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RTTP: The Pokemon. All 721 of them, and counting.
- Thread starter Watch Da Birdie
- Start date
Don't worry, every generation of Pokemon games gets hate.
I still enjoy Red even with tons of people saying it's outdated glitchy garbage.
You best not be talking shit about the weather trio.
Gen 4 is when the robodinos started.
Robo? Check.
Dino? Check.
How do you folks use Kadabara? I found him to be a glass cannon. He has super speed and special attack but constantly faints. I wasted so many revives on that clown. He has defense of a paper bag.Oh Golduck <3
Mine helped me lots and lots in the hardest Nuzlocke I've ever completed.
I eventually gave up and switched to someone who could live for more than one round.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
056 - Mankey
Fighting
Mankey is the first Fighting-type Pokemon I've covered so far, and I think I mentioned this before, but the Fighting-type is probably my favorite Type overall. In Red and Blue, Fighting-type Pokemon didn't really appear till after the first quarter of the game, and by then the Normal-type and Rock-type Pokemon they were effective against had become less of an issue for the player. The only other Type they were effective against, Ice-type Pokemon, also didn't really appear till the Elite Four, so for much of the game Fighting-type Pokemon really didn't specialize in any specific role except for providing all-around bulk. It also didn't help that Poison and Psychic Type Pokemon, who resist Fighting-type attacks, were so common. That being said, sometimes just going with a strong attacker is a good strategy, and thus I feel Fighting-type Pokemon carved out a niche for themselves where they're easily splashable into any in-game team and never really lose their luster like some of the other Types as the game progresses.
Mankey began the Pokemon series as a Red-version Exclusive opposite Meowth, but in Pokemon Yellow was given a much more vital role. In the original Red, Mankey didn't appear till after Cerulean City (and thus he doesn't really provide much support till Lorelai), and couldn't naturally learn any Fighting-type attacks until Seismic Toss, which didn't even factor Type Advantage. This was back when Karate Chop was oddly enough a Normal-type move, by the way. In Yellow, however, Mankey now appeared right around Pewter City, and could pick up Low Kick at Level 9. The reason for this is probably to balance out Brock, who was quite tough for those who went with Charmander in Pokemon Red and Blue due to the lack of Grass/Water/Fighting-type Pokemon, and would be equally hard for every Yellow player since they got Pikachu.
Many Fighting-type Pokemon are "humanshape", as you'd expect them to be, but Mankey is one of the more basic animal designs among the Type. I'm not sure if Mankey is based on any particular monkey---the closest match I can find is the Hamadryas baboon, which has the same fur color, a similar nose, and are known for their rather aggressive personalities. Mankey is known as the "Pig Monkey Pokemon", which always confused me---is he meant to be part pig? I thought this might be a mistranslation, but nope, that's pretty much what he's known as in Japan as well. It seems to simply refer to his pig-like nose, but I've never seen any monkeys referred to having pig-like noses, nor did it seem that was a common term in Japanese either from what I can tell, so I don't know what Game Freak was smoking. By the way, in 2008, there was a pig in China born with a strange, monkey-like face---so close!
There's an idea that Fighting-type Pokemon are "noble" individuals, thus setting them up as the foil against Dark-type Pokemon, but Mankey goes against this idea---it's a creature motivated by anger, and doesn't seem to specialize in any actual style, rather it could be classified as a berserker without any true skill or technique. Mankey's anger issues are no doubt a reference to how violent and vicious monkeys can be, as quite a few unfortunate pet owners can attest to. A common way monkeys show aggressiveness is by baring their teeth which Mankey lacks---but I assume this is a stylistic choice, and it does have a mouth, the art just exaggerates how hairy its fur is. Like how Zubat's ears might trick your mind into seeing them as eyes, or not really noticing the missing eyes until you think about it, Mankey's nose stands in for its mouth and can trick your mind into forgetting the strangeness of a mouthless monkey.
Mankey's most notable appearance in the show is of course in Primeape Goes Bananas, where it first steals a rice ball from Ash and his friends before going after Ash's trusty hat. I believe this episode perhaps might be a reference to the classic Japanese fable, "The Monkey-Crab Battle", in which a mean-spirited monkey tries to trick a crab into giving up her rice-ball. Now, there's no crab in this episode, however I don't think I'm looking too far into this, as one of the anime's promotional art images for Krabby also shows it holding a rice-ball as a probable reference to this story. Of course, to us uncultured English folks, rather than rice balls we got...JELLY DONUTS!
