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[Council Pop]

Fair enough, but I do want to ask, do you work in the industry and/or are you a dev (or have close friends in the industry)? Genuinely intrigued as clearly I'm arguing from a consumers perspective. You might be too, I just find it a rather perplexing hard stance for a consumer to take (the mixing/muddying the waters with the working conditions argument/be nicer to devs over publishers as a standard).

I know some devs, mainly smaller ones, but know a few people who are both devs and artists/theatre makers, or devs and academics etc. They tend to have interesting perspectives on stuff like funding for games, because they straddle multiple artforms. For example, most theatre makers are reliant on public funding to subsidise their work, so the audience don't see themselves as consumers paying for a cultural product- they're paying into 'the arts' as a whole.

I'm an artist, music and performance stuff, so I think about the relationship between audience and art a lot, and the importance of having artistic independence from your audience.

Over in America there is no public funding for theatre so it's basically paid for by the wealthier (and more conservative) theatregoers, and there was an incident with a New York theatre a few years ago where some powerful audience members wrote in complaining that a particular play was too long and too violent (seriously..), and the director of the theatre was forced to put out a statement apologising and promising never to put on plays like that again. Whereas in Berlin or somewhere they can show violent disgusting plays which last 5 hours and there is nothing anyone can do.

I'm saying this in a very roundabout way, but basically the 'consumerisation' of art benefits shareholders, speculators, capitalists, while both the artists and the audience suffer- artists through bad conditions and incredible pressure, and audience through bad games, broken games, outrageous prices and the like.

Also I think that we need to have more critical engagement with 'the game' by itself, rather than only relating it to the individual developers who made it. That way both us and the developers can learn from it, and we can understand better what works and doesn't work in terms of game design, which is the important thing when it comes to pushing the medium forward.

 

[Renekton]

You're an adult. If you know you can't handle negativity, stay off the internet or put a person in place to filter out the relevant information/criticism. Do not spend two days pouring through two years of posts about your game and then blame it on the collective NeoGAF when you get your feelings hurt.

It's a problem with a lot of professionals that have an online presence. They glance past anything positive because, "of course I did a good job" and zero in on all the bad shit. Again, if your ego can't handle it, you shouldn't be reading public opinion.

Easier said than done if you have never been in their shoes.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Thank you for this. And bolded is my sentiment as well, it makes very hard to read anything that isn't an OT.

I wish more people would take my approach when it comes to the gaming side. I RARELY ever talk shit about something. Not because I'm afraid to voice my opinion but I just don't see any point to it. I just dislike being a parade shitter. Unless the thread is specifically to ask an opinion on somethings quality you will never see me do it. And even in those threads it'll be one comment.

It really doesn't take a whole lot of restraint either. Topic about a game I think sucks? I don't even care to click into it. Topic about a trailer to a hyped game? I'll give it a watch and skim some posts, if I didn't like it I'll quickly try to articulate my thoughts on it and leave it but more often than not I just hit back and continue onto something I like and want to talk about.

In OT I actually don't mind the shit slinging lol. I don't do it much but I don't mind it.

word.

 

[PtM]

is the internet the real world?

Sadly, this is a genuine question to a lot of people

Spoiler

(gamers)

.

 

[CharminUltra]

Fucking gamers.

 

[kaioshade]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Well said. Unfortunately, it is prob going to fall on deaf ears, or perhaps people will be mindful for a little bit, then go right back to being assholes. Seems people get a rush being horrible to people online.

 

[Audioboxer]

Yeah I try not to read any threads on games I've worked on. Generally we know the faults with the games, but when you work an insane amount on something for 2+ years it's very difficult to read some comments. The same goes for steam forums etc. as well. A lot of times the "constructive criticism" is ill informed and basically boils down to geez, why don't you just change this entire part of your game.

You have to have thick skin though.

True, but in a world where you're charging money for the game, not simply asking people to send virtual hugs your way, that is where you're going to need to put up with remarks that while crude, and not 1,000 word essays on "how to improve your game", are simply consumers regurgitating feelings after giving up money.

