Sweedishrodeo
the smegma spreader
Finally I can swing an imaginary sword and not be frowned upon! Excelsior!
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Revolution Controller Revealed
- Thread starter Matlock
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jgkspsx said:Hm, this seems reasonable. Unless I'm missing something, though, I don't know how a single sensor could detect a 2D position planar to its face.
I still stick by the idea that the "TV thing" is a beacon the controller uses to detect its own position. Otherwise you'd need different ones for every controller, and that's just dumb. IR is stupid for a number of reasons, but I have a hard time figuring out why else there's that transparent plastic shield on the end of the controller. It rules out ultrasonic technologies.
But, yeah, there's got to be two or more WWT-like solid-state gyros. (Didn't WWT need two?) I doubt very much Gyration's technology is used at all.
I love technology that makes you say, "how?" I also love that Sony and Microsoft engineers are having similar conversations as we speak
A single sensor could detect a 2D plane, see eyetoy but it really depends on what kinf of sensor it is.
You're probably right about the one beacon though, it would make sense. However, I'm thinking that one beacon determines the 4 locations of the controllers. Otherwise, you would be able to have a huge number of controllers instead of just 4.
I have no idea what the plastic shield is too. No way this uses IR, it's two slow and it has to point directly at the receiver.
If no one sees how this can work PERFECTLY for Ouendan... wow. It was like if almost it was made for it!
I thought of this while playing 'One Night Carnival' and it just seemed so perfect. And hey, instead of using one stylus (remote) you can use two stylus'. I think that would be so badass.
I thought of this while playing 'One Night Carnival' and it just seemed so perfect. And hey, instead of using one stylus (remote) you can use two stylus'. I think that would be so badass.
Like pretty much everyone else, my initial reaction was "wtf?" and "god Nintendo's doomed."
Then yesterday, I watched the trailer, and my opinion completely changed.
I wondered how they got MP2 to work on it, and then I read that you point the controller down to turn into morphball, that you can use gesture movements to perform those functions like morphing and jumping, and I was like "ooooh."
I can see potential, but I want to try it out myself and see actual games for the system.
Then yesterday, I watched the trailer, and my opinion completely changed.
I wondered how they got MP2 to work on it, and then I read that you point the controller down to turn into morphball, that you can use gesture movements to perform those functions like morphing and jumping, and I was like "ooooh."
I can see potential, but I want to try it out myself and see actual games for the system.
Connections to Nintendo are tenuous at best, if you ever followed PC gaming. Interfaces come and go, and many fall by the wayside first as failed accessories. Some are championed as interfaces for other similar devices before being adopted for controllers, yet the "innovation" is questionable. Take the wireless thing for instance. How many people here had a RF mouse or keyboard for years before the Wavebird? And to top it off, the Wavebird is not even a GC standard. The standard controller is wired. Are we going by accessories or stock controllers? It's a hokey fucking chart at best, and seems to trumpet many of the hollow claims by Nintendo fans over the years that Nintendo leads the way in controller innovation. PEACE.SantaCruZer said:
The thing is that, in terms of use in first-party console controllers, Nintendo was the first with pretty much every component you see in a "traditional" controller. And while movement sensors and soforth may not have, strictly speaking, been invented by Nintendo, I have little doubt that Nintendo are going to pioneer a genuinely new way to play games. Whether it catches on as well as their previous innovations is a big question, but, for the good of the industry, and it's ability to actually adapt (which it has been doing very little of in the past decade or so), I certainly hope that Nintendo has a future with this device.
God's Hand
Banned
<-- In Nintendo We Trust
STFU. I'm not breaking from anything. The Rev was an open invite for trolling. I took a number, and now it's my turn. Maybe Nintendo could have released something that wasn't a public embarassment. PEACE.masud said:
EDIT: BTW, do any of you actually play Madden or fighting games? Hell, or racing games for that matter? Am I the only GC owner who has some of these in his collection? The Re-mote should have you more than a little concerned. Not every GC game was Zelda. Not every Rev game will be either.
