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[THE:MILKMAN]

Why not when it takes multiple years to make a game. The things got to have launch titles.

Because they (third parties especially) don't need them so early. Games are mostly made on PC's running Maya and zBrush and other game creation software and most of the heavy lifting is art for characters and environment.

Killzone: SF was largely made in 2.5 years when nobody thought it possible GG could be working on a launch game for PS4 after Killzone 3 launched in March 2011 and DLC in June 2011. ND infamously made U4 almost from scratch in 2 years flat. Also much more extensive use of outsourcing is now used.

We don't know if one of Sony's big AAA teams have a launch PS5 game cooking or if the likes of RaD are making one. They only really need one big game for actual launch and then a few more in the 6-12 month window.

This quote from Herman Hulst talking to Jason Schreier about development time of Horizon tells a lot:

Jason: You guys were in development for six years? Seven years?

Hulst: We started the pitching process late in 2009. So 2010 we started concepting. We should probably acknowledge the fact that for five, six months when we were finishing Killzone: Shadow Fall there was hardly any activity on Horizon: Zero Dawn. I would say all in all about six years, maybe six and a half, is the full production cycle of Horizon: Zero Dawn. So it’s been a very long time. But that’s kind of what you need when you do your first game in a new genre, it’s a new IP, it’s your first open-world game. It takes time. But we didn’t always work on it with a full team—we started with a few guys and scaled that up to maybe 20 people for the first few years. I don’t want to make it sound more expensive than it was.

I bolded the key part. The vast majority of work on the game was done in ~3 years not 6 or 7 I assume after wrapping Killzone: SF.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Because they (third parties especially) don't need them so early. Games are mostly made on PC's running Maya and zBrush and other game creation software and most of the heavy lifting is art for characters and environment.

Killzone: SF was largely made in 2.5 years when nobody thought it possible GG could be working on a launch game for PS4 after Killzone 3 launched in March 2011 and DLC in June 2011. ND infamously made U4 almost from scratch in 2 years flat. Also much more extensive use of outsourcing is now used.

We don't know if one of Sony's big AAA teams have a launch PS5 game cooking or if the likes of RaD are making one. They only really need one big game for actual launch and then a few more in the 6-12 month window.

This quote from Herman Hulst talking to Jason Schreier about development time of Horizon tells a lot:



I bolded the key part. The vast majority of work on the game was done in ~3 years not 6 or 7 I assume after wrapping Killzone: SF.

An early dev kit is just a pc with approx specs

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

An early dev kit is just a pc with approx specs

Yes....And? Devs don't get kits nearly 3 years before a launch so if they do have them now and had them at the beginning of this year, then it is virtually guaranteed to launch late 2019.

Sony still do dedicated dev kits and while the very early PS4 ones were Bulldozer/Steamroller and R10 Radeon-based PC's I doubt any more than a few elite third party devs saw these kits. I think the vast majority of third party devs only ever got the final hardware kit from January 2013 just under a year before launch.

 

[luca_29_bg]

this should be more doable for ps5

 

[AtlAntA]

Yeah but wasn't watchdogs a big downgrade fest because the devs kinda 'guessed' the specs of nextgen wrong?

 

[GoldenEye98]

I'm not sure about 3rd parties but I could see first party studios having access to hardware 2-3 years before launch to develop launch games.

 

[bitbydeath]

Tbh I'm not sure how easy compatibility would be even if they just change the cpu, like going with Zen. Which is why I'm not unconvinced they will just keep iterating on the existing hardware/redo the PS4 Pro "mirrored approach" but with an actual upgrade in RAM. ie just squeeze more out of Jaguar on 7nm, double the GPU compute units from 36 to 72, and go to 16 or 20GB or RAM. That would make maintaining backward compatibility easier and might make hitting $399 possible.

BC isn’t anywhere near important enough to jeopardise a next-gen console.

 

[Imtjnotu]

this should be more doable for ps5

The mouth is off in a weird way

 

[Codes 208]

this should be more doable for ps5

In-engine rendered cutscenes maybe. But if the 11tflop rumor is true i wouldnt expect that level of realism without some compromises in actual gameplay.

