luca_29_bg
Member
My head still can't get around on how those games are so insane looking running on a piece of shit outdated measly 1.8 tflops hardware and poop CPU.
Optimizations, and code specifically for a closed box do wonders!
My head still can't get around on how those games are so insane looking running on a piece of shit outdated measly 1.8 tflops hardware and poop CPU.
I could easily Death Stranding winding up a PS5 only game, maybe even a launch title, given the intensity of the graphics.
I wouldn't be surprised to see The Last of Us Part 2 become a cross platform game much like the first.
the FF7 remake isn't coming for years so that'll be a PS5 game.
And no clue about the RE2 remake.
Things I want from Next PS5 -
Full PS4 Native Bc
60 fps mandatory for all games that means good cpu.
12 or 16 gb ram DDR5
Gpu equivalent of 1070 or higher atleast.
Fast OS
Faster hdd for faster loadtimes and better streaming of assets.
Dolby Atmos support
System level HDR and supersampling.
Good cooling solution
Whisper quiet system coz Pro is freaking jet engine.
SSD don't think will be possible without significantly increasing cost of hardware.
That's all I want. Don't want anything fancy which makes system very expensive
We've never seen downgrades after initial reveals. I hope not but we've seen dozens of downgrades in games.
Optimizations, and code specifically for a closed box do wonders!
So how long do you you want them to wait?
Gears 4 looks as good any PS4 exclusives in 4k on X. Gears 4 on X is more than just resolution boost. Everything is improved from assets to frame rate.
Art style is different and less realistic compared to Order but it's right up there with best atleast on PC and X. I have played both and I was far more impressed with Gears 4 on X than Order 1886 which had to resort to black bars to high visual fidelity.
Same goes for Forza Horizon 3 and Halo 5 on X. After checking Halo 5 on X, I was blown away. It's 4k60 on X.
These games are native 4k with 4k assets which no PS exclusive can achieve this gen.
Black bars in the order was used for artistic reason, the game was conceived in that way since the beginning, even the concept artworks created for the game had black bars. Ready to dawn has explained this multiple times.
Again, it's a ps4 game in developing with decima engine, the same engine used in horizon....
Yes and? That does not mean that it still can't be cross gen lol.
Do you need an explanation as to why releasing a new console, 2 years after people just bought your latest console, is stupid?
Yes please explain it to me. Releasing new iPhones, computer hardware, cars, houses, and basically every single other thing you buy works this way, so explain to me why you think game consoles should be the singular special snowflake in this equation?
Yes please explain it to me. Releasing new iPhones, computer hardware, cars, houses, and basically every single other thing you buy works this way, so explain to me why you think game consoles should be the singular special snowflake in this equation?
How is it being an APU mean it’s not off the shelf? AMD already sells off the shelf APUs. How would it have no bearing? What would they gain from trying to force an older arc and a newer arc onto a single die?
No one buys a new car every year, no one buys a new house every year, the only thing people do is a phone and then, only those strange Apple folk do that. If you think the console market is up for a new 400 quid toy every two years then you are living in la la land. And that goes double for the developers.
No one buys a new car every year, no one buys a new house every year, the only thing people do is a phone and then, only those strange Apple folk do that. If you think the console market is up for a new 400 quid toy every two years then you are living in la la land. And that goes double for the developers.
To save arguing, let's say it looks as good, it still took 6tf for MS to come close to a 1.84tf Sony game.
Just imagine what could be done with 10tf+
what excactly is the news here? that's just logical guesswork... why would anybody expect anything else in an amd-based console than zen2 (=rzyen 3xxx) and navi when it's released in late 2019/early2020?
Sony did not expect the masses to jump on PS4 Pro and MS did not have that expectation for Xbox One X either. Those consoles were meant to focus on how to achieve both exact compatibility and improvements of existing software with minimal changes required by developers requiring the minimal amount of changes by the device makers as well (MS pushed harder as they even changed the memory setup... bye bye ESRAM, welcome fat and high clocked GDDR5 bus).
A new generation does not have the same restrictions even if BC is in (think how Xbox 360 did BC or a bit better than that vs how the mid generation updates where fitting in the equation).
I was not sold on the mid generation updates, I expected small upgrades to games and not a lot of time spent by developer on patches for them,... which is what we got. The more frequently you release HW the less it will be taken advantage of properly... it becomes more satisfying and feeding the consumeristic urge of having a new toy (and forcing the ASP of your HW to stay higher).
I buy a new truck every year and a new Jeep Wrangler every other year. I retired at a very young age 18 years ago and there are a ton more people out there then you think that has plenty of disposable income that would throw money at a new console every couple of years.
Could that be a sustainable market? Of course not.
But to make a statement no one buys X every year is a very dumb thing to say.
