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[rawk]

I wanna play Wind Waker on this system, using the controller as the baton.

Also, Operation! Revolution, which could work exactly like the board game. No, wait, I could just play the board game. Maybe something like Trauma Center.

 

[rawk]

I just don't like the idea of playing Mario and not having complete and precise control of his movements. Mario Sunshine refined the series so much. Will I have to play holding the analog attachment in my left hand while I make him jump and punch with the movement of my right? It would work, but not nearly as intuitively as a standard Cube controller. I have no doubt the next Mario will look and feel amazing. Like a lucid dream. But I really want the series to retain its tight controls.

I bet the next Mario will use the wand to move Mario, A to jump, and B to punch/butt stomp/run. It'd be a good way to train people to use the new controller.

 

[evilromero]

I wanna play Wind Waker on this system, using the controller as the baton.

Also, Operation! Revolution, which could work exactly like the board game. No, wait, I could just play the board game. Maybe something like Trauma Center.

See this is what I don't get. I can understand wanting to wave the controller around like a baton but let's not forget that there is a GAME that is built around that baton wavin'. Would you move link around using the left analog while slashing his sword around? I dunno if that'd work well. It would work, but the problem is with the length of the cord between the two. It might constrict player's movement.

I see this controller being ideal for Wario Ware and Mario Party, as well as all-new titles built around the device, but not the traditional titles.

 

[evilromero]

I bet the next Mario will use the wand to move Mario, A to jump, and B to punch/butt stomp/run. It'd be a good way to train people to use the new controller.

Okay, how in the HELL will Mario move using the wand? You only have a limited amount of space to move around your room. The only way would be to use the analog attachment and make him jump/punch/whatever using the remote controller.

 

[rawk]

Okay, how in the HELL will Mario move using the wand? You only have a limited amount of space to move around your room. The only way would be to use the analog attachment and make him jump/punch/whatever using the remote controller.

I imagine it would work like Mario 64 Ds. Just sorta point where you want Mario to go. I dunno -- I'm no game designer. They could also have the Mario game control with the controller in the horizontal NES layout, with the motion sensor doing who knows what.

I'm just saying, whatever big game they launch with, I'd expect it to use the main controller wand and nothing else. Not analog attachment, no classic shell, or what have you. The big launch game is when you train people to use the new controller. Not doing that would be like if Mario 64 had used the D-pad on the N64 controller instead of the analog stick.

Or you could just hold the controller vertically and move it around like a huge joystick. If that's easier to envision.

 

[rawk]

I want someone to put out a game based around playing songs on some sort of whistle, with a little mouthpiece add-on for the controller. Press a,b,A,B and the d-pad to change the notes, a-la any sort of horn/brass/woodwind thing. Learn to play Jethro Tull flute solos in FLUTE FLUTE REVOLUTION. Jazz flute!

edit: someone needs to photoshop Ron Burgandy playing Jazz Flute Revolution for me.

 

[Tellaerin]

Missed this one in the rush earlier, but there were some things said that I felt were worth addressing, so here's my (belated) response:

Besides, if you want to play the same way you've been playing for twenty years, then why are you buying a new console?

I'm sure some of the Nintendo fans in this thread might agree with that sentiment, but personally, I think it's absurd.

I buy new consoles to play new games. Apparently for some of you, new games aren't worth playing on their own merits, and must also make the player play bongos, doodle, tilt the controller, blow into a microphone, or wave around a sensor wand in order to be considered 'good'. That's the only reason I can see for the reactions I get whenever I say I may not like controlling games this way (or at least not as much as I do with a conventional controller).

Progress isn't a bad thing, but I'm still not convinced that this is a step forward. It may just be a step sideways. For all the talk about 'possibilities', I really haven't heard much that didn't strike me as gimmicky in an Activator/U-Force kind of way yet. There are also unanswered questions about how comfortable using the wand vigorously over an extended period is going to be. However, when the time comes for me to sit down and try it firsthand, my misgivings may vanish. Who can say? But for now, my misgivings are real ones, and I still can't get over some of the hostile reactions I've received for being honest enough to air them here. (Though to be fair about it, some of you have taken the time to make good points rather than being nasty or derisive, and to you guys and gals, I say: Thanks.)

