Rime: Microsoft rejected Tequila Works’ game before it became PS4 exclusive

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
My question is, why did Tequila works strictly go for Microsoft? I'm pretty sure word goes around that Sony is a lot more open and supportive to indie titles, past, present, and future (possibly).
 
Because hindsight is 20/20,
here was the reveal thread for Deadlight:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=459321

We all thought it was gonna be Shadow Complex meets Limbo.
It looked gorgeous and was very promising.
What we got was a very mediocre game.

History seems to be repeating itself for Tequila Works. Rime looks gorgeous but that leaked gameplay description sounds very disappointing.
 
Oh yes, I never denied your main point -- you are right.

And thanks for the correction :) I confused the ID@Xbox list that included Below with the announcement of the actual self-published title.
Same here, it's all good. I actually had to double check Below to see if something had changed, I didn't want to give out false info to you haha :p.
 
Thank fuck for Chris Charla and id@xbox. The lack of any direction in the indie space before last august and the creation of id@xbox was beyond stupid. Especially considering that minecraft has been an insane cash cow for Microsoft on the 360. I know all indies aren't minecraft, but you never know when the next one is gonna hit. You aren't gonna get it if you are rejecting everyone.
 
Because hindsight is 20/20,
here was the reveal thread for Deadlight:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=459321

We all thought it was gonna be Shadow Complex meets Limbo.
It looked gorgeous and was very promising.
What we got was a very mediocre game.

History seems to be repeating itself for Tequila Works. Rime looks gorgeous but that leaked gameplay description sounds very disappointing.
At least going by the limited footage, as others have said, it's certainly possible the gameplay has changed quite a bit since then. Heck, perhaps once Sony was onboard it could have become a conscious decision of making it more ICO-like when seeing the game in action given that that was the first vibes many of us got from seeing a glimpse of the game with the trailer.
 
I thought that was the story? Respawn pitched Titanfall to Sony and Microsoft and Microsoft made the better offer or Sony didn't want it.

Something like that lol. I've heard it before I swear ....
Nope.

Respawn wanted to focus on a single console as they were a small team. In 2011 and 2012 microsoft was behind the scenes selling their vision for the xbox one. At the same time Sony was gathering info but not really sharing it. The vast majority of the industry thought that Microsoft was going to dominate this gen... until one year ago, tomorrow.

Respawn picked the xb1 because it seemed like the better choice. MS was pushing it. Sony was mum. The 360 dominated the US and western EU, which is where FPS are king. It was a no brainer.
 
Because hindsight is 20/20,
here was the reveal thread for Deadlight:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=459321

We all thought it was gonna be Shadow Complex meets Limbo.
It looked gorgeous and was very promising.
What we got was a very mediocre game.

History seems to be repeating itself for Tequila Works. Rime looks gorgeous but that leaked gameplay description sounds very disappointing.

When it's disappointing why does Phil Spencer say passing on it was a mistake?
As a guy in the videogame industry he sure has some contacts, who saw more of the game.
 
Nope.

Respawn wanted to focus on a single console as they were a small team. In 2011 and 2012 microsoft was behind the scenes selling their vision for the xbox one. At the same time Sony was gathering info but not really sharing it. The vast majority of the industry thought that Microsoft was going to dominate this gen... until one year ago, tomorrow.

Respawn picked the xb1 because it seemed like the better choice. MS was pushing it. Sony was mum. The 360 dominated the US and western EU, which is where FPS are king. It was a no brainer.
Ok cool, my mistake. Could of swore I heard that story somewhere ....
 
Would not at all be surprised if MS rejected it because Tequila Works had previously made one of the worst platformers ever.
Didn't stop MS for hiring Double Helix, a dev company that (at the time) had made some of the worst [insert genre] of all time. People give Deadlight alot of shit but for a new company its a all right first game.
 