057 - Primeape
Fighting
Primeape is the evolved form of Mankey. There's nothing particular remarkable about Primeape in the overall Pokemon canon, except that according to one of the novelizations of the show written by Takeshi Shudo, chief writer of the original anime series, Primeape was involved in the creation of PokeBalls, presumably due to people needing a way to hold such a violent creature. Shudo's "views" of the series shouldn't be taken as canon to the games, but nonetheless are quite interesting---in fact in Meowth's entry, I made note of how weird it was that Meowth can understand other Pokemon who presumably have their own language, and in fact in Shudo's book it references this oddity as saying Meowth also had to train to be able to do that. Shudo's original ideas for the series were also somewhat dark, implying that being a Gym Leader was a horrible job, and that ten-year olds are considered adults and can be charged as such as well as marry at that age. O-okay?
Anyway, let's talk about Primeape now! In common knowledge, monkeys have tails (although not all actually do), while apes do not, and therefore this line represents that change from monkey -> ape, and then, perhaps at one point in the past, into humans? A common joke, even referenced in one of the PokePark games, is that Primeape can still learn Iron Tail despite lacking a tail. Of course, this is simply for gameplay purposes as Pokemon keep their TM compatibility upon evolving. Hey, sometimes you gotta put the game over realism. Another change in Primeape is that its fur sheds a bit, revealing its bare arms and legs, while simultaneously becoming spikier around the center.
As a Fighting-type Pokemon, Primeape is a bit more humanoid than Mankey, wearing metallic braces around its wrists and ankles. Nothing in the PokeDex mentions what the purpose of these are, or where they came from, but perhaps they're supposed to represent chains you might see a gorilla trapped in (think King Kong) that Primeape managed to escape from. They also may be weights meant for training purposes, such as how Goku would use weighted clothing in Dragon Ball while training. Speaking of which, I wonder if the idea of a powerful, mindlessly angry ape was perhaps inspired by the Great Ape from Dragon Ball? It wouldn't surprise me if that was the idea Game Freak had when creating the line, honestly, since Sugimori's earlier art was very similar to Toriyama's.
Like Mankey, Primeape has anger issues, specifically when you make eye-contact with it which is trait shared by real-life baboons, and many other animals. If you're a socially awkward nerd such as myself, sometimes being too timid to make eye-contact can be a positive thing! Once Primeape notices you making eye contact with it, it's said it'll chase you down---even defeating it won't calm its anger. As its gets angrier, its blood flows faster and faster, increasing its muscle strength, and it can actually get so mad in later games that its anger turns into "burning anger", as it's capable of learning Overheat.
Anyway, the Mankey that stole Ash's hat? You probably know the rest, Team Rocket makes it even angrier, it evolves into Primeape, Ash catches it, uses it for one episode to win a Fighting-type tournament, and then it's taken away from him to become a "P-1 Grand Prix Champion" and never appears again. However, Primeape has made some cameos since then in two of the Japanese openings for the Battle Frontier and Best Wishes seasons alongside Ash's other Pokemon, and in the Best Wishes opening, actually appears alongside the other Pokemon at Professor Oak's laboratory. Some people thought this meant we'd finally, finally see his grand return, but alas, the only appearance Primeape made was popping up in a flashback showing his fight against Ash's Charmander in an episode focused on Ash's Charizard. By the way, there was an episode in Johto featuring a Primeape, and even directly referenced the P-1 Grand Prix, but no mention of Ash's Primeape was made. In fact, no one brought up the fact that Ash had actually won the P-1 Grand Prix either! I mean, clearly the writers remember the P-1 Grand Prix exists (an anime-only invention), so why can't they remember that they had Ash win it?!
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Never got why Psyduck line wasn't part Psychic.
What the fuck is robodinos? Is this a subtle "Digimon" ribbing? Come on, this thread has been clean and you have to bring genwar shit here.
you shitting on Zygarde I see? Don't make me sick Zydog on you!
What the fuck is robodinos? Is this a subtle "Digimon" ribbing? Come on, this thread has been clean and you have to bring genwar shit here.
you shitting on Zygarde I see? Don't make me sick Zydog on you!
tirkaroKujo
Member
I actually read up (okay, just listened to in a random video) on Takeshi Shudo recently, and it was pretty fascinating. His take on the Pokemon world is surprisingly deep and well thought out, and I wish the more mainline pokemon canons had implemented some of his more wild ideas. I'm a little shocked at just how little attention his novels seem to get considering how much people on the internet love to chew on misc gen 1 lore whenever they get the chance. I'm not sure if any of them are even fully translated yet!