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
Pimpwerx said:
embarassment?
:lol
Yes I laughed when I saw it, but it's pretty cool tech. And they have the balls to not only implement it, but use it. I'm more that certain nintendo is gonna use it sexily. Next Next gen it's gonna be gyrotown.
Warm Machine
Member
I think you guys are expecting way too much from the games that will be available for this control. Ever think how the couple on the sofa playing raquet ball is controlling the locomotion for their on screen characters? Ever think about that most games they think they are playing likely consist of standing in a single position or on a rail and doing a single specialized movement.
This is going to become a standard for when a character has to interact with something or do specialized movements. Such as in Jet Grind Radio where you are painting graffitti, Link conducting a wind spell, playing maraca games, chopping trees, catching fish, petting on screen dogs, etc. Game concepts that already exist but will be given a different or replacement control mechanism than before. One thing I do like about it is that it does remove specialty controllers such as drums, lightguns, maracas, or interactive knives from the store shelves and that does free developers up from having to not only sell software but a piece of hardware as well so in that regard they are more free.
If you think you'll be playing something like Soul Calibur or Zelda and running about freely and striking enemies with the wand as if you were holding a sword you are likely to be dissapointed. Imagine the animation madness that such a game would have when motions done by the player do not match up to the defined character strikes in speed or strength or position. Inverse Kinematatics for characters only get you so far. This is especially true when a character you control faces the screen and the player's input is rendered backwards.
If you think FPS games are going to be amazing for it I'd give it a second thought. Remember that in an FPS the sight of the gun is generally in the center of the screen and the mouse controls the camera around the sight. The wand would have to be toggled to between camera and free hand sight, just like the button toggle in Goldeneye or Freedom Fighters, so it is likely that you won't just be pointing at enemies on screen and blasting them while moving just like GE or FF doesn't allow. This isn't going to revolutionize FPS games, just give them an alternate control sceme to one that already exists. Also, remember that an FPS has the weapon locked to the camera so reaching into the screen is likely just going to control the arm's length. Sure, you'll be able to shoot around a corner from the camera view but your mobility is likely going to be locked to WSDA at that point just like free aim.
Drinky is mostly right about the metaphor argument. You can just as easily pet a dog by quickly scrubbing the a hand icon with the analogue stick over the digital dog as waving a wand at it or scrubbing a stylus over a touch screen. Just like you can just as easily press corresponding buttons on a controller in a rythm game instead of having a drum kit or dance pad. The more I think about the control the less I think it will create any new genres. Conventionally and pragmatically the wand becomes a control that is more analogue than analogue because it has a more defined sense of acceleration and decelleration and the input the player gives is directly their own sense of motion and inate ability for speed.
This controller isn't really about creating new types of games, just about changing controls for ones that already exist into something more "natural"
This is going to become a standard for when a character has to interact with something or do specialized movements. Such as in Jet Grind Radio where you are painting graffitti, Link conducting a wind spell, playing maraca games, chopping trees, catching fish, petting on screen dogs, etc. Game concepts that already exist but will be given a different or replacement control mechanism than before. One thing I do like about it is that it does remove specialty controllers such as drums, lightguns, maracas, or interactive knives from the store shelves and that does free developers up from having to not only sell software but a piece of hardware as well so in that regard they are more free.
If you think you'll be playing something like Soul Calibur or Zelda and running about freely and striking enemies with the wand as if you were holding a sword you are likely to be dissapointed. Imagine the animation madness that such a game would have when motions done by the player do not match up to the defined character strikes in speed or strength or position. Inverse Kinematatics for characters only get you so far. This is especially true when a character you control faces the screen and the player's input is rendered backwards.