This says nothing for actual harassment, which many in this topic seem to be getting hot and bothered about thinking other GAFers refer to that as well as "criticism". Of course not, genuine threats/harassment/targetted hate are not criticism. Calling your game "a worthless piece of shit" while crude, is not bullying/harassment. That verges on Digital Homicide versus Jim Sterling levels of nonsense (not saying this about you, just elaborating on my feelings).

Criticism is a tough part of life, and we aren't always in shape to hear it. No doubts about that. Everyone wants to feel loved and accepted 24/7, but it doesn't always work like that, especially in industries where your goal is to get money out of a consumer's wallet and into your companies bank account. Yes, you're giving up a product for that, so it's a fair exchange, but due to the nature of the industry (and a severe lack of demos these days) many do spend money and feel let down afterwards.

Pre-order culture as much as it is blown out of control by pubs/devs (pre-order bonuses), is something that is in control of the consumer. Countless times consumers say to other consumers stop fucking pre-ordering games and wait a few more days for all reviews to hit. Many just can't do that though, desperate to play things at the same time as friends/other GAFers. That doesn't negate a dodgy game, but it stops some of your own self-inflicted wounds buying into hype/vertical slices/marketing and then feeling remorse once you have the product/it has been reviewed and you're now unhappy.

In saying that the erosion of demos, and nearly everything now being a review/release day embargo, are small parts of this overall jigsaw puzzle as to why consumers can get bees in their bonnets.

I know some devs, mainly smaller ones, but know a few people who are both devs and artists/theatre makers, or devs and academics etc. They tend to have interesting perspectives on stuff like funding for games, because they straddle multiple artforms. For example, most theatre makers are reliant on public funding to subsidise their work, so the audience don't see themselves as consumers paying for a cultural product- they're paying into 'the arts' as a whole.

I'm an artist, music and performance stuff, so I think about the relationship between audience and art a lot, and the importance of having artistic independence from your audience.

Over in America there is no public funding for theatre so it's basically paid for by the wealthier (and more conservative) theatregoers, and there was an incident with a New York theatre a few years ago where some powerful audience members wrote in complaining that a particular play was too long and too violent (seriously..), and the director of the theatre was forced to put out a statement apologising and promising never to put on plays like that again. Whereas in Berlin or somewhere they can show violent disgusting plays which last 5 hours and there is nothing anyone can do.

I'm saying this in a very roundabout way, but basically the 'consumerisation' of art benefits shareholders, speculators, capitalists, while both the artists and the audience suffer- artists through bad conditions and incredible pressure, and audience through bad games, broken games, outrageous prices and the like.

Also I think that we need to have more critical engagement with 'the game' by itself, rather than only relating it to the individual developers who made it. That way both us and the developers can learn from it, and we can understand better what works and doesn't work in terms of game design, which is the important thing when it comes to pushing the medium forward.

I appreciate these viewpoints and it suggests to me more where you are coming from.

 

[KahooTs]

Your mental health is your responsibility. Being reduced to tears for days by criticism of your video game by people who hadn't played it is a problem on your part.

 

[shandy706]

This is essentially what the first part of your post is.

No it isn't. I'm not dismissing people that it harms, hence the SECOND half of my post. I don't understand it. Just like depression is real, but I don't understand it/relate personally...as I've never experienced it. It doesn't mean it isn't a real situation or that it isn't hurtful in this case.

I'm not being dismissive...that's why you don't just look at one part of a persons post. I find trying to turn someone's post into something it isn't one of the negative parts of many forums.

There's a reason we post youtube videos and say "stay away from the comment section", . Some real trash there, and it does upset some people.

 

[Bronetta]

Your mental health is your responsibility. Being reduced to tears for days by criticism of your video game by people who hadn't played it is a problem on your part.

Its almost as if everyone is different and reacts to things differently.

