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[Montresor]

I used to very smugly say "I think Walking Dead is a terrible show". I've recently been rewatching Walking Dead on Netflix and I've taken pretty much a complete 180 on my feelings with this series. I used to think - Season 1 is great, but Season 2 and 3 are awful fluff.

As I've slowly been progressing through Seasons 1-4, I started to remember why I originally felt so negatively about the show. And it was mainly Lori and Andrea. Lori going from telling Rick that Shane needs to be put down, to then encouraging Shane's ego, to then getting really upset at Rick when Rick says he killed Shane. That whole sequence of events soured the show for me. I found that to be pretty silly, along with Andrea, and her smug, self-satisfied smile when she shot Daryl in the face in Season 2 (girl, Dale told you not to shoot!).

I don't know what changed for me, but those two moments just matter a lot less for me. Right now I'm absolutely loving the show. And now - onto the main reason I've created this thread: A discussion of the overwhelming despair gripping me (the viewer) and the characters that I love in the show.

It started midway through Season 3 - when Lori passed away. I legitimately broke into tears when I saw Rick's reaction. But some time passes, and Rick builds a formidable mini society at the prison, deep into Season 4. He has a group that far eclipses (in numbers) anything they ever had at the camp outside Atlanta in Season 1 and the farm in Season 2.

At the end of Season 4 Episode 8, the Governor somehow convinces a bunch of ordinary people to become outright savages. With either smiles on their faces or determined looks (almost no hint of any doubt/hesitation, except for the bad ass lesbian "Atlanta city cop"), they storm in on the prison and commit an unjustified atrocity.

This is when the feeling of overwhelming sadness has started to grip me. The look on Rick's face right after he was beaten to a pulp by the governor makes me feel so bad. To me it doesn't even matter that the Governor died. He didn't suffer enough. He caused so much suffering in the world in just ~30 minutes at the prison. Michonne ended up killing the Governor and saving Rick, sure. But Rick looked defeated. He was broken. And I haven't shed any more tears for this show yet (I've only cried when Rick found out Lori died), but everything about this show just screams: "Hey, here are the characters you love - now they're all alone, broken, and will never find any happiness".

I love it - this is extraordinary television to me. It's so wonderful and compelling. But it hurts too. On one hand it's fantastic the way the story is following all the different fractured parts of the group (Rick + Carl + Michonne, and then Glenn all alone with the bad ass lesbian, and Maggie with Bob/Sasha, and Tyreese with the kids, Carol and Judith - I screamed yes when I saw this, hahah - and finally Beth + Daryl). But on the other hand, no one in the group is happy.

Seeing Carl lash out at Rick in the early set of episodes after Season 4 Episode 8 just made me so sad. Rick had no ground to stand on - the son he loves his laying it on thick, verbally smacking him down left and right, but Rick is too weak to talk back, and even if he was strong enough, too much of a failure at protecting his own family to come up with any convincing counter argument to Carl. Everything about how these past few episodes have unfolded is just so sad.

 

[Skilletor]

This is when the feeling of overwhelming sadness has started to grip me. The look on Rick's face right after he was beaten to a pulp by the governor makes me feel so bad. To me it doesn't even matter that the Governor died. He didn't suffer enough. He caused so much suffering in the world in just ~30 minutes at the prison. Michonne ended up killing the Governor and saving Rick, sure. But Rick looked defeated. He was broken. And I haven't shed any more tears for this show yet (I've only cried when Rick found out Lori died), but everything about this show just screams: "Hey, here are the characters you love - now they're all alone, broken, and will never find any happiness".

I agree with much of your post, but for the bolded, really...read the comic. If just for what you said here.

 

[Montresor]

I agree with much of your post, but for the bolded, really...read the comic. If just for what you said here.

Do you mean that there's worse suffering in the comics?

 

[dustyherb]

Do you mean that there's worse suffering in the comics?

It kinda depends on what comic arc, like the prison era in the comics was a whole lot worse compared to the show. I would honestly read the comic if you ever get the chance, it's fantastic and still going strong.

