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[Shao]

Actually I can imagine a kick-ass beat em up using the stick.

Move around with the analogue.

Lunge back back and forth, left and right with the stick by flicking it.

To attack, flick left right up or down and press a or b for punch or kick respectively. Or maybe hold a first and flick right to do a right jab.

Hold b and flick up to kick upwards. Hold both buttons and flick down to try and grab their legs. Flick up and right to try and grab their right arm. Push forward to try and grab their waist.

Combo: hold a and flick right, left right then up for an uppercut then press b and flick up to juggle.

Hold a and pull back to charge then push forward and release a to unleash a fireball.

Bit like Tekken innit. Only no more stupid d-pad stuff.

 

[norinrad21]

Tip: You pull back, swing and hit the ball. It's difficult but you'll get there eventually.

Ruthless :lol :lol :lol

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

Then please tell me where I am wrong. Please tell me what they really showed and just how these games will be or tell me how anything revolutionary in terms of gameplay was invented that didn't already exist in one way or another.

I never said you were wrong. I just said your mind is boring.

I'm pretty sure nintendo is gonna use the tech to come up with new "genres". Most third parties will half ass it, and use it the way you mentioned, aka uncreativity. Controlling movements already possible with a "classical" controller.

We've been able to manipulate objects in 3d games for a while. The difference now is that you can do it from a single manipulation object. Before it was 2d controls with a double usage for the third dimensions. I see this as reviving the "2d" ( :lol yes, yes, the irony), feeling of games, where it was actual skill getting you through the game.

 

[Calidor]

btw, we are missing someone:

:lol

 

[Dragona Akehi]

And he was right. I don't see why you're laughing.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

On the other hand, what if I don't know the everyday movements that correspond to the action in a particular game? For example, I enjoy golf games, particularly the timing-based ones that use a swing meter. However, I don't golf at all IRL. I enjoy the videogame versions of the sport because they let me come at it from a gaming angle, with a gamepad. A golf game that required me to actually swing a club at a virtual ball would be a lot more awkward for me, because I don't have the relevant real-life movements internalized the way a real golfer would. Do you see what I'm getting at here?

I see, it's that you want to play games based on timing, and now say a golf game, based on golf skills. =)


I'd say for a large percentage of games, the "skill" of the game comes from timing, and nothing more.

 

[norinrad21]

Its already been established in another thread that Jonny was right all along. Fishie and Teddman were the bogus guys...ie full of shit

 

[blackadde]

Can't golf? Er, then just learn? Lots of people including myself already switch between d-pad, analog stick, flight stick, arcade joystick, mouse & keyboard, etc.

80% of the criticism : "All this time I spent acclimatizing myself to a control pad and ... "

If the implementation ends up being terrible, then it'll deservedly tank. Sony and MS will fill the void and we can all get on with our lives. If it ends up being an intuitive, fun control scheme then the creative possibilities for games in general expands ... I don't see how the end user (gamer) loses, unless maybe you were really looking forward to a new Mario game with a more traditional control scheme or something.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Wait a second. Did Nintendo confirm you could use the pointer-remote like a regular two handed controller by flipping it horizontal and using the d pad and ab buttons. Just like a standard controller??

The shell is just the more button friendly solution for standard control or is it the only way to get a 2 handed control. (Not the expansions of course)

 

[Tellaerin]

Shouldn't you easily be able to adapt? I mean you've been playing videogames as long as you can remember. There's been many changes since the old days, at 37 you should know what am getting at

Yes, I see what you're getting at. Namely, I see that you're busting my balls for no good reason. I was pointing out to the other poster that my earlier remark wasn't 'doublethink', because a long-time gamer has skills with a controller that allow him to perform actions in a game with a minimum level of competence, even if he isn't skilled in the same sport/activity in real life. A non-golfer is going to be at a disadvantage in a golf game that makes you pantomime swinging a club to hit the ball, and one that uses more conventional controls is probably going to be more accessible to the guy who doesn't golf in real life, but does play games regularly. With this thing, it sounds like in order to play the corresponding games halfway decently, I'd effectively be taking up tennis, golf, skeet shooting, etc., as hobbies. It sounds like a much bigger time investment would be required for the person who (like me) doesn't already have the appropriate physical skills IRL that he/she can readily translate to the wand. But instead of talking about any of this, it seems you'd rather take personal potshots at me over my (supposed) lack of adaptability.

