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I would much rather have 8tb hdd for the price of 1tb ssd.

If it's cheap enough by then I don't see why not, it's better faster technology and pretty much everything evolves at some point.....The benefits of SSD's in consoles is about due, especially 2 years fron now...

Theyve been on the market for years. Theyre not even cheap enough now, they wont be cheap enough in 2 years.

 

[thelastword]

2TB SSD goes for 300$+on retail. Even if they get for 150$ it's still too expensive to put it.Just in comparison, 2TB HDD goes for 50$,so let's say 25$ for console.

We're talking prices roughly 3 years away, alot can happen in the industry in 3 years....to November 2020....Also SSD production and drive storage capacity is ramping up there, that's when you know things are about to hit a sweet spot for lesser capacity SSD drives.....It wasn't too long ago we had only 4 physical cores on our desktop CPU's, what are we seeing now? 8 cores 16 T's or by the time Ryzen 2 drops in 2019, how many, maybe 16 physical cores?.....I have not seen on aspect of technology that's at a standstill currently..Everything is being pushed forward; ram, storage, gpu, cpu's....I think it's always a difficult thing to predict/anticipate how things will pan out, if we're only looking at the current market with it's prices et al.......but if we're only looking at today to say how things will pan out tomorrow, that doesn't work for tech...Technology does not sleep...

I would much rather have 8tb hdd for the price of 1tb ssd.

Theyve been on the market for years. Theyre not even cheap enough now, they wont be cheap enough in 2 years.

Ok, suppose a PS5 had a 1-2TB SSD, there's no reason you can't also have a 16TB external to hold your games or even a 16TB internal drive? On the flip, do we really see a future in traditional drives forever. I think SSD's will takeover eventually....What technologies and advancements do you forsee with traditional disks with platters and spindles....14400rpm?...I don't think so...So yes, it may take a little while longer to phase out, but even traditional disks will be on the way out soon enough....Of course, not in 3 years, but SSD's are on the rise and will gain more widespread adoption in the next few years.....Perhaps what can usher SSD's as defacto in all devices, where prices and storage can gain better balance is if it was placed in a multi million selling console, just like what PS2 did for DVD's....

 

[paolo11]

FF7 Remake might meet PS6 launch, not sure about PS5.
I don't understand why people are fighting over resolutions, gameplay >>>> resolution everytime.

Haha, so true. If it releases on PS6, hopefully its not episodic but full package. lol

 

[LittleAngryDog]

Haha, so true. If it releases on PS6, hopefully its not episodic but full package. lol

If it releases on PS6 the graphics will be better than Final Fantasy Advent Children CGi. But if this game launch on PS5 the graphics will be exactly the same of Final Fantasy Advent Children.

 

[B_Boss]

Not necessarily...

Precisely lol. There are possible worlds (if you well) where it does help. I think of the 8GB RAM episode for the PS4 at what seemed like the last minute (if the reports I've read were correct or accurate). I think you've definitely made a powerful point though in general.

 

[luca_29_bg]

I understand what you mean by a jump of little relevance. But remember that the PS4 was not a big leap from the PS3. To tell you the truth the PS4 CPU is pretty much the same as the PS3. The most significant difference is even in the GPU and the memory. We can not forget that in terms of raw power its analysis makes sense. But it only makes sense for PC architectures. Consoles work a little differently. We do not know how the PS5 components will react together. The integration and optimization of software and language that consoles always receive is far superior to PCs. They are games focused machines. Games optimized directly on GPU and CPU. We can not compare what an AMD RX VEGA 64 with 13Tflops does on a PC today with what a PS5 will do with 12,13 or 14Tflops in the future. In the consoles little means '' more '' and '' more ''.

Cell doesn't have anything to do with jaguar so no, the cpu is not pretty much the same, and in flops count is more powerful than jaguar too, this is why ps4 can't emulate ps3 for example.

 

[Harlock]

Next gen expectations:

 

[AnimalFather]

if the PS5 is another half step i doubt it will have ray tracing.

 

[HeresJohnny]

I'll be honest, I can't wait for Sony to come out with the PS5. The PS4 has been such a fantastic return to form for them, and I've no doubt they plan on ceding any ground with the next console. I think they'll make a safe successor to the PS4 that is powerful and relatively inexpensive. Nothing was given to them with the PS4, they had to come back and re-earn their status as the industry leader and since then, it's been just like the good old days of having too many games to play. We don't even know what the specs are for the next system, but bar them going stupid again as they did with the PS3, I'm already on board.