 

[Insane Metal]

I think Ryzen (or Ryzen 2) is pretty much a lock for nextgen consoles. It should be very very cheap by then and it's leagues better than a jaguar (comparing the appropriate timeframes obviously)

 

[Silent Viper]

PS3 was a full reset, but it was compatible with PS1 and PS2 titles... PS Vita and PSP were too... Xbox One and Xbox 360 were full reset too and supported BC. Iterative cross generation forever “but it is so cool to always have the latest more often even though it has less and less meaning each year, check out iPhone for an example of that ” is another thing altogether.

Hmm you have point but didn't they drop Bc after few years? Slim was not BC.




I don't care about BC that much but it should be powerful enough to hit 60 fps in all games.

 

[Codes 208]

Hmm you have point but didn't they drop Bc after few years? Slim was not BC.




I don't care about BC that much but it should be powerful enough to hit 60 fps in all games.

The difference here is that the ps3 was using a very complicated architecture (the 7-core cell) so in order to make the slim cheaper, they took out the built-in ps2 emulator. Meanwhile ps4 cant emulate ps3 properly because of said architecture.

Now, the ps4 is using a basic pc architecture (x86-64) which makes for easier optimization and translation.

The ps5 without a doubt will most likely use the same architecture (albeit a more advanced cpu instead of jaguar) because of it's ease of use. Theres no reason why the ps5 shouldnt be able to play ps4 titles.

 

[Luck]

So everyone keeps talking that the current jaguars CPUs are slow and at a similar or slightly better level than even the CPU from the previous generation. So the next generation with probably Zen CPU might be a big leap forward from the current one. But can anyone illustrate what kind of leap we are talking about here? Like, 2-3x better in terms of power? Better? Less?

I know that it is difficult to talk about benchmarks for yet imagined specification and even compare them to custom-made Jaguars for the current generation. But maybe there are some PC comparisons/benchmarks between similar Jaguar powered PC CPUs to the Ryzen ones? Just, you know, to image the scale of progress.

And how do you think, if Sony bets on the current generation of Zen, then which version of PCs Ryzens could be similar to? Like the new Ryzen 2700 with 8c/16th or that could be still too expensive for consoles even in 2 years?

 

[Klik]

Jaguar Cpu's in PS4/XBOX aren't powerful but they are not weak like people tend to say.Just to put it out there,only 5 years after ps3/xbox360 release Battlefield 3 could only have 24 players in conquest on console due to cpu limitations. Nowadays without any trouble we even have 60fps 1080p+ res 64player on console.

 

[mitchman]

I think to be fair you need to read the whole article. The stand out TV to the participants was the 1080P LG OLED because of its superior blacks/contrast. The article writer even admits other non-resolution factors are more important for example. They even say they have no idea how the participants came to their conclusions in the blind test (which seems odd!).

It's a test with actual people, please provide references to your claim if you do not believe this is the case.

As an aside in the second shot down of the two Samsung TVs used the 1080P one has sharper text on my screen!

Yes, the camera focus is totally not a factor in a low-resolution image! This compares to people posting photos of their HDR content in a non-HDR format to show it off, not very accurate representation of the actual image.

The main takeaway for me though is this was arguably an "advert" to help sell 4K to a skeptical market given the 2013 date....

This goes both ways. You seem to use this as a justification for not buying a 4k TV, which is fine. But don't use it to berate people that actually DO see the difference and have bought 4k TVs. I have a 65" OLED with a viewing distance of around 10 feet and I have no issues seeing the difference.

 

[Lort]

So everyone keeps talking that the current jaguars CPUs are slow and at a similar or slightly better level than even the CPU from the previous generation. So the next generation with probably Zen CPU might be a big leap forward from the current one. But can anyone illustrate what kind of leap we are talking about here? Like, 2-3x better in terms of power? Better? Less?

I know that it is difficult to talk about benchmarks for yet imagined specification and even compare them to custom-made Jaguars for the current generation. But maybe there are some PC comparisons/benchmarks between similar Jaguar powered PC CPUs to the Ryzen ones? Just, you know, to image the scale of progress.