Tip: You pull back, swing and hit the ball. It's difficult but you'll get there eventually.

Everyone's a comedian.

Why should I have to, and why should I--as a long-time gamer and a non-golfer IRL--find it any more fun than conventional golf games? What is the advantage to this for someone who already knows how to play videogames? That's the direction I'm coming at this from.

Not everyone who's going to be using this wand will be some newbie who finds a normal controller cryptic and frightening. Yet despite my having asked this several times, nobody seems to have an answer. Even the positives I've heard have corresponding drawbacks, which everyone seems strangely reluctant to talk about. Like using the wand as a 3D mouse for FPS's--'oh, it's so accurate!' Has anyone stopped to think about the fact that there's no 'rest position' for it yet? With a mouse, when you're not shifting your POV, you can just rest your hand on it and still be guaranteed that you're going to remain facing in the same direction.

With the wand, it sounds like you'd have to try to hold it in the air in roughly the same spot in order to keep your POV relatively stable. Just as an experiment, go pick up your TV remote and see how long you can hold it up in roughly the same spot, without letting it droop or shift. To make things more interesting, try talking to somebody in the same room while doing this, and try to avoid making any superfluous hand or body gestures so as not to throw off the position of the wand.

To me, that sounds like a major pain in the ass, more than offsetting whatever speed or accuracy benefits using the wand might confer. I can possibly envision it being used in short bursts in tandem with a more conventional control scheme, but not as the primary input method over an extended period. (For example, I can imagine a 'Snowball Wars' game - at the beginning of each round, teams have 30 seconds or so to assemble their snow forts by 'picking up' and stacking snow blocks from a gods'-eye perspective using the wand. Then the game switches to a conventional FPS view, and you roam around with the analog to move and strafe, and maybe make throwing motions to throw snowballs at the other team or something. As long as it doesn't involve trying to keep the wand in a level, fixed position for an extended period, it could be doable.)

 

[blackadde]

Not everyone who's going to be using this wand will be some newbie who finds a normal controller cryptic and frightening.

Do you find swinging a real golf club cryptic and frightening?

 

[snaildog]

Wait a second. Did Nintendo confirm you could use the pointer-remote like a regular two handed controller by flipping it horizontal and using the d pad and ab buttons. Just like a standard controller??

Nope, there'll be a huge Japanese man outside your door ready to break your thumbs if you try to do that.

 

[Tellaerin]

Do you find swinging a real golf club cryptic and frightening?

No, but that wasn't my point. The question is, is playing a game where I'm pretending to swing a golf club going to come more naturally to me as one I can play with a regular gamepad. In my case, the answer is 'no', because while I have experience with gamepads, I have none with golf clubs. In that respect, I'm the exact opposite of the non-gamers Nintendo's trying to attract with this thing. Is the idea that someone who's a long-time gamer could find this thing less natural than what he already knows really so inconceivable to you?

 

[norinrad21]

You can still play Tiger Woods golf for the GC on the Rev using the GC controller.

 

[Shao]

Tellaerin - you're looking at the whole thing wrong. Don't think of the stick as a way to get your arm into the game. Even with more traditional games like golf, the stick would not be used to simulate a golf swing - that would be silly and probably clumsy.

However it will be very useful in replacing certain button presses. Instead of a power bar where you time it right, you have to swing your stick. Perhaps this controls power as in real golf or perhaps you have to match the swing to an on-screen prompt.

In Tennis you dont have to aim with your stick and hit. You replace the usual button presses with different swings of the stick. Example, you rin around as normal with analogue, and aim as usual. But instead of a button for lob, you simply flick the stick up say 1 inch or however high you want to hit it. Doing a little backhand could be interpreted into the game. I'm talking about movements which don't extend beyond a few inches or cms.