 

[magnumpy]

We're talking prices roughly 3 years away, alot can happen in the industry in 3 years....to November 2020....Also SSD production and drive storage capacity is ramping up there, that's when you know things are about to hit a sweet spot for lesser capacity SSD drives.....It wasn't too long ago we had only 4 physical cores on our desktop CPU's, what are we seeing now? 8 cores 16 T's or by the time Ryzen 2 drops in 2019, how many, maybe 16 physical cores?.....I have not seen on aspect of technology that's at a standstill currently..Everything is being pushed forward; ram, storage, gpu, cpu's....I think it's always a difficult thing to predict/anticipate how things will pan out, if we're only looking at the current market with it's prices et al.......but if we're only looking at today to say how things will pan out tomorrow, that doesn't work for tech...Technology does not sleep...

Ok, suppose a PS5 had a 1-2TB SSD, there's no reason you can't also have a 16TB external to hold your games or even a 16TB internal drive? On the flip, do we really see a future in traditional drives forever. I think SSD's will takeover eventually....What technologies and advancements do you forsee with traditional disks with platters and spindles....14400rpm?...I don't think so...So yes, it may take a little while longer to phase out, but even traditional disks will be on the way out soon enough....Of course, not in 3 years, but SSD's are on the rise and will gain more widespread adoption in the next few years.....Perhaps what can usher SSD's as defacto in all devices, where prices and storage can gain better balance is if it was placed in a multi million selling console, just like what PS2 did for DVD's....

I think an SSHD is likely...all (or most) of the speed benefits of an SSD, and all of the capacity benefits of a traditional hard drive too. they're perfect for streamlined and cost reduced devices like consoles

 

[thelastword]

I think an SSHD is likely...all (or most) of the speed benefits of an SSD, and all of the capacity benefits of a traditional hard drive too. they're perfect for streamlined and cost reduced devices like consoles

It's ok, but I find these work better with PC's than consoles, so it will put files you use more often in the 8GB NAND for faster loadtimes and seek speeds....but I imagine Next gen games are going to be massive in size, so 8GB nand may not cut it for the loadtime speeds you want across a number of games on your HDD or games that can be built ground up for a full-fledged SSD.........

 

[LittleAngryDog]

Cell doesn't have anything to do with jaguar so no, the cpu is not pretty much the same, and in flops count is more powerful than jaguar too, this is why ps4 can't emulate ps3 for example.

Hi! I'm not saying that the cell is like Jaguar! I understand that in terms of language optimization the thing is quite complicated between the two platforms. I just want to say that the biggest jump of the generation Ps3 to Ps4 was in the GPU and not in the processor. Just as it will be in the next generation that will have a higher CPU jump than GPU, resembling what happened from the PS2 generation to the PS3 generation.

By the way, I wonder if Ps5 could emulate Ps3, Ps2 and PSONE games? If it is not possible I believe that backward compatibility will happen digitally as on Xbox One.

 

[LittleAngryDog]

Next gen expectations:

And what kind of machine is this tech demo running?

Is this really possible for a console of 12Tflops and Ryzen CPU, native 4k 30fps?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

And what kind of machine is this tech demo running?

Is this really possible for a console of 12Tflops and Ryzen CPU, native 4k 30fps?

I think I read 4X Volta GPUs...!

 

[LittleAngryDog]

I think I read 4X Volta GPUs...!

The only GPU TURN released so far was the GTX TITAN V which has something around 15Tflops. If this tech demo required 4x TITAN V hard PS5 will run something on that level. Except if the PS5 is at least 30Tflops. I think this tech demo was running at 60fps. To do this all at 30fps would be needed at least half of it. So it's best to forget and stop dreaming about Ray Tracing in the next 8 years. Games will only run Ray Tracing on the PS6 at 8k 30fps.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The only GPU TURN released so far was the GTX TITAN V which has something around 15Tflops. If this tech demo required 4x TITAN V hard PS5 will run something on that level. Except if the PS5 is at least 30Tflops. I think this tech demo was running at 60fps. To do this all at 30fps would be needed at least half of it. So it's best to forget and stop dreaming about Ray Tracing in the next 8 years. Games will only run Ray Tracing on the PS6 at 8k 30fps.

Honestly I want 8K even less than Ray Tracing. Already on a 50" 4k screen to appreciate the difference over 1080P you need to be below 3 feet from the screen. And this before I get started with HDR on TVs.

