Rumor: sony in talks to acquire take-two interactive

Feb 11, 2019
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Even if it was Microsoft rumoured to be the one buying, i'd still think there would be zero chance. Its just too much money involved., and wouldn't be worth it, i mean what was it $14bil?, thats like what 300-400mil game sales at full price or something?. It would of took years for them just to get their money back.
They have high gross margins, they have almost $2b in cash, more like a $11-12b deal. Net cash flow of 0.5-0.8b annually, on paper, its not bad for sure, maybe not great but not bad. They make very high margins but with that is incontinent earnings because of gaps between the big releases i.e. GTA/RDR. You're looking at a $1-2b revenue a year company with around half of that being margin money.

$130 might be high, but its a good solid business. People pay 120 PE on Netflix, you want to talk about paying up for a stock. LOL
 
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Afro Republican

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Sony not too long ago did bid for 20th Century Fox that is at least 5 times more expensive than Take 2.
2/3rds of Fox's revenue doesn't go away with Sony buying them and it's a huge company that would guarantee instant money and would have covered the losses quickly while also pushing Sony into relevancy in a market they are struggling in allowing them to expand and make more money in a very very short amount of time, as well as a foothold to fight competitors in the future.

The two aren't comparable.
 

JLB

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Sony not too long ago did bid for 20th Century Fox that is at least 5 times more expensive than Take 2.

People really has that ideia Sony is in bankrupt situation? It is not 2010 anymore.
It not about being bankrupt or not. Its about having the capital to make such an investment. I mean, yeah, Sony could give a try to buy a company like MS, which is 20x its size.
Another story is that company will accept.
Anyway, all of this is just fake, so it makes not a lot of sense from the scratch.
 
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2/3rds of Fox's revenue doesn't go away with Sony buying them and it's a huge company that would guarantee instant money and would have covered the losses quickly while also pushing Sony into relevancy in a market they are struggling in allowing them to expand and make more money in a very very short amount of time, as well as a foothold to fight competitors in the future.

The two aren't comparable.
2/3 of T2s revenue doesn’t go away if they buy them either.

You are looking at it through a PlayStation lense and thinking as if T2 were being acquired as a first party studio. That would be insane.

Look at it through a Sony Group lense as them buying a major publisher.
 
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They have high gross margins, they have almost $2b in cash, more like a $11-12b deal. Net cash flow of 0.5-0.8b annually, on paper, its not bad for sure, maybe not great but not bad. They make very high margins but with that is incontinent earnings because of gaps between the big releases i.e. GTA/RDR. You're looking at a $1-2b revenue a year company with around half of that being margin money.

$130 might be high, but its a good solid business. People pay 120 PE on Netflix, you want to talk about paying up for a stock. LOL
Just did a quick google and it states they have 13.21B cash so they could do an all cash deal although I’d still expect it’d be a mix of cash and stocks if something were to go ahead.

https://amigobulls.com/stocks/SNE/cash-flow/quarterly
 

Afro Republican

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2/3 of T2s revenue doesn’t go away if they buy them either.

You are looking at it through a PlayStation lense and thinking as if T2 were being acquired as a first party studio. That would be insane.

Look at it through a Sony Group lense as them buying a major publisher.
Which would automatically make them first party and under the control of Sony. Which would push them to PlayStation, their gaming division.

Unless you're saying they won't buy them for exclusivity, which then would make this rumor even more nonsense because Sony wouldn't win any bid for them. The orignal point of the rumor was Sony was trying to do this under the radar, which of course didn't happen and the rumor was false, but IF it was real, the only reason why they would do that was to sneak a deal and then already be in the buying process before others noticed.

If this ended up being a public thing Sony couldn't win an auction for them if they wanted to. Heck, MS might even lose that one. Amazon or Google would pay premium to grab them to actually have a real way to enter the industry without spending $billions trying to start a library from scratch and writing it off.
 

plip.plop

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Why would Take2 just accept whatever Sony offers when they could allow other companies with deeper pockets to put a bid in for maximum profit? We are starting to see more companies entering the gaming space, Take2 knows their IP's are some of the biggest hitters in the market now.
 