No, Below is not self published. MS Studios is publishing it as the deal was in place well before ID@Xbox. Unless Capy worked something out with MS since then. I believe you are right about STT though. Still, if that's the only issue with that list, then it seems my point has been delivered quite nicely.

edit: Capy's website still has Below as published by MS Studios. http://www.capybaragames.com/below/
Microsoft are publishing STF on XBLA still, Capy doing self-publishing on XBO
 
Didn't stop MS for hiring Double Helix, a dev company that (at the time) had made some of the worst [insert genre] of all time. People give Deadlight alot of shit but for a new company its a all right first game.
Totally different case. Double Helix had an internal team of fighting game veterans that really wanted to work on KI. They understood the mechanics of KI and had a great pitch deck.
 
Nope.

Respawn wanted to focus on a single console as they were a small team. In 2011 and 2012 microsoft was behind the scenes selling their vision for the xbox one. At the same time Sony was gathering info but not really sharing it. The vast majority of the industry thought that Microsoft was going to dominate this gen... until one year ago, tomorrow.

Respawn picked the xb1 because it seemed like the better choice. MS was pushing it. Sony was mum. The 360 dominated the US and western EU, which is where FPS are king. It was a no brainer.
I'm no body but I felt exactly the same thing... the industry guessed PS4 will bomb compared with Nextbox until February reveal.... after that they saw potential in PS4 but what really killed MS was the MS reveal in May. Now the publishers will pay for these wrong estimates before the gen started... multiplatforms will sell way better on PS4 even if the attach rate is bigger on Xbone the twice userbase will show a strong selling point.

I guess PS4 will dominate 2:1 already at end of March and 3:1 at the end of 2014. Nobody expected that.

Meanwhile at Activision only happiness... they really know how to create huge franchises... Titanfall had the potential but EA can't create a huge franchise because they see a little incompetent in how they manage the things. Destiny will be huge and maybe the best Bungle project ever (and I love Halo).
 
Titanfall had the potential but EA can't create a huge franchise because they see a little incompetent in how they manage the things. Destiny will be huge and maybe the best Bungle project ever (and I love Halo).
Titanfall is being marketed very well, but EA should never had let MS downplay the existence of the 360 SKU in the marketing pushes so much.

It's bad enough the previous-gen software sales are slowing down significantly. Titanfall is not yet the kind of game that gamers go 'no brainer pick-up' on store shelves. The lack of awareness of that product being available to the large swath of gamers who are not jumping in to buy a new console immediately is dangerous for brand building.
 
In a way, I'm glad they rejected MS vision for the game, because (unless TW are hiding it very well), we're getting a something that's quite different from the one described here and it looks a lot better.

I want my Ico-esque exploratory adventure-y sun-drenched puzzle thing. I don't want crafting or RPG elements to interfere with it. If MS rejecting this pitch caused TW to change the game to what they're suggesting it is in all the footage we've seen so far, then everything worked out Millhouse.
 
I really hope that this launch fuckup was a shake up to remove the completely deranged and toxic part of the xbone staff. Give me another 360, Microsoft.
 

nbnt

is responsible for the well-being of this island.
"Isometric" and comparisons to Orcs Must Die?! Lord I hope this isn't the same game they're making right now.
 
These things happen - Sony messed up badly with Demon's Souls.

To think they could have had a real AAA exclusive, however I am kind of glad that everyone can experience that marvel.
 
Ehh...I was really fucking psyched for this but the mentions of tower defense have me a bit wary.

I hope it'll still be fun for someone like me, who doesn't enjoy tower defense games.
 
I meant they failed to publish Demon's Souls and Dark Souls went Multiplatform as a result.
Sony published Demon's Souls, they simply chose to not bring it over to the rest of the world.

Dark Souls is an entirely different IP, and it's s spiritual successor that From published themselves by borrowing the same design structure as Demon's Souls.

Sony couldn't had prevented Dark Souls from going multi-platform anyway, because it's considered a different franchise from Demon's Souls.

The most you could argue was that Sony failed to lock From into a multi-game deal, which would had prevented them from developing Dark Souls, since then they would have no choice but to develop Demon Souls 2 instead.
 
Even if it was your intent (which it clearly wasn't)... there's no trouble to get into ;)

NP. Should have more to share on both soon!
Is it different developing titles with all the attention this time around?

I think it's interesting that Jon Blow has been working away at The Witness for so long, expectations are so high at this point. Notch has talked about his struggle with development with the huge audience waiting with bated breath to see his next release.