If you think FPS games are going to be amazing for it I'd give it a second thought. Remember that in an FPS the sight of the gun is generally in the center of the screen and the mouse controls the camera around the sight. The wand would have to be toggled to between camera and free hand sight, just like the button toggle in Goldeneye or Freedom Fighters, so it is likely that you won't just be pointing at enemies on screen and blasting them while moving just like GE or FF doesn't allow. This isn't going to revolutionize FPS games, just give them an alternate control sceme to one that already exists. Also, remember that an FPS has the weapon locked to the camera so reaching into the screen is likely just going to control the arm's length. Sure, you'll be able to shoot around a corner from the camera view but your mobility is likely going to be locked to WSDA at that point just like free aim.
Drinky is mostly right about the metaphor argument. You can just as easily pet a dog by quickly scrubbing the a hand icon with the analogue stick over the digital dog as waving a wand at it or scrubbing a stylus over a touch screen. Just like you can just as easily press corresponding buttons on a controller in a rythm game instead of having a drum kit or dance pad. The more I think about the control the less I think it will create any new genres. Conventionally and pragmatically the wand becomes a control that is more analogue than analogue because it has a more defined sense of acceleration and decelleration and the input the player gives is directly their own sense of motion and inate ability for speed.
This controller isn't really about creating new types of games, just about changing controls for ones that already exist into something more "natural"
Fuzzy said:Forget about that, there aren't any wires from the Revolution to the TV. I think I just figured out the next surprise!!!
Both the DS and the Revolution are about changing the way we interact with games, said Reggie Fils-Aime, executive vice president of sales and marketing for Nintendo.
"The old model of a person tethered to a game control tethered to a device tethered to a TV is over," he told MSNBC.com.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7159422/
Pimpwerx said:
racing games- easy as fuck you grab the controller in the horizontal position and move it left and right to make the car move, just like you would do when you are driving a car.
fightings games- seriously who the fuck is a fighting games fan a play the game with a normal pad? every fighting game fan I know has their costume arcade stick
Madden or sports game for that matter- I dunno... I know baseball and golf could be real easy.
did you miss the part where it says revolution can play traditional games in the traditional way of playing them?
norinrad21
Banned
Pimpwerx said:
:lol :lol :lol Easy my good man, easy chillout
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
Warm Machine said:
I'm gonna assume you don't work in something were creativity is needed, right? And I thank you for that.
That thing is chock full of gyroscopes.... every flip of the wrist in every direction... left, right, up, down, dive, rise, roll, yaw, etc, is gonna be reflected in the game.
I think this controller is fucking amazing and all the naysayers will be eating their words once it's released. You guys know that this means you can literally have Zelda games where you're swinging your arm like you have a sword in it?!
EDIT: and btw, if it hasn't been mentioend, EA has already come out and said that they're very excited to start developing sports games with this kind of control system, as they think it could be something amazing.
I think this controller is fucking amazing and all the naysayers will be eating their words once it's released. You guys know that this means you can literally have Zelda games where you're swinging your arm like you have a sword in it?!
EDIT: and btw, if it hasn't been mentioend, EA has already come out and said that they're very excited to start developing sports games with this kind of control system, as they think it could be something amazing.
Pimpwerx said:
Actually man sorry that post was in poor taste. Up until now I never really fully understood the strains that these Nintendo fans and their pro Nintendo agenda could place on a perfectly rational person like yourself. Getting that worked up about is really your only recourse. I see that now. Again sorry.
Warm Machine
Member
Cauliflower of Love said:
Then please tell me where I am wrong. Please tell me what they really showed and just how these games will be or tell me how anything revolutionary in terms of gameplay was invented that didn't already exist in one way or another.
God's Hand
Banned
I hope you realize there are smarter and more creative people than you. Just wait till the Revolution is finalized and released and try it yourself. Or you can just keep playing the guessing game!Warm Machine said:
gamergirly
Member
koam said:
Please dude. No Physics on the weekends
Warm Machine
Member
So this is what the next year has in store? People claiming others have no creativity because they state that the controller is essentially a way of controlling a 3d point in space with manually controlled acceleration, decelleration, and rotation?