Other areas of improvement could be flying games or aiming the gun in Resi 4. As for holding the stick in one place for FPS - I dont think so. More like you aim it at one place. I could walk around the room and still be aiming it at the middle of the screen. I could sit down and point it at the middle. I could rest my arm anywhere and aim freely by moving my wrist.

Seriously think before you throw a wobbly.

 

[Fuzzy]

Not everyone who's going to be using this wand will be some newbie who finds a normal controller cryptic and frightening. Yet despite my having asked this several times, nobody seems to have an answer. Even the positives I've heard have corresponding drawbacks, which everyone seems strangely reluctant to talk about. Like using the wand as a 3D mouse for FPS's--'oh, it's so accurate!' Has anyone stopped to think about the fact that there's no 'rest position' for it yet? With a mouse, when you're not shifting your POV, you can just rest your hand on it and still be guaranteed that you're going to remain facing in the same direction.

With the wand, it sounds like you'd have to try to hold it in the air in roughly the same spot in order to keep your POV relatively stable. Just as an experiment, go pick up your TV remote and see how long you can hold it up in roughly the same spot, without letting it droop or shift. To make things more interesting, try talking to somebody in the same room while doing this, and try to avoid making any superfluous hand or body gestures so as not to throw off the position of the wand.

To me, that sounds like a major pain in the ass, more than offsetting whatever speed or accuracy benefits using the wand might confer. I can possibly envision it being used in short bursts in tandem with a more conventional control scheme, but not as the primary input method over an extended period. (For example, I can imagine a 'Snowball Wars' game - at the beginning of each round, teams have 30 seconds or so to assemble their snow forts by 'picking up' and stacking snow blocks from a gods'-eye perspective using the wand. Then the game switches to a conventional FPS view, and you roam around with the analog to move and strafe, and maybe make throwing motions to throw snowballs at the other team or something. As long as it doesn't involve trying to keep the wand in a level, fixed position for an extended period, it could be doable.)

...

At first, I was standing up and swinging my hand all around to aim - and my arms got really tired really quick. But once I sat down and relaxed,resting my hands on my leg s as I would with a normal controller, everything clicked. It wasn't perfect yet - the Revolution controller functionality had just been added recently and wasn't bug tested or polished, so every so often the view would "spaz out" for a couple seconds - but it was enough to get me excited.

Source: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143782

 

[Ultra Magnanimous]

No, but that wasn't my point. The question is, is playing a game where I'm pretending to swing a golf club going to come more naturally to me as one I can play with a regular gamepad. In my case, the answer is 'no', because while I have experience with gamepads, I have none with golf clubs. In that respect, I'm the exact opposite of the non-gamers Nintendo's trying to attract with this thing. Is the idea that someone who's a long-time gamer could find this thing less natural than what he already knows really so inconceivable to you?

You're mistaking the need for a golf club swing like movement with having the need to have the technique of a golf player. All you'll need to do is move the controller from right to left (or vice versa if you are left handed) and press a button. You can already do this without learning any new skills... go on give it a go.

This control method is just as much an abstraction of a golf swing as depressing a button but potentially more intuitive, interactive and FUN.

Edit: Of cource this is all academic as who's says EA or whom ever will require you to do the whole golf swing or soemthing analagous to control they're game. The could just as well use the wand to control power of the swing or something.

 

[PkunkFury]

Sorry, there are so many posts/threads about the revolution and TGS that it would take all day to read them all. I'm wodnering did anybody who posts on GAF actually use the revolution controller? I saw a lot of positive impretions from our GAF Japan group who were at TGS, but none of them indicated that they actually got to use the controller.

I'm impressed by those impressions posted on 3DRealms, but I wonder about the source. It'd be great if one of our own posters had actual info on how well the trackng works.

 

[blackadde]

No, but that wasn't my point. The question is, is playing a game where I'm pretending to swing a golf club going to come more naturally to me as one I can play with a regular gamepad. In my case, the answer is 'no', because while I have experience with gamepads, I have none with golf clubs. In that respect, I'm the exact opposite of the non-gamers Nintendo's trying to attract with this thing. Is the idea that someone who's a long-time gamer could find this thing less natural than what he already knows really so inconceivable to you?