Obviously Superbrothers was a beautiful game, and Below looks pretty fantastic, but does the pressure impact development at all? I could imagine it being stifling or bolstering.
 
Is it different developing titles with all the attention this time around?

I think it's interesting that Jon Blow has been working away at The Witness for so long, expectations are so high at this point. Notch has talked about his struggle with development with the huge audience waiting with bated breath to see his next release.

Obviously Superbrothers was a beautiful game, and Below looks pretty fantastic, but does the pressure impact development at all? I could imagine it being stifling or bolstering.
It's the kind of pressure we like. I'd love more of it, even. I want people to be excited by what we're making. I want people to *expect* something great from us. Those expectations mean we've done something right in the past, and we're continuing to do something right at present. That's a huge motivation for me personally, and I believe a huge motivation for our whole team.

It is absolutely a little scary, and it absolutely puts a lot of stress on us, but I would like to believe that the core desire to make our games great would be there even if no one know who the hell we were, even if we hadn't made good games before.

Expectations are challenging to meet, but I don't think we're anywhere near John's or Notch's level. That's a different stratosphere. But it's one I wouldn't shy from being a part of if we can make something that great that resonates even half as well.

Sorry for the wall of text, and I genuinely hope that reads as honest and not too douchey ;)
 
Expectations are challenging to meet, but I don't think we're anywhere near John's or Notch's level. That's a different stratosphere. But it's one I wouldn't shy from being a part of if we can make something that great that resonates even half as well.

Sorry for the wall of text, and I genuinely hope that reads as honest and not too douchey ;)
Well, The Witness was the only indie game at Sony's big reveal, Below was the only one at MS's E3 conference. The hype is probably closer than you'd imagine.

Anyway, it looks beautiful, I can't wait, and you didn't sound douchey at all, thanks for the reply.
 
Why am I not surprised...
This. It's Microsoft's loss, & Sony's gain.

From the interview i posted before:
[...]Then the Xbox One plans were announced and everything changed. The people at Microsoft say that the game doesn't fit in the strategy of the new console, that they are looking for "connected experiences" and the social factor. Rime didn't fit because it was a single-player game, a very traditional game experience. [...]
This certainly proves that the "new Xbox team" that are currently in charge of the Xbox division doesn't give a damn about games or gamers like the former Xbox team does.
 
Hey. This shit happens. Sony passed on meat boy for dumb reasons. SCEA passed on Demons Souls and was probably the single reason FROM made Dark Souls multiplat.

Publishers are silly sometimes.

Nope.

In 2011 and 2012 microsoft was behind the scenes selling their vision for the xbox one. At the same time Sony was gathering info but not really sharing it. The vast majority of the industry thought that Microsoft was going to dominate this gen... until one year ago, tomorrow.

Respawn picked the xb1 because it seemed like the better choice.
This is a great sum up of the lead up to next gen.

MS was out talking to developers and making deals years ago. Heck we had rumours since around 2010. Sony on the other side was super quiet. In fact they where so quiet most people actually started to think they might be launching in 2014. I think we only even started to hear the early rumblings about the PS4 in 2012 when we started to hear the name Orbis.

Before February 20th all signs pointed to MS being on the ball and well into development and Sony was rushing to counter. It was quiet the role reversal.

Sony had a heck of a strategy which I guess included keeping 3rd parties in the dark about a lot of things and playing it cool until the last minute where as MS was way more open and out making deals and why we had fully leaked specs for the system 6 months before it was even announced for the X1 but the Sony stuff was a lot for all over the place until about a month before the reveal.
 
I don't feel like the criticism of Microsoft's rejection of this game is fair, considering the premise of the game in its original concept (as presented in the document), the impressions that I'm reading with regard to Deadlight in this thread (I've never played it, so I don't know if those are misleading), the three-million dollar cost, and the projected 2 year dev time.

Hindsight is 20/20, and I can't even say that the initial design pitch looks at all like what they're going for with RIME as it is in its current state.
 
This. It's Microsoft's loss, & Sony's gain.





This certainly proves that the "new Xbox team" that are currently in charge of the Xbox division doesn't give a damn about games or gamers like the former Xbox team does.
I think that is a bit of an over simplification of a problem of limited resources and an opportunity cost involved. That is how we end up with the Unseen64 site for example. This doesn't just happen at MS Studios it happens in the rest of the Games Industry - it happens in Books, Movies and Theme Parks as well.