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Just did a quick google and it states they have 13.21B cash so they could do an all cash deal although I’d still expect it’d be a mix of cash and stocks if something were to go ahead.

https://amigobulls.com/stocks/SNE/cash-flow/quarterly
They have have about $12-13b in cash/equivalent, and $11-12b in liquid securities. (there is a link to their financials in the thread, you'll have to do yen conversion though) Banks and money markets (as a generalization) don't pay any interest anymore, so they have half of it in liquid securities.

This was correct when I spot checked it, assuming the rest is correct, avoiding having to do conversion. :)
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/SNE/sony/cash-on-hand

2/3 of T2s revenue doesn’t go away if they buy them either.
About 25% or about, rough guess on 85/15 console/pc split and 70/30 ps/xbox on the console revenue. EA numbers would not work out well at all. Doesn't sound like this is in the cards anyhow, but interesting to talk about.
 
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2/3rds of Fox's revenue doesn't go away with Sony buying them and it's a huge company that would guarantee instant money and would have covered the losses quickly while also pushing Sony into relevancy in a market they are struggling in allowing them to expand and make more money in a very very short amount of time, as well as a foothold to fight competitors in the future.

The two aren't comparable.
Neither Take 2 lol

Around 60% of Take 2 sales are probably already PlayStation plus with Sony being owner of the company the publisher and store cuts decrease drastically.

So even without the sales for PC, XB1, SW, etc the profit go up because the sales on PlayStation won't be shared with 3rd.
 
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Why would Take2 just accept whatever Sony offers when they could allow other companies with deeper pockets to put a bid in for maximum profit? We are starting to see more companies entering the gaming space, Take2 knows their IP's are some of the biggest hitters in the market now.
10+ billion is still a lot of money for any company. But it's more of a matter of those companies being able to justify the cost, so maybe multiple bidders aren't actually there. Google might be joining the battle but why make such a huge expense year 0? That's sort of reckless without knowing how their prospects look.
 
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Why would Take2 just accept whatever Sony offers when they could allow other companies with deeper pockets to put a bid in for maximum profit? We are starting to see more companies entering the gaming space, Take2 knows their IP's are some of the biggest hitters in the market now.
This deal isn't happening but if it were it can be more than just money. If take 2 wanted to sell, and no one else offered, and sonys offer was within your expectations you take it. If sony wanted to to do this then they thought it through. They thought about what it would be like to absorb 10 new studios and thousands of new employees.

Believe it or not, Phil cant just crash the party because Microsoft has the money to do so. He has to run past the CEO, Who then has to run it past a board. A board that not until to long ago wanted to shut xbox down completely. They've givin him lee way and have allowed him to buy a few small studios here and there but theyre not going to let him, on a whim, spend 12 plus billion dollars and hire thousands more employees to cock block sony.

We don't know exactly what google goals are yet. We haven't heard that theyre interested in buying first party content. Amazon seems late to the party already so if anyone was going to try and derail a hypothetical deal it might be them.

Again this deal isn't happening though so who knows.
 
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The real story here is that an overly bloated publisher owns the rights to this many IPs. It would be better if publishers didn't own the IPs in the first place.

Personally, I would consider it an act of treason worthy of the death penalty to the most severe if we had to play Civilzation on a Playstation with a game pad.
 
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idk they think its 2009 or something. anyway

sony is not nearly as big as ms or google obviously. but they have more than enough money to acquire Take two. take two is smaller than the playstation division by a margin. a large margin. and sony is much bigger than playstation alone.
No they don't, it would take nearly 14 billion to acquire Take Two just at their stock value, and that's if they agreed to that, they pose far more value than their liquidity.

Sony as a corporation has a market cap of $58 billion and their cash reserve is just over $13 billion which is a part of that $58 billion, that's the entire company; that is Sony... They're not even on the map in terms of having the capability of making an acquisition that would amount to basically 1/3 of their entire business.

Also don't even bring up Microsoft or Google in a conversation with Sony, Sony is a solar system and those two are galactic in comparison.
 
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No they don't, it would take nearly 14 billion to acquire Take Two just at their stock value, and that's if they agreed to that, they pose far more value than their liquidity.

