It's speculation that's what the eDRAM will be used for.
Framebuffer sizes next gen will also be much bigger. Killzone 2 already managed 36mb.
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Rumor: Wii U final specs
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
It's speculation that's what the eDRAM will be used for.
Framebuffer sizes next gen will also be much bigger. Killzone 2 already managed 36mb.
It isn't speculation, the idea of putting a load of extremely fast memory on your GPU and then bypassing it when rendering the frame its frankly insane.
Also source on Killzone 2?, it renders at 720p with AA AFAIK.
As is, unmodified and standalone, you are correct. But, modified, it can be In the Wii U.
eDRAM has many different uses. PS2 and 360 use it very differently..
They both use eDRAM for their frame buffer, despite the differences in how the memory was connected and configured (and the fact that PS2 also used some as a texture cache). Like I said it'll be used as a frame buffer and possibly more.
Isn't that pretty much the definition of eDRAM?
Also it's unlikely that it will be used for GPGPU stuff as access from the CPU will likely be much slower than main ram, if it's even possible
Like you say, PS2 eDRAM was more flexible. But with Wii U it's more likely to be accessable by both CPU and GPU, so if it's usable for the framebuffer you're unlikely to get the full 32MB.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Nope, embedded only for one of those..
..And yet something has to provide same-or-better latencies to the CPU as the original 24MB of 1T-sram on the cube/wii. There's only one such candidate in the system.. Like I said, I'm very curious what AMD have come up with for the interconnect..
I think that's a given. Xenos could do memexport back in the day.
Well unless they want 1080p plus AA they're never going to come close to using 32MB. So yes I agree that its seems very unlikely it's solely for the frame buffer, but currently that's all we know for sure that it'll be used for. I mentioned other tasks and had I gone into the possibilities that would have been speculation. Nothing speculative about saying that it'll be used as a frame buffer though because that part is a certainty.
By the way, can you post a source for that Killzone 2 comment. As I said AFAIK it rendered at 720p with AA, not sure where 36MB would come from.
JonathanPower
Member
Well unless they want 1080p plus AA they're never going to come close to using 32MB. So yes I agree that its seems very unlikely it's solely for the frame buffer, but currently that's all we no for sure that it'll be used for. I mentioned other tasks and had I gone into the possibilities that would have been speculation. Nothing speculative about saying that it'll be used as a frame buffer though because that part is a certainty.
Actually, the xbox360 also used the Edram to implement additional effects like a special HDR mode.
Look what I just noticed in my inbox today...Who is writing these responses? What does he actually know? Is this some sort of conspiracy? Maybe I'll get more emails...
I really don't understand what is going on here. Why would he have emailed you back? And I'm still skeptical that he would know anything, or be able to talk about it even if he did know something.
Don't forget that physics can be done on the GPU, so that may end up looking like this:
AI (1 core)
Physics (GPU)
Game Code (1 core)
Audio (DSP)
I/O (ARM CPU)
Realtime Iwata Hair AI (1 core)
I was referring to WiiU rather than 360. But yes effects like that will always be achieved inside the eDRAM when possible due to the higher bandwidths available.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Or IOW, Xenos' edram was a framebuffer.
XtremeXpider
Member
Speculation, the part where you've said "some of the extra 1GB will be added to that later on".
And edram have a lot of uses, not only as framebuffer.
Yeah. I think it'll be DDR3. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. They'd need at least four 4Gb chips, and assuming they use IBM's quad channel controller (POWER7 has two of those per chip), that would be enough for an impressive ~100GB/s.
frankie_baby
Member
I just got a response from AMD as well. I sent my request the same day Zoramon089 posted his email.
Although it is very similar to Zoramon089, it looks like this person has made sure not to mention the exact model.
Could it be that amd staff have been casually told what wii GPU is and now attention is focussing on them they've briefed to lock down information
I personally think this is the case, despite bg being adamant that the GPU is not based on the e6760.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I just got a response from AMD as well. I sent my request the same day Zoramon089 posted his email.
Although it is very similar to Zoramon089, it looks like this person has made sure not to mention the exact model.
So now we need to figure out what embedded GPU it is.
Did the RV700-line even have any embedded GPUs?
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
100GB/s is 256-bit IO at 3.2Gb/s. Even if nintendo had 32bit-wide 2Gb DDR3 chips (so that 8x = 256bit IO, = 2GB size), that's still 1.6GHz IO. I don't think such an DDR3 exists yet - top one I've seen on recent roadmaps was ~1.2GHz, IIRC.
