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[Pallas]

Probably shouldn't make statements like that even if they are true because people got banned when they couldn't prove their sources.

I always thought og PS4 performance advantage over og Xbone to be negligible. I think XboneX has a bigger graphical performance than PS4 Pro compared to the former comparison.

Regardless, the PS4 sold way better at launch not because of graphical performances. It sold because it was $100 cheaper and had a lot more games going on for it because indies filled the void.

That’s actually pretty funny coming from you considering what you were saying in the PlayStation fan worries thread.
————
Back on topic though, if this ends up being real and it actually happens, how will they announce it? It seems like all of their studio acquisitions have been announced at shows/events.

 

[Stuart360]

I swear if Microsoft came out and said they were giving 50 billion to charity, some people on this forum would try to turn it into a negative. It really is getting tiresome.

 

[Gavon West]

I swear if Microsoft came out and said they were giving 50 billion to charity, some people on this forum would try to turn it into a negative. It really is getting tiresome.

This

 

[Humdinger]

Problem for me is that so many Sony fans are not recognizing that the leadership and direction of MS and Xbox has drastically changed.

Almost no one involved in the original launch of Xbox One is still in leadership currently. It’s fine to say that studios should have been purchased earlier but disingenuous to disregard the fact that the starting line up has changed and that the sheer scope in investment has diametrically changed alongside them.

This type of investment would’ve never happened under Myerson and Mattrick. It’s a new day and Sony would be very foolish to underestimate these guys.

Right. That's what has re-booted my hope for Xbox. The leadership structure has shifted dramatically. Rather than just make promises (which is all they were doing for years), they are "putting their money where their mouth is." In just a few months, they've doubled the number of game development studios they own. That is not just talk. That is serious and expensive action.

And then also consider the positive moves they've made in the past few years -- the Backwards Compatibility program, Game Pass, and the impressive Xbox One X.

I was a Sony fan for most of this generation, starting with MS's massive fumble in 2013, but I was an Xbox guy for the previous two generations. To me, this is the right time to get back on board the Xbox train. I can understand if some people want to wait for next gen, but enough has changed at MS to restore my trust.

 

[Kerotan]

You mean the same way Japanese developers ride Sony and wish for the westerns demise?

Slightly different scenario. In Japan ps4 has slaughtered the xbox by a ratio around 80:1. Why would Japanese devs want to support that disaster?

In the west xbox is getting hammered too but at the start of the gen EA were heavily backing MS. I'd say they bet MS we're going to win. That always online anti used game policy was right up there ally. I'd say they're sick Sony popped that party.

 

[Clear]

The concept may have been around for years but not MS’s particular implementation. And if that were truly the case that would only make Pro’s poor cooling design even more inexcusable.

Not really, Pro was clearly put together with the aim of a $399 rrp, 20% less than One X which is a very substantial difference. Its also worth pointing out that the Pro's cooling is actually very effective, heat dissipation being the primary goal not silent operation.

 

[Fart Knight]

Slightly different scenario. In Japan ps4 has slaughtered the xbox by a ratio around 80:1. Why would Japanese devs want to support that disaster?

In the west xbox is getting hammered too but at the start of the gen EA were heavily backing MS. I'd say they bet MS we're going to win. That always online anti used game policy was right up there ally. I'd say they're sick Sony popped that party.

Consoles are dead in Japan.

 

[CeeJay]

Not really, Pro was clearly put together with the aim of a $399 rrp, 20% less than One X which is a very substantial difference. Its also worth pointing out that the Pro's cooling is actually very effective, heat dissipation being the primary goal not silent operation.

Haha, the fans inside the PS4 are only beaten on noise by the PS4 fans outside the console.

 

[HeresJohnny]

I have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s almost as if you just started following tech and have no clue how consumers generally make these purchasing decisions.

The hardcore enthusiasts reach a general consensus about the quality of a piece of tech and that spec focused analysis filters down to the casual consumers as a simple judgment of “good” or “bad”; “weak” or “powerful”; etc etc.

At the start of this generation, consumers were absolutely cognizant of PS4’s power advantage. They were not aware of how small it was in reality but that only further worked to Sony’s benefit.

Had MS not seized the power advantage, the doubts of the hardcore that “MS is a software company and can’t compete with a hardware company like Sony” would have placed a cloud over the launch of Scarlett.

We would’ve been hearing warnings that you can’t buy Xbox hardware at launch because it might suffer another red ring of death. We would’ve heard more about how MS’s engineers are too inept to make a small sleek design with an internal power brick. More “we should expect another VCR” jokes.

All of that would’ve have filtered through tech media to sites like Cnet where so many go for tech buying advice. The 1X stands as a physical rebuttal to all those arguments. MS’s critics have not moved onto games because they chose to do do; they moved on because they were forced to do so.

The 1X seized control of the narrative on hardware. These studio purchases will address the software. These are all long term investments in the industry and gamers are right to be excited about them.

If we are going to label each other as inexperienced, let me return the favor. In what world do you live in that power has ever dictated console dominance? In fact, better than anyone, it should be the Xbox fan that knows this better than anyone seeing as they've always had a power advantage yet have failed to ever garner a crown. If you want reasons people might not buy Xbox hardware at launch, it might be because they're fearful they will release another console shortly after, and that is now a valid concern. Case in point? I won't be buying another Xbox at launch, why would I? You get a better product by waiting, that's what they've shown me. Surely I'm not alone. And that goes for Sony too. These companies seem hellbent on getting people to NOT buy their products by making half-assed decisions that don't benefit them in the long or short term.

Further, no one was cognizant of the PS4's power advantage because it hadn't even come out when the Xbox One launched. Your arguments are all invalid excuses for Microsoft releasing a console that appeals to no one outside of those already devoted to the brand. You're making up excuses and beating up straw men to avoid this particular piece of truth, and it is truth.

 

[HeresJohnny]

So just create a studio from thin air and fill it full of interns and graduates? Is that your suggestion?

How are studios that don't exist ever created to begin with? You think they are pooped out of the sky by the gaming gods?

 

[HeresJohnny]

Really now. They're trying to fix everything that people have been complaining about for the past 5 years and your response is "it's formulaic"?

You just can't win. Had they not actively tried to fix what was wrong with their platform, you'd probably be giving them flak for that too.

I don't recall ever giving them shit about acquiring Rareware or Bungie. Again, IO is not an acquisition that is going to glean many IPs of value and I question whether the talent has already been fleeing. Just because one doesn't think IO is a good purchase, doesn't mean I'm against Microsoft trying to flesh out its development output.