And how do you think, if Sony bets on the current generation of Zen, then which version of PCs Ryzens could be similar to? Like the new Ryzen 2700 with 8c/16th or that could be still too expensive for consoles even in 2 years?

I read it will be about 2x as fast if the same amount of die is taken up as previously ( zen is bigger than jag) so nice but not a gamechanger. A 4k 30 fps xbox one x game may become 4k60 ( with 11tf gpu (2x 6 tf of xbx) and 2x cpu) with the same graphics settings.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

You will get a Ryzen CPU in the next gen consoles but it will still be the lowest end version possible, or close to it. 2 to 3x the performance of current console CPU's sounds about right. The majority of next gen games will still run at 30fps so a monster CPU isn't required. Silicon die area budget will be mainly spent on GPU.

Hopefully MS get this cloud compute stuff off the ground and then maybe we can have some true innovation. Not just the same old games with a new lick of paint. This gen has been mostly boring IMO. I wanna see something truly groundbreaking.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Games can't depend on cloud gaming, they need to be playable offline. Unless ms is moving to gaas only to force people to only play online. Also Internet lag greatly limits "innovation".

 

[mckmas8808]

this should be more doable for ps5

THIS IS INSANE!!!! Hard to believe that this could be possible?

 

[Insane Metal]

THIS IS INSANE!!!! Hard to believe that this could be possible?

Not really that hard to believe... I mean... we already have this on PS4

 

[thelastword]

I liked the transition to the alien, I think that was more convincing, but the girl needs some work relative to how realistic she animates, even rendering is not at the "this has me fooled" "is this a human?"......It's great progress in rendering no less, but I think I'm more impressed with what I saw in TLOU2 so far....I think we will exceed this both in animation and render work on PS5.....

 

[JLMC469]

Realistically, we're (possibly) looking at a fall 2019 release?

 

[Armorian]

Realistically, we're (possibly) looking at a fall 2019 release?

It's possible but 2020 is more likely IMO.

 

[Codes 208]

It's possible but 2020 is more likely IMO.

If third party devs are already getting dev kits at this point, with how streamlined a x86 architecture can be, i wouldnt be surprised (actually im expecting) a reveal in early 2019 and a release in fall the same year.

 

[Lort]

It would be much smarter for Sony to wait sell more ps4 build its brand and not be intimidated by xbox one x power advantage. The sooner the release the less powerful machine is the simple truth.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Sony fans on forums have been pushing PS5 ever since the Scorpio was announced lol.

Out in the real world most gamers aren't desperate for a new console and this gen can survive a good while yet. Plus again, the tech doesn't exist to release a PS5 in 2019, unless it sucks. What would be the point when Sony are still flying and plenty of good games still to come?

 

[CRAIG667]

Sony fans on forums have been pushing PS5 ever since the Scorpio was announced lol.

Out in the real world most gamers aren't desperate for a new console and this gen can survive a good while yet. Plus again, the tech doesn't exist to release a PS5 in 2019, unless it sucks. What would be the point when Sony are still flying and plenty of good games still to come?

This.

 

[Zannegan]

Sony fans on forums have been pushing PS5 ever since the Scorpio was announced lol.

Out in the real world most gamers aren't desperate for a new console and this gen can survive a good while yet. Plus again, the tech doesn't exist to release a PS5 in 2019, unless it sucks. What would be the point when Sony are still flying and plenty of good games still to come?

I was thinking the same way. Given the momentum the PS4 has, the fairly recent Pro release, and the success of the 360/PS3's long generation, it seems strange to leave so much money on the table by launching PS5 in 2019. Six months might not seem like a huge difference, but I thought spring 2020 was the sweet spot, both strategically and from a hardware/production standpoint.

It all seemed so neat: PS5 would launch in spring 2020, with a more powerful and more expensive XBox 4k to follow in the fall.

However, if devkits are already out there with (slightly anemic) known specs, then Fall 2019 seems all but guaranteed. I can't think of a console that had dev kits in the wild a full two years before launch, can you? A company might send really early dev kits to trusted partners, but, if that's the case, why are we hearing about them? Either the rumor is flat out wrong, or PS5 launches 2019. I don't see another explanation.

