Best song IMO. It gets stuck in my head throughout the day.
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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS
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Best song IMO. It gets stuck in my head throughout the day.
Watched it last night and thought it was great. Only two complaints:
1. Main actress was miscast. Instead of a child soldier raised by Forest Whitaker, she came off as an extra in Pretty Little Liars.
2. CG faces
Everything else was exactly what it needed to be, and special shout out to a stellar supporting cast.
One particular moment I liked:
1. Main actress was miscast. Instead of a child soldier raised by Forest Whitaker, she came off as an extra in Pretty Little Liars.
2. CG faces
Everything else was exactly what it needed to be, and special shout out to a stellar supporting cast.
One particular moment I liked:
when whatsherface says "you can't talk your way around this one" to whatshispuss, I said to the TV "uh he's right, so he doesn't have to? And wouldn't you know he said exactly that haha
Nitpicks. I know ... it's a movie. Deal with it.
I liked the movie but there were some things I found puzzling and this is by looking at the film on its own merit ... not with supplementary comic books or novels. Those are kind of like Day 1 patches for Star Wars films.
The data vault sequence made no sense. K2-SO sealed it but the function (and assumption) is that the vault was the only way in or out with the exception of the death trap version of the Millennium Falcon top hatch from Empire Strikes Back which Jyn and Cassian get through in order to reach the dish.
When Krennic catches wind that the data vault has been breached, there's conveniently a catwalk, maintenance access door, and express elevator. It sort of meant there was more than one way into this secure area and involved literally walking over all the obstacles.
Scenic Route > K2's "optimal route"
I couldn't shake the feeling that this was a consequence of rewrites and reshoots. Instead of Jyn, Cassian, and K2-SO running from the vault to the communications tower (which seemed like a separate building from the early teaser), it was all condensed so the sequence takes place in one tower.
Lack of deleted scenes in the home release and downright downplay or existence of them or alternate cut of the movie seems to be a PR downplay of any production troubles or drama that went on during filming. There is no way they let a director go on a "shoot cool scenes and piece them together and hope it works" sort of thing with a $100+ million studio budget.
The other very minor thing with the infiltration that bugged me is why Cassian, Jyn, and K2-SO were the only ones that went to the data vault. They knocked out two Stormtroopers in addition to the weird Imperial ninja guy and Imperial officer. I get that they're short on Rebel manpower but two extra dudes disguised as Stormtroopers probably wouldn't have hurt given the odds they were against inside the building. I thought it would raise more of an eyebrow seeing two Stormtroopers enter the ship but never leave.
I get that the AT-ATs in this film were supposed to be utility vehicles? I didn't get why the Star Destroyers weren't launching Tie Fighters or why the Imperial ground forces didn't have tanks and AT-STs like they were shown on Jeddah.
Edu ... didn't know how an X-Wing/Y-Wing carpet bombing of the landing platform didn't hit Krennic's shuttle. That thing was pretty much shielded by plot armor in order to get him off the planet.
Gate shield was a neat concept but it just rose the question about how it was powered and why there wasn't any way to shut it down (like in the case of the Second Death Star, Starkiller Base, etc).
As for the digitally recreated Tarkin and Leia. I felt like the explanation that the way Gareth Edwards shot the film and the differences in lighting was a downplay on the fact that while they got most of the look down, once you start animating, things seem off. In a way, I think just showing the side of Leia's face or just a bit of her profile would have been enough. Tarkin would have worked better as the back of head and a reflection. If they would have left some of it to the viewer's imagination but we at least heard them say new dialog or remarks, it would have been better than full on uncanny valley.
I liked the movie but there were some things I found puzzling and this is by looking at the film on its own merit ... not with supplementary comic books or novels. Those are kind of like Day 1 patches for Star Wars films.
The data vault sequence made no sense. K2-SO sealed it but the function (and assumption) is that the vault was the only way in or out with the exception of the death trap version of the Millennium Falcon top hatch from Empire Strikes Back which Jyn and Cassian get through in order to reach the dish.