Also I pretty much share the same feelings about the earlier seasons. Don't get me wrong there's a lot of things I love about those first three seasons. Especially Shane and the Governor. But to me the show didn't hit it's stride until season 4, and in my opinion every season since has been better.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Show has progressively gotten better. Lovinnnn it.

#teamrick

also nobody tell the OP what happens LOL

 

[CocaMantis]

Read the comics. If not all, just the Governor arc. That part it's way, way, waaaay better than the show (I'll never understand WHY they changed so much stuff and pretty much ruin a hell of an arc).

 

[Montresor]

It kinda depends on what comic arc, like the prison era in the comics was a whole lot worse compared to the show. I would honestly read the comic if you ever get the chance, it's fantastic and still going strong.

Also I pretty much share the same feelings about the earlier seasons. Don't get me wrong there's a lot of things I love about those first three seasons. Especially Shane and the Governor. But to me the show didn't hit it's stride until season 4, and in my opinion every season since has been better.

Read the comics. If not all, just the Governor arc. That part it's way, way, waaaay better than the show (I'll never understand WHY they changed so much stuff and pretty much ruin a hell of an arc).

I have read a couple of the comics. Once I finish these 6 Netflix seasons I'll try to borrow the full comics series from my friend (or just buy them myself).

Show has progressively gotten better. Lovinnnn it.

#teamrick

also nobody tell the OP what happens LOL

I'll admit it - the reason I started watching the show again is because I read someone in a Walking Dead spoiler thread on GAF talk about something related to Rick + Carl occurring really late in the show. Sooo, I know something really bad will happen involving those two, and that adds to my anxiety a bit while watching the show. I'm not upset at knowing this by the way - the spoiler I read sounds incredible and reinvigorated my passion for the show.

The spoiler (possibly from very late in the Walking Dead series):

Spoiler

Apparently Rick has to cut Carl's arm off some point? Someone on GAF was saying how the whole scene was shot from Rick's POV and added to the gritty discomfort of the scene, and how it broke Rick

.

 

[Lys Skygge]

I was exactly like you OP. After season 3 I did a complete 180 on how I felt about the show. And while 4 is good, the next couple of seasons are even better, and the current season is so far fantastic. I haven't felt this excited for a show since Breaking Bad.

 

[old manatee]

My favorite part of the Walking Dead is that basically everyone has PTSD and it rarely loses sight of that.

 

[Fuu]

Do you mean that there's worse suffering in the comics?

the comics are narratively stronger and do a much better job with balancing those things in comparison to the show. the show has great moments and some amazing acting, but in the sense of a story being told the comics are just better.

even if one drops the show i'd still suggest giving the comics a try. there's sadness and it's bleak, but you always get why these characters are still fighting, and how those events are making them stronger and even hopeful.

 

[Lothar]

Season 4 Episode 8 is definitely one of the best episodes. Episodes like that are why I keep watching, even though there's probably many more episodes I hate or am bored by. The show is always up and down for me. I really hate the episodes right after it that you mentioned for example. Carl shittalking his dad who just lost his infant daughter and being a annoying whiny disrespectful asshole for a hour. I was rooting for the zombies to get Carl in that episode.

After you finish watching the show, I also recommend Walking Dead the video game. It has a surprisingly great story.

 

[mariachi507]

I'm with you OP, starting from season 4 the show starts soaring in quality. It's only held back by moments that are designed purely for hashtags and to get ratings. Aside from that, the characters progression into who they are now at season 7 is great. I want to go into more about specific characters but I won't spoil you.

I feel alone in my praise most of the time though, it seems most people will read what I just wrote and think I'm crazy. I had all but quit the show after season 3, but luckily I got bored one weekend and binged season 4 and was impressed. It only got better from there, and I'm often puzzled about how much the show gets shit on. Every now and then I'll get a comment about how the show was better when it was set at the farm, or somebody will say that they miss Andrea. I must have watched a different show.

 

[Montresor]

So I'm up to around the middle of season 5 on Netflix (I believe season 5 episode 6).

I'm kind of shocked that the show has been able to maintain such a consistently high quality, ever since the beginning of season 4.

I cried again by the way - when

Spoiler

Daryl broke down and cried with Beth, sad that he couldn't stop the Governor from attacking the prison

.