Speaking of which, the one game that seems to keep being mentioned as an example of what the Rev controller can't be used for is Street Fighter, which seems a perfect representation of your arguments. It's a franchise that's seen a thousand different iterations, without a single dramatic change between any of them, and to most people, it's a series that peaked nearly a decade and a half ago on the SNES. If this is what you want to emulate on your new console, then forget the new console and go back to playing the SNES. I really don't see the point in having new generations of hardware if you're playing the same games as you were the last generation.

'Guilty Gear, motherfucker! Do you speak it?' Or KOF, Garou: MotW, Street Fighter 3... The point is, the genre's hardly dead (though you wouldn't know it from looking at the N64 and GC libraries), and it's one I happen to like. Since it's apparently not one that you care about, I get the impression that you believe it'd be perfectly fine if developers stopped creating those kinds of games altogether. Genre fans ought to go back to playing fighters from earlier generations so that the industry can concentrate on developing games that focus on waving around the baton in peace. Think maybe you're being a little self-centered there? At least I haven't been suggesting that the wand tank altogether - about the worst I've said is that it'd be nice if it works out for Nintendo, but I don't want to see it become the new standard for every company, if for no other reason that it'll leave me with alternatives if it turns out I don't like it.

And nobody's forcing you to buy a Revolution, but, when you get the chance, please, please give it a go, because not a single person who's tried it has described it as anything but the most intuitive system they've ever used (all of whom were seasoned gamers), and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

As I've said (repeatedly), I have every intention of buying a Revolution, so I'll inevitably come face-to-face with the dreaded wand o' doom sooner or later. So long as there are alternatives to using it in pointer mode for everything, I should be alright even if it turns out I don't like the way it feels, but we'll see.

 

[Diffense]

I just don't like the idea of playing Mario and not having complete and precise control of his movements. Mario Sunshine refined the series so much. Will I have to play holding the analog attachment in my left hand while I make him jump and punch with the movement of my right? It would work, but not nearly as intuitively as a standard Cube controller. I have no doubt the next Mario will look and feel amazing. Like a lucid dream. But I really want the series to retain its tight controls.

I don't know if it wouldn't be intuitive. I remember teaching non-gamers how to play Mario and I distinctly remember them jerking the controller up everytime mario was supposed to jump! In truth, our current control system is probably more unintuitive, it's just that we have become so conditioned to it.

I was thinking up a control scheme but that raises questions about the finer operations of the remote that I don't have the answer to. However, I think I'd be quite comfortable with jerking the remote up to make Mario jump like Nintendo suggested in the controller video.

 

[MrDaravon]

I don't know if it wouldn't be intuitive. I remember teaching non-gamers how to play Mario and I distinctly remember them jerking the controller up everytime mario was supposed to jump! In truth, our current control system is probably more unintuitive, it's just that we have become so conditioned to it.

That's a pretty damn good point. Too bad GAF doesn't believe in logic. :lol

 

[evilromero]

I don't know if it wouldn't be intuitive. I remember teaching non-gamers how to play Mario and I distinctly remember them jerking the controller up everytime mario was supposed to jump! In truth, our current control system is probably more unintuitive, it's just that we have become so conditioned to it.

I was thinking up a control scheme but that raises questions about the finer operations of the remote that I don't have the answer to. However, I think I'd be quite comfortable with jerking the remote up to make Mario jump like Nintendo suggested in the controller video.

That's true. But Mario 64 had the advantage of being one of the first fully 3D games, featuring the worlds most beloved video game icon. People WOULD learn or die.

 

[Tellaerin]

That's a pretty damn good point. Too bad GAF doesn't believe in logic. :lol

Actually, I've been saying that right along, just without the negative connotations, and people are fighting me on it. Gamers have been conditioned to control games in ways that aren't necessarily intuitive to non-gamers, but are second nature for us. Let's see how many more people can ignore that point.