Yeah. Why are you so afraid of learning something new?

I used to play fighters on pads because that's what I grew up with. Eventually, I bought an arcade stick and spend a while re-training my brain to play with my wrist rather than my thumb, and suddenly (whoa) the experience is intensified tenfold. Same thing with force-feedback flight sticks (why is it making it harder for me to move?!) and mice (how am I supposed to be precise with this?!).

relevant edit: It's not like Nintendo is forcing the industry to adapt this for *everything*. I just think it's worth keeping an open mind for alternative ways of interaction, instead of dismissing it out of hand as 'I'm not used to this, go away!'. It feels reactionary.

 

[ThunderEmperor]

Its already been established in another thread that Jonny was right all along. Fishie and Teddman were the bogus guys...ie full of shit

p.s sorry to ask, i wasn't aroud then, but what were Jonny's full list of claims. thanks

 

[AndoCalrissian]

No, but that wasn't my point. The question is, is playing a game where I'm pretending to swing a golf club going to come more naturally to me as one I can play with a regular gamepad. In my case, the answer is 'no', because while I have experience with gamepads, I have none with golf clubs. In that respect, I'm the exact opposite of the non-gamers Nintendo's trying to attract with this thing. Is the idea that someone who's a long-time gamer could find this thing less natural than what he already knows really so inconceivable to you?

First of all, I'm sure many companies will include more than one control configuration. Secondly, while swinging a controller like a golf club may frighten you because you have no experience with that, it may entice golfers because now they can have cheap, convenient golf in a small area. Or tennis players. Or football players. Or Baseball players. And it might just entice the people who have never tried those sports (even if they play them on consoles), to try that control scheme and feel what its like without paying money for course time, or equipment, or without making a fool of themselves in public.

 

[BorkBork]

No, but that wasn't my point. The question is, is playing a game where I'm pretending to swing a golf club going to come more naturally to me as one I can play with a regular gamepad. In my case, the answer is 'no', because while I have experience with gamepads, I have none with golf clubs. In that respect, I'm the exact opposite of the non-gamers Nintendo's trying to attract with this thing. Is the idea that someone who's a long-time gamer could find this thing less natural than what he already knows really so inconceivable to you?

I used to play Quake with the keyboard alone, before a friend showed me the use of the mouse/keyboard combination. I resisted the change at first, but once I got familiar with it, it became a lot more intuitive. Are you saying that since you have no experience with the new control method, it will necessarily be inferior to the current controller scheme and will reject it altogether without a chance to at least test it out? It seems kind of narrow minded IMO.

 

[TeTr1C]

I wish it was April Fools day.



Again, what the fuck is that?

 

[Ultra Magnanimous]

I wish it was April Fools day.



Again, what the fuck is that?

An onion.

 

[Baron Aloha]

I know Nintendo is supposed to be talking about their DS/Rev WiFi connection next month but have they said when they will have more news specifically about the Rev controller or the games? Are they going into hiding until E3?

 

[Shaheed79]

Why are you guys under the impression that you will have to learn these ridiculously complex motions to play games we have been playing for years? I garuntee you that they are not trying to make gaming more difficult for us their only trying to provide another platform for us to experience new types of games and if the control method is better for existing games then they will use it or at least provide that option. If they feel the analog is more intuitive for a game then they will use it, simple as that. These discussions about mastering golf swings and such are just ridiculous and pointless.

 

[Shaheed79]

This doesn't address his concern. You'd still have to slightly cock your hand up to get the effect desired.

I tried his suggested experiment with my remote and it seriously became uncomfortable VERY fast. If you could fix it by resting it on your lap, maybe that would work. I know I don't usually play games where I could do that....usually have my legs up on the couch or am sitting sideways on a chair almost....I dunno. Maybe it'll work.


EDIT: I tried it on my lap and it was better. Still....it's almost like pointing into my leg now. Haha. Silly controller!

The 1up editor said the control was better than his preferred mouse and keyboard setup he was geniunely excited yet people still try to draw negatives. You can't just grab your TV and VCR remote and pretend like you know what it is he experienced with the Rev controller especially since his impressions were positive.