 

[entremet]

Too bad Donald Trump doesn't read NeoGaf Off- Topic.

lol

lol. don't forget Trump is on Twitter and gets heat daily there.

 

[kiaaa]

Its almost as if everyone is different and reacts to things differently.

Thus "your responsibility". You should know your limits and if you can't handle things on your own, there's a ton of ways to get help.

 

[The Dude]

All I know is I'd gladly go back to the days when the doorway to trash people and their incessant hate and fingering pointing was simply behind those doors, life without the net was just fine back then.

 

[PtM]

Your mental health is your responsibility. Being reduced to tears for days by criticism of your video game by people who hadn't played it is a problem on your part.

Even if, it doesn't excuse shitty behaviour.

With that said, the thread title is misleading. Dev cried while reading GAF. They read GAF for two days.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

EviLore and besada's posts. God damn I love you guys.

I remember posting something harsh (with no personal attacks, I think) when news about a troubled development came out, since it seemed legitimate news. Heck, even if it was just a year ago, I feel like I've changed from that. I prefer to only focus and comment on positive things on my hobbies (while obviously criticizing injustices like discrimination and abuse with crunch development).

 

[Instro]

On a side note, kind of bummed that the game we are getting doesn't really seem to be what was originally talked about years ago.

 

[WetWaffle]

No it isn't. I'm not dismissing people that it harms, hence the SECOND half of my post. I don't understand it. Just like depression is real, but I don't understand it/relate personally...as I've never experienced it. It doesn't mean it isn't a real situation or that it isn't hurtful in this case.

I'm not being dismissive...that's why you don't just look at one part of a persons post. I find trying to turn someone's post into something it isn't one of the negative parts of many forums.

There's a reason we post youtube videos and say "stay away from the comment section", . Some real trash there, and it does upset some people.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I read your post, I was reminded of that when I saw that, so I brought it up, not trying to sully your reputation or whatever. I'm just saying people can learn to be more understanding of the thought that goes into creating something. You shouldn't just tell them to stay away from forums, comments(second person, not you). It should be the critics/gamers who should learn how to write constructive criticism, they should be the ones that works towards the solution, telling developers to just ignore outlets for their fans to communicate with them doesn't help anyone

 

[Memorabilia]

I know some devs, mainly smaller ones, but know a few people who are both devs and artists/theatre makers, or devs and academics etc. They tend to have interesting perspectives on stuff like funding for games, because they straddle multiple artforms. For example, most theatre makers are reliant on public funding to subsidise their work, so the audience don't see themselves as consumers paying for a cultural product- they're paying into 'the arts' as a whole.

I'm an artist, music and performance stuff, so I think about the relationship between audience and art a lot, and the importance of having artistic independence from your audience.

Over in America there is no public funding for theatre so it's basically paid for by the wealthier (and more conservative) theatregoers, and there was an incident with a New York theatre a few years ago where some powerful audience members wrote in complaining that a particular play was too long and too violent (seriously..), and the director of the theatre was forced to put out a statement apologising and promising never to put on plays like that again. Whereas in Berlin or somewhere they can show violent disgusting plays which last 5 hours and there is nothing anyone can do.

I'm saying this in a very roundabout way, but basically the 'consumerisation' of art benefits shareholders, speculators, capitalists, while both the artists and the audience suffer- artists through bad conditions and incredible pressure, and audience through bad games, broken games, outrageous prices and the like.

Also I think that we need to have more critical engagement with 'the game' by itself, rather than only relating it to the individual developers who made it. That way both us and the developers can learn from it, and we can understand better what works and doesn't work in terms of game design, which is the important thing when it comes to pushing the medium forward.

This is a great post that accurately nails some of the underlying issues with a decayed and rapidly disappearing "commons" in the US. Such an accurate assessment that goes way beyond the context here.