A bigger more extreme example of this is how Hyperion Press passed on Harry Potter books in the US and Scholastic was the only US book publisher that agreed to it.
 
Nope.

Respawn wanted to focus on a single console as they were a small team. In 2011 and 2012 microsoft was behind the scenes selling their vision for the xbox one. At the same time Sony was gathering info but not really sharing it. The vast majority of the industry thought that Microsoft was going to dominate this gen... until one year ago, tomorrow.

Respawn picked the xb1 because it seemed like the better choice. MS was pushing it. Sony was mum. The 360 dominated the US and western EU, which is where FPS are king. It was a no brainer.
This

I work on the financial side for hedge fund. Everybody from analysts like me to the Portfolio Managers that actually trade stocks in the Enetertainment/Media space were convinced that Microsoft would take the fight to Sony in Europe and outsell the PS4 considerably this gen. This was because everybody we spoke to from people on the sell side (like Pachter) to people on the software side were convinced that Sony wouldn't launch till 2014. We'd heard that Microsoft was pushing the notion that the the next Xbox was going to be some sort of revolutionary grand unification device for the living room very early on in the game. I think it was in late 2012 that we started hearing about Orbis but information was always very sparse right up to the launch. When Jack Tretton said they'd never be first to market we took it as confirmation that we were right and a tacit admission that Sony were ill prepared. Sony's extremely competent, frankly shockingly extensive 2/20 reveal and Microsoft's 5/21 fiasco proved how wrong we all were.

I think that what happened was that the Microsoft effort was led by marketing. They boldly announced a vision for the system to developers early and didn't really focus on the details (including the hardware) till much later. Sony decided on designing the PS4 first and evolved its vision for the platform later. Its perfectly possible that devs like Tequila and even pubs like EA were so convinced the Xbox One was going to be the easy winner this time around that they decided to get in on the action very early. I do not think that anybody saying they expected the PS4 to do as well as it has and for Xbox to be bleeding marketshare the way it is before the announcements is being honest.
 
This

I work on the financial side for hedge fund. Everybody from analysts like me to the Portfolio Managers that actually trade stocks in the Enetertainment/Media space were convinced that Microsoft would take the fight to Sony in Europe and outsell the PS4 considerably this gen. This was because everybody we spoke to from people on the sell side (like Pachter) to people on the software side were convinced that Sony wouldn't launch till 2014. We'd heard that Microsoft was pushing the notion that the the next Xbox was going to be some sort of revolutionary grand unification device for the living room very early on in the game. I think it was in late 2012 that we started hearing about Orbis but information was always very sparse right up to the launch. When Jack Tretton said they'd never be first to market we took it as confirmation that we were right and a tacit admission that Sony were ill prepared. Sony's extremely competent, frankly shockingly extensive 2/20 reveal and Microsoft's 5/21 fiasco proved how wrong we all were.

I think that what happened was that the Microsoft effort was led by marketing. They boldly announced a vision for the system to developers early and didn't really focus on the details (including the hardware) till much later. Sony decided on designing the PS4 first and evolved its vision for the platform later. Its perfectly possible that devs like Tequila and even pubs like EA were so convinced the Xbox One was going to be the easy winner this time around that they decided to get in on the action very early. I do not think that anybody saying they expected the PS4 to do as well as it has and for Xbox to be bleeding marketshare the way it is before the announcements is being honest.
Wait, a minute. You all seriously thought MS had a chance in hell in Europe considering that the PS3 (still considered a disaster) launched a year and some change later in Europe, far more expensive, and less games and STILL outsold the 360 by a considerable margin would dominate next gen when virtually all of those things would be negated?

:lol

What?

WHAT!?
 
Wait, a minute. You all seriously thought MS had a chance in hell in Europe considering that the PS3 (still considered a disaster) launched a year and some change later in Europe, far more expensive, and less games and STILL outsold the 360 by a considerable margin would dominate next gen when virtually all of those things would be negated?

:lol

What?