I'd advise anyone interested in this way-too-overlooked footnote in Pokemon's production history to check out this video.
It's interesting, but for some reason in later generations Alakazam seems super weak, always dies very fast. I'm replaying Leaf Green right now and Kadabra is just wrecking through everything with psybeam, hilariously op in that game.
Great thread btw
unknownstranger
Member
Gen 4 splitting up attack types hurt him a lot. Almost anything with bite or crunch (which used to be special attacks) will 1 shot him.
As you said, the line is a glass cannon. Use the speed and the special attack to one-shot stuff. Never let something hit them. I used primarily Psychic and Shock Wave with mine, and he was great at oneshotting stuff even without being super effective (since my rules banned the use of SE moves)
He was aaaalmost lost as a Kadabra due to my stupidity. Met a trainer with Umbreon when Kadabra was my lead mon. Switched out and Umbreon used Pursuit. Noooo! STAB on switch against a psychic type... And Kadabra lived with 2HP. I knew he would make it all the way after that
GuitarGuruu
Member
I seriously to this day still sometimes make the mistake of thinking Psyduck or Golduck have psychic as a secondary type.
If you have someone to trade with, trade Kadabra and trade it back to get Alakazam. If you're stuck with an unevolved Kadabra, it's still effective, but I would heavily recommend equipping an Eviolite item to bolster its defenses a bit.
Alakazam and Kadabra are glass cannons to the core, so you should be ideally KOing foes in one or two hits. My ideal loadout would have these three attacks, which allows you to hit most things for neutral or supereffective damage hard.
- Psychic (Most powerful attack)
- Focus Blast (Hits Dark types and Steel types that resist Psychic for supereffective damage)
- Shadow Ball (Hits Psychic types that resist Psychic for supereffective damage)
Not a fan of those at all. They're a bit better though, true.
Benzychenz
Member
People are allowed to dislike designs.
I definitely agree that the gen 3-5 cover legends are pretty shitty designs, and too 'robo-dino'.
Thankfully Yveltal and Xerneas somewhat returned to the greatness that Lugia and Ho-Oh were.
Uhhh no, not Digimon at all. I can forgive maaaaybe Kyogre and Rayquaza, but Palkia, Dialga, Reshiram and Zekrom fit the robodino description alright, I'm just glad that Xerneas and Yveltal came back to a more Lugia/Ho-oh line of design.
edit: dammit Benzychenz, didn't see that!
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Primeape was kinda crappy, then again once you got Machamp back then there was no point using other fighters.
Yeah but so far it's a neutral thread. And robodino is a stupid term that makes dinobeast sound good.
Yeah but so far it's a neutral thread. And robodino is a stupid term that makes dinobeast sound good.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
I'll just drop in some love for Noivern.
You have to love him! Giant ears, cute and cool design, and kind of wyvern-y...
You have to love him! Giant ears, cute and cool design, and kind of wyvern-y...
Benzychenz
Member
What does 'neutral thread' even mean? People aren't allowed to dislike designs you like? You just called Primeape crappy lol.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Also apparently Primeape got stat boosts?
No genwar crap. Just mon discussion. None of that all encompassing design shit. No passive "this is digimon" crap. And yes people are allowed to like and dislike something. And I was talking about gameplay, not saying I hate primeape or anything, so maybe get those checked. Seriously, it was fine until that dinorobo comment complete with mentioning the gens.
But I feel like being baited and that continuing this only ruins the thread, and with respect to OP, I will simply let go of this crap.
No genwar crap. Just mon discussion. None of that all encompassing design shit. No passive "this is digimon" crap. And yes people are allowed to like and dislike something. And I was talking about gameplay, not saying I hate primeape or anything, so maybe get those checked. Seriously, it was fine until that dinorobo comment complete with mentioning the gens.
But I feel like being baited and that continuing this only ruins the thread, and with respect to OP, I will simply let go of this crap.
Jesus Christ. There's a very obvious change in tone from gen 2 to gen 6 in legendary design. If robodino sounds too offensive to you perhaps "less organic" will make you happier, even though Palkia looks like a freaking robot dinosaur (with a dick for a face).
btw, I haven't watched a single chapter of Digimon in my life
Speaking of Primeape, I completely roflstomp triples with a combo of Anger Point + any other Pokémon that learns Frost Breath (always lands a crit). Since Primeape resists ice, it can take well the hit and then gain a +6 in attack, it's basically a free belly drum.
To be fair, i get their point.
