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[BobTheFork]

What a terrible decision to release the PS4 version around the same time THIS game will happen.

It was a terrible decision to launch the game on the same day as Fallout 4. We shouldn't just hang this up as a MS/Sony issue; This isn't a slight on Tomb Raider but they thought the game was going to beat the toughest competition and well, they were wrong.

Is that suppose to make people feel better that want to play Tomb Raider? Some people feel that Tomb Raider is a better game.

A better game than one that isn't even released yet? Comparing it as better than a ps3 game isn't a great comparison either.

 

[Kosma]

2016, psn sale, 20 bucks max, ill be there.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I wish Microsoft creates a studio that makes those kind of action/adventure games instead of throwing money at a problem like they usually do.

That was what Black Tusk was going to be, but they're now a Gears factory.

 

[Hubble]

My guy said SE didn't mind this as the delay meant it avoided UC4's release.

Yeah, let's delay Tomb Raider so we do not compete with Uncharted 4 while we launch on the same day as arguably the biggest game of the year (Fallout 4)..

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Will there be a third game in the series?

Will ROTR actually make it to PS4?

Did heads roll? Is everyone genuinely happy with how the deal went?

 

[SolidSnakex]

It's almost as if they started out with a plan and then halfway through it they shit all over it, lit it on fire, and tossed it out the window.

Because if that was their goal, they probably could have done a better job of promoting the bloody thing. Like a bundle, or any sort of marketing in Europe.

It's just my own speculation based on what Phil and CD said about the deal after it was announced.

Phil

EG - In part is it about having an answer to Uncharted 4? The comparison between the last Tomb Raider and Uncharted has been made.

Phil Spencer: Totally. I'm a big fan of Uncharted and I wish we had an action adventure game of that ilk. We've started some, and we've looked at them. But we don't have one today of that quality. This is an opportunity.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...r-makes-case-for-tomb-raider-exclusivity-deal

CD

Tomb Raider in 2013 was a success due in large part to your continued support. Our goal has always been to deliver something truly special with Rise of the Tomb Raider. Today’s announcement with Microsoft is one step to help us put Tomb Raider on top of action adventure gaming. Our friends at Microsoft have always seen huge potential in Tomb Raider and have believed in our vision since our first unveil with them on their stage at E3 2011. We know they will get behind this game more than any support we have had from them in the past - we believe this will be a step to really forging the Tomb Raider brand as one of the biggest in gaming, with the help, belief and backing of a major partner like Microsoft.

http://tombraider.tumblr.com/post/94529480860/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-update

Doesn't that sound like it's all about U4?

 

[Nightengale]

This isn't a slight on Tomb Raider but they thought the game was going to beat the toughest competition and well, they were wrong.

Yeah, let's delay Tomb Raider so we do not compete with Uncharted 4 while we launch on the same day as arguably the biggest game of the year (Fallout 4)..

The cute thing about this 6 month additional delay rumour is that they apparently don't "mind it" because it puts them further away from Uncharted 4.

Obviously there's a lot more to it than that, but it feels as if they're so blinded by fear of Uncharted 4 that apparently every other option is a better option.

Even if that option is going out against Fallout and going out against next year's fall lineup as a year old game.

 

[Ray Down]

Will there be a third game in the series?

Will ROTR actually make it to PS4?

Did heads roll? Is everyone genuinely happy with how the deal went?

Yes, Yes (but it will probably bomb), don't know, and of course not.

 

[Finaj]

That was what Black Tusk was going to be, but they're now a Gears factory.

To be fair, the majority of Black Tusk wanted to Gears instead of their new IP. It's not like MS forced them.

 

[mreddie]

Will there be a third game in the series?

Will ROTR actually make it to PS4?

Did heads roll? Is everyone genuinely happy with how the deal went?

SE did say the 3rd game is in development. I won't be shocked if ROTR makes it to the PS4 to help sales, SE seems to making it up to Sony with the Hitman/FF stuff.

 

[TheHater]

To be fair, the majority of Black Tusk wanted to Gears instead of their new IP. It's not like MS forced them.

Link?

 

[BobTheFork]

The cute thing about this 6 month additional delay rumour is that they apparently don't "mind it" because it puts them further away from Uncharted 4.

Obviously there's a lot more to it than that, but it feels as if they're so blinded by fear of Uncharted 4 that apparently every other option is a better option.

Even if that option is going out against Fallout and going out against next year's fall lineup as a year old game.

Even if they had given the game a few weeks separation from FO4, it would have been better for them. It feels like a PR idea of wanting to look like the GOTY by going up against a potential GOTY and now their PS4 release is going to go up against a strong line up (even if they don't release near UC4) while trying to revive interest in what will be a year old game.