 

[Tellaerin]

Yeah. Why are you so afraid of learning something new?

As I've said before, I don't relish the thought of 'becoming a noob again'. Who wants to go back to the childhood days of having to consciously think about operating the controller, of repeated deaths because you knew what you wanted your character to do but couldn't get him to do it, and all the frustration that went with it? Games became fun for me once I got past that clumsy initial phase, when I hit the point where the controls were transparent to me, when there was no conscious barrier between what I wanted to make happen and what my hands were doing.

Unfortunately, I'm older now, and I'm not as confident in my ability to learn a totally new set of physical skills to play games to the level of the ones I know now. I realize that this device is supposed to be easy and fun for people with no gaming skills to use, but I foresee a lot of potential frustration if I'm forced to interact with a game through the wand and find myself dying in places where I'd've had no trouble with a more familiar controller. (I imagine something like playing Super Mario DS with the touchscreen, and feeling that same irritation--'I know I'm a better player than this! I wouldn't be having these problems if I only had a real analog stick right now! This sucks!' Frustration, plain and simple.)

If I'm 'afraid' of anything (and I think some of you are throwing that word around a little too liberally), it's that I'll turn out to hate/be totally, irredeemably unskilled with the wand, and everyone will end up adopting it as the new standard. I'm not afraid of trying a new piece of hardware. I am apprehensive at the thought of the industry collectively turning in a direction that'll leave me with nothing new that I'd want to play.

relevant edit: It's not like Nintendo is forcing the industry to adapt this for *everything*. I just think it's worth keeping an open mind for alternative ways of interaction, instead of dismissing it out of hand as 'I'm not used to this, go away!'. It feels reactionary.

I think it's more of a reaction to the people in this thread screaming, 'HEY! THIS IS THE FUTURE! EVERYONE'S GONNA STEAL THIS AND ALL THE OLD CONTROL MECHANISMS ARE GOING TO BE OBSOLETE OVERNIGHT! VIVA LA REVOLUTION!' That, combined with my misgivings above, has probably made me overreact a bit. It's not like I'm not going to try it--I'm buying a Revolution, and I'm sure I'll mess with the wand functionality even if I end up only using the thing for retrogaming in the end. I'm just concerned that in the mad dash to embrace the new, more conventional controls will end up falling by the wayside, leaving me thoroughly screwed if it turns out I don't like the alternative. (I've been looking forward to a new Mario, Zelda, and Metroid on Rev, and I'd really hate it if I was forced to pass on them because I didn't like Nintendo's choice of control schemes. =/ )

 

[Gahiggidy]

Learning new skills helps prevent Alzheimer's.

 

[Shao]

This doesn't address his concern. You'd still have to slightly cock your hand up to get the effect desired.

I tried his suggested experiment with my remote and it seriously became uncomfortable VERY fast. If you could fix it by resting it on your lap, maybe that would work. I know I don't usually play games where I could do that....usually have my legs up on the couch or am sitting sideways on a chair almost....I dunno. Maybe it'll work.


EDIT: I tried it on my lap and it was better. Still....it's almost like pointing into my leg now. Haha. Silly controller!

Try this experiment, get a torch and shine it at the screen for as long as you want. Shine it anywhere on screen. Whirl it around like you would if you were playing tennis or golf games.

All it takes is wrist movement. You could rest it on your belly and aim. You can rest your entire arm somewhere and just wriggle your hand slightly and you could cover the whole screen. Not to mention you can position yourself better now that you have some freedom between hands.

 

[ge-man]

Learning new skills helps prevent Alzheimer's.

:lol

Don't ever change Gahiggidy.

 

[Fuzzy]

So because one person said one positive thing (admittedly very positive) all "negatives" must not be "drawn"? What if someone comes out and says the thing is a piece of shit and it is going to be a huge flaming disaster. Should we stop drawing positives?

I understand what you're saying but so far the only people who have said it was a piece of shit are the ones who haven't touched it, everyone who has used it has loved it. The worst thing I've read from someone who has used it is that it's still not polished and that makes me excited about it.