The writing is incredible. They keep coming up with scenarios that make me think "This is really, really, really messed up. This is depraved and unjust. Why does my favourite character have to be subjected to this. "

 

[Grizzlyjin]

I've said this a million times, but The Walking Dead is one of the few shows that has gotten better as it went along. Yes, the pilot was very strong. But it was pretty middling after that. Season 2 as a whole was a disaster. They've experimented more with their formula and the show has improved for it. Does it still have dumb moments? Oh yes. But the show overall has grown remarkably under Gimple. If this was the same show that it was in Season 2 or 3, I would've dropped it by now.

 

[Skilletor]

Do you mean that there's worse suffering in the comics?

I was specifically talking about the governor's fate.

The caveat to that is what happens to Michonne is much, much, much, much worse.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

It's a 7.5/10 show and completely lost me at what I consider one of the shittiest season finales I've ever seen on television. I don't really care for it anymore to be honest, but it had some great highs between moments. Now I'm going to go hide behind a dumpster to be safe since I imagine my view isn't a favorable one.

 

[iPaul93]

I still remember watching the first season back in 2010,what a piece of shit.The show has gotten better with time.

 

[ZackieChan]

Read the comics. If not all, just the Governor arc. That part it's way, way, waaaay better than the show (I'll never understand WHY they changed so much stuff and pretty much ruin a hell of an arc).

The half-assed invasion before the final invasion was so terrible. So disappointed in that.

Show has gotten way better, barring a few missteps, since the beginning of Season 5. Haven't seen the latest, so hopefully no a-hole spoils it in here.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

The most powerful episode in my opinion is the one where Shane and co are against the idea of walkers being kept in the barn despite being family and friends of Hershall's. They bust open the doors and mow em down while their family watches. This all going against Rick's commands who wants to respect their host's wishes.

Only when Carol's daughter comes out, one of their own, do they stop, hesitate and show remorse. It's Rick who bucks up and takes the shot to save his crew's dignity as everyone watches on.

The hairs on my face stand on end when i think of it.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I'm pretty sure I tapped out by S4. Awful show imo, and my only regret is not quitting sooner.

 

[dave is ok]

The show doesn't hold a candle to Carl Poppa

 

[KraytarJ]

I dropped out earlier this year after last season's half finale and I tried getting back into it on Netflix a few weeks back but it's just so boring.

 

[commish]

The show doesn't hold a candle to Carl Poppa

Well that's the best thing I've watched all week. Ty.

 

[Lasthope106]

The show went downhill in S2 and it slowly recuperated and reached it's peak around S5 for me. S6 went downhill, and S7 so far has been disappointing.

I usually get caught up on my current TV shows on Monday and I watch them back-to-back. Doing that really illustrates the current quality of the writing. When you compare something that is really good like WestWorld and the watch TWD you begin to question why you have stuck with this show for so long.

 

[Jigorath]

I liked season 1, that's about it. The show's writing kept getting dumber so I quit around season 5. No idea why I stuck with it for so long.

 

[MulderYuffie]

The show got better for sure as it went on.Season 1 is just okay. Season 2 is awful overall and Season 3 is a step in the right direction except Andrea. Seasons 4 and 5 have been the best while season 6 slides a little bit but still overall good I feel Season 7 so far has been better than 6 at least.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

This is when the feeling of overwhelming sadness has started to grip me. The look on Rick's face right after he was beaten to a pulp by the governor makes me feel so bad. To me it doesn't even matter that the Governor died. He didn't suffer enough. He caused so much suffering in the world in just ~30 minutes at the prison. Michonne ended up killing the Governor and saving Rick, sure. But Rick looked defeated. He was broken. And I haven't shed any more tears for this show yet (I've only cried when Rick found out Lori died), but everything about this show just screams: "Hey, here are the characters you love - now they're all alone, broken, and will never find any happiness".

But they did find it again. And then they lost it. And then they got it back again.

And now Rick is defeated. He is broken. Again.

I like the show (sans the fillers), but it does kinda pull that one over and over again

 

[Arkeband]

TWD lost me for good in the S6 mid-season cliffhanger, where they literally retconned the fucking cliffhanger out of the show.

