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RTTP: Sega Genesis & Sega Saturn *Action game explosion*

I love to go back to old action games. It reaffirms to me as I get older that my gamer skills aren't melting away.

I never see people mention Hyperstone Heist. I suppose that's rightly so - the arcade game was Turtles In Time, and the version that was obviously more faithful to that was the one on SNES by the same name. But that's not to say that Hyperstone Heist isn't a good game. It's a solid beat-em-up that controls very well - I'd say better than Turtles In Time. The run button makes a huge difference. I recently ran through Hyperstone Heist on hard without dying, and it was quite a fun challenge.

Contra Hard Corps, Rocket Knight Adventures, Gunstar Heroes, Castlevania Bloodlines, Streets of Rage .. Genesis had a lot of great games. Being able to play them on the go with the Nomad was really sweet too. Edit: I forgot Beyond Oasis, and I shouldn't have. Such a great game. I only wish it were longer. I played Legend of Oasis later and was generally very disappointed. I'm probably in the minority on that though.
 
The other Irem game with very Metal Slug-esque graphics is the submarine shmuplike In the Hunt (arcade/ps1/saturn, best on ps1). It's a pretty good game, and I love the visuals (looks just like Metal Slug!), but it's not quite as fun as the Metal Slug games are.

Well there really isnt much that can compare to the first 3 Metal Slug games, but if it comes even close, thats another i'll add to the list. Never can have too many co-op games.

In other news Deep Fear and Astal JP versions just arrived today. Deep Fear is one of those early gen survival horror titles, complete with bad english voice acting and interesting scenario. The item descriptions are all in japanese, but I figure i've played enough survival horror titles to know whats up (that and most of the HUD and all the voice acting is in english). It's a 2 disc game, but looking at a review, I should be just fine even when using the 4m Plus.

Astal of course, should be pretty straightforward. Never beat the NA version back in the day, and its been awhile...so the game should feel pretty new to me. Still shocked how much worse the case/disc art was in North America compared to the Japanese case/disc art.
 
Well there really isnt much that can compare to the first 3 Metal Slug games, but if it comes even close, thats another i'll add to the list. Never can have too many co-op games.
Yeah, it is good. It is one of those rare 2d games better on the PS1 than the Saturn, though. The Saturn port (both versions got US home releases, interestingly) is basically a straight arcade port, complete with the arcade slowdown, PCM music, and complete lack of saving, but the PS1 version significantly reduces the slowdown, adds an optional CD audio soundtrack (the arcade PCM is available as well), and has highscore save to a memory card. It's not cheap, though... heck, the US Saturn version might even be cheaper. But there is a reason for the PS1 version's cost.

In other news Deep Fear and Astal JP versions just arrived today. Deep Fear is one of those early gen survival horror titles, complete with bad english voice acting and interesting scenario. The item descriptions are all in japanese, but I figure i've played enough survival horror titles to know whats up (that and most of the HUD and all the voice acting is in english). It's a 2 disc game, but looking at a review, I should be just fine even when using the 4m Plus.

Astal of course, should be pretty straightforward. Never beat the NA version back in the day, and its been awhile...so I should the game should feel pretty new to me. Still shocked how much worse the case/disc art was in North America compared to the Japanese case/disc art.
I assume the Euro version of Deep Fear costs a lot, which is why you didn't get it?

But yeah, as for Astal, it does have a story. Obviously it's nothing complex, but if you care, watch the cutscenes on youtube or something, I imagine they're there.

I love to go back to old action games. It reaffirms to me as I get older that my gamer skills aren't melting away.

I never see people mention Hyperstone Heist. I suppose that's rightly so - the arcade game was Turtles In Time, and the version that was obviously more faithful to that was the one on SNES by the same name. But that's not to say that Hyperstone Heist isn't a good game. It's a solid beat-em-up that controls very well - I'd say better than Turtles In Time. The run button makes a huge difference. I recently ran through Hyperstone Heist on hard without dying, and it was quite a fun challenge.