 

[Y2H]

Out in the real world most gamers aren't desperate for a new console and this gen can survive a good while yet. Plus again, the tech doesn't exist to release a PS5 in 2019, unless it sucks. What would be the point when Sony are still flying and plenty of good games still to come?

Agreed. There are still so many games I need to play for the PS4 I'll be completely occupied for the rest of the year...and probably most of the next. I'm in no rush for a new console.

 

[thelastword]

Sony fans on forums have been pushing PS5 ever since the Scorpio was announced lol.

Out in the real world most gamers aren't desperate for a new console and this gen can survive a good while yet. Plus again, the tech doesn't exist to release a PS5 in 2019, unless it sucks. What would be the point when Sony are still flying and plenty of good games still to come?

I think most Sony fans have said they're looking at November 2020. Just earlier this year or even before the Scorpio release we got some bits on some impressive PS5 games in development, recently, we got some rumors that the dev kits are out, so I guess that really catapulted the conversation.....It's been that way for every gen tbh. It has nothing to do with XBONEX. The XBONEX is not a threat to PS4 or PRO, not in sales or exclusives, not even in mulitplats (PRO has good resolution and solid framerates there). I think PS4 fans are just waiting to play exclusive after exclusive incoming in 2018 and 2019, but hey, they can still be psyched to play Ghosts of Tsushima, FF7 Remake and 60fps multiplats on a PS5 just the same.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Games take 2+ years to develop. There is nothing wrong with giving devs approximate specs and SDKs 2 years before launching new hardware.
With AMD timetable, 2020 makes more sense when 7nm process has matured and the yields are better (most likely there will be a disabled cpu core because of the yields too). Also, my wallet is more comfortable with a 2020 launch

 

[Swizzle]

Games take 2+ years to develop. There is nothing wrong with giving devs approximate specs and SDKs 2 years before launching new hardware.
With AMD timetable, 2020 makes more sense when 7nm process has matured and the yields are better (most likely there will be a disabled cpu core because of the yields too). Also, my wallet is more comfortable with a 2020 launch

What changes the equation is that developers are more and more using the default alpha dev kit always available which is called the desktop PC they work at every day . I think next generation games now start on Windows PC’s with developers’ best guesstimates and some tips by console vendors over time... leading into the first official dev kits, etc...

 

[Swizzle]

Agreed. There are still so many games I need to play for the PS4 I'll be completely occupied for the rest of the year...and probably most of the next. I'm in no rush for a new console.

That is fine, Sony has tons of PS4 software to sell you (... and IMHO PS5 will be backwards compatible) while they deliver PS5 to the millions of early adopters you have in the launch window. Both users are supported, both users should be happy (think transition between PS3 and PS4 for example) .

 

[Hotel Security]

(... and IMHO PS5 will be backwards compatible)

Outside of just wanting to be nice, why would Sony do this? We're already seeing gaming publishers all over the place re-releasing PS3 games on the PS4 with very small graphical upgrades that are made on the cheap for easy profits. Why would Sony go out of their way to undercut these potential sales dollars by letting folks play their old games on the PS5? And it would cost some money in R&D and hardware to do it at no additional financial benefit to Sony.

Other than Nintendo, I wouldn't ever expect to see backwards compatibility in any console going forward. And, when you think about it, there really haven't been a lot of backwards compatible consoles in general.

 

[Klik]

I think next generation games now start on Windows PC’s with developers’ best guesstimates and some tips by console vendors over time... leading into the first official dev kits, etc...

Is that the reason why Watchdogs were hard downgraded on ps4,because developers misestimated specs of the new console expecting they would have more powerful cpu/gpu on their disposal?

 

[demigod]

It would be much smarter for Sony to wait sell more ps4 so MS has time to release their next console on time with Sony. The sooner the release the less powerful machine is the simple truth.

I fixed that for you, we know what you really want since you keep pushing for this in this thread.