Gen 3 wasn't affected that much, but in my opinion, gen 4 and gen 5 main legendairies really had this "futuristic monster" design. And i'm saying this as someone who loves gen 5 the most (i think you are aware of that lol).
it's nothing about genwar, it was about 6 (or 9, depending if you are including gen 3 or not) pokémon.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
The change in tone is merely allowing the use of new technology to benefit the design.
Eh I dunno, large monsters with odd linings is something not uncommon, and while I do agree gen 4 cover legendary mons are a bit "imposing", I thought gen 5 cover legendary mons took a step back from it (barring Kyurem of course). They're cleaner to look at for instance. And even gen 3 cover legendaries are quite straight forward as it gets. At least Zygarde's design makes sense.
Eh I dunno, large monsters with odd linings is something not uncommon, and while I do agree gen 4 cover legendary mons are a bit "imposing", I thought gen 5 cover legendary mons took a step back from it (barring Kyurem of course). They're cleaner to look at for instance. And even gen 3 cover legendaries are quite straight forward as it gets. At least Zygarde's design makes sense.
The Shadow Knight
Member
Hmm, Primeape doesn't resist Ice though.
Fun trivia: Belly Drum will boost the attack of a Pokemon to +6 even if they previously had their attack stat dropped.
EDIT:
Now this I didn't know yet.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Even Anger Point does that. I think it's more apt to see them as gaining a maximized attack bonus than simply giving +6 Attack buff.
Banjotanooki
Member
Dafuck? I had no idea psyduck or goldduck weren't part psychic....guess him always using confusion in the anime made me think he was.
Don't Gen 5 legendaries have like, literally, engines integrated into their bodies?
Benzychenz
Member
Dude I think you need to take a step back.
People just said they don't like some designs, it's not some personal vendetta against you.
Relax.
My life is a lie, to this day I thought that Fighting resisted Ice -_-
Trio breakdown:
Gen 1: Godlike
Gen 2: Also godlike HOW DO THEY DO IT
Gen 3: Not amazing, but still interesting with a good quest line.
Gen 4: Unoriginal Mew wannabes. If you can tell me which is which without looking it up... I pity that you even bothered with these lame Pokemon.
Gen 5: Somehow even worse. Let's throw some Japanese gods in our faux American setting. These dudes look straight out of a SMT game or even Yokai Watch.
Gen 6: lol
Gen 1: Godlike
Gen 2: Also godlike HOW DO THEY DO IT
Gen 3: Not amazing, but still interesting with a good quest line.
Gen 4: Unoriginal Mew wannabes. If you can tell me which is which without looking it up... I pity that you even bothered with these lame Pokemon.
Gen 5: Somehow even worse. Let's throw some Japanese gods in our faux American setting. These dudes look straight out of a SMT game or even Yokai Watch.
Gen 6: lol
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Gen VI could have used the canine trio due to norse myth, yadayada. You got the sun wolf, moon wolf, and fenrir.
only their tail is, otherwise they're just generic upright dragons
now what you're thinking is fusion kyurem which has shit like tubes on its body
I did, no need to further.
only their tail is, otherwise they're just generic upright dragons
now what you're thinking is fusion kyurem which has shit like tubes on its body
I did, no need to further.
Thanks for the tips. I initially tried playing him for defensively, with Attract and Reflect. I was using Dazzling Gleam and Psychic for damage. I do have the TMs for Focus Blast and Shadow Ball. I can trade with my daughter to evolve, but I seem to prefer a team that can last a few rounds and do some tricks rather than just one-shotting everything. Maybe I'll give him a try again after I finish the game.
He seems to want to be in the main battle slot, which is tough when I want to level up others in the party. I do a lot of switching and she often can't survive long enough to even use an attack. I just realized that she is perfect to switch in after someone faints, though.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Robo? Check.
Dino? Check.
Groudon is the Behemoth in Pokemon's world. Actually, nearly all the legends in Gen 3 are based on Hebrew myths (Behemoth, Leviathan, Ziz and the Golems). He also seems to have some lizard in him, other than standing upright like a dinosaur (and having a shovel thing as a tail)
I don't know if this is the right thread to start this discussion in, but which Pokemon do we think need regular evolutions rather than Mega Evolutions?
Personally, I think that permanent evolutions are only necessary for Pokemon that are hard to use in a playthrough because of their low or poorly spread stats. Mega Sableye and Mawile were two that I felt should have been regular evolutions for this reason. Although there are some Pokemon (like Farfetch'd, Stunfisk and Luvdisc) that I wouldn't like to see receive an evolution of any kind despite their low stats, because it would totally kill their gimmick or 'joke'.