 

[Krowley]

on mario, i had an idea for how it could work, but i don't know if the trigger on the remote is analog or not..

i was thinking that you would hold in the trigger (with analog sensitivity like the xbox.) and that would cause mario to accelerate forward, barely pressing would be a walk while holding it in fully would be a run, then you wave the controller left and right to turn. The camera would stay directly behind him, like a 3rd person game with FPS control. Tilting the controller back would control the pitch of his jumps, so that you could use different kinds of jumping angles (like trying to arc an arrow shot). The A button would jump, and the d pad could be used for secondarey functions (like moving into first person view or unlocking the camera from the behind the back position and relocking it).

there is probably some problem with this but it was the first thought that occured to me.

 

[Diffense]

I think there's some serious potential for 3D platformers to start feeling like their old 2D counterparts. It's a bit ironic, but if the controls are simpler and easier to master the games can be made more challenging and 'twitchy' without getting frustrating.

 

[evilromero]

I think there's some serious potential for 3D platformers to start feeling like their old 2D counterparts. It's a bit ironic, but if the controls are simpler and easier to master the games can be made more challenging and 'twitchy' without getting frustrating.

Yes, but I don't think some of you are considering the inherent difficulties associated with 3D platforming games. It's already difficult to judge space and pinpoint exacting jump placement. Using the Rev Controller might make it even more frustrating for its lack of precise controls, something that your fingers naturally do far better than your elbow and arms.

 

[Spike]

Yes, but I don't think some of you are considering the inherent difficulties associated with 3D platforming games. It's already difficult to judge space and pinpoint exacting jump placement. Using the Rev Controller might make it even more frustrating for its lack of precise controls, something that your fingers naturally do far better than your elbow and arms.

Yes, but I don't think that you are considering that we actually haven't been shown anything!!

How about we wait for an actual goddamned demo from Nintendo showing how this thing will be used before we praise/damn it?

The problem I find, is that alot of the naysayers are looking at the way games are played currently and how that translates to the new controller. Maybe we should think about what inherent changes will be made to these genres so that they fit to the controller.

 

[evilromero]

Yes, but I don't think that you are considering that we actually haven't been shown anything!!

How about we wait for an actual goddamned demo from Nintendo showing how this thing will be used before we praise/damn it?

The problem I find, is that alot of the naysayers are looking at the way games are played currently and how that translates to the new controller. Maybe we should think about what inherent changes will be made to these genres so that they fit to the controller.

I'm hoping Nintendo sheds a bit more light on some of my questions next month when they reveal their Wi-Fi service.

Because the wait is killing me.

 

[Diffense]

Yes, but I don't think some of you are considering the inherent difficulties associated with 3D platforming games. It's already difficult to judge space and pinpoint exacting jump placement. Using the Rev Controller might make it even more frustrating for its lack of precise controls, something that your fingers naturally do far better than your elbow and arms.

I'm not sure why you insist the control will be imprecise. We've been hearing quite the opposite so far. Besides, FPS fans swear by the accuracy of mouse control for aiming and the mouse is controlled primarily by hand/arm motion.

But yes, I'm aware of the inherent difficulty with handling the third dimension in 3D platformers. That's exactly why I'm optimistic now. Seems we're going to be using a device that apparently tracks motion in 3 dimensions to control motion in 3 dimensions. If we use the remote to control Mario and the analog attachment to rotate and zoom the camera around him we might end up with something nice.

Of course, I'm not even 100% sure how that would work. We have limited information and no personal experience with the remote. It's something we'd really have to use to guage its full potential. I guess the only difference between us is that you're more of a pessimist.

Still, I'm pretty sure that if this device is going to work well with anything it's going to work well with Mario. It's always as if Nintendo's new controllers are designed around the system's first mario game.

 

[Mr Gump]

I'm not sure why you insist the control will be imprecise. We've been hearing quite the opposite so far. Besides, FPS fans swear by the accuracy of mouse control for aiming and the mouse is controlled primarily by hand/arm motion.

Yeah but the mouse is on the table so it's perfectly stable and easy to keep in the one spot for however long you want.

Im wondering that if there was a crosshair on the screen to show the rev's controller's ability to track motion just how madly it would shake on screen due to its sensitivity. Keeping the thing fixated on a target would be hard id assume.

 

[Diffense]

Yeah but the mouse is on the table so it's perfectly stable and easy to keep in the one spot for however long you want.

