How do you explain the jump from 199 to 299 then? As time goes on prices go up, everyone understands that with inflation. So 6 years after the previous batch Nintendo thought it was ok to go up 50 bucks. I think it will be fine.
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Rumor: Wii U final specs
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
How do you explain the jump from 199 to 299 then? As time goes on prices go up, everyone understands that with inflation. So 6 years after the previous batch Nintendo thought it was ok to go up 50 bucks. I think it will be fine.
360 was $399. Unless you only acknowledge the existence of the core pack.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Wuu specs so far:
CPU: 3-core CPU, with each core being an upgraded Broadway CPU
GPU: AMD Radeon e6760 equivalent or better graphic processing unit
Memory: 32MB eDRAM (accessible by both GPU/CPU?), and 2GB of DDR3 general ram (of which 1GB is currently accessible to developers)
Misc: ARM-chip for OS(?), DSP for sound.
All in all, it looks like a 2-4x upgrade over the current generation.
CPU: 3-core CPU, with each core being an upgraded Broadway CPU
GPU: AMD Radeon e6760 equivalent or better graphic processing unit
Memory: 32MB eDRAM (accessible by both GPU/CPU?), and 2GB of DDR3 general ram (of which 1GB is currently accessible to developers)
Misc: ARM-chip for OS(?), DSP for sound.
All in all, it looks like a 2-4x upgrade over the current generation.
Did you not read my post? $299 is the limit...Nintendo going from $199 to $249 didn't impact on anything. I would have paid $299 for both a GCN and N64 had they priced them as such.
You have to acknowledge the core pack. It exists to appease those who won't buy above $299...that's my point...if MS could have done one SKU at $399 they would have...but they didn't because they know they're cutting off a massive amount of consumers.
eh, how are they supposed to share edram? it can't really be embedded in both GPU and CPU at the same time can it? The CPU may be able to access it in some manner but I'd assume that would be far slower than accessing the main memory. It's very likely however that the main memory is shared, and that the GPU can write to main memory when doing gpgpu stuff, (or when you run out of edram if you have lots of rendertargets).
Yet you list the higher of the two PS3 skus? Double standards.
frankie_baby
Member
The 20gig ps3 was so limited in availability it might as well not have existed
Dude your post fails. Really it lacks the adjustment to inflation. But you don't need to do the math here you go:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/177337/Sizing_up_Wii_Us_price_tag_against_history.php
Sony didn't make it freely available to buy...and then announced they were going to discontinue it because of "lack of demand".
no one calculates their electronics purchases with inflation...lol
Still launched at that price.
True but the point was PS3 sales bombed at launch due to pricing...
It's not because you do not calculate with inflation that your logic makes sense.
The value remains the same, even if its priced " higher" it is the equivalent of what you have paying so far, so you have no point. People earn more so things cost more.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Seriously, do people just pull these numbers from thin air or something...
Its his guestimate, why do you care?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Literally no one bought the core 360 pack for pretty much the first two years it was on shelves. It wasn't until the arcade console with the 4GB built in, and later the 360 slim, that it actually picked up momentum.
It doesn't matter...purchases are psychological more than anything.
You think Apple care about peoples incomes and inflation? They get people lining up for iPhones because they get the psychological aspect of selling. What's in peoples pockets and bank accounts matters little if you can get in someones head enough to matter.
There has not been a console yet in history that has been released which breaks the price barrier and sells well and when that happens you make sure to bump this thread and gloat but till then you haven't raise a valid point and your skirting the issue.
Saturn was the original 599
Figuratively, because I literally bought it.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
I want my systems affordable, but inflation is a real thing.
$299 today isn't the same as $299 fifteen years ago, so you will either pay a little more or get a little less. That's the way it is.
You have to account for inflation. The $199 NES is the equivalent of $426.07 today!!
So you are saying the Wii U basic is worth $299 but the same system with more memory and a $60 dollar game is not worth $50 more? Nonsensical! I hope you don't plan on buying Nintendoland then....