 

[The Alien]

The best, most 'realistic' studio MS could buy would be Insomniac. I know it ain't happening as they like their independence.

High quality studio, Sunset OD2 would happen, and it would impact their competition.

 

[Clear]

Haha, the fans inside the PS4 are only beaten on noise by the PS4 fans outside the console.

I've read more reports about One X's shutting down due to thermal protection tripping than similar issue with Pro's, despite being on the market for half the time, That's a lot bigger deal to me than anything to do with noise!

 

[Elenchus]

If we are going to label each other as inexperienced, let me return the favor. In what world do you live in that power has ever dictated console dominance? In fact, better than anyone, it should be the Xbox fan that knows this better than anyone seeing as they've always had a power advantage yet have failed to ever garner a crown. If you want reasons people might not buy Xbox hardware at launch, it might be because they're fearful they will release another console shortly after, and that is now a valid concern. Case in point? I won't be buying another Xbox at launch, why would I? You get a better product by waiting, that's what they've shown me. Surely I'm not alone. And that goes for Sony too. These companies seem hellbent on getting people to NOT buy their products by making half-assed decisions that don't benefit them in the long or short term.

Further, no one was cognizant of the PS4's power advantage because it hadn't even come out when the Xbox One launched. Your arguments are all invalid excuses for Microsoft releasing a console that appeals to no one outside of those already devoted to the brand. You're making up excuses and beating up straw men to avoid this particular piece of truth, and it is truth.

Sure. Sure. Keep re-writing history. You can even borrow my pen friend. Smh.

Resolution was a key factor this generation. It’s influence on adoption is fact and Sony began scrambling as soon they thought they were losing that bullet.

The 1X was absolutely necessary. Thankfully MS realizes this and will not surrender the power advantage next gen so easily.


https://www.videogamer.com/news/bet...son-why-people-are-choosing-ps4-over-xbox-one

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ib...gate-720p-controversy-there-alternative?amp=1

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mspowe...box-one-x-versions-due-playstation-4-pro/amp/

 

[Calibos]

If anyone here has played the new Hitman games, they should know that this studio is mega talented...this would be an excellent acquisition by MS. Nothing more today...

 

[HeresJohnny]

Sure. Sure. Keep re-writing history. You can even borrow my pen friend. Smh.

Resolution was a key factor this generation. It’s influence on adoption is fact and Sony began scrambling as soon they thought they were losing that bullet.

The 1X was absolutely necessary. Thankfully MS realizes this and will not surrender the power advantage next gen so easily.


https://www.videogamer.com/news/bet...son-why-people-are-choosing-ps4-over-xbox-one

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ibtimes.com/microsoft-xbox-one-vs-sony-playstation-4-vs-pc-resolutiongate-720p-controversy-there-alternative?amp=1

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mspowe...box-one-x-versions-due-playstation-4-pro/amp/

The PS4 launched after the Xbox One. There were no discussions amongst people about power because there were no comparisons being made at that point outside of enthusiasts in the press, which the general public doesn't even see Power hasn't been an issue for decades, and it still isn't an issue; if it were you'd be seeing the base model PS4 and the S dying on the vine while the Pro and X took over the market, but they're not. The only one attempting to rewrite history is you by trying to force your imaginary world off as fact where the more powerful console somehow wins over all the uninformed masses from some kind of osmosis passed down from the hardcore. That's all bullshit, and that's not me saying it's bullshit, but history itself. You've been living in the GAF bubble too long to realize that the lens by which we see the world and the market is vastly different than that of the average consumer who buys a game console. It happened when the Xbox (and Gamecube) both went up against the PS2. It happened when the N64 went up against the Playstation, and it happened when the 360 went up against a Sony platform that was seemingly designed to fail.

EDIT: The reason that the Xbox One lost to the PS4 wasn't because of a disparity of power, but a lack of common sense. It cost $500 and it came with a peripheral no one wanted any more (which Microsoft doubled down on and said if you didn't want Kinect then you don't want an Xbone). That's cancer right there. You choose to ignore all that shit and instead say it was because gamers were told some games ran at 900p instead of 1080p... yeah right. The Xbone would have stood a fighting chance, but between price and the no-worky butthole Kinect controller, power was the least of its worries.

Again, if the goal was to sell the already devoted on a more powerful machine, then the X was absolutely necessary. The general public isn't going to give a shit. To them, the Xbox is the Xbox S.

 

[Xenon]

Not feeling this one. The Hitman series needs a wide base since it's a borderline niche game. MS would be spending a lot of money for a Dev/IP that has very little chance of recouping it.

 

[EDMIX]

I don’t think we agree on much but this is a fair critique. Problem for me is that so many Sony fans are not recognizing that the leadership and direction of MS and Xbox has drastically changed.

Almost no one involved in the original launch of Xbox One is still in leadership currently. It’s fine to say that studios should have been purchased earlier but disingenuous to disregard the fact that the starting line up has changed and that the sheer scope in investment has diametrically changed alongside them.

This type of investment would’ve never happened under Myerson and Mattrick. It’s a new day and Sony would be very foolish to underestimate these guys.

"so many Sony fans are not recognizing that the leadership and direction of MS and Xbox has drastically changed." ?

Can we seriously stop with this whole "Sony fans" as MS messed over their fans by doing what they did with XONE. The low sales are not from "Sony fans", its from MS own fans not buying the system. The biggest issue regarding this is that they spent a whole generation not doing right by their fanbase, so Sony fan, MS fan, any gamer regardless is going to be questionable if MS is really going to commit to change.

We can claim in 2013 MS spending for that gen that MS "has drastically changed" Remember this?

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...as-USD1-billion-for-exclusive-xbox-one-titles

So.....we need to wait and see. MS fans themselves know this isn't the first time the company has made bold claims only to be left waiting a whole gen for anything other then Halo, Gears, Forza combo.

I don't think Sony is underestimating MS either, they likely have their own plans for investing in teams and they also know they are likely always going to sell more units with MS now making games for PC, ie no longer making XB exclusives.

 

[HeresJohnny]

"so many Sony fans are not recognizing that the leadership and direction of MS and Xbox has drastically changed." ?

Can we seriously stop with this whole "Sony fans" as MS messed over their fans by doing what they did with XONE. The low sales are not from "Sony fans", its from MS own fans not buying the system. The biggest issue regarding this is that they spent a whole generation not doing right by their fanbase, so Sony fan, MS fan, any gamer regardless is going to be questionable if MS is really going to commit to change.

We can claim in 2013 MS spending for that gen that MS "has drastically changed" Remember this?