Contra Hard Corps, Rocket Knight Adventures, Gunstar Heroes, Castlevania Bloodlines, Streets of Rage .. Genesis had a lot of great games. Being able to play them on the go with the Nomad was really sweet too. Edit: I forgot Beyond Oasis, and I shouldn't have. Such a great game. I only wish it were longer. I played Legend of Oasis later and was generally very disappointed. I'm probably in the minority on that though.
I don't like Hyperstone Heist very much. It's probably the worst of the four 3rd and 4th gen TMNT beat 'em ups... the story's a rehash of TMNT III and IV, the levels are boring and have no complexity, and their basic concepts all come from the first three games too, they put no thought into the graphical design (seriously, what IS up with those sewer levels with blue ground... it's not water, because you don't splash in it, you just walk over it...), every level is just "walk right until you hit the end", quite unlike the great level designs of TMNT III on the NES, it's got far too few levels... it's pretty disappointing. Just like those other games I mentioned -- Castlevania Bloodlines, Genesis TMNT: Tournament Fighters, Tiny Toon Adventures ACME All-Stars, and Sunset Riders, when you compare them to SNES games in the same franchises, it's very clear which ones had the budgets, and it's not the Genesis ones. Contra: Hard Corps and the Genesis-first new IP Rocket Knight Adventures are their only real exceptions to that. Konami didn't port any of their shmups over to the Genesis (or Sega CD), either, and that was their other core genre that gen. They had shmups on TG16, TGCD, and SNES, and the Genesis is regarded as a great shmup platform, but Konami didn't bring any of its over to it. Instead, it was mostly platformers and platform-action games. And platformers are great, and some of Konami's are too, but... Turbo CD got Dracula X, SNES got Super Castlevania IV, and all the Genesis gets is... Bloodlines? Poor Sega... :( I think that because the Genesis was far behind in third place in Japan, it got second and third-tier efforts from Konami for the most part. There were a few exceptions, but only a few.

(No, I don't like Bloodlines very much either. It's not an awful game, but sort of like Hyperstone Heist and Genesis Sunset Riders, the game has a relatively small number of overly long levels. I don't know why three of Konami's Genesis games all share that flaw, but they do. And Bloodlines' controls are a complete pain, too -- why in the world did they make it so that one character can attack diagonally while jumping but not while on the ground, while for the other one it's the opposite? Just in order to taunt everyone who loved Super Castlevania IV's controls with a "no, we'll never give you a Castlevania game with controls that good again"? That's not nice. And the game's graphics are okay, but they're nothing special, and don't make use of the system's hardware like those other two Castlevania games I mentioned above do on theirs. Rocket Knight Adventures is a much better showcase of the Genesis hardware than Bloodlines. I also absolutely hate Bloodlines' save system -- this is the only game in the entire Castlevania franchise with a continue limit, and not only that, it actually saves in the passwords. This means that you've basically got to beat those too-long levels with an absolute minimum of deaths, because you won't be getting back those lives you lost. It's too cruel. Even the NES games aren't like that! They all have infinite continues, and sometimes saving too.)
 
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I don't like Hyperstone Heist very much. It's probably the worst of the four 34d and 4th gen TMNT beat 'em ups... the story's a rehash of TMNT III and IV, the levels are boring and have no complexity, and their basic concepts all come from the first three games too, they put no thought into the graphical design (seriously, what IS up with those sewer levels with blue ground... it's not water, because you don't splash in it, you just walk over it...), every level is just "walk right until you hit the end", quite unlike the great level designs of TMNT III on the NES, it's got far too few levels... it's pretty disappointing.

yeah Hyperstone Heist had B-Team written all over it. What gets me is that all the core components are there to make a good game. They did a great job porting over the fighting engine to the Genesis, and the music in Hyperstone Heist actually sounds great. really, they did an impressive job porting over the music tracks from the SNES game. I even feel like the controls are more responsive than the SNES game.

But, as you said, lazy level design, recycles art assets from both Turtles in Time and the 1989 arcade game The few new art assets it has look rather lazy, and it feels like a B-effort all the way around.

I kinda wished they just ported over the original 1989 arcade game instead. The Genesis could've done a fantastic version. All in all, Hyperstone is not terrible, just uninspired. The game is very playable, and if you like the Turtles beat em ups, you can do worse.

Huh. That much engine-sharing was rare back then, wasn't it?


Hmm.. it was common internally between studios. But uncommon between different developers in general. But I think tUME was sort of a byproduct of the Amiga scene in the UK. It was developed for the Amiga first and then made the jump to console. Most notably the Genesis, because the Genesis used a 68000 processor like the Amiga did. It was a great set of tools though, a lot of good titles were made on it.
 
Lots of stuff
It was interesting playing Turtles In Time and Hyperstone Heist again. It had been a very long time, and I didn't remember there being such an obvious gap in quality/quantity between the two. I still believe the Genesis game plays better, but it does severely lack variety. I'm also one of those weird people that prefers Bloodlines over CV4 too though. Not really a fan of the multi-directional whipping.