 

[Nightengale]

Will there be a third game in the series?

Will ROTR actually make it to PS4?

Did heads roll? Is everyone genuinely happy with how the deal went?

1. A trilogy is unofficially confirmed by Square US/EU CEO. Will it 100% happen? Very likely. Tomb Raider have survived low points in the past and it's still a valuble brand.

2. Square already said it will.

3. Heads roll? Who knows. As for how people are feeling about this deal, Square's quarterlies will be next month. We'll hear how they tell investors about the sales performance of ROTR.

 

[ironcreed]

Will there be a third game in the series?

Will ROTR actually make it to PS4?

Did heads roll? Is everyone genuinely happy with how the deal went?

Pretty shitty deal all around for an amazing game that deserved so much better. It did nothing but hurt the game and that is really all that needs to be said.

 

[Finaj]

Link?

I think it was in an interview. I'll try to find it.

 

[black070]

Is that suppose to make people feel better that want to play Tomb Raider? Some people feel that Tomb Raider is a better game.

I have played TR and enjoyed the hell out of it but I wish that this deal had never happened. It is taking away the positive aspects of the game. What a dumb deal. I don't want anything bad to happen to the people involved in making the deal, but someone should be held accountable for making this one.

That remains to be seen.

 

[Garlador]

I wrote a chronology of why this whole deal pissed me off.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=185771957&postcount=2177

Absolutely masterful how badly this deal was from inception to execution.

Like, it should be studied in a classroom as a prime example of how to slam the brakes on a successful reboot and lose any and all momentum and goodwill gained.

It honestly makes me angry, as a fan of the series, to see its potential cut off at the knees in a deal everyone predicted would blow up the moment it was announced.

Ugh. Still shaking my head.

 

[Savitar]

Dear whoever is in charge of promotion. Use a better song in your commercials, the one as it stands is horrible and sounds awful. Calling it a song is being generous.

Sounds like something mumbling.

 

[FATALITY]

To be fair, the majority of Black Tusk wanted to Gears instead of their new IP. It's not like MS forced them.

that doesnt make sense at all

I think it was in an interview. I'll try to find it.

thats bullshit. dont believe in everything you read and see on the internet.

 

[wumster3000]

It was a terrible decision to launch the game on the same day as Fallout 4. We shouldn't just hang this up as a MS/Sony issue; This isn't a slight on Tomb Raider but they thought the game was going to beat the toughest competition and well, they were wrong.




A better game than one that isn't even released yet? Comparing it as better than a ps3 game isn't a great comparison either.

Oh boy, here we go with this. You know exactly what I mean. Looking at UC4 gameplay tells me it's more of the same. I am not about to derail the thread so have at it alone.

 

[RootCause]

So they plan on making the same mistake? Only worse because it will be a year old game going up against 2016 fall line up. are they trying to kill the franchise? They can always do what capcom did with Mega Man.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

What a terrible decision to release the PS4 version around the same time THIS game will happen.

Or they could have not signed any deal with MS and released the PS4 already, several months before UC4

 

[Nightengale]

Even if they had given the game a few weeks separation from FO4, it would have been better for them.

I think the problem is that Halo took the October spot, and MS didn't want two big AAA exclusives in the same month, so ROTR had to be November. And December isn't an option because it's post-Black Friday, where MS is expecting to push bundles.

 

[vpance]

Bad deal no matter how you slice it. Unless that moneyhat was like $300M the brand and whatever momentum they had is severely damaged.

 

[M°°nblade]

Is that suppose to make people feel better that want to play Tomb Raider? Some people feel that Tomb Raider is a better game.

It's hard to feel anything about a game when you can't actually play it.

It was a terrible decision to launch the game on the same day as Fallout 4. We shouldn't just hang this up as a MS/Sony issue; This isn't a slight on Tomb Raider but they thought the game was going to beat the toughest competition and well, they were wrong.

Well, that as well ofcourse.
But to launch around the same time as the most popular game in the same genre everybody is anticipating, and around which you redesigned your own IP formula, is even more terrible.
Uncharted will completely steal Rise of Tombraider's thunder.

 

[BobTheFork]

Oh boy, here we go with this. You know exactly what I mean. Looking at UC4 gameplay tells me it's more of the same. I am not about to derail the thread so have at it alone.

Uh, wasn't trying to offend. Sorry

It's hard to feel anything about a game when you can't actually play it.


Well, that as well ofcourse.
But to launch around the same time as the most popular game in the same genre everybody is anticipating, and around which you redesigned your own IP formula, is even more terrible.
Uncharted will completely steal Rise of Tombraider's thunder.