The majority of Pro owners would hit the roof if a Ps5 came out this year. It matters not if it's BC it wouldn't be FC and that's where the masses would feel the burn if they couldn't play the ps5 games on their pro. And if they could does that mean devs will be making games for PS4, Pro and Ps5. Or are they going to ditch the PS4? I thought the general consensus on incremental model was its baaaad...
The majority, Mr Money bags. You are the absolute tiny minimal demographic like top 1.5%
And your demographic does not make a dent in the majority of Sony's income.
So you are right that's not a sustainable model.
And that's the reality. It's not happening.
Ps I've got more money than I know what to do with too. But it's rather vulgar to mention it, just an FYI.
The majority, Mr Money bags. You are the absolute tiny minimal demographic like top 1.5%
And your demographic does not make a dent in the majority of Sony's income.
So you are right that's not a sustainable model.
And that's the reality. It's not happening.
Ps I've got more money than I know what to do with too. But it's rather vulgar to mention it, just an FYI.
Wait it's rather vulgar to mention it? But you just mentioned that you are also Mr Money Bags? Lol.
Just saying when people make blanket statements about what everybody does and makes up numbers to support an argument that they clearly have no clue what they are saying is pretty weak minded.
To bring him down a peg.
Pretty much. It's funny how some people try to prove something by contradicting themselves over an internet forum.
Anyways, back on topic. What are you looking forward more Sony or MS press conference?
People upgrade when the price is affordable and the value worth while. The reason so few people have upgraded to the mid gen refresh is because the cost to value isnt yet high enough. The next gen of an early ps5 will have the exact same problem.. why would you buy a ps5 when a cheap ps4 plays the same games at 1080p or a ps4 pro at 1440p. The specs we are looking up are enough to play current games at 4k with mild graphical and performace updates. This is not a compelling argument to upgrade ... the end of last gen was a much better step up and there was no mid level option. Generations are dead we now live in an iphone style eara of continual upgrades.
Yeah, what Sony (well, mostly Cerny, but the message has been repeated elsewhere - and I should think he has some clue regarding future Playstation hardware) has said so far is that console generations are alive and well. A new generation means a radical departure from the previous one, which a Pro is not (the GPU is faster, the memory ever slightly so and there's a tiny bit more to work with, also the CPU is clocked a bit higher - but in essence it is a PS4+). Come PS5 I'd at the very least expect a new CPU architecture (Ryzen-based, nothing else makes sense), significantly more/faster RAM, a much better GPU too as well. I think the major factor will be the CPU, it is something that's severely lacking this gen.Sony LITERALLY said the exact opposite about the PS5, so why do you keep pushing this false narrative?
Sony LITERALLY said the exact opposite about the PS5, so why do you keep pushing this false narrative?
I do not think the scenario of PS5 games playing on the PS4 Pro is anything Sony suggested, anything really positive in an of itself (iterative consoles are not my cup of tea and neither what the consoles market needs nor the best scenario for gamers IMHO), or even a remote expectation the majority of PS4 Pro users would reasonably have.
Sony very very clearly said that they did not want to move to a generationless yearly/rapid iterative model, that there would be a proper PS5 that represented a considerably larger leap over base PS4, and that they believed in console generations and what they implied ([for almost all PlayStation consoles] BC is usually an area they do invest in by the way). Without being disingenuous, who could expect PS5 titles to play on PS4 or PS4 Pro (I hope PS5 titles are able to focus on PS5 specs)?
Anyways, announcement in Q1 CY 2018 with release in Q4 CY 2019 (holiday season) just like PS4 launches makes sense and does not feel like pulling the legs of PS4 owners.
Sony LITERALLY said the exact opposite about the PS5, so why do you keep pushing this false narrative?
But perhaps the biggest takeaway I had from the meeting with Mark Cerny was the insight into how Sony views the console generations. PS4 Pro and Project Scorpio have been seen as the beginning of the end of the jump to a new, more capable wave of hardware in favour of intermediate upgrades. What's clear is that Sony isn't buying into this. Cerny cites incompatibility problems, even moving between x86 CPU and AMD GPU architectures. I came away with the impression that PS5 will be a clean break, an actual generational leap as we know it. I do not feel the same about Project Scorpio, where all the indications are that Microsoft attempts to build its own Steam-like library around the Xbox brand, with games moving with you from one console to the next - and eventually, maybe even to the PC.
Not allowing cross-platform play with Xbox is just politics, pure and simple. In the case of something like Minecraft it's partially understandable (requiring a Live account), but mostly it's just the market leader being cocky. Not unlike Microsoft with 360 in the previous gen. EA access - on a personal level, I really don't care for it (I'd only be interested in the BioWare stuff, and as of late, not so much about those either), but sure, I can see it appealing to some.Do you feel protected by no x platform play with xbox but safe deaing with cheaters and the wild west of pc players, do u feel EA access being held off playstaion was “for the players”?