Maybe my Genesis nostalgia is simply too strong. Both consoles were in the house, but the Genesis was mine. I can agree that SNES got the better Konami games at least, but I'm a bit irrational with my love here I guess. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Most importantly though, you've reminded me TMNT3 exists and isn't bad at all. I should play it again. It's looking like game suggestions are going just fine in this thread.
 
It's been a while since I last played Bloodlines, honestly. I just ordered a copy from a Goodwill off of Amazon a few days ago, so I guess I'll be revisiting it, but I really don't recall it being bad - quite good, in fact. Sure, it's not Castelvania 3, but a solid game's still a solid game. Guess I'll see in a couple of weeks or however long it takes to show up just how well I remember it from a brief stint with emulating it a few years back.

Although, encoding the number of continues into the passwords is kind of a dick move, yes.

Can't comment on Hyperstone Heist, only really tried Turtles in Time. Hyperstone Heist kind of struck me as Turtles in Time-but-not, largely redundant if you already have the SNES game, but then I've never taken a close look at it.
 
Its not bad at all. Its a pretty fun and nice sounding entry in the series, but of course it's not going to knock IV or Rondo off their thrones. Of course I also like Castlevania Rebirth and Chronicles (PS1).


I know there are S-Video cables for the Saturn, but are there any S-video cables for the Genesis model 1? Just using the standard composite video cable + headphone jack for the stereo sound.
 
I still feel Genesis is the superior 16 bit console.

I really want to buy a Saturn, the games on it look really awesome.

Also, Please OP play Shadowrun!
 
Its not bad at all. Its a pretty fun and nice sounding entry in the series, but of course it's not going to knock IV or Rondo off their thrones. Of course I also like Castlevania Rebirth and Chronicles (PS1).


I know there are S-Video cables for the Saturn, but are there any S-video cables for the Genesis model 1? Just using the standard composite video cable + headphone jack for the stereo sound.

I thought S-Video was a no go out of the box on all models of Genesis. Does Model 2 do it?

The Model 1, 2 and 3 Genesis/Mega Drives do not support S-video. However, you can track down an XMD-2 or XMD-3 and hook that up to a Model 1 or 2 respectively. It's a device created by the XRGB and FrameMeister company. It converts the RGB out from the systems and outputs an S-Video signal. I currently have an XMD-3 hooked up to my 32X. It also outputs stereo sound if you're lacking that cable.

Fun fact: A Model 2 Sega CD with a Model 2 Genesis/Mega Drive will output the 32X audio through the stereo jacks on the Sega CD unit itself.
 
Alternatively, you can go the modded route. The video encoder on all models of the Genesis supports S-Video natively, but the circuitry of the motherboard doesn't use the relevant pins. Bear in mind that this will reveal some kinda ugly "jailbar" effects - and I'm not talking about how it'll reveal all the vertical line dithering that Genesis developers loved to abuse to coax more shades out of their limited palette, I mean an effect demonstrated by this linked screenshot. It's more prevalent on LCDs than CRTs, of course.

I know I mentioned I was milling over ordering a High-Def Graphics Model 1 Genesis earlier in the topic. Well, I finally went ahead and put my money where my mouth is - because a pre-S-Video-modded one showed up on eBay. Should arrive tomorrow. Eager to try it out - because playing Shining in the Darkness over RF on an LCD HDTV was horrendously ugly. I hope that jailbar effect is easy to ignore; I mean, I use S-Video for my SNES as well, and it kind of has a similar effect (only it's slightly diagonal lines instead of purely vertical ones), but it's muted enough that I just see the correct shade of color instead of the off-color shade.
 
So have you finished RKA yet?

I'm interested to hear your thoughts once you're done with it.

If you're interested in scrolling shooters I'd recommend Biohazard Battle. It has really great music and a very different style to most other shmups. Very playable to this day.
 
So have you finished RKA yet?

I'm interested to hear your thoughts once you're done with it.

If you're interested in scrolling shooters I'd recommend Biohazard Battle. It has really great music and a very different style to most other shmups. Very playable to this day.

Not yet, havent had the chance to really sit down with it.
 
the real question is why did one of the best controllers ever made not available today, i would kill for a saturn pad that i could play SF4:AE on. Damn you sega give me a USB controller!
 
the real question is why did one of the best controllers ever made not available today, i would kill for a saturn pad that i could play SF4:AE on. Damn you sega give me a USB controller!

Um... they did?