Sony fans on forums have been pushing PS5 ever since the Scorpio was announced lol.

Out in the real world most gamers aren't desperate for a new console and this gen can survive a good while yet. Plus again, the tech doesn't exist to release a PS5 in 2019, unless it sucks. What would be the point when Sony are still flying and plenty of good games still to come?

No they haven't. Scorpio is not a reason why Sony fans are fearing the xbox one x might take over, lol. The reason why Sony should release it in 2019 or 2020 latest is to not allow MS to pull another 360 and release their next console in 2019(who knows it may happen). They need to continue the momentum and release it soon and not drag out the gen like MS did. And its been said many times already, just because the PS5 comes out does not mean sales of PS4 will stop. If anything Sony can drop the PS4 to $199 and it'll sell like gangbusters meanwhile the hardcore fans will move onto the PS5. By that time they should have a year headstart if they release in 2019 and MS release in 2020.

 

[Lort]

I fixed that for you, we know what you really want since you keep pushing for this in this thread.



No they haven't. Scorpio is not a reason why Sony fans are fearing the xbox one x might take over, lol. The reason why Sony should release it in 2019 or 2020 latest is to not allow MS to pull another 360 and release their next console in 2019(who knows it may happen). They need to continue the momentum and release it soon and not drag out the gen like MS did. And its been said many times already, just because the PS5 comes out does not mean sales of PS4 will stop. If anything Sony can drop the PS4 to $199 and it'll sell like gangbusters meanwhile the hardcore fans will move onto the PS5. By that time they should have a year headstart if they release in 2019 and MS release in 2020.

So your saying Sony should release early to counter Microsoft.. thats probably what they are going to do .. youll get an underpowered base next gen for the next 6 years.. meh. I dont think thats a good strategy. Have 2x the cpu and 2x the gpu and only 50% more ram is simply not a generational leap from the xbox ine x ( and only moderatly bigger ratios compared to the ps4 pro). The xbox one x is arguably a bigger gen leap over the base ps4 than that... and its only a mid gen refresh!

 

[thelastword]

Outside of just wanting to be nice, why would Sony do this? We're already seeing gaming publishers all over the place re-releasing PS3 games on the PS4 with very small graphical upgrades that are made on the cheap for easy profits. Why would Sony go out of their way to undercut these potential sales dollars by letting folks play their old games on the PS5? And it would cost some money in R&D and hardware to do it at no additional financial benefit to Sony.

Other than Nintendo, I wouldn't ever expect to see backwards compatibility in any console going forward. And, when you think about it, there really haven't been a lot of backwards compatible consoles in general.

If MCC was a better product/remaster you think that would deter people from purchasing it because Reach and Halo3 are supported by BC? Last gen, Sony released a Jak remaster, yet they still released another version of the Jak games on PS4. SOTC was remastered on PS3, yet it's still sold truckloads remade/remastered on PS4.....The truth of the matter is this, BC has no hook on any console generation, no matter how much you hear how important BC is.

Yet, let's talk probability......What was the likelihood that a PS4 with a jaguar CPU would do PS3 BC? Very slim, nobody in their right minds should have expected this. However that changes drastically going from PS4 to PS5. If there is one upcoming generation where BC of the prior generation would be highly probable/possible it's PS4 to PS5, it would literally be pie. Even PS3 BC on PS5 would be a very likely scenario......So yes, I think we can expect that we will play our PS4 library on PS5, and it's also highly probable (moreso than this gen), that we will be able to play some of our PS3 games on PS5 too, but even that will take a whole lot more effort than doing PS4 BC on PS5.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Outside of just wanting to be nice, why would Sony do this? We're already seeing gaming publishers all over the place re-releasing PS3 games on the PS4 with very small graphical upgrades that are made on the cheap for easy profits. Why would Sony go out of their way to undercut these potential sales dollars by letting folks play their old games on the PS5? And it would cost some money in R&D and hardware to do it at no additional financial benefit to Sony.

Other than Nintendo, I wouldn't ever expect to see backwards compatibility in any console going forward. And, when you think about it, there really haven't been a lot of backwards compatible consoles in general.