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...as-USD1-billion-for-exclusive-xbox-one-titles

So.....we need to wait and see. MS fans themselves know this isn't the first time the company has made bold claims only to be left waiting a whole gen for anything other then Halo, Gears, Forza combo.

I don't think Sony is underestimating MS either, they likely have their own plans for investing in teams and they also know they are likely always going to sell more units with MS now making games for PC, ie no longer making XB exclusives.

Anyone who critiques Microsoft is a Sony fan, apparently. And a few years ago, it was the Sony fans calling me a Microsoft fan. It's funny how people project their own stereotypes onto you when you disagree with their narrative. It only serves to weaken their argument, though.

And you make an excellent point (and this is not the first time) about Microsoft talking big and not delivering. I would like to hear what some of those in here have to say in response to that, because it seems to be legitimate to be doubtful of Microsoft's commitment to making these things happen when they've been saying the same thing for several years and it's yet to happen. I'm sure instead we'll just get a bunch of "Sony fans R UNFAIR REEEEEEEEE" but it's worth a shot.

 

[CeeJay]

Anyone who critiques Microsoft is a Sony fan, apparently. And a few years ago, it was the Sony fans calling me a Microsoft fan. It's funny how people project their own stereotypes onto you when you disagree with their narrative. It only serves to weaken their argument, though.

And you make an excellent point (and this is not the first time) about Microsoft talking big and not delivering. I would like to hear what some of those in here have to say in response to that, because it seems to be legitimate to be doubtful of Microsoft's commitment to making these things happen when they've been saying the same thing for several years and it's yet to happen. I'm sure instead we'll just get a bunch of "Sony fans R UNFAIR REEEEEEEEE" but it's worth a shot.

So buying six new studios is seen as talking big is it? Not to mention all the things that they have already addressed and turned around in the last few years yet still people are refusing to acknowledge a really obvious change of direction for Xbox. I think we are well beyond big talk at this point.

 

[EDMIX]

So buying six new studios is seen as talking big is it? Not to mention all the things that they have already addressed and turned around in the last few years yet still people are refusing to acknowledge a really obvious change of direction for Xbox. I think we are well beyond big talk at this point.

They've bought teams before, they've spent lots of money before. In order for anyone to really believe this publisher is serious about this, we'd need to get a whole gen of them just supporting those teams and allowing new AAA IP. We don't need to question if Sony will support their teams with new IP....

When have they not? So when you go from Ratchet, Sly, Jak to Uncharted, Infamous, Resistance, to The Last Of Us, Ghost Of Tsushima, Horizon, Death Stranding etc, its not questionable if said publisher supports new IP. That only becomes a problem when every gen is Halo, Forza combo back to back to back. So MS has a habit of this, they need to break that habit and have a set up like how you see with Sony.

Established titles like Killzone, didn't stop Horizon.

So Halo shouldn't stop 343 from doing something new. They need balance and they can't keep resting 99% of their energy on those IP. So yea I'm worried and question if they will actually allow those teams to do new concepts as many of those teams are known for smaller games, I'm hoping that MS has them for something big vs a bunch of small projects to accompany Halo, Gears, Forza all over again, but only time will tell.

btw I own a platform to buy MS games on and still yet to find much to buy from them. This isn't a Sony thing...this is a MS has messed up big time this gen and seems to be looking to next gen already.

 

[Thiagosc777]

Anyone who critiques Microsoft is a Sony fan, apparently. And a few years ago, it was the Sony fans calling me a Microsoft fan. It's funny how people project their own stereotypes onto you when you disagree with their narrative. It only serves to weaken their argument, though.

And you make an excellent point (and this is not the first time) about Microsoft talking big and not delivering. I would like to hear what some of those in here have to say in response to that, because it seems to be legitimate to be doubtful of Microsoft's commitment to making these things happen when they've been saying the same thing for several years and it's yet to happen. I'm sure instead we'll just get a bunch of "Sony fans R UNFAIR REEEEEEEEE" but it's worth a shot.

"Talking big and not delivering" only in the imagination of desperate Sony fans.

They delivered the most powerful console, the best BC implementation giving the Xbox hundreds of exclusives, the best deal with gamepass, on top of the best gaming network and now they bought 6 studios and built another one from the ground up.

But, please, go on. Keep embarassing yourself.

 

[HeresJohnny]

"Talking big and not delivering" only in the imagination of desperate Sony fans.

They delivered the most powerful console, the best BC implementation giving the Xbox hundreds of exclusives, the best deal with gamepass, on top of the best gaming network and now they bought 6 studios and built another one from the ground up.

But, please, go on. Keep embarassing yourself.

I was talking about games. I remember them promising all this software output several years ago, but nothing has manifested really, has it? What good is everything you cited without what I've just cited?

 

[EDMIX]

"Talking big and not delivering" only in the imagination of desperate Sony fans.

They delivered the most powerful console, the best BC implementation giving the Xbox hundreds of exclusives, the best deal with gamepass, on top of the best gaming network and now they bought 6 studios and built another one from the ground up.

But, please, go on. Keep embarassing yourself.

yea I don't know about that. Building a powerful device means very little without decent exclusive software. "hundreds of exclusives", that makes even less sense. This generation saw MS going multiplatform so I'd argue just the opposite. Gamepass is pretty much like what PS Now is right now.

So some last gen games (not all) , hardware, a rental service and more games going to PC is legit what XB did this gen?

That doesn't sound that good...to say last gen games and the publisher putting games on PC is some sort of big deal as in (positive for XB) is almost laughable.

They just didn't deliver in exclusive games and the biggest thing this gen for them is buying teams they should have been buying before this gen even started. Its like being happy a restaurant after 4 hours decided they wanted to hire cooks or something. Good yes, but the fact that its happening at all questions the business when across the street another place has been feeding their customers since day 1.

So I hope for the best for this publisher, but the criticism is justified by gamers. So one must question, when you say "now they bought 6 studios and built another one" why on earth was the publisher NOT doing this since last gen? Even now them buying those teams is for next gen. So I see little reason to give an A for turning in late work, but respect the effort in turning it in at all, but I can't get mad at Sony or Nintendo for actually SHOWING UP and provising their fans with content. This is simply celebrating MS finally acting like a publisher that wants to stick around, but it should have never even got this far in the first place. That alone is making me play a wait and see as I don't see me ever owning a XB, but just buying their games on PC. They've proven time and time again that they simply can't be trusted and we'll need a whole gen just to see if they are good on their word.