Thaedolus
Member
Of course people don't sit down and compare a chart like that to determine what a console is worth, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think inflation plays a huge role. When I was 11 and the N64 came out, $200 was a massive amount of money to me and my family. It took months of saving my birthday money and allowance to get it at launch. Now I'm a grown ass man with a mortgage and a job and $350 doesn't seem too bad for a black Wii U. Inflation and perception are totally a part of what goes into a purchase. There is no magic price barrier because the worth of a dollar is always going to be relative.
I don't think $299 is some 'set in stone' limit, I just think that above that you have to bring something pretty special to the table.
Ah, dude. I feel genuinely bad now. I don't want to upset you. As an olive branch, I promise not to make a single negative comment about the Wii-U for a whole week. Just for you.
Ah, dude. I feel genuinely bad now. I don't want to upset you. As an olive branch, I promise not to make a single negative comment about the Wii-U for a whole week. Just for you.
Glad that I'm not the only one reasonable around here!
Bluemercury
Member
Let's see how special MS and Sony consoles will be, because they will clearly be more expensive than that....
Why? Why would you commit to that? 7 days is a long time smoke.
Anyway, I remember Saturn stealth launching and was super hyped! Played a demo unit at Software Ect. and was ready to start getting ideas of how I was going to get the cash. I asked the dude the price, listened to his spiel, put down the controller and silently walked to my bus stop. What the FUCK were SEGA thinking?
I want a WiiU at launch but they sold out of preorders the day before I had the money to put down. I don't feel like doing this same song and dance of getting up early and hitting all the retail spots. I did it with the 360 (luckily I got word of the Dec. 18th relaunch at bestbuy and lined up) and the Wii. I'm 32 now......i don't think I have it in me!!
I do love new toys but sadly I do not feel I will be on board for this one. I am yet to see any compelling reason for me personally to 'jump in'. Who knows what time will bring though.
I'm OK with that, I think. Sony make fucking sweet hardware and MS got the games on lock. Obviously it remains to be seen but I'm quietly confident they'll bring the goods.
I've given CaptainN a hard time and I feel bad. It's the least I can do. Ain't gonna be easy though
I bought the Saturn at launch and it totally blew me away. Sega Rally at home was just an incredible experience. The following months as it died on it's arse were horrible. Here in the UK it just got battered senseless by the PS1, it was a merciless slaughtering.
You know what I will bump this thread when Orbis/Durango pricing is announced and I can guarantee people will bitch and moan if MS and Sony announce a $400-$499 console.
I can see it now;
GAF "But but but...you subsidized consoles before why not now MS/Sony?"
MS/Sony; "We giving you them 1080p graphics and 60fps and moar powah with a billion blops and flops for Avatar-esque graphics"
GAF; "But but but $499 US DOLLARZ!!!"
I can see it now;
GAF "But but but...you subsidized consoles before why not now MS/Sony?"
MS/Sony; "We giving you them 1080p graphics and 60fps and moar powah with a billion blops and flops for Avatar-esque graphics"
GAF; "But but but $499 US DOLLARZ!!!"
I'd drop 400/499 dollars on a console in a heartbeat if it's actually brimming with great hardware and games. It will sit pretty right next to the Wii-U.
You should try and be less bothered about other people's preferences
For it to matter, you'll need to drop the 'GAF' and call out actual posters.
test_account
XP-39C²
It is more a question about value rather than a pricetag. At least i strongly assume so. Goes for all systems.
Buy whatever you want and stop projecting your preferences onto others. This sort of post only serves to derail the thread.
Seems reasonable, I like that attitude! So this basically means that you'll get one when they release a GT-like F-Zero, riiight?
Another article about the DX11 Unity comments
http://gamingbolt.com/wiiu-is-capabl...3-and-xbox-360
Wii Us graphics are quite proficient according to Unity Technologys CEO David Helgason. He mentions that the tech in Wii U can scale nicely and the rumours about it being underpowered.