I say put all resources into GPU/CPU/RAM/BW.

 

[LittleAngryDog]

Honestly I want 8K even less than Ray Tracing. Already on a 50" 4k screen to appreciate the difference over 1080P you need to be below 3 feet from the screen. And this before I get started with HDR on TVs.

I say put all resources into GPU/CPU/RAM/BW.

Hi! I wonder how far I should be from a 40'' 4K TV ?

And answering your question. I would say that I also agree that 4K resolution is already wonderful. The gaming industry should focus on ever-better graphics assets such as Ray Tracing and a high polygonal density. If the PS6 runs 4k and has something around 60Tflops we're going to see things from the same level of AVATAR movie. But unfortunately the need to advance the resolution to each generation consumes a lot of GPU resources and this reduces the graphical advance. So it is likely that the PS6 will run 8k.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

According to Rtings chart 2.3 feet/0.71m for 40". Basically only useful as a desktop monitor in 4K!

 

[LittleAngryDog]

Does anyone know if the next generation will reach the Global Illumination??? If it is possible to render GI this will already be a great advance. Ray Trancing seems a little distant from reality until I see how powerful the architecture of the new consoles will be. While this does not happen I think it will be a bit difficult to believe just because of these Tech Demos with DirectX 12.

If we are lucky it may be the same as happened in 2012. The tech demo Samaritan made in UE3 needed 3x GTX 580 or a GTX 680. The graphic result of that tech demo seemed impossible for the time. But today we have overcome it all very easily.



RECENT GAMES

 

[LittleAngryDog]

According to Rtings chart 2.3 feet/0.71m for 40". Basically only useful as a desktop monitor in 4K!

I'm from Brazil. Could you tell me in meters?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

It is in the quote, LAD. 0.71 meters

 

[LittleAngryDog]

It is in the quote, LAD. 0.71 meters

Sorry! I made a mistake

Please! Answer my question about Global Illumination!

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I'm nowhere near qualified to answer these GI/RT technical questions, LAD. I'm sure more technically minded folks will post soon.

 

[LittleAngryDog]

I'm nowhere near qualified to answer these GI/RT technical questions, LAD. I'm sure more technically minded folks will post soon.

I'm sorry for my poor english. But what do you mean by '' LAD ''?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I'm sorry for my poor english. But what do you mean by '' LAD ''?

Little Angry Dog

 

[dano1]

if the PS5 is another half step i doubt it will have ray tracing.

Oh really what are the PS5 specs??

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Oh really what are the PS5 specs??

He did say 'if'.

It will be interesting 'if' Sony remains committed to the $400 price barrier because so many console gamers seem to have issues with once it goes beyond that. I expect a 1tb hard drive because they will just want to keep prices down. VR will remain an option which is good and bad. The question is what will the PS5 offer that will make it stand out where we need a new console?

 

[DavidGzz]

Yeah, I don't see any console coming out within the next 2 years to be too exciting if it's going to be $400. I mean, I'll still buy it especially since I passed on the Pro so it should still be a great deal stronger than my base PS4.

 

[Ar¢tos]

if the PS5 is another half step i doubt it will have ray tracing.

Even if it launches costing 800$ it won't do Ray tracing lighting/reflections. Maybe PS6 will have enough horse power for that. Ray tracing is extremely demanding for that. But even the Ps4 already uses Ray tracing for other lighter things.

 

[longdi]

The starwars Unreal demo is something of a real leap. finally!
That lighting engine is amazing,. albeit slightly low res.
And the poly-count is not bad, rounded shoulder pads and all.

I believe if you make games based on a Volta minimum, we can have that kind of graphics in realtime gameplay.

About that Samaritan demo, i think the subtle lighting and shadows are un-matched, maybe it is the dramatised look. But most games today, the lighting is rather flat in gameplay.
Hence i am looking forward to raytracing for next gen games.
Sony better not rush PS5 until we get 7nm GPUs..

 

[Tarkus98]

What’s the big deal about ray tracing? Isn’t it very GPUs intensive? There are already a good number of tricks already used to simulate this now.

 

[Blam]

If we are lucky it may be the same as happened in 2012. The tech demo Samaritan made in UE3 needed 3x GTX 580 or a GTX 680. The graphic result of that tech demo seemed impossible for the time. But today we have overcome it all very easily.

Sucks since this was a real game.

 

[Insane Metal]

What’s the big deal about ray tracing? Isn’t it very GPUs intensive? There are already a good number of tricks already used to simulate this now.