To the OP's question(s): There's a saying I used to live by when I played college and semi-Pro sports..."Don't read your own press clippings". And, if u do, u better have a thick skin. Places like NeoGAF can get unnecessarily toxic at times, especially when a particularly enthusiastic, nasty dog-pile is in progress. So, my heart goes out to the dev on a personal level. But this place - and the net in general - is what it is. GAF specifically draws a fair amount of its overall value from its pull-no-punches, acerbic nature. We have great mods that keep things within the bounds of good taste 99.99% of the time. Truth telling isn't always fun, but especially in an increasingly corporortized environment where in most "news" is just glorified PR the nature of GAF is more important than ever. Even the less savory sociological aspects serve a purpose.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Not going to say people shouldn't be more positive, but I'm sure I have seen a lot of people in this thread espousing that viewpoint being pretty shitty about games and developers in the past.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Thank you. I really wish gamers both on GAF and everywhere else on the internet would wake up and realise this instead of seeing everything a developer or publisher does wrong as some conspiracy to royally screw them and their livelihoods over.

 

[Noobcraft]

Lol Now just imagine what Michael Pachter does every time he reads gaf 😂😂😂

 

[Lord of Castamere]

That's a phrase that's not very popular on Gaf.

I'd also argue that Neogaf is far more negative these days then it is Positive. You get some rays of sunshine every once in awhile, but there is a reason that many developers have stopped coming here completely. Saddest part is that the reason why so many get so mad in many threads is largely of their own doing since this place hypes itself into oblivion and then fly off the handle when whatever said thing doesn't deliver the exact thing people dream up in their imagination.

Eh. Partially. Switch and Scropio hype are a good example of that, baseless rumors that hyped both into the second coming of Christ, and the fall when they many of those rumors turned out false. On the other side of the coin though, publishers and developers for years have been putting out trailers that completely misrepresent their games to the point of being outright lies. Not all developers do this, for example, for as much shit as Bethesda receives on the forum, the reveal of Fallout 4 was 100% what you actually played, warts and all. When you show a trailer that has gameplay in it, people expect that to translate into the final product, on at least one platform. Instead you get cases where presented footage is filled with entirely scripted segments that, in some cases, were only made for the trailer itself. Honesty if developers were more transparent(or waited to show their game when it is in a playable state) this wouldn't be an issue.

Developers doing crap like this hurts other honest developers. This happened with Horizon: Zero Dawn wherein there was a lot of talk of that gameplay being prerendered vertical slice versus actual gameplay. No mans Sky was a major culprit of this. Showing what looked like actual gameplay that featured elements of the game that either were never finished, cut, or never existed. It creates paranoia that leeches into all of gaming.

All in all, I'm not saying the negativity doesn't exist, only that it is founded, in some circumstances. Personal attacks are never okay. Venom either, but criticism is inherently negative and I don't think it should disappear.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

I wonder how the ffxv team felt... There were haye threads on an hourly basis. Hell it didnt even need its own thread to be shat on. Still doesn't

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

But we're usually so nice

Dunno what forum you are on.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Gonna try to be better. Def get carried awayed. As for devs who visit here, we should try and be more considerate. I'm sure a lot of us wouldnt want to read half the shit we say about games people spent years of their life making. I will make an effort.

 

[Taker34]

I wish more people would take my approach when it comes to the gaming side. I RARELY ever talk shit about something. Not because I'm afraid to voice my opinion but I just don't see any point to it. I just dislike being a parade shitter. Unless the thread is specifically to ask an opinion on somethings quality you will never see me do it. And even in those threads it'll be one comment.

It really doesn't take a whole lot of restraint either. Topic about a game I think sucks? I don't even care to click into it. Topic about a trailer to a hyped game? I'll give it a watch and skim some posts, if I didn't like it I'll quickly try to articulate my thoughts on it and leave it but more often than not I just hit back and continue onto something I like and want to talk about.

In OT I actually don't mind the shit slinging lol. I don't do it much but I don't mind it.

This (except for the OT part). Playing video games, being in the industry is just a big part of my life so I couldn't bring myself over to write something bad about a game with a harmful intent. The amount of shitposting about anything Bethesda related is just plain awful for example. The whole Mass Effect thing overblown and exaggerated beyond infinity. No Man Sky apparently the worst thing behind war. I don't like stuff as well. At least I can't remember deliberately bashing a game or developer just because I'm an asshole.