E4690
Erm I think you're referring to me and I've already answered you, the first is speculation but very likely. The second isn't speculation, were did I say it would be used exclusively as a frame buffer? Also why is that even relevant? You asked what advantage the extra eDRAM could provide and I gave you one example. The leaked info from Nintendo already confirmed that WiiU will:
"supports 720p 4x MSAA or 1080p rendering in a single pass"
360 didn't support that and the reason WiiU can is down to the extra eDRAM.
Their G-buffer uses 4 render targets + depth.
Zoramon089
Banned
Sounds like the tech staffer that answered my emails goofed...and he keeps goofing
How much of chips are customizable? Like could Nintendo technically add more texture units if they wanted?
edit: Looking at the responses other people are getting...Looks like I am the chosen one
My guess is still with the E6760 when looking at the numbers / specs.
How much of chips are customizable? Like could Nintendo technically add more texture units if they wanted?
edit: Looking at the responses other people are getting...Looks like I am the chosen one
SquiddyCracker
Banned
My guess is still with the E6760 when looking at the numbers / specs.
Yeah, and even if it stared out as the E4690, it being 40nm or less now suggests it has evolved into something like the E6760 performance wise (at the very least).
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I was answering the question if there was an R700 embedded part.My guess is still with the E6760 when looking at the numbers / specs.
My bad, I guess I mixed up individual chips and DIMMs. POWER7 achieves 180GB/s with two quad channel DDR3 controllers according to the data sheets, but it's not using individual chips of course.
Then again, have you ever seen that weird custom 3DS FCRAM chip? Instead of using an off the shelf 128MB/ 32bit part, Nintendo had Fujitsu design a 128MB/ 64bit chip with two 64MB/ 32bit macros on a single die. As far as I understand, that is...
I see other people have now had similar replies: Thought i'd post mine as it was interesting if predictably unrevealing
Until we have proof that is more concrete than this, I think it is only logically to accept this as the GPU base, for now, no?
WTF?!? MY BRAIN! Who's right? Who's wrong? E4690, RV7300, RV700 base, E6760?? ARRGHH! Does anyone actually know any damned thing at all?
I can't see an AMD person leaking info about a GPU. Mods, check "akmcbroom" and Zora's IP's to make sure they're not the same person
What DSP idea? Are you asking if Wii U has one? It does.
brochiller
Member
What does that custom chip accomplish that the off the shelf chip doesn't?
I'm asking because I'd like to know what motivates Nintendo to customize their internal parts because perhaps they'll apply the same sort of design philosophies to the customization of Wii U innards.
WTF?!? MY BRAIN! Who'd right? Who's wrong? Does anyone actually know any damned thing at all?
I can't see an AMD person leaking info about a GPU. Mods, check "akmcbroom" and Zora's IP's to make sure they're not the same person
Don't forget Lump!
We have three people (that we know of) getting similar emails, although mine did NOT mention the e6760.
I did send a follow up email to see if I could get a clarification though.
Edit: Make that four people - including the Spanish email that was translated first.
JordanN
Banned
20x Gamecube? I'm sure as hell not seeing any of that on PS3/360.
The first leak which was confirmed listed:
Sound and Audio
Dedicated 120MHz audio DSP.
Support for 6 channel discrete uncompressed audio (via HDMI).
2 channel audio for the Cafe DRC controller.
Monaural audio for the Cafe Remote controller.
Like the hat?
Banned
so if it is the one that Zora got in the email, would that be a good thing or a bad thing? I'm tech dumb.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
E2400 is R600.
They gave ID software a laptop loaded with Unreal Warfare alpha code...
And apparently The DOOM 3 E3 demo leak was from them as well.
I can see this being true.
EDIT: Yup! They have a history of screwing up like this.
Quite a bit stronger than current gen, with possible DX11 level support.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Good thing, it's two generations ahead of the Xenon.
2-4x better I think, though do correct me if I'm wrong people.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Huh? It is a frame buffer pool, Halo 3 used two frame buffers to produce its HDR. I don't think it is legit to say the eDRAM had special features for this.
It would confirm what the most persistent rumours have been claiming from the start: that the GPU is 2-3 times as powerful as the one in PS3/360.
brochiller
Member
Can someone refresh my memory about why we think it's a R700 GPU again? Is it possible that this rumor was only about the GPU in the devkits (which we now believe to be a 4850), but the final GPU is not of the R700 family?
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I assume you mean 16Mb x 64 chip and 16Mb x 32 macros. ..It sort of rings a bell, though I can recall from where such an info (about dual macros) might have come to me. .. Yes, I recall now - Micron was using a similar scheme for their 32-wide DDR3 chip.
2-3x as is. It has been modified, so it could be as much as 4x.
plagiarize
Banned
or slower. which is why the email warns about making presumptions about Wii U power from knowing what part it was based on.