AFAIK it's CPU intensive. The real problem is not drawing it (GPU), but the huge calculations necessary for it to display light and reflections accordingly.

 

[Bluntman]

AFAIK it's CPU intensive. The real problem is not drawing it (GPU), but the huge calculations necessary for it to display light and reflections accordingly.

Nope, it's all GPU. In fact it's all compute.

If the whole game would be ray traced then we could throw the traditional pipeline in the bin (like fixed function raster units) and only go with compute. Basicly a completely software pipeline.

That would be very nice but it's years away, there is no point in dreaming of that in PS5.

 

[Bluntman]

What’s the big deal about ray tracing? Isn’t it very GPUs intensive? There are already a good number of tricks already used to simulate this now.

And since I can't edite my last post, yes. The current rasterization techniques can very well reproduce the "feel" of raytracing with a fraction of the performance cost.

So while this new DX12 Raytrace stuff is very cool, it's years away from practical use in games. Still it was a necessary first step.

 

[Klik]

I can't wait for PS5 and next gen graphics. Just a few days ago i played Horizon Zero Dawn for the first time and i was stunned by graphics.If we have graphics like this now on 1.8 Teraflop console then imagine what next gen consoles can deliver,it's gonna be glorious. And im using a regular 1080p tv not even a 4k one.I took a screenshot on ps4

 

[Reallink]

We're talking prices roughly 3 years away, alot can happen in the industry in 3 years....to November 2020....Also SSD production and drive storage capacity is ramping up there, that's when you know things are about to hit a sweet spot for lesser capacity SSD drives.....It wasn't too long ago we had only 4 physical cores on our desktop CPU's, what are we seeing now? 8 cores 16 T's or by the time Ryzen 2 drops in 2019, how many, maybe 16 physical cores?.....I have not seen on aspect of technology that's at a standstill currently..Everything is being pushed forward; ram, storage, gpu, cpu's....I think it's always a difficult thing to predict/anticipate how things will pan out, if we're only looking at the current market with it's prices et al.......but if we're only looking at today to say how things will pan out tomorrow, that doesn't work for tech...Technology does not sleep...

Ok, suppose a PS5 had a 1-2TB SSD, there's no reason you can't also have a 16TB external to hold your games or even a 16TB internal drive? On the flip, do we really see a future in traditional drives forever. I think SSD's will takeover eventually....What technologies and advancements do you forsee with traditional disks with platters and spindles....14400rpm?...I don't think so...So yes, it may take a little while longer to phase out, but even traditional disks will be on the way out soon enough....Of course, not in 3 years, but SSD's are on the rise and will gain more widespread adoption in the next few years.....Perhaps what can usher SSD's as defacto in all devices, where prices and storage can gain better balance is if it was placed in a multi million selling console, just like what PS2 did for DVD's....

I bought my first SSD in 2012, a 128GB Samsung 830 on sale for like $85. 6 years later you can maybe find a 250GB Samsung Evo 850 or 860 for around $90 on a similarly rare discount. Even off brand 250GB SSD's require sales to hit $80. Sony and MS probably pay $30-$35 for their base 500GB HDD. You are out of your mind if you think even a 1TB SSD is going to be viable for a console within 3 years, 2TB is clinical insanity.

 

[octiny]

SSD's are not happening in next-gen consoles. Expect prices to actually rise in the next year or so due to shortages. Maybe some hybrid cache drive, but definitely no SSD's.

People's expectations should be kept in check. Other than the usual GPU bump, primary focus this coming gen will definitely be on the CPU side compared to previous iterations.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

The next gen consoles coming already? Jeeze this Generation flew by. The Xbox 360/PS3 generation seemed to drag on and on.

How trustworthy is this guy. He seems like a random guy spouting things.

Yup, the 7th gen seemed like it went on forever, the Xbox 360 was friggin 8 years old before it was retired.

By contrast the 8th gen is going by as fast as the 7th gen dragged.

I'm flat out not ready for a new gen, I hope we're AT LEAST 2 years away from a PS5, preferably 3, for starters I can't afford to buy a new console for a while after having just bought a Switch and secondly there's still so many games from the last 3 years I need to play catch up on, a PS5 dropping as soon as next year is just too soon for me.

Not to mention graphics are so good now it's hard to imagine a big leap in graphics being so soon, a PS5

For what it's worth I would definitely be very surprised if there was a PS5 any sooner than 2020, at least I certainly HOPE that's the case

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

Whoops, hit reply too soon.