Top picks for me are Sandslash, Dunsparce, Ledian, Quilfish, Carnivine, Basculin, Torkoal, Cacturne, Durant, Heatmor, Golduck, Huntail and Gorebyss. Who am I missing?
From a purely design POV - a quadruped evolution of Beartic would be great! I was always looking forward to a polar bear Pokemon, but I can't say I'm a fan of what we ended up with. I guess this could be a Mega Evo too, but...in this case I want it to be permanent.
Personally, I think that permanent evolutions are only necessary for Pokemon that are hard to use in a playthrough because of their low or poorly spread stats. Mega Sableye and Mawile were two that I felt should have been regular evolutions for this reason. Although there are some Pokemon (like Farfetch'd, Stunfisk and Luvdisc) that I wouldn't like to see receive an evolution of any kind despite their low stats, because it would totally kill their gimmick or 'joke'.
Top picks for me are Sandslash, Dunsparce, Ledian, Quilfish, Carnivine, Basculin, Torkoal, Cacturne, Durant, Heatmor, Golduck, Huntail and Gorebyss. Who am I missing?
From a purely design POV - a quadruped evolution of Beartic would be great! I was always looking forward to a polar bear Pokemon, but I can't say I'm a fan of what we ended up with. I guess this could be a Mega Evo too, but...in this case I want it to be permanent.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Magcargo evolving into a giant lava monster nautilus.
Mr Mime into Dr Mime, basically more of a defensive healer type Pokemon like Blissey
Luvdisc into Alomomola because what the hell happened there
Mr Mime into Dr Mime, basically more of a defensive healer type Pokemon like Blissey
Luvdisc into Alomomola because what the hell happened there
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
I always felt like Dodrio was a middle evolution and that Mr. Mime needed an evolution badly.
Phoenix944
Member
Good god... There are 721 pokemon ? Looks like I was asleep for quite some time now
Heliolisk. It's design straight up screams "middle evolution"
My picks would probably be
Fearow
Rapidash (give it wings and make it part Flying
)Jynx (just to make it even with Magmar and Electabuzz)
Ariados
Xatu
Forretress
Swellow
from the top of my head.
fredrancour
Member
The only rumors that were always impossible to believe for me were any of the variety of "beat the elite four fifty times and x happens" or similarly repetitive ones. It was always evident to me somebody was trolling, even if the other kid was merely forwarding someone else's rumor.
For normal evolutions I'd go with: Eevee P), Jynx, Ariados, Magcargo, Torkoal, Carnivine, Liepard, Basculin, Heatmor, Durant (though Durant's pretty freaking powerful on its own) Heliolisk
For pre-evolutions I'd go with: Kangaskhan, Lapras, Druddigon, Klefki
For mega evolutions I'd go with: Machamp, Golem, the rest of the starters, Flygon, Haxorus, Bisharp, Aromatisse, Slurpuff, Dragalge, Clawitzer, Tyrantrum, Aurorus, Noivern
P), Jynx, Ariados, Magcargo, Torkoal, Carnivine, Liepard, Basculin, Heatmor, Durant (though Durant's pretty freaking powerful on its own) HelioliskFor pre-evolutions I'd go with: Kangaskhan, Lapras, Druddigon, Klefki
For mega evolutions I'd go with: Machamp, Golem, the rest of the starters, Flygon, Haxorus, Bisharp, Aromatisse, Slurpuff, Dragalge, Clawitzer, Tyrantrum, Aurorus, Noivern
Nocturnowl
Member
Birdie delivering the Makey/Primeape goods, great stuff.
For whatever reason they instead often tend to be one of the first to turn up the moment you hit the national dex post game, they really need a return to regional.
For whatever reason they instead often tend to be one of the first to turn up the moment you hit the national dex post game, they really need a return to regional.
Roufianos
Member
Ahem
Sure, those are alternate Forms, but don't just ignore them. They are amazing.
Those 3 are some of the worst Pokemon ever in my opinion.
Nocturnowl
Member
I think I'd probably quite like the design of the trios default appearance if it was just one pokemon instead of three similar looking chaps that attempted to diversify through some plain odd looking therian formes.
As it stands having all three look so similar by default brings down the trio for me.
I suppose Landorus' therian forme is fine by me, the other two are a bit shaky.
Well, Zoroark failed spectacularly at being the poster boy of gen V. Outside of that, Haxorus, Krookodile, Scrafty, Hydreigon and Reuniclus feel popular to me. Gen V biggest accomplishment was giving a roster of bug types that did not suck.