 

[HeresJohnny]

yea I don't know about that. Building a powerful device means very little without decent exclusive software. "hundreds of exclusives", that makes even less sense. This generation saw MS going multiplatform so I'd argue just the opposite. Gamepass is pretty much like what PS Now is right now.

So some last gen games (not all) , hardware, a rental service and more games going to PC is legit what XB did this gen?

That doesn't sound that good...to say last gen games and the publisher putting games on PC is some sort of big deal as in (positive for XB) is almost laughable.

They just didn't deliver in exclusive games and the biggest thing this gen for them is buying teams they should have been buying before this gen even started. Its like being happy a restaurant after 4 hours decided they wanted to hire cooks or something. Good yes, but the fact that its happening at all questions the business when across the street another place has been feeding their customers since day 1.

So I hope for the best for this publisher, but the criticism is justified by gamers. So one must question, when you say "now they bought 6 studios and built another one" why on earth was the publisher NOT doing this since last gen? Even now them buying those teams is for next gen. So I see little reason to give an A for turning in late work, but respect the effort in turning it in at all, but I can't get mad at Sony or Nintendo for actually SHOWING UP and provising their fans with content. This is simply celebrating MS finally acting like a publisher that wants to stick around, but it should have never even got this far in the first place. That alone is making me play a wait and see as I don't see me ever owning a XB, but just buying their games on PC. They've proven time and time again that they simply can't be trusted and we'll need a whole gen just to see if they are good on their word.

I don't get why people aren't pissed about this. I mean, you bought a platform and there have been promises made that simply haven't come true, and now people get all butt-hurt and rush to defend them when people bring up a perfectly valid critique on why more games haven't manifested. Not being cheeky, but I seriously don't get it guys.

 

[JoeyWestSide]

Is IOI looking for a publisher as well? I wonder about their side of things as well and their future plans especially considering stability.

 

[Humdinger]

Anyone who critiques Microsoft is a Sony fan, apparently. And a few years ago, it was the Sony fans calling me a Microsoft fan. It's funny how people project their own stereotypes onto you when you disagree with their narrative. It only serves to weaken their argument, though.

And you make an excellent point (and this is not the first time) about Microsoft talking big and not delivering. I would like to hear what some of those in here have to say in response to that, because it seems to be legitimate to be doubtful of Microsoft's commitment to making these things happen when they've been saying the same thing for several years and it's yet to happen. I'm sure instead we'll just get a bunch of "Sony fans R UNFAIR REEEEEEEEE" but it's worth a shot.

The article he linked to is just Mattrick saying they're investing 1 billion in exclusive game development. The problem with that statement is that it doesn't give a baseline. How much were they spending on developing exclusive games prior to that? Maybe a billion a year is what they normally spend -- in which case it's just status quo. Or maybe it represents a 10% increase over baseline, in which case ... whoop dee doo?

So, there's a big difference between that statement, which is untethered to any sort of baseline and so cannot be interpreted, and the current situation, in which you see, very obviously, a radical departure from status quo. They were not buying up substantial development houses before. They were shutting them down. Now they are buying them up. Not just a couple, but 6 or 7 (I've lost count). They've doubled the number of development teams working for them.

So it's apples and oranges.

 

[EDMIX]

The article he linked to is just Mattrick saying they're investing 1 billion in exclusive game development. The problem with that statement is that it doesn't give a baseline. How much were they spending on developing exclusive games prior to that? Maybe a billion a year is what they normally spend -- in which case it's just status quo. Or maybe it represents a 10% increase over baseline, in which case ... whoop dee doo?

So, there's a big difference between that statement, which is untethered to any sort of baseline and so cannot be interpreted, and the current situation, in which you see, very obviously, a radical departure from status quo. They were not buying up substantial development houses before. They were shutting them down. Now they are buying them up. Not just a couple, but 6 or 7 (I've lost count). They've doubled the number of development teams working for them.

So it's apples and oranges.

Either situation can be seen as questionable. Its not saying the situations are the same, its saying this isn't the first time the company has talked about big changes with suspect results.

It would be like saying "oh they are just saying they will invest 100 million, THIS time they are saying 1 BILLION, BIG difference, apples and oranges" etc.

So time will tell JUST like it did last time. I want to see how this plays out end of next gen. We won't really know if they are commited to supporting new concepts until they actually really start doing it long term consistently.

 

[Kerotan]

Consoles are dead in Japan.

Ridiculous statement. Only in the USA has the ps4 sold more then in Japan. It's sonys second biggest country in terms of consoles sold. Just because xbox is dead there doesn't mean consoles are. About 7.5m of sonys WW victory over xbox comes from Japan.

 

[Three]

MS needs to buy Crytek already.

Amazon licenced cryengine for lumberyard so I don't think they would even be able to. Amazon would buy them before MS does.

 

[Clear]

I don't get why people aren't pissed about this. I mean, you bought a platform and there have been promises made that simply haven't come true, and now people get all butt-hurt and rush to defend them when people bring up a perfectly valid critique on why more games haven't manifested. Not being cheeky, but I seriously don't get it guys.

its because the people arguing are clearly really invested in Xbox. The way that One X is talked about like its the only Xbox console in the market is a dead giveaway. They simply aren't representative of the average Xbox user, who owns an OG or S model, most likely has dabbled with GamePass, but primarily plays a one or more of the behemoth annualized franchises from EA/Activision/Ubi etc.

Those folks are the real market, and the deal they've gotten from MS this gen hasn't been that great truthfully. They were promised the "best experience" when they bought their systems, but now they are right at the bottom of the stack and half the time any shortcomings with the versions available to them are barely mentioned anywhere because all the media and the internet talks about is the One X.

I'd be furious myself, especially if I'd bought an S, thinking it was a meaningful upgrade.

 

[Gavon West]

The PS4 launched after the Xbox One. There were no discussions amongst people about power because there were no comparisons being made at that point outside of enthusiasts in the press, which the general public doesn't even see Power hasn't been an issue for decades, and it still isn't an issue; if it were you'd be seeing the base model PS4 and the S dying on the vine while the Pro and X took over the market, but they're not. The only one attempting to rewrite history is you by trying to force your imaginary world off as fact where the more powerful console somehow wins over all the uninformed masses from some kind of osmosis passed down from the hardcore. That's all bullshit, and that's not me saying it's bullshit, but history itself. You've been living in the GAF bubble too long to realize that the lens by which we see the world and the market is vastly different than that of the average consumer who buys a game console. It happened when the Xbox (and Gamecube) both went up against the PS2. It happened when the N64 went up against the Playstation, and it happened when the 360 went up against a Sony platform that was seemingly designed to fail.