Because now it is possible. Sony got (and still gets) tons of backlash for the lack of BC. Most players aren't tech savvy to understand why there is no BC with Ps3. x86 to x86 is doable, unlike the weird mix the CELL was. The last thing Sony wants is negative press/comments, they had to endure them this gen simply because BC wasn't possible.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

So your saying Sony should release early to counter Microsoft.. thats probably what they are going to do .. youll get an underpowered base next gen for the next 6 years.. meh. I dont think thats a good strategy. Have 2x the cpu and 2x the gpu and only 50% more ram is simply not a generational leap. The xbox one x is arguably a bigger gen leap over the base ps4 than that... and its only a mid gen refresh!

The thing is...... waiting until 2020 gets nothing extra outside of clock increases (see One X versus Pro) from the current official AMD roadmap. Zen 2 design is complete and only Vega 7nm will be ready for inclusion in PS5 (maybe with a few Navi bits). So for me the choice is late 2019 for a Zen 2/Vega(Navi) at ~10-12TF or a higher clock version of the same tech for late 2020 so maybe 14/15TF but even here there might not be the cooling tech so a much bigger box might be needed.

I would love to know the actual cutoff point for HW being largely locked down. 18/24 months before launch?

 

[TheMikado]

Any approximate specs leaked?

 

[Hotel Security]

If MCC was a better product/remaster you think that would deter people from purchasing it because Reach and Halo3 are supported by BC?

Yes, of course. Lots of people sell their old consoles, often in a trade-in while buying the next-gen one. Without the need to buy a new console to play their old games, many would skip a re-release regardless of how neat it is.

If MCC was a better product/remaster you think that would deter people from purchasing it because Reach and Halo3 are supported by BC?

Last gen, Sony released a Jak remaster, yet they still released another version of the Jak games on PS4.[/quote]

Yes, this is because these remasters are very cheap to make and it feels like you only need a very small team to do them (as it shown by how so many of these remasters are loaded with glitches). With so little cost, there's no reason to NOT re-release these games on EVERY console. It's pure profit every time regardless of how low sales get. They'd be passing up free money to not do it. But, they can make MORE free money without BC.

The last thing Sony wants is negative press/comments, they had to endure them this gen simply because BC wasn't possible.

The only "negative press/comments" would be gaming snobs like us on Twitter and message boards. A large bulk of gamers don't ever go back and play old games, period. If they announced it wasn't BC, folks would complain on boards like this for a week and then give up and move on with their lives and all of them will still buy a PS5 anyway. ESPECIALLY since the average fan doesn't have a clue how this tech stuff works and wouldn't care if it was easier for Sony to do or not. You don't incur a bunch of cost and effort just to avoid a few days of folks whining on Twitter when that will likely not hurt sales in the least.

And, again, there just aren't a lot of BC consoles in gaming history...I don't get why folks act like it's some "required" thing that all consoles must have. Why would people be in an uproar over something they almost never get anyway?

Know what else likely annoyed people? The PS4 charging to play online when all previous consoles didn't. Know what didn't hurt sales in the least?...The PS4 charging to play online when all previous consoles didn't. Sony preferred to make money then throw gamers a bone. So, again, why do it for BC?

 

[Codes 208]

Yes, of course. Lots of people sell their old consoles, often in a trade-in while buying the next-gen one. Without the need to buy a new console to play their old games, many would skip a re-release regardless of how neat it is.

Yes, this is because these remasters are very cheap to make and it feels like you only need a very small team to do them (as it shown by how so many of these remasters are loaded with glitches). With so little cost, there's no reason to NOT re-release these games on EVERY console. It's pure profit every time regardless of how low sales get. They'd be passing up free money to not do it. But, they can make MORE free money without BC.



The only "negative press/comments" would be gaming snobs like us on Twitter and message boards. A large bulk of gamers don't ever go back and play old games, period. If they announced it wasn't BC, folks would complain on boards like this for a week and then give up and move on with their lives and all of them will still buy a PS5 anyway. ESPECIALLY since the average fan doesn't have a clue how this tech stuff works and wouldn't care if it was easier for Sony to do or not. You don't incur a bunch of cost and effort just to avoid a few days of folks whining on Twitter when that will likely not hurt sales in the least.

