fuck have Microsoft and Sony done this generation to innovate console controllers? A slightly more comfortable version of the Xbox pad and a fuckin boomerang?

I'm really excited about the Revolution controller, and all of a sudden I'm a lot more interested in getting a Rev when it comes out.

 

[jgkspsx]

The first sensor is the little unit that you place above your TV. Think of this one as a camera, it looks (similar to the eyetoy) and detect where the controller currently is (left,right,up,down) or in other words, the (X,Y) axis.

The second sensor is in the controller itself (The IR looking thing i'd imagine). This communicates with the sensor you placed above your TV and it determines the distance between the controller and the TV. In other words, the Z axis.

So now you have the (X,Y,Z). Great you have a point in 3D space, now what?

Well the last thing the console wants to know is how the user is holding the controller. This is determined using the gyration technology that's in the controller.

Hm, this seems reasonable. Unless I'm missing something, though, I don't know how a single sensor could detect a 2D position planar to its face.

I still stick by the idea that the "TV thing" is a beacon the controller uses to detect its own position. Otherwise you'd need different ones for every controller, and that's just dumb. IR is stupid for a number of reasons, but I have a hard time figuring out why else there's that transparent plastic shield on the end of the controller. It rules out ultrasonic technologies.

But, yeah, there's got to be two or more WWT-like solid-state gyros. (Didn't WWT need two?) I doubt very much Gyration's technology is used at all.

I love technology that makes you say, "how?" I also love that Sony and Microsoft engineers are having similar conversations as we speak