Sony as a corporation has a market cap of $58 billion and their cash reserve is just over $13 billion which is a part of that $58 billion, that's the entire company; that is Sony... They're not even on the map in terms of having the capability of making an acquisition that would amount to basically 1/3 of their entire business.

Also don't even bring up Microsoft or Google in a conversation with Sony, Sony is a solar system and those two are galactic in comparison.
Read the thread. They have around $13b in cash and $11-12b in liquid market securities. And all acquisitions are not always completely cash deals, many deal are all stocks. I even posted the link to the actual financials, it doesn't sound like its happening but you are wrong at least at these levels.

their cash reserve is just over $13 billion which is a part of that $58 billion
I don't know what the fuck this even means, market cap is just a "theory" as to how much a company is worth based on the last trade i.e. made up number based.
 
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Read the thread. They have around $13b in cash and $11-12b in liquid market securities. And all acquisitions are not always completely cash deals, many deal are all stocks.

I even posted the link to the actual financials, it doesn't sound like its happening but you are wrong at least at these levels.
All of that is still factored into their market cap, a company can't offset 1/3 of its entire business for an acquisition.

They would be committing suicide.
 
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All of that is still factored into their market cap, a company can't offset 1/3 of its entire business for an acquisition.

They would be committing suicide.
No its not, market cap is a fictional number based on the last trade, I have 100 shares outstanding x last trade $10 = theoretical market cap $1,000. Its purely a fictional number to get idea of worth. What is anything worth?

Sony's stock could go to $1 a share and they would still have enough cash and cash equivalents to buy them at the rumored price (which seems fictional now), unless there something in the financials hiding somewhere or they pulled a Enron or Tesla on us. That's just looking at the balance sheet at a glance.

(I would suggest reading the thread, you can go thru the financials yourself... maybe you will find an error?)

What is Valve Software's market cap? $0 or none, as its not a publicly traded company... as its just a theory or opinion of worth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_capitalization
 
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Dynamite,

Hopefully this helps further, and if you see an error let me know. I know my way around a balance sheet, but I would never say I'm an accountant, so maybe I made a mistake.
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/18q3_sony.pdf
(Look on page 2 F-1)
You will see cash and cash equivalent, and you will see market securities. You add those numbers up and you have a good idea of liquid assets that can be used in a fairly short period of time. Of course, it doesn't mean they can't sell other assets or give assets to make a deal happen, they can even finance the deal, no stock or cash, technically. After you add the numbers together, convert from yen to dollars, and you have a rough estimate of what they got as far as cash type assets. Again, this is just a rough estimate, they could in theory have a security that matures in 6 months, but many deals take 6-18 months to get done anyway. I would say its safe to say they have $13-25b to play around with but they would probably would never go to the top end of that range.

Marketable securities are liquid financial instruments that can be quickly converted into cash at a reasonable price. The liquidity of marketable securities comes from the fact that the maturities tend to be less than one year, and that the rates at which they can be bought or sold have little effect on prices.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/marketablesecurities.asp

TTwo in theory would only represent about 2% of its revenues or so of Sony's pie, and about 4% of its workforce, but it doesn't sound like any of this is going to happen anyway.

Sony's balance sheet is starting to look good, but it seems 1 or 2 units are always bring down the rest, PS is doing well, but might have topped out this cycle, its somewhat likely you will see a weakening of its financials as they spend for PS5 and the end of PS4, at least normally this is what happens. (this is just my take)

I hope that helps. :messenger_peace:
 
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All of that is still factored into their market cap, a company can't offset 1/3 of its entire business for an acquisition.

They would be committing suicide.
Market cap is based in stock vale and it has no relation with the actual business assets and cash of the company.
 
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No they don't, it would take nearly 14 billion to acquire Take Two just at their stock value, and that's if they agreed to that, they pose far more value than their liquidity.

Sony as a corporation has a market cap of $58 billion and their cash reserve is just over $13 billion which is a part of that $58 billion, that's the entire company; that is Sony... They're not even on the map in terms of having the capability of making an acquisition that would amount to basically 1/3 of their entire business.