I tuned in to watch the S7E1 opener but I'm done with the aimless, self-inflicted misery of this group.

Fear the Walking Dead was good but then S2 lobotomized that group too.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

I like the show (sans the fillers), but it does kinda pull that one over and over again

Its a show set in the apocalypse.
The only things they have to fight for are their survival and happiness, the very things the world is designed to take away.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

Season 4 is where I gave up on the show. It was just so dull and I didn't like any of the characters, I wouldn't care if they all died.

 

[T Dollarz]

Yeah I bailed after the governor and prison storyline, whenever that was. I regret not quitting sooner. I wanted to for a while and hung with it just cause I pretty much thought everything about it was terrible.

It's sad having the show's best episode of the entire series be the pilot.

 

[TheYanger]

I'm pretty sure I tapped out by S4. Awful show imo, and my only regret is not quitting sooner.

And yet you still feel compelled to come in here and let everyone know that you literally know nothing about what the post is about. Sounds about right for the average Walking Dead hater.

 

[Takyon]

I liked the invasion sequence in season 4, but I was also frustrated at the inherent irony within the situation that none of the characters seemed to grasp. To fight for a safe place such as the prison inevitably results in it's destruction. You are forced to destroy the fortifications that keep the walkers out and all the racket from the gunfire and fighting draws every single walker in from the surrounding area.

I really wish the people under the Governor had realized the futility of the situation.

 

[Future]

This is when the feeling of overwhelming sadness has started to grip me. The look on Rick's face right after he was beaten to a pulp by the governor makes me feel so bad. To me it doesn't even matter that the Governor died. He didn't suffer enough. He caused so much suffering in the world in just ~30 minutes at the prison. Michonne ended up killing the Governor and saving Rick, sure. But Rick looked defeated. He was broken. And I haven't shed any more tears for this show yet (I've only cried when Rick found out Lori died), but everything about this show just screams: "Hey, here are the characters you love - now they're all alone, broken, and will never find any happiness".

That is a key moment in their character arcs and truly shapes things to come.

One thing that really works well in the show is seeing how much the core cast character arcs change the longer they survive.

 

[Corpekata]

Wish I could get half that invested. The character work is so uneven in this show that when things get fucked up for them, it doesn't register for me the way it does on shows with interesting or likable characters. It registers on a basic human level, sure, but very few shows can't manage that.

 

[Toa TAK]

After the pilot, this is my favorite episode of the show.

I quit the show during season 6. It became really monotonous for me, but this episode, hell, that season's first half was some of the best they've done since the show started up to that point.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Im baffled you can get invested in those brain dead characters but hey glad someone is enjoying it.

 

[LifEndz]

You thought the governor convincing a group of strangers to risk their lives attacking another group of strangers, that mind you had never attacked or even encountered them, was good television? That's when the show's quality of writing took a precipitous nosedive to me. Factor in what they did to Andrea, a personal favorite from the comics, and season 4 was an absolute dumpster fire. Infinitely worse than season2 imo.

 

[Dalek]

I'm of the opinion that the show has gotten better each season pretty much. There are occasional clunker episodes but for the most part I think it gets better and better and builds on it's strengths.

 

[ZackieChan]

Im baffled you can get invested in those brain dead characters but hey glad someone is enjoying it.

Thanks for the input

I'm of the opinion that the show has gotten better each season pretty much. There are occasional clunker episodes but for the most part I think it gets better and better and builds on it's strengths.

Yeah, this is so true. Lots of people love the first season, but I don't think it's all that amazing. Show didn't hit its stride until Season 4, sadly, but it's been great since. I love seeing the attempts to move on past just killing the occasional zombie in the woods and live in the larger world as communities.

 

[Montresor]

Wow, I give up precisely at Season 6 Episode 15. My Netflix episode is literally paused at this exact same moment: Carol has gone missing and Rick and Morgan are looking for her. Morgan says "I've talked to the people back at Alexandria, people that used to be at the prison. They said Carol killed two of your people, and you sent her away." Rick says "Well she did the right thing. They were sick and spreading disease".