Unfortunately most of the ones out there now are knock-offs, but Sega did release them officially.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351264

I've heard there has been some success swapping the rubber pads from an original Saturn controller to a knock-off though.
 
lol so Nights arrived at my house today, 10 minutes later someone posts about an HD port :P
Yeah, but now you can be a hipster like me and say "NiGHTS HD? Pssh, I played that game already. Enjoy being late to the party."

(Well, okay, I wouldn't actually say that, because as pretentious as I can be I'm not that pretentious. Still, I totally could if I wanted to and not be lying...)
 
Well at any rate, there is just something about playing the original game on the original console.

Is the analog controller pretty useful for other saturn games, or just Nights?
 
Well at any rate, there is just something about playing the original game on the original console.

Is the analog controller pretty useful for other saturn games, or just Nights?
Most 3D games make use of it. The latter two Panzer Dragoon games use it (although disable either button X or Z for Zwei, because somehow it gets triggered when you hit the R button and you could pop your Berserk unintentionally). Daytona USA interprets it as a steering wheel, for whatever reason, but I think it enables analog turning (not entirely sure about that). Croc has pseudo-analog control, surprisingly for a tank-controls-based game, if you want to try it. Burning Rangers definitely uses it.

However, most all 2D games don't use it, so you're just as well off using the standard 2D pad for those titles.
 
i expected this in first post.


Die_Hard_Arcade.jpg

You seriously don't get better than this. Also, the Japanese sequel ... Dynamite Cop 2 or whatever it was called. Awesome games.
 
Most 3D games make use of it. The latter two Panzer Dragoon games use it (although disable either button X or Z for Zwei, because somehow it gets triggered when you hit the R button and you could pop your Berserk unintentionally). Daytona USA interprets it as a steering wheel, for whatever reason, but I think it enables analog turning (not entirely sure about that). Croc has pseudo-analog control, surprisingly for a tank-controls-based game, if you want to try it. Burning Rangers definitely uses it.

However, most all 2D games don't use it, so you're just as well off using the standard 2D pad for those titles.

Gotcha. You'd think Die Hard Arcade would make use of it...but it does seem like a pretty good buy.

Since it's my off day and its been raining on and off all day, guess i'll chill out and really get into Rocket Knight (even though I should be finishing up Diablo 3 in co-op and checking in on FFXIV :P ).
 
Most 3D games make use of it. The latter two Panzer Dragoon games use it (although disable either button X or Z for Zwei, because somehow it gets triggered when you hit the R button and you could pop your Berserk unintentionally). Daytona USA interprets it as a steering wheel, for whatever reason, but I think it enables analog turning (not entirely sure about that). Croc has pseudo-analog control, surprisingly for a tank-controls-based game, if you want to try it. Burning Rangers definitely uses it.
Specifically, there are three different analog controllers for the Saturn. Around launch, Sega released two, the Arcade Racer wheel, and the Mission Stick joystick. Later, in fall '96, they released a third, the 3D Controller. This is a little bit like the PS1, with its twin joystick, neGcon, and dualshock, but there's a difference -- the three analog controllers on the PS1 are all incompatible, while the three on the Saturn are all partially inter-compatible.

That is, many games that were designed for the wheel also have analog on the Mission Stick and 3D Controller. Some games designed for the Mission Stick also have analog on the 3D Controller as well. There are some games that require each one of the three for analog -- games designed for the 3D Controller only, released after its release along with NiGHTS, won't work with the other two (apart from racing games, which also work with the wheel because they were designed to support it), first. Second, while most racing games designed just for the wheel work with the other analog controllers (Sega Rally and Daytona USA (first version) both work with all three, for instance, with the latter two imitating a wheel), there are a few, most notably Virtua Racing and Hang-On GP, that require the wheel for analog. These games are a lot more fun with the wheel than with dpads. Some later, post-3D Controller, racing games don't work correctly with the Mission Stick, too, such as Daytona CE. That has native 3D Controller support, though, which is good. And third, while most Mission Stick games also support the 3D Controller (and note, there are a lot more games that support the Mission Stick than you'd realize by just looking at the miniscule number of games with its logo on their box. Most games that were designed for it, such as Panzer Dragoon, PD Zwei, MechWarrior 2, etc., don't have Mission Stick logos and don't mention it in their manuals, in the US/EU versions at least.).