WHAT!?
If they were going to be a year early to market and if they managed to get enough exclusives. I never said I thought they'd win it but I definitely thought they'd do better than last gen. A closer Europe + US/UK domination + 1 year head start = easy Xbox victory. In the absence of any solid information people tend to assume the worst. Sony as a corporation seemed to be at rock bottom in early 2012. Assuming they'd screw up the PS4 wasn't a stretch.
 
Wait, a minute. You all seriously thought MS had a chance in hell in Europe considering that the PS3 (still considered a disaster) launched a year and some change later in Europe, far more expensive, and less games and STILL outsold the 360 by a considerable margin would dominate next gen when virtually all of those things would be negated?

:lol

What?

WHAT!?
Well the 360 did "OK" in Euroland.

And people expected Sony to show up late again and with a audience built with the 360 its natural to assume that people expected MS to build on its success and grow in mainland EU.

Heck there was rumours MS straight up tried to buy Fifa exclusivity early last year which I have seen mentioned have a lot of truth to them.


And no one expected Sony to do everything so flawlessly and Microsoft to fuck up at every turn, from pre reveal DRM leaks to a lame reveal to over pricing to launch and tier 1 / 2 BS.

Just a incredable set of events last year that no one saw coming.
 
Nope.

Respawn wanted to focus on a single console as they were a small team. In 2011 and 2012 microsoft was behind the scenes selling their vision for the xbox one. At the same time Sony was gathering info but not really sharing it. The vast majority of the industry thought that Microsoft was going to dominate this gen... until one year ago, tomorrow.

Respawn picked the xb1 because it seemed like the better choice. MS was pushing it. Sony was mum. The 360 dominated the US and western EU, which is where FPS are king. It was a no brainer.
Huh? UK != Western Europe.

Well the 360 did "OK" in Euroland.

And people expected Sony to show up late again and with a audience built with the 360 its natural to assume that people expected MS to build on its success and grow in mainland EU.

Heck there was rumours MS straight up tried to buy Fifa exclusivity early last year which I have seen mentioned have a lot of truth to them.


And no one expected Sony to do everything so flawlessly and Microsoft to fuck up at every turn, from pre reveal DRM leaks to a lame reveal to over pricing to launch and tier 1 / 2 BS.

Just a incredable set of events last year that no one saw coming.
It did "OK" in Europe at first but quickly sunk as the PS3 gained more and more momentum (aside from the UK, of course). Not sure why anyone would think Microsoft would somehow manage to do even better on their third attempt when the only momentum they'd displayed in that region for years was heading downwards.

Those kind of predictions seem like they're made completely oblivious of the markets they're actually talking about. Reminds me of that time Pachter said Red Dead Redemption would bomb in Europe because westerns weren't popular there.
 
This

I work on the financial side for hedge fund. Everybody from analysts like me to the Portfolio Managers that actually trade stocks in the Enetertainment/Media space were convinced that Microsoft would take the fight to Sony in Europe and outsell the PS4 considerably this gen. This was because everybody we spoke to from people on the sell side (like Pachter) to people on the software side were convinced that Sony wouldn't launch till 2014. We'd heard that Microsoft was pushing the notion that the the next Xbox was going to be some sort of revolutionary grand unification device for the living room very early on in the game. I think it was in late 2012 that we started hearing about Orbis but information was always very sparse right up to the launch. When Jack Tretton said they'd never be first to market we took it as confirmation that we were right and a tacit admission that Sony were ill prepared. Sony's extremely competent, frankly shockingly extensive 2/20 reveal and Microsoft's 5/21 fiasco proved how wrong we all were.

I think that what happened was that the Microsoft effort was led by marketing. They boldly announced a vision for the system to developers early and didn't really focus on the details (including the hardware) till much later. Sony decided on designing the PS4 first and evolved its vision for the platform later. Its perfectly possible that devs like Tequila and even pubs like EA were so convinced the Xbox One was going to be the easy winner this time around that they decided to get in on the action very early. I do not think that anybody saying they expected the PS4 to do as well as it has and for Xbox to be bleeding marketshare the way it is before the announcements is being honest.

This is amazing. We need an editorial that details what was going behind the scenes 2 years leading up to the launch of both consoles.