Right now there are fans who have an imagination that is expecting things beyond what this control actually offers. They aren't looking at the tech logically they are looking at it magically. They are also the ones who think DDR isn't just a variation on Simon Says
I can tell how this control actually works and its abilites with in a real world game environment without having to try a single piece of software because I know how it works. Frankly, I do have the imagination but it is bound by the realities of the ability of the controller.
Right now there are fans who have an imagination that is expecting things beyond what this control actually offers. They aren't looking at the tech logically they are looking at it magically. They are also the ones who think DDR isn't just a variation on Simon Says
I can tell how this control actually works and its abilites with in a real world game environment without having to try a single piece of software because I know how it works. Frankly, I do have the imagination but it is bound by the realities of the ability of the controller.
Warm Machine
Member
Dez said:
Your right, you just said it better than I did.
Warm Machine
Member
Thraktor said:
Yeah, confirms everything I wrote.
Warm Machine
Member
nightez said:
Modelling or movement? There are already high end physical CG modelling tools that use 3D control methods.
Why are people worried about not being able to play traditional games?? For thsoe games like Madden you have Sony and MS. Therefore what reason do you have to be mad at Nintendo?
Only thing I can think of is, Zelda and Mario will never be the same again, but maybe that's a good thing. Its annoying to think that people are pissed about conventional games not working on this thing - thats the point, we don't want rehashed conventional games.
Oh and the stick isn't about reading exact arm movements necessarily. In Zelda, if you take an exact copy of WW and replace the slash button with a swipe motion, you could pull off the exact same combos by moving your stick 2 cm left and right. This free's up a button and changes gameplay abit.
In Mario Tennis you don't have to moveyour hand exactly as if it was Mario's hand. But different types of swishes can replace previous button presses. Movement and aim is the same as before - analogue. Only button presses are replaced.
But the key point is if you build a game from the ground up based around this controller, it might turn out much better than a PS3 equivalent.
Only thing I can think of is, Zelda and Mario will never be the same again, but maybe that's a good thing. Its annoying to think that people are pissed about conventional games not working on this thing - thats the point, we don't want rehashed conventional games.
Oh and the stick isn't about reading exact arm movements necessarily. In Zelda, if you take an exact copy of WW and replace the slash button with a swipe motion, you could pull off the exact same combos by moving your stick 2 cm left and right. This free's up a button and changes gameplay abit.
In Mario Tennis you don't have to moveyour hand exactly as if it was Mario's hand. But different types of swishes can replace previous button presses. Movement and aim is the same as before - analogue. Only button presses are replaced.
But the key point is if you build a game from the ground up based around this controller, it might turn out much better than a PS3 equivalent.
How, by pointing out that the Vectrex controller was far more innovative than most Nintendo controllers? You're as paranoid as any Nintendo obsessive.Pimpwerx said:
That there's an awesome site, I just wish the guy would include third-party controls. I'd like to have him add the ASCII RPG controllers (Rev precursors), the Alps batarang (DS3 precursor), and the neGcon (fucking awesome).
You're right that EM wave sensors (like video sensors) sample planar wavefronts. My bad. It doesn't seem that this is a video-based solution, though (Sony'd kill 'em, to begin withkoam said:
).Bluetooth allows you to calculate position in 2D space? First I've heard of it...
Eh, dealing with more than four controllers just isn't worth it, is it?
Uh oh, the Nintendo hive is swarming. Yes, I owned a PS2. Suprise suprise, it served me better than the GC I now own. Wind Waker was awesome. Games like Beyond Good and Evil and PoP also survived the button layout. But if you seriously play Madden or a fighting game, don't even pretend you're not ashamed of this abomination. Laugh all you want. you know what system most of your friends are gonna end up owning...if you actually have any. I was hoping the Rev was gonna be a step in the right direction. I expected some VR interface, or a gyro coupled to a Wavebird with a proper button layout (that's right, I've praised the Wavebird design to high heaven, just not the button layout). But I'm not gonna make excuses for this shit.