Im wondering that if there was a crosshair on the screen to show the rev's controller's ability to track motion just how madly it would shake on screen due to its sensitivity. Keeping the thing fixated on a target would be hard id assume.

I suppose the game sofware could disregard some motion as irrelevant just like how current games don't necesarily respond to every miniscule shift of an analog stick. Even if the device is sensitive enough to detect it the game doesn't have to act on it. However, I could imagine a minigame in, say, Mario Party that challenges you to keep your hand very still as in an egg and spoon race.

 

[Mike Works]

This thread would probably be 10 pages shorter if there was a picture of the remote inside the GC controller shell with the caption YOU CAN USE THIS THING TOO underneath.

 

[Diffense]

This thread would probably be 10 pages shorter if there was a picture of the remote inside the GC controller shell with the caption YOU CAN USE THIS THING TOO underneath.

No, the 10 pages would be spent complaining that's it can't be a revolution when it looks just like a 'gimmicky' wavebird.

 

[civilstrife]

There's one thing that scares me about the functionality of the controller.
Can it only measure the z axis (distance from the screen) when its pointing directly at it?
It almost seems too good to be true otherwise. If its not just when pointing at the screen, than it would have all the functionality of a motion capture ping pong ball thing.

What I would like to see is a tech demo showing a 3D representation of the controller on screen in a 3d space, moving in complete tandem with the actual physical controller. In any direction/orientation the player puts it in. THAT would convince me. THAT would be a revolution.

 

[GDGF]

Nintendo is certainly on to something. I've been explaining the controller to non gaming types since yesterday, and they all seem excited. They seem to get it.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

It's just like the jetski's handlebars. You hold it with both hands, turn right and left to turn right and left, and pull it up and towards you to pull it up. It's brilliant

Oh, right. I wasn't looking at it properly. The remote might be a tad small for that though.

 

[FirstInHell]

"The Revolution.....It's so baaad."

 

[Gahiggidy]

By the way, did any of the editors who got a hand-on measure the length with a tape measure? Just curious what the exact dimensions are.

 

[Chrono]

I skimmed most of this thread so I don't know if this was mentioned: Would it be possible to make a 3rd person Metroid now - Left analog for movement and the remote for aiming/changing direction samus is facing?

 

[BorkBork]

I skimmed most of this thread so I don't know if this was mentioned: Would it be possible to make a 3rd person Metroid now - Left analog for movement and the remote for aiming/changing direction samus is facing?

Probably, but my guess is that Retro is sticking with the 1st person perspective to at least finish off the Prime Trilogy before tackling a 3rd Metroid.

 

[Skullkid]

I skimmed most of this thread so I don't know if this was mentioned: Would it be possible to make a 3rd person Metroid now - Left analog for movement and the remote for aiming/changing direction samus is facing?

Yes, I was just thinking about that in regards to third person shooters. The controls would rock in Ratchet and Clank, for example. I do like first-person Metroid Prime, though. It's one of my favorites this generation.

 

[GDGF]

I'd like to here some more developer quotes about the controller. I hope we get more soon.

 

[bummyhead]

Yes, I was just thinking about that in regards to third person shooters. The controls would rock in Ratchet and Clank, for example. I do like first-person Metroid Prime, though. It's one of my favorites this generation.

how about a third person Castlevania? analog stick to move, and you could whip enemies by actually flicking your rist in the appropriate direction. Might be the first GOOD 3d castlevania.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Does anyone know if the controller has to actually be facing the screen to work? Not for button presses and such, but for movement. Can the controller detect movement (up, down, left, right, forward, backward, tilt, and rotation) without actually having the sensor pointed at the screen?

I haven't seen a definitive answer on this yet, and if it has to be facing the screen, then this controller is a bit more limited than I believed in the first place. Given that a gyration mouse doesn't require these things, I don't think the Revo controller will, but you never know.

 

[Tellaerin]

how about a third person Castlevania? analog stick to move, and you could whip enemies by actually flicking your rist in the appropriate direction. Might be the first GOOD 3d castlevania.

This is what I meant about people making the controller sound gimmicky. Why would being able to attack in the game by pretending to use a whip (instead of, say, flicking a second analog stick in the direction you want to attack) suddenly make a game good, aside from the 'ooh, it's cool' value? (More importantly, making a sharp whip-cracking motion each and every one of those thousands of times you whip an enemy in an average Castlevania game would be hell on your wrists. RSI's, here we come...)