 

[Error]

the only negative reaction so far has been from Bungie... yeah Bungie :lol

 

[Shao]

It shouldn't force you to hold your hand out at all, unless you chose to. Sure some games might lead to more strenuous activities than we're used to like pushing forward alot or drawing magic spells on screen but for the most part, it should be like shining a torch.

They shouldv'e made it penis-shaped and likened the thing to directing your wee cleanly into the toilet bowl. Something everyone is used to and appeals to women.

 

[ThunderEmperor]

One thing that makes ME nervous is that people are judging it without real games. The only thing I think you could actually consider a full game was Metroid Prime, and that was positive. However, it is worth noting is that everyone does expect FPS to do well on the system. So that's okay.

But how would you play Smash Brothers with it? Everyone is saying it's great and mouse like, but....with a mouse you have a keyboard....just a little worried.

can someone pleas etell me or give me a list of jonny nighttrains claims. pleaseeeeeee

 

[ThunderEmperor]

someone posted this on the 3drealm boards. man i can't wait for the fun. woohoo

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Fuzzy]

But how would you play Smash Brothers with it? Everyone is saying it's great and mouse like, but....with a mouse you have a keyboard....just a little worried.

Plug the controller into the classic controller shell?

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

When do you think they'll let people know what kinda tech their using for this? Launch day...?

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

someone posted this on the 3drealm boards. man i can't wait for the fun. woohoo

:lol :lol :lol

Wave race would actually lend itself to using the conrtoller like this: | orienting it with the jetski, since leaning would be more appropriate than turning the wheel. =)

 

[Undeniably Me]

As I've said before, I don't relish the thought of 'becoming a noob again'. Who wants to go back to the childhood days of having to consciously think about operating the controller, of repeated deaths because you knew what you wanted your character to do but couldn't get him to do it, and all the frustration that went with it? Games became fun for me once I got past that clumsy initial phase, when I hit the point where the controls were transparent to me, when there was no conscious barrier between what I wanted to make happen and what my hands were doing.

Unfortunately, I'm older now, and I'm not as confident in my ability to learn a totally new set of physical skills to play games to the level of the ones I know now. I realize that this device is supposed to be easy and fun for people with no gaming skills to use, but I foresee a lot of potential frustration if I'm forced to interact with a game through the wand and find myself dying in places where I'd've had no trouble with a more familiar controller. (I imagine something like playing Super Mario DS with the touchscreen, and feeling that same irritation--'I know I'm a better player than this! I wouldn't be having these problems if I only had a real analog stick right now! This sucks!' Frustration, plain and simple.)

I think you're making the situation out to be worse than it really is. The entire point of this controller is to simplify the play experience, while offering a unique twist. Obviously people are entitled to their own opinions and that's fine, but I personally feel that it's exciting to go ahead and explore a new method of doing something you enjoy. Especially when it's as intuitive as the Revolution controller appears to be. Traditional controllers are great, but I remember how it felt when I picked up a Nintendo controller for the first time as a kid and I don't mind re-visiting that kind of experience.

 

[MutFox]

Learning new skills helps prevent Alzheimer's.

Can't teach an Old Dog new Tricks...

 

[Polari]

I've been following this thread for the last few days and I've got to say, for the most part, it's pretty shameful.

Personally I love the Revolution controller - it looks to be intuitive, fun and with the shell, the perfect compromise.

To those who are saying the shell is a cop-out, I believe you're wrong. A stick with a two buttons and a claw with another two is going to be a poor control scheme for many genres. Tink of it this way, in the next Mario game Nintendo may decide to keep most of the control scheme from Sunshine but with one major exception: the camera will be controlled by movement instead of the C-stick, which should be much more intuitive to both gaming veterans and newcomers. The shell is a good thing, it encourages innovation more than anything else. If Nintendo doesn't pack it in, making it a standard, it will be potentially a fatally stupid move.

To those who are whining about it being different and having to learn how to play games all over again: grow up. It's not like that and I believe you do secretly know it. The afore-mentioned shell is there as a compromise to you and for seasoned gamers I don't see how this is anything but incredibly exciting. I'm excited, that's for sure.