No. I'm done. I would love to see Rick say that to Tyreese's face and see what will fucking happen. I refuse to believe that the person that Rick is, could ever rationalize to himself that what Carol did to those two people at the prison is okay. She murdered two innocent people, dragged them away from their prison cells, and burned them, and she did it secretly. That's the most messed up part - she did it secretly. And one of those people is someone Tyreese loved. That is a fucked up thing to do and none of the heavy things that Rick and his group have done since then could justify suddenly changing one's opinion on that atrocity that Carol committed. She committed murder, against two innocent people. Sending her away was the right move. She was allowed back in the group because she redeemed herself by rescuing the group from Terminus. And Tyreese even forgave her. But at the heat of the moment, when first learning Carol murdered those two people, I'm supposed to believe Rick would ever in a million years entertain changing his original stance and saying "She did the right thing"'? No.

I'm done, but I've seen this (me giving up on the show) coming since the beginning of Season 6. Season 6 has been mediocre at worst and good at best - that doesn't sound like a scathing testimonial but it's a far cry from the excellence of season 4 and 5. It's becoming clear to me that this show has no end in sight and they're just going to move from community to community endlessly. A couple of things have rubbed me the wrong way with Season 6:

*Playing house in the early parts of the Alexandria story, especially with the way Carol put on her "grandma" blue knitted cardigan/sweater, was cringeworthy

*The group agreeing to attack Negan's group without knowing how many people Negan's group has. I wish I could be cheering and saying "Yeah they killed all the Saviors at the satellite building" but it was so uncharacteristically unwise for them to go in with so little intelligence! Really annoyed me!

*They picked an awful actor for Sam (the child whose blonde mother Rick had as a side piece in the middle of the Alexandria storyline).

*And now this whole hyperventilating gimmick Carol is performing is really pissing me off. Because everytime it happens, I think "Why are they ruining Carol's character - there's no way this hard woman would ever hyperventilate like this". And then they pull a "Gotcha hahahaha she's still hard guys, don't worry!!!" I should be blaming myself because this is me being fooled two times in a row, but even ignoring my gullibility, the whole shtick is just really awkward and cringeworthy. Please, Carol, stop with the whole "I'm going to pretend to hyperventilate" thing.

*Morgan. That fucking piece of shit Morgan. I get that he doesn't want to kill anyone anymore, but he missed a vital lesson from the cheesemaker. The cheesemaker has indeed adopted a philosophy that says you can't kill anyone, no matter how evil they are. But Morgan, dude, the cheesemaker FUCKING TOLD YOU that when he used to be a psychologist interviewing candidates for parole / release from prison, sometimes he could tell when someone was completely beyond salvation and had to stay behind bars forever. How Morgan missed that vital lesson I won't know. Morgan can continue to be a conscientious objector and he can continue to refuse to kill anyone, but it really upset me that he kept the long-haired "W" goon as a prisoner and put so much faith in being able to rehabilitate him. Carol wants to put him down? Morgan, bitch please, let her do her work. The long-haired "W" guy is irredeemable!

*Back to the long-haired "W" guy. I hope I didn't miss subtle details but it appears like the writers attempted to convince the viewers that long-haired "W" guy was redeemable. You know that scene where he's running with Denise and has an open shot to the ladder, but Denise gets held up so he turns back to "help" her and gets bit? I'm convinced the writers think that was a cleverly-written "See? He's redeemed guys!" moment. But it wasn't. He's irredeemable. As far as I'm concerned that is an immutable fact. He's irredeemable! Nothing you've shown us about this character could ever convince a sane person that long-haired "W" guy could ever be redeemable! Oh, so he went back to "help" Denise? No - he wanted someone to rape and keep him warm at night. He didn't want to help Denise. He's a psychopath. Don't try to pull the wool over my eyes and try to tell me that in one-split-second moment this human piece of trash is suddenly trying to become a good guy when he goes back to get Denise. Don't insult me.

 

[Timeaisis]

Well, you're in for a real treat when it takes a giant dive into mediocrity.

 

[blame space]

who watched the walking dead since season 2?

 

[Subpar Spatula]

When I watched the show, I felt nothing for the characters. They're written quite bad so I just see cardboard characters being attacked as they all headshot zombi-- walkers. For a zombie show they never got horror or commentary right. I'm honestly baffled as to what the show is about now.