And, again, there just aren't a lot of BC consoles in gaming history...I don't get why folks act like it's some "required" thing that all consoles must have. Why would people be in an uproar over something they almost never get anyway?

Know what else likely annoyed people? The PS4 charging to play online when all previous consoles didn't. Know what didn't hurt sales in the least?...The PS4 charging to play online when all previous consoles didn't. Sony preferred to make money then throw gamers a bone. So, again, why do it for BC?

To the bolded.
1. Thats not entirely true. Plenty of people on my friends list would play 360 games, myself included. Hell, blops 2 was back on the top 10 list beating out blops 3 and Infinite warfare one month last year because it was brought to BC.

2. Also not true. The wii u could play wii games. Wii could play gamecube games. The 3ds can play ds. Ds can play gba. Gba can play gbc and gb. The one can play 360 and xbox. 360 can play xbox. The ps3 (launch model) can play ps2. The ps2 can play ps1. The vita can play digital psp games. A majority of the systems going forward from the ps2 era were BC in some way.

It wouldnt even be a hard thing to translate going form a x86 system to a stronger x86 system and all it would bring is a higher incentive to upgrade from ps4 to a ps5.

 

[thelastword]

I would love to know the actual cutoff point for HW being largely locked down. 18/24 months before launch?

The truth is such a lock is no longer a thing...Even PS4 changed it's ram configuration very late in. This is no longer a time when Ken Kutaragi was given billions for R&D to produce exotic tech....It's a much different time for consoles.

 

[GoldenEye98]

The truth is such a lock is no longer a thing...Even PS4 changed it's ram configuration very late in. This is no longer a time when Ken Kutaragi was given billions for R&D to produce exotic tech....It's a much different time for consoles.

RAM is one thing...but the chip itself will probably have to be locked down 1.5-2 yrs before launch.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I don't want to have 3 consoles on my desk... I keep the Ps3 because i prefer it as a media/DVD/Bluray player compared to the Ps4, but i have no intention to keep the ps4 when the ps5 releases. If it has no BC i'll have to re-think things, maybe get an ugly shelf system to have the consoles *sigh*, but it's unlikely, i'm sure they want to keep selling ps4 games, and they can't keep producing the ps4 forever. I bought quite a few ps3 games after the ps4 released, because they are so often on sales with great discounts.

 

[Hotel Security]

To the bolded.
1. Thats not entirely true. Plenty of people on my friends list would play 360 games, myself included.

With all due respect, I'm not referring to the folks on your friends list. The pattern of most gamers is well documented and the majority rarely goes back to play anything...many will return a game back to the store right after beating it. Most folks aren't die-hard crazy gamers like us who save and categorize everything we play. BC doesn't even effect these people when they've sold all their stuff back.

2. Also not true. The wii u could play wii games. Wii could play gamecube games. The 3ds can play ds. Ds can play gba. Gba can play gbc and gb. The one can play 360 and xbox. 360 can play xbox. The ps3 (launch model) can play ps2. The ps2 can play ps1. The vita can play digital psp games. A majority of the systems going forward from the ps2 era were BC in some way.

For one, I don't pretend that the PS3/360 were truly BC. It was only for select games, many didn't work at all, and those that did often had issues and freezes. And the 360 required you to buy an external hard drive to do it. That's half-assed compatibilty at best. The Xbox One is the same nonsense with "Selected" Xbox games being BC...which isn't close to the same thing.

For two, look at how many consoles on that list are Nintendo...when I first made the statement that we won't see BC again I even put in the caveat of "Outside of Nintendo" since they're a rare exception who sometimes actually does things just to be nice to players rather than always going for a buck. But this discussion was about Sony/MS which is why I said it won't happen. Given that I don't count the PS3/360/One's half-assed BC, we haven't had a true BC console from Sony/MS since the PS2 which was released 18 years ago. It's not happening.