I thought Nintendo was done when it came to consoles, and I thought the much-hyped Revolution controller would be an awkward, superficial change like the DS's two screens/touch screen. Now I'm not so sure. It's clear why Peter Molyneaux was so excited, this is an incredible innovation. There's no way that Microsoft and Sony won't be "borrowing" this next time around (if not sooner), regardless of the outcome of this next generation. Unlike the DS, it is clearly the logical path of progression, and in my view you're a fool if you don't see it.

 

[xexex]

I am not even a Nintendo fan (and for the most part, dislike Nintendo and most of its games) yet, I am tremendously enthusiastic about Revolution's control scheme and will be the first in my subdivision to own at least one system.

 

[Diffense]

I've warmed up to the shell too.

From the Jim Merrick Interview:

http://www.gamesradar.com/news/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=37344&subsectionid=2504

The current controller design does work reasonably well for certain types of game - we're not going to throw it all out, but we wanted a fresh start and a fresh way of thinking to bring new consumers to the console.

It's effectively a shell like a standard controller with a hole in it and you slot in the freehand controller. So for games that are well suited for a traditional style controller, well, there you are.

The classic controller is important for us for our virtual console games. When I'm playing my favourite game - the N64 version of Goldeneye - it's built for that kind of controller.

For some games it could make sense to combine motion sensing with a traditional controller. Indeed, one of the problems in third person action games is that you have to control the aim and movement of the character as well as the camera. It is often impossible to do all three at once and the result is the often compromise of settling with poor camera AI. Splitting the task between a dual analog controller (for movement and aim) and motion sensitivity (to control zoom and orientation of the camera) may actually be workable. This would clearly not be a newcomer's genre though!

 

[Warm Machine]

how do you know, i never got to claibrate my DS and it works fine for everyone who has used it. so exlain form that stand point.

Obviously you don't have to calibrate a DS because the touch screen has a built in limit and that is it's screen size which was predefined upon manufacturing. Your living room and tv screen size, and it's height from the floor has no predefined limit that the machine can understand. As far as the Rev and the wand knows your living room is 10' x 10' and you sit 5' from the TV. Not everyone's game play area will be the same nor will they be the same height hence the likely calibration to figure out just where the likely position of the player is going to be the majority of the time and where they are able to travel around that 3 dimensional volume if they have to.

There are also likely going to be motion filters so that regular subconsious ambient movements of the control will not be registered as movement. Just like finding the dead zone on an analogue stick so tiny movements don't throw you off.

Another little gameplay example may be something like the sniper mode in Metal Gear where the machine dictated how unsteady you were with the rifle and you had to take the calming drugs to limit how much the sight moved. Now, with something like this the aim is wholly dictated by the player's skill with the wand itself and any powerup style calming drug the character takes changes the software ambient motion filter on the wand.

The control has lots of cool little applications, my major beef with it still lies with the wand itself. Fuck the shell, they could have easily designed the controller in a similar aesthetic fashion yet retained the same level of regular game control that a standard pad gives. I think their prime focus was making the wand not look scary to people who don't play games and limiting its button count but in doing so I think they sacrificed the core functionality that a regular pad gives...it isn't even worth arguing that that isn't what they did as they admit to this by inventing the attachments such as the analogue control and the shell itself to compensate for the loss.

I can see the majority of developers using the wand as a replacement for drum sticks, maracas, lightguns, mice, etc. Of course we'll see other games where devs use the 3D but in a more gimmicky fashion, like for instance a board game / card game where you pick up and move the pieces in 3d. I'm not saying this is all you are going to see on the machine throughout its life...but like most devs initial approach to DS and its touch screen they are not going to take full advantage of what it has to offer.

It has lots of cool applications but if you think about it practically there isn't much that the control really offers that we haven't seen before or attempted using a traditional work around...just that the wand makes these things easier to do and less abstracted.

There isn't anything negative in what I'm saying besides the sacrific in core control the wand has and I don't have a hate on, I'm just not buying into this controller creating a whole new wave of games we've never seen before. You are likely going to see a lot of the same sorts of games and experiences you've had previously but with a new method of handling the play control for them. Deal with it politely.