You are correct and I'm sure the Uncharted delay hosed their idea on the perfect time to release this. New Tomb Raider seems like a great game, so it's kind of sad that they ended up in a position where there was no good time to release it. Is that just a result of the brand not being what it used to. I mean, just in terms of mind-share or whatever. Can they just not expect Tomb Raider to draw attention now when you have Halo, Fallout and Uncharted to deal with?

 

[SmokedMeat]

Sucks that the ones who suffer the most from this botched deal are the actual developers.

Indeed. Seeing Gaffers claim they won't buy the game at all because of SE and Microsoft's handling is a shame. Crystal Dynamics will be the one paying the price.

 

[jayu26]

Oh boy, here we go with this. You know exactly what I mean. Looking at UC4 gameplay tells me it's more of the same. I am not about to derail the thread so have at it alone.

You can stealth the whole sections, you can go from stealth to action back to stealth again in the same section. You can go through entire section without killing (although this is allegedly true). Mate, how is more of the same?

 

[M°°nblade]

Oh boy, here we go with this. You know exactly what I mean. Looking at UC4 gameplay tells me it's more of the same. I am not about to derail the thread so have at it alone.

I don't see how this matters because so was rise of the tombraider to Tomb raider 2013?

 

[black070]

Oh boy, here we go with this. You know exactly what I mean. Looking at UC4 gameplay tells me it's more of the same. I am not about to derail the thread so have at it alone.

I can see where this is going.

 

[Garlador]

I think the problem is that Halo took the October spot, and MS didn't want two big AAA exclusives in the same month, so ROTR had to be November. And December isn't an option because it's post-Black Friday, where MS is expecting to push bundles.

But, even then, Microsoft's "bundle" was laughable. Not only did they push the Fallout 4 bundle harder (a third-party non-timed exclusive), but Tomb Raider's was exclusive to just one retailer and wasn't even offered in Europe, Tomb Raider's largest market? I mean... what the heck?

 

[Darkstorne]

Everyone is over this type of nonsense, which is why there was barely a whimper that Sony had moneyhatted Kojima Production's first game

I wonder if you also believe that Microsoft moneyhatted Sunset Overdrive, or if your flawed logic is also a severe case of double standards?

Oh boy, here we go with this. You know exactly what I mean. Looking at UC4 gameplay tells me it's more of the same. I am not about to derail the thread so have at it alone.

Next gen Uncharted is heavily based on the insanely popular last gen series Uncharted? Who would have thought?

 

[CorrisD]

Well, Microsoft has been trying to "claim" Tomb Raider for Xbox for years now. They paid for two pieces of permanently 360 exclusive story DLC for Underworld. Guardian of Light was a (1 month IIRC) timed XBLA exclusive. The reboot premiered on an Xbox press conference and had timed exclusive DLC. None of this seems to have worked to disassociate the games from PlayStation, but they just keep going at it.

I'm not sure if bish ever saw the post. The concept does make sense. CD are very close to MS. The last game they made for a non-MS console was on the PS2. All of their games last gen were developed for the 360 and ported to other platforms by Nixxes. They've also had exclusive marketing deals and DLC deals since them on MS platforms. So in some ways you could say they've been working up to this.

Crystal has always been very close with Microsoft and Xbox since they took over the franchise from Core. It was pretty sad to watch at the time that a once British born series was being given to an American studio and a once great British studio that had made it great was killed off because of it.

It happened at the right time for Xbox too as they were busy trying to grab up any known PlayStation series to make their own in the hopes the fan base would move over too. They did it with other series too, bought off Ace Combat for instance, which obviously didn't work, didn't sell well, and just killed off the main line series till recently.

Uncharted and TR are very different games. I can understand the environmental similarities between Uncharted: DF and the original TR games, but they've both very much gone in their own directions since then.

Seems silly to have them trying to avoid each other all the time.

I don't think the two series have ever been so close as they are now, Uncharted didn't want to be Tomb Raider, it might have been inspired by the series but it never trying to be a platformer or puzzle game, both of which Tomb Raider was built around. Tomb Raider however drastically changed over the years to the point of making "Tomb Raiding" and side quest and threw any real platforming out the window.

 

[R3TRODYCE]

I hate deals like this tbh even though I own all the consoles.

I think it was in an interview. I'll try to find it.

--> http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1086441

 

[visiblemode]

Yeah, what is the OP trying to say? That Microsoft paid a bunch of money for Rise of the Tomb Raider and then deliberately sunk its sales? Because... ?

Well, I think what he's saying is that because Square was facing the exclusivity backlash and wanted to tell people it was timed, MS made them push back the release as a penalty. The net result was harm to the game/IP, so arguably sabotage.