I don't own stock in this company. I'm not on their payroll. None of you are either. If you honestly don't play either of the two types of games I mentioned, then you should be fine. You probably don't play racing games either. You'll probably be happy with this mockery just as some of you seemed genuinely happy with the state of affairs on the GC. But I'm not. I am sad I may never play another Zelda game after TP, but that's the way it goes. The band played on as the Titanic sank. I don't expect any of you rabidly defending this joke to be aware of the demise of Nintendo gaming until it's too late. Wait...that's too melodramatic. I think some of you guys are just in denial, and won't snap out of it until you see some of the GC titles you liked playing going exclusively to the PS3 and 360. Nintendo doesn't want any part of the gaming industry. PEACE.
I don't own stock in this company. I'm not on their payroll. None of you are either. If you honestly don't play either of the two types of games I mentioned, then you should be fine. You probably don't play racing games either. You'll probably be happy with this mockery just as some of you seemed genuinely happy with the state of affairs on the GC. But I'm not. I am sad I may never play another Zelda game after TP, but that's the way it goes. The band played on as the Titanic sank. I don't expect any of you rabidly defending this joke to be aware of the demise of Nintendo gaming until it's too late. Wait...that's too melodramatic. I think some of you guys are just in denial, and won't snap out of it until you see some of the GC titles you liked playing going exclusively to the PS3 and 360. Nintendo doesn't want any part of the gaming industry. PEACE.
God's Hand
Banned
There's also the traditional controller shell, which I'd be willing to be the farm on that Nintendo will package with the Revolution. They'd have to, or third-party ports would be limited.Shao said:
Also, anyone else notice how the press shots and the demonstration video showed people playing on widescreen HDTVs? I think this is a good sign. A friend of mine told me that NOA was furious when they found out about NCLs decision. Supposedly things have changed and HDTV resolutions will be supported. Only time will tell...
I really try not to post redundant info...but...
For people like Pimpwerx, you could always think of the Revolution as Nintendo's next console that will have a traditional, WaveBird-esque controller, and forget about the remote completely. You know, because Nintendo IS giving you that option :lol
My only real concern is whether or not developers will gamble on the Revolution. I really doubt it. No matter what certain figures say, like Kojima, etc., I don't think *they* are the ones who get to pick their budget for titles.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a quirky little title from one of them on the Revolution at all. However, I really doubt we'll be seeing that many blockbusters from them all the same. Only time will tell, but right now, other than Nintendo I don't see many developers creating titles that say use the Nunchaku configuration...most will rely on the shell controller, maybe with some added remote functionality.
EDIT: Just read your last post Pimpwerx. You're such a fucking dramaqueen :lol :lol
Honestly, it seems you care more about Rev. than I do, or most people on these boards. Except your opinion is negative, not positive. I dunno, it's just ironic because you seem to be more obsessed with it than us "fanboys"
For people like Pimpwerx, you could always think of the Revolution as Nintendo's next console that will have a traditional, WaveBird-esque controller, and forget about the remote completely. You know, because Nintendo IS giving you that option :lol
My only real concern is whether or not developers will gamble on the Revolution. I really doubt it. No matter what certain figures say, like Kojima, etc., I don't think *they* are the ones who get to pick their budget for titles.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a quirky little title from one of them on the Revolution at all. However, I really doubt we'll be seeing that many blockbusters from them all the same. Only time will tell, but right now, other than Nintendo I don't see many developers creating titles that say use the Nunchaku configuration...most will rely on the shell controller, maybe with some added remote functionality.
EDIT: Just read your last post Pimpwerx. You're such a fucking dramaqueen :lol :lol
Honestly, it seems you care more about Rev. than I do, or most people on these boards. Except your opinion is negative, not positive. I dunno, it's just ironic because you seem to be more obsessed with it than us "fanboys"
Pimpwerx said:
Your preaching to the choir man. Especially at this site. You think that many people here are looking to this thing to replace ALL their gaming needs? People here are probably just excited to see what games Nintendo will make, and they'll probably buy a PS3 as well for all the games that won't work as well on the Revolution.