For three, like I said, times have changed and re-releases are all the rage and that wasn't the case for the bulk of those BC consoles. There was no real potential profit lost to allow players to play their older games. Now, with the advent of most games being put up on online stores and re-releases coming out in stores like crazy there is.

If it has no BC i'll have to re-think things, maybe get an ugly shelf system to have the consoles *sigh*, but it's unlikely, i'm sure they want to keep selling ps4 games, and they can't keep producing the ps4 forever. I bought quite a few ps3 games after the ps4 released, because they are so often on sales with great discounts.

I save every console I have and they're all just in boxes in storage and I can dust them off if I want. I still have my PS3 out since there's some games for that I haven't even gotten to yet. I still have my old Intellivision and it still works.

 

[Codes 208]

With all due respect, I'm not referring to the folks on your friends list. The pattern of most gamers is well documented and the majority rarely goes back to play anything...many will return a game back to the store right after beating it. Most folks aren't die-hard crazy gamers like us who save and categorize everything we play. BC doesn't even effect these people when they've sold all their stuff back.



For one, I don't pretend that the PS3/360 were truly BC. It was only for select games, many didn't work at all, and those that did often had issues and freezes. And the 360 required you to buy an external hard drive to do it. That's half-assed compatibilty at best. The Xbox One is the same nonsense with "Selected" Xbox games being BC...which isn't close to the same thing.

For two, look at how many consoles on that list are Nintendo...when I first made the statement that we won't see BC again I even put in the caveat of "Outside of Nintendo" since they're a rare exception who sometimes actually does things just to be nice to players rather than always going for a buck. But this discussion was about Sony/MS which is why I said it won't happen. Given that I don't count the PS3/360/One's half-assed BC, we haven't had a true BC console from Sony/MS since the PS2 which was released 18 years ago. It's not happening.

For three, like I said, times have changed and re-releases are all the rage and that wasn't the case for the bulk of those BC consoles. There was no real potential profit lost to allow players to play their older games. Now, with the advent of most games being put up on online stores and re-releases coming out in stores like crazy there is.



I save every console I have and they're all just in boxes in storage and I can dust them off if I want. I still have my PS3 out since there's some games for that I haven't even gotten to yet. I still have my old Intellivision and it still works.

The 360 required a hdd for backwards compatibility because the system had a very low amount of memory onboard in general. You would need a hdd to play most of anything.

As for other systems the ps3 is the black sheep of sony. It needed a emulator to play ps2 games and the ps4 cant play ps3 because of how complicated CELL was. Theres no reason for sony to switch from x86 next gen. And there is no reason why the ps5 shouldnt be BC

 

[thelastword]

RAM is one thing...but the chip itself will probably have to be locked down 1.5-2 yrs before launch.

Something like Cell had to be locked early, how many cores, how many sub-processors etc.....It was a new type of processor and custom. The x86 processors are already developed and proven, roadmaps are already there and things are progressive. 14nm Zen became 12nm, 7nm Zen 2.0 will become 7nm+ Zen 2.0......So sony can map exactly where the PS5 will fall and will use the best technology at the time.

Using the best technology does not mean Sony will put a 16core 32 thread desktop Zen2 processor in a PS5, they might opt for 12 core 24T cpu non X, lower TDP part..... With the number of consoles they will sell, AMD+Sony can cut a very nice deal there. The tech that will go in consoles will not be 1.5-2 yrs old before launch.....not this time around.

 

[mckmas8808]

Something like Cell had to be locked early, how many cores, how many sub-processors etc.....It was a new type of processor and custom. The x86 processors are already developed and proven, roadmaps are already there and things are progressive. 14nm Zen became 12nm, 7nm Zen 2.0 will become 7nm+ Zen 2.0......So sony can map exactly where the PS5 will fall and will use the best technology at the time.

Using the best technology does not mean Sony will put a 16core 32 thread desktop Zen2 processor in a PS5, they might opt for 12 core 24T cpu non X, lower TDP part..... With the number of consoles they will sell, AMD+Sony can cut a very nice deal there. The tech that will go in consoles will not be 1.5-2 yrs old before launch.....not this time around.

I hope you are right.