Not allowing cross-platform play with Xbox is just politics, pure and simple. In the case of something like Minecraft it's partially understandable (requiring a Live account), but mostly it's just the market leader being cocky. Not unlike Microsoft with 360 in the previous gen. EA access - on a personal level, I really don't care for it (I'd only be interested in the BioWare stuff, and as of late, not so much about those either), but sure, I can see it appealing to some.
But both of those issues are about software. Regarding hardware, we've not yet seen any indication that Sony would be moving to an iterative model. Pro is in no way a move in that direction; I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's a PS4+ (and nothing wrong with that, it's just not a "giant step for PS-kind"). Like Cerny or not (he's not the greatest speaker/marketeer out there by a large margin), but he obviously knows current and upcoming PS hardware, and I'm willing to give him/Sony the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
Also the above quote/article as cited by THE:MILKMAN .
Well, since you asked for it, here goes (and all this assumes Sony continues with AMD APUs - by all accounts they should, but who knows):What would you like to see from PS5 personally?
Well, since you asked for it, here goes (and all this assumes Sony continues with AMD APUs - by all accounts they should, but who knows):
That's pretty much it, I guess. I don't think any of those is a too tall order. But again, not this year. Late 2019 at the earliest.
- What I don't want to see is for it to try to compete with high-end PCs. That's a lost cause. Consoles essentially should be both accessible and affordable. 400€ at launch is tolerable. 500€ is pushing it. 600€ - thanks, but no thanks. Some concessions likely have to be made compared to PCs to keep the price down, but I think that's both understandable and desirable, given this is a console we're talking about.
- CPU is the major failing of current gen consoles. Pretty much anything else than a Jaguar will be an improvement (and it's very doubtful we'll see Jaguars in the next gen), but I think it's obvious there will be a marked improvement in that department. I'm not looking for single-core performance to rival an i7, but decent multi-core performance. Which Ryzen should bring.
- Another bottleneck is mass storage. While an SSD by default would be great (and do give us an option to upgrade to it if we want), that would hike the price too high. Something like 64GB or 128GB of built-in fast flash to host the OS and act as a cache to the HDD (in effect working like a hybrid drive in default configuration) would be great.
- I think it's obvious more RAM is needed as well. 16GB at the very least, but 24GB or 32GB even, all the better. Given the target price, perhaps 24 would be the reasonable option.
- A better GPU, obviously. But I don't want to go into the TFlops pissing contests - 10+ TFlops is fine, but again, it doesn't need to rival high-end PCs. With regards to graphical fidelity, we're almost there at 4K(-ish) resolutions (8K TVs may come at some point during the next gen, but I'm willing to bet it'll take longer to catch on than 4K) with the current mid-gen refreshes, it's more about the CPU right now. Also, I don't mind checkerboarding/temporal injection/whatnot trickery. It doesn't necessarily need to be native 4K. Just that it runs well and looks good - 60fps is preferable to native 4K, if that's the concession that needs to be made (and one that often cannot be made at the moment, a due to the abysmal CPU).
- I've been playing around with a PSVR that I borrowed from a friend, and while I probably won't get this 1.0 version, I can see the potential. A 2.0 version could be seriously awesome. But the functions of the breakout box (basically, handling positional audio and "unwarping" the image to be shown on the TV) should be built-in. This means that people not interested in VR will pay for the hardware too - but I don't think when the PS5 is released it will increase the price that much. And would be great for those who get PSVR v2.
- And sure, backwards compatibility would be great, at least initially. But I think the value diminishes as the platform matures. I changed from a 360 to a PS4 this gen, and sure, at first there weren't exactly too many games. Had there been BC right from the start on One I might have very much considered it instead. I've still occasionally toyed around with the idea of getting a One S, just because of my 360 backlog/games I could revisit. But my current gen backlog keeps growing constantly too... in the end, I'm not sure it is enough for me to get another console now. Beginning of this generation I probably would have felt otherwise. (and I do understand Sony not supporting PS3 games - Cell was/is such an odd beast, that in order to do BC a PS4 basically should have PS3 hardware as well, which would have driven up the cost considerably)
The way this is sounding is that the PS4 library will not be moving forward with the PS5. I believe that would be a huge mistake and giving MS quite the upper hand moving to the next Xbox. With game libraries being available digitally, gamers will want to keep those games moving forward.I really do think this Digital Foundry article about PS4 Pro contains quite a bit of next-gen info and other nuggets in it e.g:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...tation-4-pro-how-sony-made-a-4k-games-machine
Given that Sony flew out and accommodated Richard at their expense I assume he gave Sony/Mark Cerny the courtesy of reading this piece before publication and would have corrected the above if it was wrong?