If developers are going to support this thing, then I want to see them come up with ways to manipulate the game environment that we can't do with a conventional controller. If you're just making hand motions to trigger actions you'd normally perform with a button press or stick movement, then this thing becomes nothing more than a glorified Activator or U-Force. (What can I say? If I'm going to have to learn a new way to play games, I want companies to at least make it worth the effort. )

 

[Error]

This is what I meant about people making the controller sound gimmicky. Why would being able to attack in the game by pretending to use a whip (instead of, say, flicking a second analog stick in the direction you want to attack) suddenly make a game good, aside from the 'ooh, it's cool' value? (More importantly, making a sharp whip-cracking motion each and every one of those thousands of times you whip an enemy in an average Castlevania game would be hell on your wrists. RSI's, here we come...)

that would rock my house. I can finally become a goddamn Belmont, Dracula here I come fear my whip skills! :lol

 

[blackadde]

I would love to see this being hacked to interface with a regular PC. Modelling in C4D would be alot more fun, anyways.

 

[miyuru]

on mario, i had an idea for how it could work, but i don't know if the trigger on the remote is analog or not..

i was thinking that you would hold in the trigger (with analog sensitivity like the xbox.) and that would cause mario to accelerate forward, barely pressing would be a walk while holding it in fully would be a run, then you wave the controller left and right to turn. The camera would stay directly behind him, like a 3rd person game with FPS control. Tilting the controller back would control the pitch of his jumps, so that you could use different kinds of jumping angles (like trying to arc an arrow shot). The A button would jump, and the d pad could be used for secondarey functions (like moving into first person view or unlocking the camera from the behind the back position and relocking it).

there is probably some problem with this but it was the first thought that occured to me.

Sounds more like an alternative - I'd rather control Mario with a regular controller than with the remote (according to your controls).

I can't wait to see what Nintendo will do with the remote. I expect at first it'll be more gimmicky than later

 

[Drensch]

Stolen from another forum:

I think Nintendo has done something that Microsoft and Sony would never think of doing. After showing off their console, people are talking about the Gameplay and not the Graphics (granted no games have really been shown).

 

[DDayton]

Three things...

* I'm starting to feel like I wandered into a retrogaming board... "Yeah, I was playing Asteroids with an Atari 2600 joystick -- the way it SHOULD be played! Can't get any decent precision with those puny joypads they use these days..."

* Folks are complaining that swiveling the remote/wand wouldn't work well for driving games -- have any of you played Wario Ware Twisted? There are a few flying games, and I always felt that turning the GBA worked perfectly for "driving" controls.

* As half the people in this thread have already mentioned, you can play Revolution games with a "regular" controller -- that's what the shell will be for. The Rev "remote" is like a VMU... it can be popped out of the shell to be used on its own, or popped into the shell and add movement functionality to the standard stick and buttons controller.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

That's a good point in the Castlevania example...however, this (as well as other repetitive actions in games like this) can be handled easily by how the developer wants the game to be played. A game that would require you to constantly simulate the whipping over and over would be tiring...as well as boring. However, I think they could replace the repeatitive "action" (in the case of Castlevania, the basic whip-snap) with either a simple flick of the wrist or a mere button press. But to give the game depth, more stylized whipping motions would be required from time to time. For instance, if you're just travelling thru a part of the game that's pretty much a "button mashing" moment you could use the basic whip motion to hack thru enemies. But as stronger enemies approach you have to use something more than the basics to get at them. Imagine trying different whipping motions and using combinations (you're standing up and getting into it now as you play) and thus you invent new ways to whip. Then when bosses come into play basic whipping won't work...you'll *have* to use the stylized whipping combinations to defeat them. Again, you wouldn't be tiring/boring yourself thru a whole session of Castlevania by doing repeatitive whipping motions over & over, just when there's tough enemy or boss...and even then you wouldn't be doing the same motion over and over again, you'd have to find new ways to whip.