EDIT: The reason that the Xbox One lost to the PS4 wasn't because of a disparity of power, but a lack of common sense. It cost $500 and it came with a peripheral no one wanted any more (which Microsoft doubled down on and said if you didn't want Kinect then you don't want an Xbone). That's cancer right there. You choose to ignore all that shit and instead say it was because gamers were told some games ran at 900p instead of 1080p... yeah right. The Xbone would have stood a fighting chance, but between price and the no-worky butthole Kinect controller, power was the least of its worries.

Again, if the goal was to sell the already devoted on a more powerful machine, then the X was absolutely necessary. The general public isn't going to give a shit. To them, the Xbox is the Xbox S.

Wow! Talk about living in an imaginary world.

You're right that it began with faulty decisions from the onset for the One (charging more for less, forced /Kinect/DRM) , but once the generation began and comparisions were being made with Resoluton Gate, power in fact played a HUGE role in the success of the Ps4 base system . I mean, if you really want facts, lets put them all on the table - not just the one's you want to use in order to make your point. Simply put; your statement can be chalked up as bullshit, or fanboy rubbish. Let's keep it real, shall we?

And I'm not sure if you're just being willfully dense or just dont quite understand how this works but, it's the hardcore that spreads the message to the casual fanbase in the gaming community. They're the first adopters, and talk from the hardcore gamers trickles down to those less in the know -- those who dont follow or interact with forums such as these. Power was HUGE at the beginning of this gen and the only reason its no longer an issue is because the Ps4 nor the Pro can tout as being "the most powerful box" any longer. This is precisely why it changed to First party games - which Sony has a slew of - and they capitalized on it. I can't blame them.

I'm not saying you're flat out wrong - only that youre half right. Power wasn't the ONLY reason that the X One failed, but it played a MAJOR factor in the beginning and totally played a huge role in the big picture to present. No bubble, no bullshit, no half-truths. I definitely remember how things played out.

What's funny is that in the beginning, Sony fans weren't shouting about games either - they were speaking on power and Indies because at the time, the PS4 had NO GAMES. And at the time MS had more exclusives than Sony. Whether you liked what was on offer at the MS first party buffet or not, is of no consequence. Those are the facts.

They've bought teams before, they've spent lots of money before. In order for anyone to really believe this publisher is serious about this, we'd need to get a whole gen of them just supporting those teams and allowing new AAA IP. We don't need to question if Sony will support their teams with new IP....

When have they not? So when you go from Ratchet, Sly, Jak to Uncharted, Infamous, Resistance, to The Last Of Us, Ghost Of Tsushima, Horizon, Death Stranding etc, its not questionable if said publisher supports new IP. That only becomes a problem when every gen is Halo, Forza combo back to back to back. So MS has a habit of this, they need to break that habit and have a set up like how you see with Sony.

Established titles like Killzone, didn't stop Horizon.

So Halo shouldn't stop 343 from doing something new. They need balance and they can't keep resting 99% of their energy on those IP. So yea I'm worried and question if they will actually allow those teams to do new concepts as many of those teams are known for smaller games, I'm hoping that MS has them for something big vs a bunch of small projects to accompany Halo, Gears, Forza all over again, but only time will tell.

btw I own a platform to buy MS games on and still yet to find much to buy from them. This isn't a Sony thing...this is a MS has messed up big time this gen and seems to be looking to next gen already.

Please, please, please display for me the past teams that MS said they would buy and never came through....I'll wait.

Again, why is it so difficult for posters like yourself to understand that MS were on a very short leash with totally different management before?

And frankly, if you can't agree that there is surely a major difference in MS from the past and now, then you're argument (at least in my opinion) is rubbish.

Over $1 Billion (and still counting) dollars invested in the making and acquirment of seven new studios in six months has NEVER happened before in the history of the gaming community. I mean, like.....EVER! If that doesnt say that things have changed tremendously for the MS camp and that they STILL cant be trusted, I fear your issues with the company may be a bit deeper than you let on. I havent even mentioned the other major investments and consumer-friendly moves they've made ASIDE from buying/creating studios nor the employment of over 600 new devs. Shit, we can just push that aside for now as it makes you look utterly foolish! What near trillion dollar company makes a MASSIVE investment like the ones MS has made recently, and simply begins in with the bad decisions that brought them to the place where things had to be rectified, in the first place? That's just fucking retarded - yet - here you are, suggesting just that. Smh...

I mean, fuck sakes breh....you freely admit that even though you have a platform to enjoy MS games to play on, you dont care for what they have to begin with. Clearly you just arent a fan of MS games - that's totally cool! We get it! But then...why come into the thread and debate when you dont care for the brand or its offerings? That makes your opinion mute and untrustworthy from the outset. If you come with the ol', "well, I want them to sell me an Xbox" bullshit, I'll directly tell you to shove that shit, because you just stated that you have a platform to play their games on if you so choose to.

"They need an entire generation to prove they're serious about gaming".

Are you serious??? Maybe for you, but for some of us, we dont walk around setting HUGE standards for a company we have no interest in endorsing to begin with. That's just ridiculous and petty -- which is par for the course for many here, unfortunately.

Seriously, you gotta ask yourself why a self proclaimed gamer who doesnt care for a brand or it's games (regardless if PC. Xbox console or its software) would even have an opinion on the platform or its games when they dont care for it in any way. Clearly they arent here to convince themselves...so honestly, what would be the purpose of that??? Hmmm...

I dont care for Playstation games. They have nothing I want so I dont invest in what they offer. But I dont go into Sony threads to express my disdain for the brand -- I just said I dont care for it or their games. I dont even go into Playstation threads to criticize them. It's just not my bag. I'm happy where I am with Xbox. Why would I?

The ONLY reason I would do such a thing is because I'm looking to get others to join me, trying to convince others of the same thing. Why else would I do it? Unless I'm a closet Xbox fanboy. Then I just have problems.....

 

[quickwhips]

So I just downloaded hitman on gamepass to give it a try. Pretty fun so far.

 

[Humdinger]

Either situation can be seen as questionable. Its not saying the situations are the same, its saying this isn't the first time the company has talked about big changes with suspect results.

It would be like saying "oh they are just saying they will invest 100 million, THIS time they are saying 1 BILLION, BIG difference, apples and oranges" etc.

So time will tell JUST like it did last time. I want to see how this plays out end of next gen. We won't really know if they are commited to supporting new concepts until they actually really start doing it long term consistently.