Anyway not to mention graphics are so good now it's hard to imagine a big leap in graphics being so soon, a PS5 seems like it would likely mostly be a PS4 Pro with a different name to me.

 

[Tarkus98]

I too doubt that straight up SSD’s will be standard on the next round of consoles. It would however be nice to swap in an SSD and have the console built to take full advantage of the unit (proper I/O, bus to fully use the speed advantages).
But still, since it won’t come standard we would still have to see if developers would program their games to make full use of it. I have no idea what kind of programming efforts are needed to do so.

 

[luca_29_bg]

Next gen expectations:

This demo runs on 60k dollars rack gpus on 1080p at 24. So i can't imagine how this could run on single ps5 ?

 

[pixelperfect]

I thought PS3 gen was the worst personally, too much focus on shooters and little else.

Ps3 gen actually had


Ridge racer
Motorstorm
Twisted metal
Virtua fighter
Wipeout
Sega rally


On and on of games that are a bit more original and not open, crafting or overly cintematic feeders.

There are some good but last gen had its share of tunnel feeders and less explorative objective and map based games such as what we got in duke or riddick even.

 

[LittleAngryDog]

I can't wait for PS5 and next gen graphics. Just a few days ago i played Horizon Zero Dawn for the first time and i was stunned by graphics.If we have graphics like this now on 1.8 Teraflop console then imagine what next gen consoles can deliver,it's gonna be glorious. And im using a regular 1080p tv not even a 4k one.I took a screenshot on ps4

The graphics of the next generation of consoles go absurdly impressive. Maybe the jump in comparison scale is bigger than PS3 for PS4. Of course it will be because we will be running 4x more pixels than the basic PS4. But I mean exactly the graphical issue like textures, animations, polygonal density and so on. I think the PS5 in this sense could represent a jump even bigger than the jump from PS3 to PS4. This time we will not only have a GPU available for the console equivalent to the HD7850 in 2013. This time the jump will be great also in the CPU that will keep pace or even exceed the capabilities of the GPU. So wait for environments with more vegetation, physics, animations, particles, destruction and so on.

Photogrammetry will be the future in games.

It is no exaggeration to wait for something on this level since today we already run things like these.

 

[AnimalFather]

at 35 for the first time in my life i dont give 2 shits about graphics. show me a good story, nice art, and good gameplay.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

Also, while we're on the subject, why did the 7th gen last so long?

I think the pretty clear answer is the recession, had it not been for that there probably would have been new consoles in 2010/2011 instead of both Microsoft and Sony releasing their own motion controls as a way to extend the lifespans of the PS3 and 360.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Also, while we're on the subject, why did the 7th gen last so long?

I think the pretty clear answer is the recession, had it not been for that there probably would have been new consoles in 2010/2011 instead of both Microsoft and Sony releasing their own motion controls as a way to extend the lifespans of the PS3 and 360.

I partly blame the PS3 CELL CPU. Devs wasted so much time (and money) getting to know its tricks that they didn't want a new gen (and a new architecture) to be forced to relearn everything again.
This gen things evolved quicker, games seem to have already reached Ps4 peak (horizon, gow, Detroit, etc).

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

I partly blame the PS3 CELL CPU. Devs wasted so much time (and money) getting to know its tricks that they didn't want a new gen (and a new architecture) to be forced to relearn everything again.
This gen things evolved quicker, games seem to have already reached Ps4 peak (horizon, gow, Detroit, etc).

While I'm sure that was a factor for Sony, it doesn't explain why Microsoft waited so long for a follow up to the 360, the Xbox 360 came out only 4 years after the original Xbox, the 360 lasted literally twice that long, 8 years, it was downright creaky by the end of it's life span (although Gears of War Judgment is a good looking game)

And with the way they rolled out the Kinect it seemed pretty clear like that was taking the place for what might otherwise been an announcement for a third Xbox console.

As a matter of fact, did the 360 have the longest life span of any console post NES?

 

[Klik]

In my opinion,console life cycle should be 6 years.Long enough to maximize console potential.For 399$ i would say it's a damn good investment for most of the people.

 

[ultrazilla]

So "Insider devs" NeoGAF members or NeoGAF tech people who *cough* may have a PS5 dev kit *cough* I'm just catching up with this thread.

Has anyone posted how powerful the kits are? Target specs? General speculation?

I'm thinking the PS5 has to be at least twice as powerful as a PS4 Pro. Is that a realistic expectation? Thanks and cheers!