 

[civilstrife]

I've been following this thread for the last few days and I've got to say, for the most part, it's pretty shameful.

Personally I love the Revolution controller - it looks to be intuitive, fun and with the shell, the perfect compromise.

To those who are saying the shell is a cop-out, I believe you're wrong. A stick with a two buttons and a claw with another two is going to be a poor control scheme for many genres. Tink of it this way, in the next Mario game Nintendo may decide to keep most of the control scheme from Sunshine but with one major exception: the camera will be controlled by movement instead of the C-stick, which should be much more intuitive to both gaming veterans and newcomers. The shell is a good thing, it encourages innovation more than anything else. If Nintendo doesn't pack it in, making it a standard, it will be potentially a fatally stupid move.

To those who are whining about it being different and having to learn how to play games all over again: grow up. It's not like that and I believe you do secretly know it. The afore-mentioned shell is there as a compromise to you and for seasoned gamers I don't see how this is anything but incredibly exciting. I'm excited, that's for sure.

I thought Nintendo was done when it came to consoles, and I thought the much-hyped Revolution controller would be an awkward, superficial change like the DS's two screens/touch screen. Now I'm not so sure. It's clear why Peter Molyneaux was so excited, this is an incredible innovation. There's no way that Microsoft and Sony won't be "borrowing" this next time around (if not sooner), regardless of the outcome of this next generation. Unlike the DS, it is clearly the logical path of progression, and in my view you're a fool if you don't see it.

Quoted for Truth.

 

[Diffense]

You are likely going to see a lot of the same sorts of games and experiences you've had previously but with a new method of handling the play control for them. Deal with it politely.

That's a big difference actually. Mario Sunshine would have been a whole different play experience if FLUDD could have been controlled by something like the remote.

Basically there are things that wouldn't necessarily have been FUN with an ordinary controller so they weren't done. It's not the case that such things wouldn't have been possible.

For example, dancing games often come with mats, music games with drums, becuase they are more fun played that way. It's obviously possible to make dancing games work with ordinary controllers but that's less engaging. A version of Nintendogs could be made for PSP but the ability to touch your virtual pet is a large part of the game's charm on the DS platform. The simple, intuituve control is the reason why Brain Training on DS is likely to be more fun than the equaivalent on PSP.

So yes, I think this controller will give rise to some unconventional ideas (cooking games anyone) becuase it'll be possible to make them fun and engaging.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

someone posted this on the 3drealm boards. man i can't wait for the fun. woohoo

:lol :lol :lol

Why exactly is the turning picture shown with the controller tilting backwards? I would imagine it would be done through twisting the controller left or right, or by turning it left or right:

[] = top of controller

\\ = left turn

// = right turn

Tilting it forward or back should result in the same actions on the previous games, i.e. diving or tricks.

 

[jgkspsx]

Why exactly is the turning picture shown with the controller tilting backwards?

It's just like the jetski's handlebars. You hold it with both hands, turn right and left to turn right and left, and pull it up and towards you to pull it up. It's brilliant

 

[evilromero]

That's a big difference actually. Mario Sunshine would have been a whole different play experience if FLUDD could have been controlled by something like the remote.

Basically there are things that wouldn't necessarily have been FUN with an ordinary controller so they weren't done. It's not the case that such things wouldn't have been possible.

For example, dancing games often come with mats, music games with drums, becuase they are more fun played that way. It's obviously possible to make dancing games work with ordinary controllers but that's less engaging. A version of Nintendogs could be made for PSP but the ability to touch your virtual pet is a large part of the game's charm on the DS platform. The simple, intuituve control is the reason why Brain Training on DS is likely to be more fun than the equaivalent on PSP.

So yes, I think this controller will give rise to some unconventional ideas (cooking games anyone) becuase it'll be possible to make them fun and engaging.

I just don't like the idea of playing Mario and not having complete and precise control of his movements. Mario Sunshine refined the series so much. Will I have to play holding the analog attachment in my left hand while I make him jump and punch with the movement of my right? It would work, but not nearly as intuitively as a standard Cube controller. I have no doubt the next Mario will look and feel amazing. Like a lucid dream. But I really want the series to retain its tight controls.