Also don't even bring up Microsoft or Google in a conversation with Sony, Sony is a solar system and those two are galactic in comparison.
On the 2018 balance sheet Sony has just under 15 billion in cash and another 11 billion in 'other short term assets', this is usually money or stock / wip owed to them. When realized , that is added to cash or cash equivalents on hand. Meaning they could have close to 25 billion if needed.

Now, when you talk about size of the company , you seem to be confused. 58 billion is Sony's market capitalization. This is not very reflective of Sony in terms of Long term assets, which it is actually very close to Microsoft. Both are around 175 billion.

The 58billion you are refering to is the price of stock, Japanese stock has been very unpopular with investors for a very long time. This is due to factors outside Sony's control. The Yen is highly volatile and Japan has been in a long term recession with an aging workforce and difficult competition from neighboring countries.
In essence Sony is very undervalued and should be worth at least around 100 billion but stocks are just glorified gambling and really are taken to mean much more than they actually do.
 

Mod of War

Ooo. Piece of candy.
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But....but.....but Sony fanboys told me they have billions in the bank and can buy out Microsoft leave alone a skeleton company like Take Two. lol
Knock it off, nobody said that. You already had a post deleted, so raise your signal:noise ratio please and stop trying to ignite immature wars.

As for everyone else, you can discuss gaming, even prefferences without getting far too fanatical with inanimate consumer product worshipping; on all sides.
 
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Knock it off, nobody said that. You already had a post deleted, so raise your signal:noise ratio please and stop trying to ignite immature wars.

As for everyone else, you can discuss gaming, even prefferences without getting far too fanatical with inanimate consumer product worshipping; on all sides.
There's people above my post clearly entertaining the idea of Sony acquiring Take Two with serious consideration. It's an embarassing thought that's easily debunked with simple mathematics.
 
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There's people above my post clearly entertaining the idea of Sony acquiring Take Two with serious consideration. It's an embarassing thought that's easily debunked with simple mathematics.
Actually you are the one that is embarrassing yourself.

Whether Sony are or are not acquiring Take Two can be debated. In all seriousness it looks like people are reading too much into something that actually happened - T2’s stock price actually did move on the strength of rumours of an acquisition by Sony

But they quite clearly could pull off a deal of that size, as can (and has been) explained my anyone with modicum of comprehension of their accounts and/or corporate finance. Be interested to know what “simple mathematics” you think debunks that.
 
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I would like Sony to be "in talks" with us about Medievil... Or WiLD....
Lots of vaporware going around.
Regarding buying studios, Sony seems to prefer expanding teams or creating new teams inside their studios than buying new ones. Buying a brand new studio and getting it in sync Sony way of doing things seems like a waste of time and money. MS is about to find that out with a bunch of studios at the same time.
 
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There's people above my post clearly entertaining the idea of Sony acquiring Take Two with serious consideration. It's an embarassing thought that's easily debunked with simple mathematics.
Well, I challenge you to show us the simple math. (popcorn)

Obviously, it doesn't look like it will happen, but not because of math.
 
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There's people above my post clearly entertaining the idea of Sony acquiring Take Two with serious consideration. It's an embarassing thought that's easily debunked with simple mathematics.
Sony can and has the money to buy Take 2 that is a fact no matter how do you think Sony is in bankrupt.

Said that the actual deal happening is another story.

You just ashamed tourseft with these ignorant posts.
 
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I would like Sony to be "in talks" with us about Medievil... Or WiLD....
Lots of vaporware going around.
Regarding buying studios, Sony seems to prefer expanding teams or creating new teams inside their studios than buying new ones. Buying a brand new studio and getting it in sync Sony way of doing things seems like a waste of time and money. MS is about to find that out with a bunch of studios at the same time.

Maybe, but Naughty Dog and Guerrilla Games were both acquired studios. The trouble is that getting Take two would be acquiring a whole bunch of studios at once...may be a bit of a resource drain for a few years.
 
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Or it didn’t happen because of math...

:pie_thinking::pie_diana:

Not in the context of the rumor i.e. they don't have enough money to purchase TTwo, they do at the price of the rumor, generally speaking. Do they have enough assets at $1,500 per share, probably not. Simply speaking within the context of the rumor.
:messenger_fistbump:
 
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