Sounds to me like you're going to continue to doubt their intentions until all the new studios have delivered new games that are successful and well-reviewed.

That's fine. Some people need to see the thing in their hands, before they believe. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe, as someone said, I forget who.

I've got enough to go on right now, personally. I don't blame others for withholding judgment. I do blame them for not recognizing that MS is making some big purchases that are substantially different from vague promises made in the past.

 

[EDMIX]

Sounds to me like you're going to continue to doubt their intentions until all the new studios have delivered new games that are successful and well-reviewed.

That's fine. Some people need to see the thing in their hands, before they believe. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe, as someone said, I forget who.

I've got enough to go on right now, personally. I don't blame others for withholding judgment. I do blame them for not recognizing that MS is making some big purchases that are substantially different from vague promises made in the past.

"Sounds to me like you're going to continue to doubt their intentions until all the new studios have delivered new games that are successful and well-reviewed."

Well yes.....that is the only logical thing to do really as for all we know after a few years into next gen and some of those IP don't work, they might end up letting them go and going back to the classic only focusing on Gears, Halo, Forza combo. Thats why I"m just waiting until end of next gen as we know not of how they will react to how those games even do to really be assuming its 100% different at MS. We won't really know that until that generation is done and over with.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Wow! Talk about living in an imaginary world.

You're right that it began with faulty decisions from the onset for the One (charging more for less, forced /Kinect/DRM) , but once the generation began and comparisions were being made with Resoluton Gate, power in fact played a HUGE role in the success of the Ps4 base system . I mean, if you really want facts, lets put them all on the table - not just the one's you want to use in order to make your point. Simply put; your statement can be chalked up as bullshit, or fanboy rubbish. Let's keep it real, shall we?

And I'm not sure if you're just being willfully dense or just dont quite understand how this works but, it's the hardcore that spreads the message to the casual fanbase in the gaming community. They're the first adopters, and talk from the hardcore gamers trickles down to those less in the know -- those who dont follow or interact with forums such as these. Power was HUGE at the beginning of this gen and the only reason its no longer an issue is because the Ps4 nor the Pro can tout as being "the most powerful box" any longer. This is precisely why it changed to First party games - which Sony has a slew of - and they capitalized on it. I can't blame them.

I'm not saying you're flat out wrong - only that youre half right. Power wasn't the ONLY reason that the X One failed, but it played a MAJOR factor in the beginning and totally played a huge role in the big picture to present. No bubble, no bullshit, no half-truths. I definitely remember how things played out.

What's funny is that in the beginning, Sony fans weren't shouting about games either - they were speaking on power and Indies because at the time, the PS4 had NO GAMES. And at the time MS had more exclusives than Sony. Whether you liked what was on offer at the MS first party buffet or not, is of no consequence. Those are the facts.

On these forums it mattered. To the general public it didn't. What mattered was a $500 price tag, the same price tag that Sony suffered from only made worse because buyers saw that some of that cost was due to a bullshit controller that they didn't want. It's really that simple. Dude, do you honestly believe the general public knows what 900p or interlaced versus progressive, or checker boarding or any of the other terms that get flung around here mean? They don't. And they wouldn't give a flying fuck if they did. They want a box that plays games. Want proof? Again, power has never been a predictor of success. If it were, the hardcore would dictate from a mountain on high to the ignorant, unwashed masses their enlightenment and the chosen console would rule the world. Please, you're being arrogant. You give people like you and I too much credit. In the grand scheme of things, we get the ball rolling, but we are meaningless beyond that. You need to get over yourself with this idea that the hardcore has some kind of prophetic power that gets passed down to what you consider lesser gamers. If anything, it will be those casuals that dictate who stands where with what at the end, and they always have. Guys like us? Pretty much meaningless aside from the fact that we are there through thick and thin and can be counted on to kick off the generation. Knowing all this, do you really think the X speaks to someone who may not even buy a console until it is $200 or less? Do you really believe that? It speaks to one buyer and one buyer only: an Xbox devotee with $500 disposable dollars and a 4k television, which is a tiny, tiny, tiny subset of a market with 160 million or so potential buyers. You want to call what you wrote as facts, but my facts are about to be played out in every shopping mall and online retailer across the world in the next 40 days or so, where the S will outsell the X by a huge margin. Those will be and are the facts.

As to your last point, you can say it was a power issue all you want, but the Xbone's failure is historically linked to one thing with all consoles that have struggled: price. You can talk about everything else, but a high price has and always will dictate success. It's been this way for decades, and it's not going to change just because you wish it were not so.

 

[Clear]

if MS buying IOI keeps the lights on, I'm all for it. Personally I'd rather they got commissioned to do an Xbox exclusive and kept their independence generally, but I've explained why I think that elsewhere.

To be fair to MS what they have done recently shows promise, but, the issue is that you can't know what response its going to elicit from their competitors, or indeed if its going to impact other aspects of the Xbox business.

I mean, as with IOI they could be purchased outright, or they could be commissioned to create platform exclusive content (timed or permanent). Same goes with all other independent developers, and these business arrangements rarely make news until the project itself starts getting promoted.

That's this thing that kinda bothers me. What MS are doing by hyping these acquisitions seems like a PR play specifically tailored to address perceptions that their first-party line-up is weak. The studios they've bought aren't really bringing much in the way of established IP into the fold, so what they are bringing to the table is largely unknown outside of those with a pre-existing relationship like Undead Labs or Playground.

To me, it seems obvious that Phil Spencer is always going to need to work within a certain annual budget, and running all these new studios is going to be taking a significant chunk of it. Which begs the question how much is going to be left for other product deals, are they going to be able to compete with Sony leveraging their install-base advantage to get timed-exclusivity and/or marketing deals from the big third-parties?

Noone outside the boardrooms knows this, and its potentially a very impactful thing.

 

[Humdinger]

"Sounds to me like you're going to continue to doubt their intentions until all the new studios have delivered new games that are successful and well-reviewed."

Well yes.....that is the only logical thing to do really as for all we know after a few years into next gen and some of those IP don't work, they might end up letting them go and going back to the classic only focusing on Gears, Halo, Forza combo.

It's not "the only logical thing to do," though. It's just the only thing you think is logical to do. Not the same thing.

When a company makes a massive new investment in game development, I take that as a good sign, a sign that they have shifted priorities. That's a logical inference.

I don't need all the games to be excellent before "I believe." That's not realistic. Some of the games will be mediocre, just as some of what Sony puts out is mediocre. All I need to know is that they're moving in the right direction. I think the massive investment makes it clear that they are.