Yikes, ok the misunderstanding of the video game console history is staggering.
Traditionally the console hardware cycle has been approximately a 3 year cycle until new more powerful and incompatible hardware releases. You can look at the below to get an idea at the frequency.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_home_video_game_consoles
The fact is going 5-8 years between new hardware iterations is new and risky and traditionally not done. What we have been experiencing for the last 15-20 years is NOT the norm of console development in its history and I’d argue that we are finally beginning to normalize.
Consoles are more computer like than ever and on the flip side computers are more console like than ever. The lines will continue to blur until we essentially have game “services and platforms” running on hardware “boxes”. From a technological standpoint we’ve achieved photorealistic graphics real time, albeit on $60,000 rigs but due to the evolutionary process in the next 10-20 years you will have photo realistic graphics as standard in which case the “power” of a console becomes irrelevant just as the “power” of your cellphone or your cable box. Your system will become a content delivery system and the idea of “power” will be gone.
Of courses you can always use more power but there are diminishing returns where you have to ask what’s the point of rendering an entire photorealistic city in real-time does for your user.
The point is wishing for artificially lengthened generations is delaying the inevitable and giving us WORSE products in the meantime. I don’t understand why you would want a 6 year cycle rather than a three year. If you don’t like spending the money skip the intermediate generation just like the iPhone. We have generational leaps 5,6,7 etc and then we have the intermediate 5s,6s,7s etc. Which accommodates both the late users and early adopters.
I fail to see where having twice the amount of product to sell in half the time period is “stupid”.
Well, since you asked for it, here goes (and all this assumes Sony continues with AMD APUs - by all accounts they should, but who knows):
That's pretty much it, I guess. I don't think any of those is a too tall order. But again, not this year. Late 2019 at the earliest.
- What I don't want to see is for it to try to compete with high-end PCs. That's a lost cause. Consoles essentially should be both accessible and affordable. 400€ at launch is tolerable. 500€ is pushing it. 600€ - thanks, but no thanks. Some concessions likely have to be made compared to PCs to keep the price down, but I think that's both understandable and desirable, given this is a console we're talking about.
- CPU is the major failing of current gen consoles. Pretty much anything else than a Jaguar will be an improvement (and it's very doubtful we'll see Jaguars in the next gen), but I think it's obvious there will be a marked improvement in that department. I'm not looking for single-core performance to rival an i7, but decent multi-core performance. Which Ryzen should bring.
- Another bottleneck is mass storage. While an SSD by default would be great (and do give us an option to upgrade to it if we want), that would hike the price too high. Something like 64GB or 128GB of built-in fast flash to host the OS and act as a cache to the HDD (in effect working like a hybrid drive in default configuration) would be great.
- I think it's obvious more RAM is needed as well. 16GB at the very least, but 24GB or 32GB even, all the better. Given the target price, perhaps 24 would be the reasonable option.
- A better GPU, obviously. But I don't want to go into the TFlops pissing contests - 10+ TFlops is fine, but again, it doesn't need to rival high-end PCs. With regards to graphical fidelity, we're almost there at 4K(-ish) resolutions (8K TVs may come at some point during the next gen, but I'm willing to bet it'll take longer to catch on than 4K) with the current mid-gen refreshes, it's more about the CPU right now. Also, I don't mind checkerboarding/temporal injection/whatnot trickery. It doesn't necessarily need to be native 4K. Just that it runs well and looks good - 60fps is preferable to native 4K, if that's the concession that needs to be made (and one that often cannot be made at the moment, a due to the abysmal CPU).
- I've been playing around with a PSVR that I borrowed from a friend, and while I probably won't get this 1.0 version, I can see the potential. A 2.0 version could be seriously awesome. But the functions of the breakout box (basically, handling positional audio and "unwarping" the image to be shown on the TV) should be built-in. This means that people not interested in VR will pay for the hardware too - but I don't think when the PS5 is released it will increase the price that much. And would be great for those who get PSVR v2.
- And sure, backwards compatibility would be great, at least initially. But I think the value diminishes as the platform matures. I changed from a 360 to a PS4 this gen, and sure, at first there weren't exactly too many games. Had there been BC right from the start on One I might have very much considered it instead. I've still occasionally toyed around with the idea of getting a One S, just because of my 360 backlog/games I could revisit. But my current gen backlog keeps growing constantly too... in the end, I'm not sure it is enough for me to get another console now. Beginning of this generation I probably would have felt otherwise. (and I do understand Sony not supporting PS3 games - Cell was/is such an odd beast, that in order to do BC a PS4 basically should have PS3 hardware as well, which would have driven up the cost considerably)
The time between major improvements in performance is getting larger and larger and you are asking for new products to be released more often...
(... as well as removing the incentive / ability for developers to have ever a fixed spec to target [that allows them to optimise for the hardware more]).