When Krennic catches wind that the data vault has been breached, there's conveniently a catwalk, maintenance access door, and express elevator. It sort of meant there was more than one way into this secure area and involved literally walking over all the obstacles.
Scenic Route > K2's "optimal route"
I couldn't shake the feeling that this was a consequence of rewrites and reshoots. Instead of Jyn, Cassian, and K2-SO running from the vault to the communications tower (which seemed like a separate building from the early teaser), it was all condensed so the sequence takes place in one tower.
Lack of deleted scenes in the home release and downright downplay or existence of them or alternate cut of the movie seems to be a PR downplay of any production troubles or drama that went on during filming. There is no way they let a director go on a "shoot cool scenes and piece them together and hope it works" sort of thing with a $100+ million studio budget.
The other very minor thing with the infiltration that bugged me is why Cassian, Jyn, and K2-SO were the only ones that went to the data vault. They knocked out two Stormtroopers in addition to the weird Imperial ninja guy and Imperial officer. I get that they're short on Rebel manpower but two extra dudes disguised as Stormtroopers probably wouldn't have hurt given the odds they were against inside the building. I thought it would raise more of an eyebrow seeing two Stormtroopers enter the ship but never leave.
I get that the AT-ATs in this film were supposed to be utility vehicles? I didn't get why the Star Destroyers weren't launching Tie Fighters or why the Imperial ground forces didn't have tanks and AT-STs like they were shown on Jeddah.
Edu ... didn't know how an X-Wing/Y-Wing carpet bombing of the landing platform didn't hit Krennic's shuttle. That thing was pretty much shielded by plot armor in order to get him off the planet.
Gate shield was a neat concept but it just rose the question about how it was powered and why there wasn't any way to shut it down (like in the case of the Second Death Star, Starkiller Base, etc).
As for the digitally recreated Tarkin and Leia. I felt like the explanation that the way Gareth Edwards shot the film and the differences in lighting was a downplay on the fact that while they got most of the look down, once you start animating, things seem off. In a way, I think just showing the side of Leia's face or just a bit of her profile would have been enough. Tarkin would have worked better as the back of head and a reflection. If they would have left some of it to the viewer's imagination but we at least heard them say new dialog or remarks, it would have been better than full on uncanny valley.
Inceptional
Member
I don't think anything in TFA comes close to it personally. There's a lot of quiet, slow moments in TFA score, nothing as soaring and emotional as RO imo. You're completely right about that being the best track though.
https://youtu.be/Qemb3iBlp1o
It's underwhelming.
CadetMahoney
Member
uh. whats her name? anyway she was sorta miscast but made the best with it that I don't mind.
When the film came out people's slamming Saw's involvement and exit were right. Not developed enough and not his exit was not convincing so basically he could be left out of the film entirely.
Better than TFA still.
When the film came out people's slamming Saw's involvement and exit were right. Not developed enough and not his exit was not convincing so basically he could be left out of the film entirely.
Better than TFA still.
Ahh piss. What happened to good bts features?
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I appreciate you fighting the good fight. I've long given up at this point in trying to have any decent discourse on CG/VFX.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
They take time and planning and cost a lot of money. This often conflicts with the practice of getting the film out within 3-4 months of its theatrical release.
Plus even with time and planning and money, they're still extras.
Thanks!
Yeah I guess. I loved watching bts features as a kid so I'm just a little disappointed that the they're fading out.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
I remember a cgi Audrey Hepburn chocolate commercial (ugh) a few years ago that was very impressive. I guess they cheated quite a bit and wasn't full cgi... but I wonder why a chocolate commercial could use a method more convincing than a big $$$ star wars film.
Idk. It was pretty distracting. So was Vader. He looked and sounded so weird.
Watched the movie again though. Better the second time, actually.
Idk. It was pretty distracting. So was Vader. He looked and sounded so weird.
Watched the movie again though. Better the second time, actually.