 

[EDMIX]

On these forums it mattered. To the general public it didn't. What mattered was a $500 price tag, the same price tag that Sony suffered from only made worse because buyers saw that some of that cost was due to a bullshit controller that they didn't want. It's really that simple. Dude, do you honestly believe the general public knows what 900p or interlaced versus progressive, or checker boarding or any of the other terms that get flung around here mean? They don't. And they wouldn't give a flying fuck if they did. They want a box that plays games. Want proof? Again, power has never been a predictor of success. If it were, the hardcore would dictate from a mountain on high to the ignorant, unwashed masses their enlightenment and the chosen console would rule the world. Please, you're being arrogant. You give people like you and I too much credit. In the grand scheme of things, we get the ball rolling, but we are meaningless beyond that. You need to get over yourself with this idea that the hardcore has some kind of prophetic power that gets passed down to what you consider lesser gamers. If anything, it will be those casuals that dictate who stands where with what at the end, and they always have. Guys like us? Pretty much meaningless aside from the fact that we are there through thick and thin and can be counted on to kick off the generation. Knowing all this, do you really think the X speaks to someone who may not even buy a console until it is $200 or less? Do you really believe that? It speaks to one buyer and one buyer only: an Xbox devotee with $500 disposable dollars and a 4k television, which is a tiny, tiny, tiny subset of a market with 160 million or so potential buyers. You want to call what you wrote as facts, but my facts are about to be played out in every shopping mall and online retailer across the world in the next 40 days or so, where the S will outsell the X by a huge margin. Those will be and are the facts.

As to your last point, you can say it was a power issue all you want, but the Xbone's failure is historically linked to one thing with all consoles that have struggled: price. You can talk about everything else, but price has and always will dictate success. It's been this way for decades, and it's not going to change just because you wish it were not so.

Agreed. Good read, lots of great points.

"power has never been a predictor of success" Wii, PS2, DS etc all successful, all weaker then their competitors and all cheaper then them too.

 

[HeresJohnny]

It's not "the only logical thing to do," though. It's just the only thing you think is logical to do. Not the same thing.

When a company makes a massive new investment in game development, I take that as a good sign, a sign that they have shifted priorities. That's a logical inference.

I don't need all the games to be excellent before "I believe." That's not realistic. Some of the games will be mediocre, just as some of what Sony puts out is mediocre. All I need to know is that they're moving in the right direction. I think the massive investment makes it clear that they are.

Microsoft has had a "give me fire and I'll give you wood" type attitude for a while imo. They expect people to buy systems when they don't release many games. For some, this has grown tiresome and they now are want to see the goods before their good faith is restored. That not only sounds logical, it sounds reasonable imo.

 

[EDMIX]

It's not "the only logical thing to do," though. It's just the only thing you think is logical to do. Not the same thing.

When a company makes a massive new investment in game development, I take that as a good sign, a sign that they have shifted priorities. That's a logical inference.

I don't need all the games to be excellent before "I believe." That's not realistic. Some of the games will be mediocre, just as some of what Sony puts out is mediocre. All I need to know is that they're moving in the right direction. I think the massive investment makes it clear that they are.

yea I'm going to wait and see.

Moving in the right direction is irrelevant if they don't stay and continue to commit to that. So I don't buy things based on " a good sign" i buy based on if its good in general and the company is actually doing what they promised to do long term. We won't know until we see how they act all of next gen.

 

[cdthree]

"Sounds to me like you're going to continue to doubt their intentions until all the new studios have delivered new games that are successful and well-reviewed."

Well yes.....that is the only logical thing to do really as for all we know after a few years into next gen and some of those IP don't work, they might end up letting them go and going back to the classic only focusing on Gears, Halo, Forza combo. Thats why I"m just waiting until end of next gen as we know not of how they will react to how those games even do to really be assuming its 100% different at MS. We won't really know that until that generation is done and over with.

I wouldn't be so concerned that they are going to close all these studios if their first games bomb. It's all about gamepass, now. So, I guess if Microsoft says in the future that gamepass has tens of millions of active users then you can deduce that these studios are safe? I get people are stacking gamepass deals so it's not the full 10 dollars a month, but new games from these studios won't be out for years. Gotta start building your ecosystem sometime. Still hoping for that last huge publisher for Christmas, though. One of the big three would be insane for Microsoft and gamepass. They wouldn't even have to force them to go only Xbox only, either. Just have their games appear on gamepass.

 

[octiny]

So much salt in this thread.

 

[EDMIX]

I wouldn't be so concerned that they are going to close all these studios if their first games bomb. It's all about gamepass, now. So, I guess if Microsoft says in the future that gamepass has tens of millions of active users then you can deduce that these studios are safe? I get people are stacking gamepass deals so it's not the full 10 dollars a month, but new games from these studios won't be out for years. Gotta start building your ecosystem sometime. Still hoping for that last huge publisher for Christmas, though. One of the big three would be insane for Microsoft and gamepass. They wouldn't even have to force them to go only Xbox only, either. Just have their games appear on gamepass.

I don't think it will be all, simply questioning if they will do it to some of those games are not as expected, but you make a good point on games pass as I feel that is the real reason they are actually doing this.

 

[Kerotan]

its because the people arguing are clearly really invested in Xbox. The way that One X is talked about like its the only Xbox console in the market is a dead giveaway. They simply aren't representative of the average Xbox user, who owns an OG or S model, most likely has dabbled with GamePass, but primarily plays a one or more of the behemoth annualized franchises from EA/Activision/Ubi etc.

Those folks are the real market, and the deal they've gotten from MS this gen hasn't been that great truthfully. They were promised the "best experience" when they bought their systems, but now they are right at the bottom of the stack and half the time any shortcomings with the versions available to them are barely mentioned anywhere because all the media and the internet talks about is the One X.

I'd be furious myself, especially if I'd bought an S, thinking it was a meaningful upgrade.

I'd be furious too. But I think a lot of xbox buyers were and a big chunk of them traded in the xbox and Switch platform. It would explain why the price of second hand xb1 are so much cheaper then ps4. Supply of trade ins must be high

 

[cdthree]

I don't think it will be all, simply questioning if they will do it to some of those games are not as expected, but you make a good point on games pass as I feel that is the real reason they are actually doing this.