The two (Mission Stick and 3D Controller) are different, though, so this leads to some control differences in games designed for the Mission Stick when you play them on a 3D Controller -- the Mission Stick is much more precise, of course, and has a square gate, while the 3D Controller has a round gate and isn't as precise (being just a gamepad). This matters in the first Panzer Dragoon, because when you play it with a 3D Controller, you can't shoot at the corners of the screen -- the game has you fire at the part of the screen you're pointing at, as if the Mission Stick's range is the screen, so because of the different gates, you can't shoot at the corners with the 3D Controller. Zwei changes its controls, so that issue doesn't happen there, but that game has its own unique feature -- it actually has a twinstick mode, where you aim with one stick and fire with the other. To use it, you need two Mission Sticks. Then, remove the stick portion from the second stick, attach it to the first one (you can attach two sticks to one Mission Stick base), and plug the second one's stick into the "Sub Control" port on the bottom of the base. This is the only game I know of that supports this twinstick Mission Stick mode, oddly enough.

However, most all 2D games don't use it, so you're just as well off using the standard 2D pad for those titles.
No, the 3D Controller has a great dpad. You can use it for everything, it's the only Saturn gamepad I use. Just switch the switch over to digital mode for games that don't support analog.

You seriously don't get better than this. Also, the Japanese sequel ... Dynamite Cop 2 or whatever it was called. Awesome games.

The first game is "Dynamite Deka" in Japan (for Arcade/Saturn), and the second is "Dynamite Deka 2" (for Arcade/Dreamcast). In the US, the the platforms and games are the same, but the names are changed -- the first one is "Die Hard Arcade", and the second is "Dynamite Cop". And yeah, they're fun games for sure. I do think the second one's better, though; the first is completely linear, so it's the same every time, and doesn't support saving either on the Saturn (seriously, forcing you to play that tedious sub arcade game every time in order to get more credits isn't a great design choice). Dynamite Cop has multiple routes, and you make choices along the way, so it's a more varied game. I actually like Sega's next (and last?) beat 'em up, Zombie Revenge for the DC, better than either of them though... but yeah, they are fun.
 
Yeah, but now you can be a hipster like me and say "NiGHTS HD? Pssh, I played that game already. Enjoy being late to the party."

(Well, okay, I wouldn't actually say that, because as pretentious as I can be I'm not that pretentious. Still, I totally could if I wanted to and not be lying...)

Haha, I've played it and the Christmas game so much that I'm not even excited for the HD version.
 
No, the 3D Controller has a great dpad. You can use it for everything, it's the only Saturn gamepad I use. Just switch the switch over to digital mode for games that don't support analog.
Nonono, I said he was just as well off with the 2D pad for 2D games - he wouldn't need to go out of his way for the analog pad for these games because it wouldn't add any particular advantage. Of course you can use the 3D pad's 2D mode, it's more than comfortable enough for this purpose. (Although I prefer the feel of the JPN 2D controller for this purpose, tbqh.)
 
Nonono, I said he was just as well off with the 2D pad for 2D games - he wouldn't need to go out of his way for the analog pad for these games because it wouldn't add any particular advantage. Of course you can use the 3D pad's 2D mode, it's more than comfortable enough for this purpose. (Although I prefer the feel of the JPN 2D controller for this purpose, tbqh.)
But justifying why a 3d controller is absolutely worth it is part of why I wrote that first part, so I didn't think that was necessary in that part too... yes, of course the 3D Controller is a must-have for Saturn fans. Thanks to 3D Controller/Mission Stick/Arcade Racer inter-compatibility, a lot more games support it than you'd think.
 
Rocket Knight, made it all the way to the second half of stage 5...then bam, got smashed. Really have to say that no one can do incredibly polluted cities like old school Konami.
 
I actually like Sega's next (and last?) beat 'em up, Zombie Revenge for the DC, better than either of them though... but yeah, they are fun.

There's a third Dynamite Deka, made for the Naomi in 2007. I'm hoping it sees a port due to Sega's digital focus.
 
And Lightening Force completes the first 4. Now to focus on playing these to completion.

On the Saturn side of things, so far i've got Nights, Legend of Oasis, Astal, Panzer Dragoon II, and Deep Fear. I'll probably wait to play Legend after I play Beyond (Genesis collection), Nights feels a little funny with the standard controller (maybe its just been awhile?) so i'll probably need to grab a 3D controller as suggested. Astal has an amazing soundtrack, some nice enemy design, and while it starts off really easy, gets somewhat challenging around the ice crystal area.

I think i'm close to finishing up Panzer Dragoon II (reached a white wasteland looking area, with what I guess is snow falling from the sky) and while I do have a strange appreciation for early PS1/Saturn era 3D graphics, alot of the time I cant tell what i'm shooting at :P


EDIT: Good lord...Lightening Force is amazing! How did I miss out on this?
 
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