I find it weird how huge a talking point the CGI thing is. It's just a special effect when you come down to it. Even if you found Tarkin completely unconvincing....like, who cares? His presence in the movie is basically just there to harass Krennic. It's a shame that he doesn't fool you and breaks the immersion a bit, but is it really THAT big a deal since he's at best a subset of a side character's storyline? Leia is even more bizarre because her scene is just a final touch that is barely important to the story. She could be entirely cut and the movie would be unchanged. So why is her not being convincing such a big deal?
It seems odd to fixate on what are ultimately pretty minor special effects when the movie is chalk full of great ones.
It seems odd to fixate on what are ultimately pretty minor special effects when the movie is chalk full of great ones.
2Smashed4U
Banned
I legitimately didn't know Tarkin was CGI the first time I saw the movie and didn't find out until I looked it up
So far, I've noticed 4 sound effects that originated from both Star Wars animated series.
-The "hum" of the Imperial tank on Jehda is the same sound effect used for the Separatist AAT-1s from TCW.
-Baze's repeater blaster uses laser sounds that were also first heard in TCW, belonging to various parties.
-The new force choke effect is from TCW, usually heard when a Sith was choking another character such as Dooku force choking the Zygerrian queen.
- You can hear the signature laser blasts of the Ghost during the battle of Scarif, although I'm not sure if these blasts are coming from the Ghost itself or from other ships during the battle. Maybe a combination of both.
-The "hum" of the Imperial tank on Jehda is the same sound effect used for the Separatist AAT-1s from TCW.
-Baze's repeater blaster uses laser sounds that were also first heard in TCW, belonging to various parties.
-The new force choke effect is from TCW, usually heard when a Sith was choking another character such as Dooku force choking the Zygerrian queen.
- You can hear the signature laser blasts of the Ghost during the battle of Scarif, although I'm not sure if these blasts are coming from the Ghost itself or from other ships during the battle. Maybe a combination of both.
QuantumZebra
Member
Ok, I totally agree that TFA is > Rogue One (for me TFA is tied with ANH behind ESB). But Rogue One is a damn good movie.
And the CGI faces were fucking mind blowing IMO.
Yes, breaking the immersion is that big of a deal.
When watching a movie I like to sink in and forget about reality for a bit. And when I see, in an otherwise very well made movie, things that don't fit (and that could be in numerous ways other than what happened with Tarkin), that is just jarring and taking me out of the movie completely for a certain amount of time.
What makes it worse with Tarkin in that regard for me is that his bits are intersected at various times of the movie from start to finish. I would also argue that the importance of a bad special effect* to the story is not an important factor in that discussion at all.
*that being a special effect easily identified as such and thus breaking the viewer out of the immersion
Also I found Leia, who I actually knew as a character prior to watching Rogue One in the cinema not at all jarring whereas Tarkin who I, as a casual Star Wars watcher did not recall at all, extremely easily spotted as CGI. And that can't be the goal of that particular CGI.
brandonh83
Banned
Soundtrack is fantastic.
How so? How was it "damn good" from a writing perspective? What made the characters interesting? As I said, most of the cast has no character arc. Character motivations are thin. The two leads lack a compelling narrative. I found both of them to be uncharismatic.
It had some really great action sequences and a funny robot but I don't think it earned "damn good."
I respect what they did with movie so much.
Still love it even after seeing it 4 times in the theater and I didn't know if I could feel that way about Star Wars again after the prequels sort of drained the last of the enthusiasm I had for the universe.
Only thing I still don't like is the main theme. The score doesn't quite bother me as much as it did initially but that theme takes me out of the film every time I hear it pop up.
The extras are decent, not as good as for Rogue One, which really made me appreciate that movie far more even being less fond of the actual film, but I'm annoyed they didn't even bother having a director's commentary. That is something they should have been able to knock out quickly, and it could have also shed a little more light on the reshoots even if we don't get to see them.