There so much I don't like out there but really voting with my wallet and occasionally stating my opinion is enough. EA would figure out people don't like Andromeda by themselves. Ubisoft figured out no one cares about Watchdogs 2 without having all the shitty comments some developers have to bear. Maybe a lot of folks are too lazy or incapable of forming a coherent thought or any sort of constructive criticism, but even one of the most moderated gaming forums has to fight these issues. It's just unnecessary - worthless drama and a waste of time,

 

[Not]

Not going to say people shouldn't be more positive, but I'm sure I have seen a lot of people in this thread espousing that viewpoint being pretty shitty about games and developers in the past.

Aonuma's gotta get his shit together dude

LINK CAN HAVE A VAGINA

Spoiler

you're right tho

 

[ULTROS!]

There are many faces here but what I notice is that there are people who tend to be more aggressive about their opinions (whether positive or negative) and that it may seem like the majority opinion, all because it's the loudest and most commonly repeated one.

I tend to focus on the positive side though. Don't want negativity filling me in, it ain't healthy.

 

[stuminus3]

I would love to take this opportunity to say 'Dyack was right!' but I don't like him.

 

[Jinfash]

I have zero experience in moderating forums and fostering constructive discourse, but make me a mod and I'll #MGGA

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I wonder how the ffxv team felt... There were haye threads on an hourly basis. Hell it didnt even need its own thread to be shat on. Still doesn't

I think FFXV is terrible.

This does not mean I think the team is terrible people. It means I think the product they released is very, very bad.

I can separate the two, and so can you.

 

[The Dude]

There are many faces here but what I notice is that there are people who tend to be more aggressive about their opinions (whether positive or negative) and that it may seem like the majority opinion, all because it's the loudest and most commonly repeated one.

I tend to focus on the positive side though. Don't want negativity filling me in, it ain't healthy.

It's how I try to be.. Lifes way to short to sit and just critique stuff to death and talk myself out of enjoying games.

I just want to enjoy games, it's a very big part of my life but I have a hard time understanding how people are so so vicious and so over the top with it all, it's like relax...enjoy some games and don't take it all so serious.

 

[Shanlei91]

That's way too many days to be crying.

-Should probably be talking about your two whole day cry with your therapist and not Edge Magazine. Also sounds like it would be pretty cathartic in any case. Did you emerge from your cocoon of tears a brave new boy new ready to face your first actual challenges in life? I bet you did! You're quite welcome.

Dang lol

 

[QuantumBro]

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Neogaf users into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? And unfortunately there are people like that. And it has lifted them up. He has given voice to their blog posts that used to only have 11 views -- now 11 thousand. He tweets and quotes their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not real critics.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It's how I try to be.. Lifes way to short to sit and just critique stuff to death and talk myself out of enjoying games.

I just want to enjoy games, it's a very big part of my life but I have a hard time understanding how people are so so vicious and so over the top with it all, it's like relax...enjoy some games and don't take it all so serious.

I mean

I'm a game critic.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Sometimes it's hard to be nice when the game industry seems to be filled with so much things that are seemingly designed to screw gamers over.

I mean, I get that "this/that game company are people too" argument, but to what end do we need to withhold our criticism lest we be called "cruel" to them?

 

[ffdgh]

But we're usually so nice

Ehh...I don't know. Doesn't take much for things to get heated more often than not lol.

 

[Interficium]

"Devs need to toughen up and get thicker skin!" - Probably a person in this thread who's never been in the public arena or ever had the "opportunity" to have their work critiqued by mobs of strangers on the internet.

 

[Pie and Beans]

I mean I'd expect the guy to have been crying about Sony pulling out of their project so rapidly it made his head spin but sure, I guess an internet messageboard is a pretty good ol' mean scapegoat when you still have to play nicey nice to even appear on all platforms.