Pimpwerx said:
Noone is 'rabidly' defending it. I also don't own stock in anyone, and if Nintendo decided they were quitting the industry altogether today, I'd be dissapointed- and move on. I have no emotional connection to the company. Is it , just possible, that people are open to trying something new? As opposed to 'being in denial'? What the hell is there to be in denial about? I don't expect Nintendo to have the highest marketshare. I also don't have an emotional investment in them, as you seem to. I'm just interested as this is giving us, the user, a new interface. How it affects Nintendo, who the hell knows. I'm not expecting my 3rd party fix out of Nintendo. Noone in their right mind does, and as soon as you accept that, it will be fine. But get over your sour grapes and melodrama.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Pimpwerx said:
It is melodramatic. At least from where I'm sitting.
Mark these words and we'll look back on them after a few game announcements (or lack of): Revolution will have more games than Gamecube, more exclusives, new kinds of software and a greater appeal in general.
If they'd pulled out a wavebird with gyro, theres no way in hell some people here (not to mention in the development community) would be as enthusiastic as they are now. The fact that its a drastic change does probably mean they'll lose developers who don't have the imagination to pursue the system. They'll lose developers who can't afford to make games for two different kinds of systems (traditional/revolution), or those developers who simply can't get support from publishers for their Revolution idea. And there's probably Western developers who are interested but can't for the life of them get dev kits because Nintendo are so freaking inept in the West. However, they'll also make gains here. Gains in differentiation, in exclusives, in potential. I think its only a matter of time before publishing starts to get behind Nintendo now and offer support...
With the two alternatives (360/PS3) asking of higher investment and offering only high stakes uncertainty, many small devs will have no alternative aside from portables. Those who, like you, aren't convinced that the controller is a change for the better will continue to think so.... at least until they TRY IT FOR THEMSELVES. I have a strong feeling most people will come around if its as good as those who are giving impressions say it is.
I can't wait til they show it off again and let the media have a go.
Warm Machine
Member
nightez said:
Much like in the IGN article... The controller wand is essentially a 3d point in space. Imagine that onscreen on your TV is a 3d box from a first person perspective.
Now imagine you are in your living room. The chair you are sitting in is essentially the close end of that box on screen and your TV is the far end. Moving the controller toward the TV moves the point in space closer to the far end of the box. Same with moving the controller side to side or up and down will move the point in space the same way (to a predefined limit set by the software).
A game using this system would be something like virtual Jenga for instance. You could pull a jenga piece out of the top of the tower or from the bottom by moving the virtual cursor. In something like Nintendogs for instance you could pick up a dog (using a button) in the far background and pull him towards the near plane. Or pick up something else in the environment and whip it with corresponding physics that would be difficult to get with a standard analogue stick. You'd likely use a button to toggle between things such as grab, slap, pet, etc.
Otherwise you can imagine that the wand represents an virtual onscreen hand attached to a persons body. Using Inverse Kinematics you can move your virtual onscreen hand in all the ways that your real hand could move, limited by the length of the virtual characters' onscreen arm. Take the sword game they alluded to for example. Waving the wand about would swing the sword and then pressing and holding a button on the controller would switch from sword to sheild so now you are running a block command and using your arm to postion the shield in 3d. Sort of like Sega's Star Wars arcade game where you lightsaber fought Vader.
As well, the control can service as a completely 2 dimensional control such as single sight on screen and double as a light gun type control. It could also be used as a drawing pen or paint brush. Where the controller can get complex is when the viewing plane is changed from first person to a side camera on a 3rd person game because the game's plane of view isn't the same as the players plane of view.
These are some of the possibilities I'm seeing. In the end it is a point in space 3 dimensionally or 2 dimensionally. It is likely to work really well for stuff that is first person and stationary in nature such as fishing, drumming, boxing (in Punch Out you didn't move around the ring), cutting etc.
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