Some more spare thoughts: the characters are great, they may not have a lot of development, but as characters, I think they have some of the most fully formed personalities in all the films. The performances in this film really carried it will some great scenes, good writing, and good acting. It also gives the best development of the Rebel Alliance as an entity and the people who make it up. K2SO is so good, it's the kind of humor that just can fit a character like that so well and still makes me laugh without feeling too corny or overdone. The CGi faces are noticeable but I think people talk make them a bigger deal than they are since it's clear that Kushing isn't even alive to play the part and Fisher is was much older at the time. They are pretty well done in most of Tarkin's scene and I think only the lighting is the sometimes iffy part. I still don't really care for Vader's first scene on Mustafar. It was something that sounds better on paper than in execution. The old costume is a nice touch but between that and JEJ's sounding so different, Vader just feels off and the pun at the end just ruins it.
I still feel time will remember this film more fondly than most Star Wars films. In that way, the comparisons to Empire have always been pretty fitting, beyond having a bit more serious tone.
Still love it even after seeing it 4 times in the theater and I didn't know if I could feel that way about Star Wars again after the prequels sort of drained the last of the enthusiasm I had for the universe.
Only thing I still don't like is the main theme. The score doesn't quite bother me as much as it did initially but that theme takes me out of the film every time I hear it pop up.
The extras are decent, not as good as for Rogue One, which really made me appreciate that movie far more even being less fond of the actual film, but I'm annoyed they didn't even bother having a director's commentary. That is something they should have been able to knock out quickly, and it could have also shed a little more light on the reshoots even if we don't get to see them.
Some more spare thoughts: the characters are great, they may not have a lot of development, but as characters, I think they have some of the most fully formed personalities in all the films. The performances in this film really carried it will some great scenes, good writing, and good acting. It also gives the best development of the Rebel Alliance as an entity and the people who make it up. K2SO is so good, it's the kind of humor that just can fit a character like that so well and still makes me laugh without feeling too corny or overdone. The CGi faces are noticeable but I think people talk make them a bigger deal than they are since it's clear that Kushing isn't even alive to play the part and Fisher is was much older at the time. They are pretty well done in most of Tarkin's scene and I think only the lighting is the sometimes iffy part. I still don't really care for Vader's first scene on Mustafar. It was something that sounds better on paper than in execution. The old costume is a nice touch but between that and JEJ's sounding so different, Vader just feels off and the pun at the end just ruins it.
I still feel time will remember this film more fondly than most Star Wars films. In that way, the comparisons to Empire have always been pretty fitting, beyond having a bit more serious tone.
Sure, and I agree that breaking immersion is bad, so I sympathize with people who couldn't see past the CGI.
The thing is, I rarely see this sort of thing discussed to this extent. It's one of the central pillars of discussion about the movie.
I think the last movie I've seen a single element have this much spotlight shone on it was Talia's death scene in TDKR. Personally, that I think the focus on even that is overblown, I do understand it because it was the climactic finish of the battle and of the entire trilogy and it was a particularly bad note to end things on.
Tarkin is just such a minor note in the film though. So even if I were to agree with you that it is indeed immersion breaking, I find it odd that people are THIS fixated on it.
RadioactiveLobster
Member
Just finished all the bonus behind the scenes stuff, well, what there was of it.
Have to say it's made me enjoy some of the characters a bit more (in particular Saw)
I think the CGI looks better this time around than it did in the theater which is odd considering they didn't change anything. Maybe it just looks better on a smaller screen.
Have to say it's made me enjoy some of the characters a bit more (in particular Saw)
I think the CGI looks better this time around than it did in the theater which is odd considering they didn't change anything. Maybe it just looks better on a smaller screen.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The thing that seems weird to me is the idea that Tarkin is immediate and jarring but Leia just flies right on by with not much problem.
Of the two, Leia's implementation is the worse.
I don't think that's necessarily a problem with a Men on a Mission movie. The plot itself is the focus, and how we move from plot point to plot point takes precedence over who is doing it. The hope is that characterizations get filled in along the way in how the actions are carried out—you learn about people's personalities as they're doing the things they need to do. This isn't a thing that's particular to war films/men on a mission films, of course. A good recent example is Fury Road, and that's definitely not a war movie.