 

[TheSpoiler]

It's just game talk to me man, I don't care what port begging is or whatever other made up classifications people want to give... It's not like a forum is limited In weekly threads or something. If a thread moves and people are talking I say great, if it dies and nobody is talking then oh well life goes on. I simply wanted a place to talk switch rpgs, jrpgs etc all in one thread and sure that means people mentioning games they would like to see, big whoop

Whether or not you care about if it's port begging is kind of irrelevant. Most forums have rules, and people follow them. If you have a problem with it, shoot it over to the mods. I don't think there's a conspiracy, just you being frustrated that they didn't like your thread.

Otherwise, there are plenty of places that would allow that thread.

 

[ULTROS!]

I mean

I'm a game critic.

Speaking of game critic.

The worst critics are those who push their opinions (whether positive or negative) about X game just by watching videos or streams.

It's kinda like: I thought Bayonetta 2 was the worst game ever because the stream doesn't show that the game is 60 FPS and the story seems to suck (though the stream isn't complete and all).

 

[True Fire]

I wonder how the ffxv team felt... There were haye threads on an hourly basis. Hell it didnt even need its own thread to be shat on. Still doesn't

I don't condone hate threads or shitposting, but incomplete video games that don't deliver on their promises need to be called out. If I was the FFXV team I'd be making my discontent crystal clear with SE's management so they don't pull the easy access shit with XVI

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Sometimes it's hard to be nice when the game industry seems to be filled with so much things that are seemingly designed to screw gamers over.

I mean, I get that "this/that game company are people too" argument, but to what end do we need to withhold our criticism lest we be called "cruel" to them?

I think the biggest problem is that most of the vitriol is leveled at devs when most of the decisions that "screw over" people come from pubs

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I think the biggest problem is that most of the vitriol is leveled at devs when most of the decisions that "screw over" people come from pubs

What if I think Gearbox and Randy Pitchford are forces of net ill?

 

[Inviusx]

His problem should be with the other developers/publishers that have caused people to be more wary/untrusting. Game fans are generally a lot leas lenient than they used to be. The generally negative attitude has stemmed from being burnt so many times in the last 5 years or so.

As far as I'm concerned, until your game is out in the hands of fans it's allowed to be scrutinized anyway people see fit.

 

[Ahasverus]

What if I think Gearbox and Randy Pitchford are forces of net ill?

They are, but such opinions are based on facts rather than baseless speculation.

 

[ULTROS!]

As far as I'm concerned, until your game is out in the hands of fans it's allowed to be scrutinized anyway people see fit.

Shouldn't it be the opposite?

I mean, shouldn't people criticize about the game and the developers when it's released, not before it's released because in the end, it's the game in people's hands that's the central product of criticism? Because that's close to jumping to conclusions and assuming the worst (even if the product turns out good in the end).

 

[Weltall Zero]

Not going to say people shouldn't be more positive, but I'm sure I have seen a lot of people in this thread espousing that viewpoint being pretty shitty about games and developers in the past.

Not mutually exclusive. I for example have admitted to getting carried away more often than I should (although often more at other GAFers than devs...). As long as those people have some self-awareness and actually reflect and act accordingly, I don't see a problem in bringing an issue to light even when one has been part of it.

 

[Concept17]

Without getting into specifics, both the gaming community in general, and the current state of the industry for developers/artists are pretty toxic. While this forum has a fair amount of negativity, we're hardly alone in it when it comes to gaming.

The gaming hate train spans many worlds.

 

[The Dude]

Whether or not you care about if it's port begging is kind of irrelevant. Most forums have rules, and people follow them. If you have a problem with it, shoot it over to the mods. I don't think there's a conspiracy, just you being frustrated that they didn't like your thread.

Otherwise, there are plenty of places that would allow that thread.

It's fine, i find it a stupid rule but it's not my forum so it's fine. But I see there's a 2017 rpg thread, I personally don't see how that sort of category is much different than narrowing down a bit more specific.

But it all is what it is.