I would think they would be safe for a long time. Unless Microsoft starts green lighting each studio with 100 million dollar budgets, which would be a disater. The small studios, I would assume would get 25-75 percent jumps in budgets plus all of Microsoft for technical help. So these small guys that where living on 1.5-3 million budgets with the increased budgets aren't taking too much money. They just have to hit 2-3 years turnout with a high quality products. As long as gamepass and Live numbers continue to go up they should be safe. I would think gaming is here to stay for Microsoft, the projected numbers for the gaming industry are huge and soon Microsoft will hit the 15 billion dollar mark like some of their other divisions. Netflix just started cancelling their original programming that were performing badly. But they were paying an astronomical price per episodes for some shows, supposedly. I really can't believe the money that was quoted, crazy money.

 

[EDMIX]

I would think they would be safe for a long time. Unless Microsoft starts green lighting each studio with 100 million dollar budgets, which would be a disater. The small studios, I would assume would get 25-75 percent jumps in budgets plus all of Microsoft for technical help. So these small guys that where living on 1.5-3 million budgets with the increased budgets aren't taking too much money. They just have to hit 2-3 years turnout with a high quality products. As long as gamepass and Live numbers continue to go up they should be safe. I would think gaming is here to stay for Microsoft, the projected numbers for the gaming industry are huge and soon Microsoft will hit the 15 billion dollar mark like some of their other divisions. Netflix just started cancelling their original programming that were performing badly. But they were paying an astronomical price per episodes for some shows, supposedly. I really can't believe the money that was quoted, crazy money.

" As long as gamepass and Live numbers continue to go up they should be safe. " Agreed. I think they will be making a killing on gamepass for a long time to come. I feel PS Now and Gamepass will start to hurt RedBox and Gamefly if they start doing individual rentals, but a topic for another discussion.

 

[Zewp]

I don't recall ever giving them shit about acquiring Rareware or Bungie. Again, IO is not an acquisition that is going to glean many IPs of value and I question whether the talent has already been fleeing. Just because one doesn't think IO is a good purchase, doesn't mean I'm against Microsoft trying to flesh out its development output.

I didn't say you were giving them shit for acquiring Bungie or Rare. I'm saying you're giving them shit for trying to fix what people (mostly Sony fanboys) have been giving them shit for the whole generation. You didn't just say you don't think they should acquire IO. You basically said they shouldn't have bought all these studios and should also not have brought out the Xbox One X.

You either won't be satisfied with MS, no matter what they do. Or you're actually sincere, but don't understand how business works at all.

 

[Gavon West]

On these forums it mattered. To the general public it didn't. What mattered was a $500 price tag, the same price tag that Sony suffered from only made worse because buyers saw that some of that cost was due to a bullshit controller that they didn't want. It's really that simple. Dude, do you honestly believe the general public knows what 900p or interlaced versus progressive, or checker boarding or any of the other terms that get flung around here mean? They don't. And they wouldn't give a flying fuck if they did. They want a box that plays games. Want proof? Again, power has never been a predictor of success. If it were, the hardcore would dictate from a mountain on high to the ignorant, unwashed masses their enlightenment and the chosen console would rule the world. Please, you're being arrogant. You give people like you and I too much credit. In the grand scheme of things, we get the ball rolling, but we are meaningless beyond that. You need to get over yourself with this idea that the hardcore has some kind of prophetic power that gets passed down to what you consider lesser gamers. If anything, it will be those casuals that dictate who stands where with what at the end, and they always have. Guys like us? Pretty much meaningless aside from the fact that we are there through thick and thin and can be counted on to kick off the generation. Knowing all this, do you really think the X speaks to someone who may not even buy a console until it is $200 or less? Do you really believe that? It speaks to one buyer and one buyer only: an Xbox devotee with $500 disposable dollars and a 4k television, which is a tiny, tiny, tiny subset of a market with 160 million or so potential buyers. You want to call what you wrote as facts, but my facts are about to be played out in every shopping mall and online retailer across the world in the next 40 days or so, where the S will outsell the X by a huge margin. Those will be and are the facts.

As to your last point, you can say it was a power issue all you want, but the Xbone's failure is historically linked to one thing with all consoles that have struggled: price. You can talk about everything else, but a high price has and always will dictate success. It's been this way for decades, and it's not going to change just because you wish it were not so.

You Know, I'd almost be willing to give you a "B" for effort about power, if Sony didn't attempt to deceive casuals with their last sales add that advertised RDR2 in 4K when it clearly wasn't the case. But, you know...... Power doesn't matter. Right?

Ans I never said power was THE measure of success to consoles, but it definitely was this gen, and Sony fans, gaming journalists and the rest of gaming media made it quite known.

You can't keep stating that power never mattered when after the X1 initial reveal, DF began making comparisons. I think the first was Battle Field? It was 720p on the One and 1080p on the PS4. That's when power began to play a major role in the console wars.

But before that, it was all about 3rd party games and indies, because the PS4 had a really slow start, MS had all the exclusives - but in that same time frame, Sony fans we're screaming about how exclusives didn't matter. 3rd party and indies was where its at.

Xbox fans didn't like hearing that. Because we were playing a pretty solid line up of exclusive 1st party games in primarily 720p and 900p.

You can pretend otherwise if you choose. Doesn't change facts.

 

[HeresJohnny]

I didn't say you were giving them shit for acquiring Bungie or Rare. I'm saying you're giving them shit for trying to fix what people (mostly Sony fanboys) have been giving them shit for the whole generation. You didn't just say you don't think they should acquire IO. You basically said they shouldn't have bought all these studios and should also not have brought out the Xbox One X.

You either won't be satisfied with MS, no matter what they do. Or you're actually sincere, but don't understand how business works at all.

I didn't say you were giving them shit for acquiring Bungie or Rare. I'm saying you're giving them shit for trying to fix what people (mostly Sony fanboys) have been giving them shit for the whole generation. You didn't just say you don't think they should acquire IO. You basically said they shouldn't have bought all these studios and should also not have brought out the Xbox One X.

You either won't be satisfied with MS, no matter what they do. Or you're actually sincere, but don't understand how business works at all.

I'll take that as a compliment coming from someone who thinks the X is fixing what ails Microsoft. Same with buying IO. Paying a bunch of money for essentially the Hitman franchise and an office full of designers (and we aren't even sure of that, talent has a way of fleeing when things go bad at most companies) is never going to look like a sound business move to me. You also didn't hear me giving them shit about Obsidian either, as they'd be gaining Pillars of Eternity and a few other franchises but most importantly a team that has worked on RPGs, which the system needs badly. Just be honest, you don't want anyone giving Microsoft any shit about anything they do. They've been listening to this kind of thinking and that's why they are where they are. They need to start thinking about how to make a global product rather than one that only makes enthusiasts on a forum happy.