But sometimes, the arc doesn't need to be all that lofty. It just needs to be defined.
I'm not going to say Jyn Erso is all that interesting. Or Cassian Andor (although he's probably more interesting than Jyn is, if I had to pick) but I don't think any of these characters are ciphers, either. Maybe I'm grading Edwards on a curve here - I probably am. But in that context, and even in the context of other Star Wars movies, there's more than a few moments that sketch in just enough of the characters that I feel a little something when they go. This doesn't always happen in Star Wars.
I don't need or want the movie to stop down for more back 'n' forths like the Cargo Hold fight after Eadu, really.
I figure it's one of the main talking points due to it being the one thing that splits opinions in the movie the harshest. There are a lot of people that didn't notice it, while to others (like me sadly) it was the complete opposite, who can't fathom how this would go by unnoticed.
Also in my case at least it's not like it necessarily hampered my enjoyment of the whole movie that much, I still did enjoy Rogue One greatly. But whenever Tarkin was onscreen I was just taken out of it for the time he was visible and a bit after.
It's probably a matter of contrast, as alluded to before. For me everything else was so very well made and then there are the scenes with Tarkin which made me wonder why I'm suddenly staring at the uncanny valley each time.
I disagree, but this may be due to several factors like getting used to uncanny valley CGI with Tarkin, or Leia being at the very end of the movie or her not having as much screen time/movement as Tarkin had.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Glass Shark
Banned
Just an interesting note... I have not been compelled to rewatch this now that it's out on home video like I was with The Force Awakens. I think a lot of it has to do with the messy first third and the fact that it doesn't seem like a movie my daughter would be interested in. She LOVES The Force Awakens, and we've watched it together a bunch, but I don't think she would have the same reaction to this. A little more heady and not so clear-cut "mean guy vs. good girl"
Haloid1177
Banned
See I'm the opposite. I like being able to watch Rogue One and jump right into ANH for a full, complete story. Every time I watch TFA and it ends with Luke I'm like, "Well all I want is Episode VIII now." Really curious how I'll judge the new trilogy as a whole because individually seems almost unfair right now.
The criticism of CGI faces for characters whose actors have passed on in a prequel to a movie that is 30+ years old is just immaturity to me. Get over it. It's a required thing when the characters actor isn't available and there is no look alike.
Man so many movies must be terrible to you. I am legend, the entire Harry Potter series, LOTR, Terminator 2/3/4, any of the marvel and DC movies, Blade series, I can go on.
For me, Leia was part of a fleeting moment, but Tarkin was far more prominent throughout the movie. It's easier to forgive in the case of Leia because the moment itself is powerful enough and it's brief enough to override any weirdness (I mean, I kind of feel that way for Tarkin overall too, but he's still more distracting just because he's there more). It's also capping off emotional climax after emotional climax. Every main character dying, getting the plans out, Darth Vader unleashing, all that Giacchino music, etc. By the time you get to Leia you're riding such a high that you just keep gliding right past the uncanny valley.
Also, going back to earlier in the discussion, about Leia's demeanor in that last scene seeming incongruous compared to ANH, I don't know. I think it was probably the right call to end Rogue One on a lighter, happier moment with Leia considering what happened before that. I can certainly understand why the filmmakers landed there. You want that optimistic feeling of hope after running through that gauntlet. At least it felt appropriate to me.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I understand why they thought they needed her to be happier there, and for the movie to be happier there. I just disagree with it - especially since I don't feel what they were actually trying to do with that moment got landed.
They reached for a wrong note and still missed it.
But it's just the one note. And it's really brief.
You make it sound like he is weird for calling it damn good. You realize Rogue One was very strong reviews from critics and had really good box office legs right?
Critically it was seen as a "damn good" movie.
Box office legs show audiences saw it as a "damn good" movie.
Fury Road is actually a great counter example to this film. Max, Furiosa and Nux all have well crafted arcs and in what little dialogue they have they are much better developed as characters you care about.