I think this remote-controller's freedom really opens the door to drop-out gamers as well as out-of-place gamers. When I say drop-out gamers I mean people who once played with the NES or even the Atari 'cos it was simple. The Atari arcade stick for one, is ingrained into many drop-out gamers minds as THEE way to play games, and literally the Revolution's remote-controller could simulate that experience...the player could hold onto the bottom (butt) of the remote-controller and set it upright (like as if it were an old-style joystick) and use it that way so as to give them the feel of an arcade stick. When I say out-of-place gamers I think there's some people out there who want to game, but don't like the two-handed aspect of it, either 'cos they tell themselves they're not coordinated enough or even 'cos they're just left handed.

 

[Vashu]

Stolen from another forum:

He's right, for once people are (well most of them anyway) genuinely interested in the gameplay capabilities of a system. But, with IBM and ATI behind both 'Rev' and X360, I'm beginning to think that the three consoles will be very very very close to each other in terms of graphics. So it seems all three have their own little edge, PS3 because it's the third in a succesful line, making it feel reliable and trustworthy.. And of course the biggest games (DMC4, MGS4, new GTA, another FF, and heaps more). X360 has that online knack with their Live! system, which is very good to play with, and Nintendo has that 'something else', something completely different which you would never have expected to play games with.

Good God, I'm afraid my bankaccount is gonna be drained once again the next generation...

But hey, I'll love every minute of it!

PS: People can say what they want about the controller, I for one am happy Nintendo is trying something new and drastic, trying to redefine gaming as they did back in the NES days... Try to think 'out of the box' or better yet, 'out of the joypad'...

 

[DEO3]

It's interesting how every gaming forum I've visited echoes this thread exactly.

There's a 'Revolution Revealed!' post where the first page is made up completley of, 'WTF, IT'S GAME OVER FOR NINTENDO WHAT WERE THEY THINKING', the second page consists of, 'Here's a video and some links to impressions of people who've acctualy tried it out', and the third and remaining pages consists of people who have 'gotten it' trying to educate those who haven't seen the video or read the impressions of people who've acctualy tried it out, and have posted in thier ignorance 'WTF IT'S GAME OVER FOR NINTENDO WHAT WERE THEY THINKING'.

 

[PkunkFury]

I posted about this in the tech talk thread, but people here may be interested too.

Here's a link to a VR controller that I feel works very similarly to the way the rev controller will work. It's the P5 data glove by Essential Reality, shown at the following link (if someone can host the image, please do):

http://www.vrealities.com/P5.html

The P5 glove comes with a sensor bar, much like the revolution will. The glove can be tracked in 3D space in all 3 directions of position, and all 3 directions of rotation (6 degrees of freedom in total).

The most interesting part for us to discuss here though is the price!! Notice it is only 60 dollars on the site I linked, and I remember seeing it for around $40.00 regularly when we picked one up at work. That is 40 dollars for the sensor bar, and a glove with flex technology enabling the tracking of bendable fingers! One could assume the revolution remote is far easier to manufacture than a glove would be, however wireless/battery and rumble may drag the price back up. All in all I think this tech could be priced per controller, at about the same price as the X-Box 360 controller. And if only one sensor bar is needed for controllers, then the price of extra controllers could be significantly less!!

 

[DEO3]

You know I was thinking, since the controller can act like a mouse, does that mean we'll get a next-gen Mario Paint?

 

[Wollan]

 

[Vashu]

You know I was thinking, since the controller can act like a mouse, does that mean we'll get a next-gen Mario Paint?

Well, let's hope some Nintendo guys read this forum...

 

[argon]

This is what I meant about people making the controller sound gimmicky. Why would being able to attack in the game by pretending to use a whip (instead of, say, flicking a second analog stick in the direction you want to attack) suddenly make a game good, aside from the 'ooh, it's cool' value? (More importantly, making a sharp whip-cracking motion each and every one of those thousands of times you whip an enemy in an average Castlevania game would be hell on your wrists. RSI's, here we come...)