In a pre-briefing interview with Gaming Blend, Helgason mentioned that the Wii U will be able to take advantage of all the latest Unity Engines features.
Yeah. Well do a well make it potentially possible to do, he said.
Whats interesting is that our philosophy is always this: We have a match work flow and Im sure we can make a decent game and prototype, and theyre fun. And then we have a shared system that basically allows you to access the full capabilities of the hardware you run. Thats going to be good whether youre running [software] on an iPhone, the Wii U, a gaming PC or whatever.
The Wii U wont run Direct X11 because the API is owned by Microsoft and theres no way Nintendo will license that. However, the Wii U is capable of Direct X11 equivalent graphics using different APIs like Unity 4.
http://gamingbolt.com/wiiu-is-capabl...3-and-xbox-360
Wii Us graphics are quite proficient according to Unity Technologys CEO David Helgason. He mentions that the tech in Wii U can scale nicely and the rumours about it being underpowered.
In a pre-briefing interview with Gaming Blend, Helgason mentioned that the Wii U will be able to take advantage of all the latest Unity Engines features.
Yeah. Well do a well make it potentially possible to do, he said.
Whats interesting is that our philosophy is always this: We have a match work flow and Im sure we can make a decent game and prototype, and theyre fun. And then we have a shared system that basically allows you to access the full capabilities of the hardware you run. Thats going to be good whether youre running [software] on an iPhone, the Wii U, a gaming PC or whatever.
The Wii U wont run Direct X11 because the API is owned by Microsoft and theres no way Nintendo will license that. However, the Wii U is capable of Direct X11 equivalent graphics using different APIs like Unity 4.
1080p60 F-Zero (even a remake of GX) and I'm there. That, or a new Rakuga Kids. They're my weak-points.Seems reasonable, I like that attitude! So this basically means that you'll get one when they release a GT-like F-Zero, riiight?
Naaa have you seen console price announcements on here...people always bitch and moan...
Wii - 2 GCN'S duct-taped together, no HD graphics and you want me to exercise whilst gaming and you want $250!!!
PS3 - $599...R.I.P Kutaragi-san! Ridge Raaaacccer...Giant Enemy Crab!
Xbox 360 - What! No HD DVD drive, Tard pack and pay for online!?!
DS - N64 graphics and gimmicky gameplay for little kids and it looks like a Tiger handheld all for $150!?!
bgassassin
Member
Only direct info I received related to the CPU was that the bus between the CPU and GPU was "something MS wish they had".
Optimization is a part of it. Devs wouldn't be "failing" at that because shifting code to the GPU is not a trivial task from what I understand. The CPU isn't inferior so much as it obviously being different compared to Xenon and Cell and that difference is the most likely culprit.
It will need a newer gen tessellator unit as the R800 TU was not good either. It would need to have one from as early as the Cayman line to do well. You'd think/hope it has one even newer than that due to the customizations.
I think you're partially right, in that it's intended both as a framebuffer and as low-latency GPGPU memory.
In fact, that brings me to another thought I'd had. I've been of the opinion for a while that this chip being manufactured in Fab 8 is the Wii U GPU, something which would imply that the eDRAM is on-die with the GPU, rather than on a separate die. If IBM is involved in manufacturing the GPU, there might be other implications, though. A few pages back, Matt talked about the Wii U's GPU having a "significant" increase in registers over the R700 series. More register memory would be a benefit to GPGPU functionality, but usually comes at the expense of added transistors, which means higher power usage, more heat and a larger, more expensive die.
But what if Nintendo has replaced the register memory (which I assume is usually SRAM) with eDRAM? IBM's eDRAM takes up roughly one third the transistors of SRAM, and has similar power and heat benefits. With it, they could double the available register memory, from 128 registers per thread to 256, while decreasing the transistor count over the reference R700. Alongside the extremely low memory latency that would come with an on-die 32MB pool of eDRAM, and the 32nm manufacturing process, this would make for a GPU which is very GPGPU code friendly, while still consuming very little power, both things which Nintendo seems to be focussing on. It would also be an answer to the question posed a few pages back of "Why would Nintendo spend years modifying a R700 rather than just using something like an E6760?"