I really wanted to like the Rogue One more than I did but I just found myself struggling to connect with the characters.
As I said, I liked the droid. I felt strong dislike towards Saw and indifference towards everyone else.
Well as long as were are taking critical consensus as a marker for quality I'll point out that the film sits at 65 on metacritic.
I'm pretty sure every Star Wars film has had BO legs, including the shitty prequels.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't know that it's a great one as Fury Road is kind of an outlier. It's maybe one of the most efficient movies I've ever seen in my life.
Stuff like Inglorious Basterds, Dirty Dozen, The Big Red One... the characterization in those films. Maybe even ALIENS. You don't really get arcs with any of those people. I mean, they're there. They're just really slight. But there's a definition to them, and the people bringing them to life lent some serious personality to those slight arcs.
Rogue One is an outlier for Star Wars because it's not a movie designed for the Hero's Journey shit to jump out of. None of its characters are really going on that journey. It's underpinnings aren't all that mythological (although they're obviously present). It's just normal people in service of a smaller piece of the larger story.
Clones didn't. Not sure that Sith did, either.
Lifejumper
Member
It has a 85% RT score with a 7.5 average rating. I think thats considered "damn good"? Strictly talking about critical consensus ofcourse.
The problem with RT is that it's a binary system - Fresh or Rotten. The majority of reviews could grade it a "C" and it could still be at 85%. There is no gradient.
"C" is about what I would give it so I'm not surprised that the MC score is 65. Like I said, it's not a bad movie, especially for a blockbuster Hollywood film. It's just very average. IMO, of course.
For what its worth, I enjoyed Rogue One far more than Godzilla.
Lifejumper
Member
I prefer it to metacritics weighing system and assigning scores to unscored reviews. And i think the person that submits the review to RT decides if its rotten or fresh, so a C can still be considered rotten.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
There was a whole thread about this recently, I'm pretty sure (at least I remember bloviating in it) but Metacritic is actually somewhat worse than RT for getting any real sense of the critical reception to a movie, and it also hides its work from people who wish to know how the score was arrived at. RT will let you get granular to a degree Metacritic never will because of that.
And since this is a gaming forum, it makes sense that Metacritic would be the go-to for people considering how tightly ingrained into that industry it's become (stupidly, and unfairly, but nevertheless) but Metacritic doesn't work as well for films, and isn't objectively better an aggregate than RT at all.
You're basically arguing that Metacritic provides a better, more accurate aggregate because it's closer to the grade you'd have assigned. That's pretty much just confirmation bias.
And since this is a gaming forum, it makes sense that Metacritic would be the go-to for people considering how tightly ingrained into that industry it's become (stupidly, and unfairly, but nevertheless) but Metacritic doesn't work as well for films, and isn't objectively better an aggregate than RT at all.
You're basically arguing that Metacritic provides a better, more accurate aggregate because it's closer to the grade you'd have assigned. That's pretty much just confirmation bias.
I don't really think aggregators are much to go by, regardless. But that's another discussion.
I don't know, maybe. But I find MC averages are often much closer to my feelings towards a film than RT's. It's flawed, either way. I usually decide on seeing a film based more on the pullquotes and what interests me in a movie.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Its all in how you use 'em.
Metacritic is pretty much never widely used at all for movie scoring outside of GAF. Because of like you said the gaming culture aspect. RT is the standard pretty much every where else except this forum.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Give reading the actual reviews a try! Like, if a pullquote jumps out at you, click the full review.
I've said it before, but RT shouldn't really be a guide to which movie you're seeing that week. It should be a means by which you figure out which critics to pay attention to.
Yeah, that's what I do. Isn't that what most people do?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Unfortunately, no!
The guy in the Vader suit is pretty awful at acting compared to the original, the way he moves and stands is so whatever. It just doesn't come across well, did they allow him to speak while acting ? His about turn before unleashing at the end was so lacking and I think the darkness helped immensely to cover up the Vader flaws in the last scene. It was still cool to see but a bit off.
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