If developers are going to support this thing, then I want to see them come up with ways to manipulate the game environment that we can't do with a conventional controller. If you're just making hand motions to trigger actions you'd normally perform with a button press or stick movement, then this thing becomes nothing more than a glorified Activator or U-Force. (What can I say? If I'm going to have to learn a new way to play games, I want companies to at least make it worth the effort. )

A more pragmatic solution for a 3rd person castlevania would be more like the Metroid demo.. having the camera focused on the whip's target at all times, press A or B to use the whip, and have wrist movements control the target (in 3d space). Use the analog pad for movement and item selection.

IMHO, if all is delivered as promised, this thing has will have as much potential in 3rd person games as in FPS. Imagine playing Batallion Wars with the nunchuck configuration...

 

[argon]

You know I was thinking, since the controller can act like a mouse, does that mean we'll get a next-gen Mario Paint?

Yes, we better... and with a DS version with connectivity!

 

[Kseutron]

I bet he's cheating !

 

[Xrenity]

That really made me laugh

 

[Thraktor]

Missed this one in the rush earlier, but there were some things said that I felt were worth addressing, so here's my (belated) response:



I'm sure some of the Nintendo fans in this thread might agree with that sentiment, but personally, I think it's absurd.

I buy new consoles to play new games. Apparently for some of you, new games aren't worth playing on their own merits, and must also make the player play bongos, doodle, tilt the controller, blow into a microphone, or wave around a sensor wand in order to be considered 'good'. That's the only reason I can see for the reactions I get whenever I say I may not like controlling games this way (or at least not as much as I do with a conventional controller).

Progress isn't a bad thing, but I'm still not convinced that this is a step forward. It may just be a step sideways. For all the talk about 'possibilities', I really haven't heard much that didn't strike me as gimmicky in an Activator/U-Force kind of way yet. There are also unanswered questions about how comfortable using the wand vigorously over an extended period is going to be. However, when the time comes for me to sit down and try it firsthand, my misgivings may vanish. Who can say? But for now, my misgivings are real ones, and I still can't get over some of the hostile reactions I've received for being honest enough to air them here. (Though to be fair about it, some of you have taken the time to make good points rather than being nasty or derisive, and to you guys and gals, I say: Thanks.)



'Guilty Gear, motherfucker! Do you speak it?' Or KOF, Garou: MotW, Street Fighter 3... The point is, the genre's hardly dead (though you wouldn't know it from looking at the N64 and GC libraries), and it's one I happen to like. Since it's apparently not one that you care about, I get the impression that you believe it'd be perfectly fine if developers stopped creating those kinds of games altogether. Genre fans ought to go back to playing fighters from earlier generations so that the industry can concentrate on developing games that focus on waving around the baton in peace. Think maybe you're being a little self-centered there? At least I haven't been suggesting that the wand tank altogether - about the worst I've said is that it'd be nice if it works out for Nintendo, but I don't want to see it become the new standard for every company, if for no other reason that it'll leave me with alternatives if it turns out I don't like it.



As I've said (repeatedly), I have every intention of buying a Revolution, so I'll inevitably come face-to-face with the dreaded wand o' doom sooner or later. So long as there are alternatives to using it in pointer mode for everything, I should be alright even if it turns out I don't like the way it feels, but we'll see.

My point wasn't to indicate that 2D fighters such as Street Fighter are a stagnant genre, but simply that new hardware generations do very little (if anything) to change these games for the better. I know sequels will always end up on the newest available hardware, forcing us to keep upgrading, but in reality that sequel will be little different, in all but graphics, to what could be done last generation. As such, in terms of 2D fighters, the newest generation of hardware is useless anyway, so why bother expecting any more from Nintendo (a company, which, btw, has had the incredibly short end of the stick in that genre for two gens now)?

Also, to the sabreur who posted a few pages back; if you've been fencing all your life, then surely you know that manipulation of the blade is quicker, easier, and much less strenuous if done with the fingers, not the wrist? As my maitre used to tell me back in the days I used to fence with a french-grip foil, "If it's uncomfortable, that means you're holding it wrong." Granted, without a Revolution controller in front of me, there is little way to see if this translates directly across, but it's something to think about.

Oh, and to those people asking for an example of a game that can't be done with a regular controller, but can be with this, try a fully licensed fencing game. Would play like cack on a DualShock or equivalent (even to people "conditioned" to classical control methods), while it could (if in the hands of the right developer) be a near-perfect approximation of the sport on the Revolution.