Metal Gear?!
Member
Make sure your links work:
http://gamingbolt.com/wiiu-is-capab...is-obviously-better-than-the-ps3-and-xbox-360
Code:
http://gamingbolt.com/wiiu-is-capable-of-dx-11-graphics-is-obviously-better-than-the-ps3-and-xbox-360
XtremeXpider
Member
Unity 4 is not an API, it is an engine.
They don't even need to remake GX, a straight port at 1080p would still look amazing (have a look at some of the screens of it in the Dolphin thread).
In theory (although of course this goes against what I posted above) the CPU, GPU and eDRAM could each be separate dies on a MCM (multi-chip module) with a high bandwidth, low latency bus going between them. Such a set-up isn't without it's complexities, but it is possible.
hahahahahahahahahahaha
I kid, I kid. Just wanted to laugh at you since you know at least 10x what I do about this stuff.
BTW, can someone please refresh my memory on how RAM bandwidths are calculated? If I remember right, it's the interface width X the speed, and then since DDR is dual channel, that number is multiplied by 2. Right? Or are you guys going to laugh at me like I just laughed at wsippel (except for reals this time)?
I didn't mean to imply that the eDRAM wouldn't be used to store the framebuffer and some render targets, but I don't think it's a dedicated framebuffer.
No, but as you said
It's psychological and back in the 80's and 90's those prices felt like maybe a $3-400 console does now due to our higher incomes etc.
I don't thin it'll happen. Read the Orbis/Durango threads and people there are wanting it to be high cause that means great higher end tech. Personally I'd have paid more for a Wii U if it was gruntier.
Was that "Wish they had in the 360 days"? Or do you mean now because they've gotta be building a machine far superior to Wii U this time around right?
snowdog1971
Banned
Yup, there were even a few months when the GBA outsold it! :Oo
plagiarize
Banned
*some* people sure... but what Dave is getting at is that GAF isn't a gestalt entity, and that for there to actually be hypocrisy you have to find individual posters being hypocrites.
you can't call out GAF for hypocrisy. GAF is what? thousands of individuals all with different tastes. name names or don't bother.
snowdog1971
Banned
Nope, it's simple math...although I'd personally say 3-4 times:
2GB of RAM compared to 512MB.
3MB of CPU cache compared to 1MB.
32MB of eDRAM on the GPU compared to 10MB.
A GPU that's at least 2 generations ahead of the Xenos.
A GPU that's likely to have a superior tesselation unit and General Processing capabilities.
A CPU with Out of Order Execution instead of In Order Execution.
A CPU that isn't going to be bogged down with processing audio, IO and the OS.
The above is why it's not cheap. We're certainly not talking about another Wii situation here.
Graphics Horse
Member
I loved the Jaguar, the skinnable keypad was ahead of its time.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Still not entirely sold on the CPU being totally up to snuff, and IMO it's where I look for a bottleneck to come 1st. Though I fully admit I could be wrong.
The GPU is light years beyond the 360 and PS3 though. Anything respectable from the 4XXX series onward IMO is a metric ton better than either of the current HD console setups.
I'll be interested to see how the RAM pans out, and if over the life cycle of the system if Nintendo gives devs access to the other 1 gig RAM pool down the road.
I'm also interested in how loud or quiet the system will be when doing some serious tasks and accessing the big disc.
The GPU is light years beyond the 360 and PS3 though. Anything respectable from the 4XXX series onward IMO is a metric ton better than either of the current HD console setups.
I'll be interested to see how the RAM pans out, and if over the life cycle of the system if Nintendo gives devs access to the other 1 gig RAM pool down the road.
I'm also interested in how loud or quiet the system will be when doing some serious tasks and accessing the big disc.