Sure, I think Square is ultimately responsible. This deal was terrible from the beginning and no one put a gun to their heads.

That said, MS comes away from this with blood on their hands and all for nothing.

All that said, this is one for the history books, now. It's a shame and should be a lesson for the future, but what's done is done.

 

[EGM1966]

At this point my interest has moved to what the actual impact on the franchise will be and what SE will do to try and drive strong demand on PC and PS platforms.

The results of the deal thus far and the disaster of the timing and negative PR is pretty yvisible to all. It's now feeling a little irrelevant to question the why of the deal (they made it and we can see the initial impact on the launch) and I think it's all about how the rest of the release, whether MS continue to support it via bundles/deals on Xbox to try and at least help it improve units sold and so on.

The game is probably never going to hit initial profit targets and I suspect initial sales targets have gone out the window too, but with judicious effort, price cutting and PR I think SE can at least achieve decent overall unit sales and work to salvage the reputation of the IP.

 

[Garlador]

Indeed. Seeing Gaffers claim they won't buy the game at all because of SE and Microsoft's handling is a shame. Crystal Dynamics will be the one paying the price.

I'm not buying it because I don't support these practices, even owning an Xbox One. I can't in good conscience support this because it screws over gamers.

... And by the time it DOES come to PS4, it'll be competing against games like The Last Guardian, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Horizon, and even Square Enix's own Final Fantasy 15.

It's going to be mighty hard to get me to muster enthusiasm for a year-late port against all those new major releases, no matter how good that port is.

... And it still doesn't make PC and PS4 owners any less unhappy that everyone involved conspired, not to give Xbox owners a great game, but to keep a great game away from PC and PS4 players for a long stretch of time.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Oh boy, here we go with this. You know exactly what I mean. Looking at UC4 gameplay tells me it's more of the same. I am not about to derail the thread so have at it alone.

Hmmm, it's time you schedule an appointment and see an optometrist.

 

[Pancake Mix]

What a terrible all round deal. "Yeah sure, you can mention those other versions now but the made up bullshit cost is you'll have to delay them even further!" Just no idea why you keep generating ill-will MS! None at all!

Also can ModBot perhaps cool it on canning actually interesting topics with reckless abandon? OP shouldnt feel the need to preface with 3 paragraphs of paranoid text just to get a pretty solid rumour/news into our eyes.

First off, Microsoft must have paid either the whole budget or a large portion of said budget for Crystal Dynamics and Square Enix. They signed an exclusivity contract that SE wanted changed, and MS had a right to ask for a year if it was going to be announced so soon as per contract negotiations.

Secondly, everyone makes mistakes. I hope this doesn't get locked too though, interesting thread.

2016, psn sale, 20 bucks max, ill be there.

2016 huh? It's nice to want things.

Will ROTR actually make it to PS4?

Guaranteed, none of the insiders have said anything to the contrary either. It'd be leaving money on the table.

 

[Kralamoonard]

Well, I think what he's saying is that because Square was facing the exclusivity backlash and wanted to tell people it was timed, MS made them push back the release as a penalty. The net result was harm to the game/IP, so arguably sabotage.

Sure, I think Square is ultimately responsible. This deal was terrible from the beginning and no one put a gun to their heads.

That said, MS comes away from this with blood on their hands and all for nothing.

All that said, this is one for the history books, now. It's a shame and should be a lesson for the future, but what's done is done.

Ha I appreciate the defence, but basically I clarified on the same page that the 'sabotage' comment was part of another copy and pasted post that I forgot to cut out lol.

I'm referring to this post: http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=189237914&postcount=5432

The person was obviously joking, and he doesn't believe it -he said it himself- so it was more of a tongue in cheek comment, but despite that, valid points were still made regarding how insane some of the decisions were. Of course when I copy and pasted the points he made I initially forgot to cut it out so it didn't mean anything without any context which meant the posters misunderstood what I was talking about

 

[RedAssedApe]

so not about passion at all. they were just afraid of uncharted

 

[M°°nblade]

You are correct and I'm sure the Uncharted delay hosed their idea on the perfect time to release this. New Tomb Raider seems like a great game, so it's kind of sad that they ended up in a position where there was no good time to release it. Is that just a result of the brand not being what it used to. I mean, just in terms of mind-share or whatever. Can they just not expect Tomb Raider to draw attention now when you have Halo, Fallout and Uncharted to deal with?

End 2015 was a good release time

I see no problems with Tom Raiders potential to draw attention as a AAA title. Just with the management that completely failed to realise how this timed exclusivity deal and delay gave an anticipated sequel a very sour taste and lot's of negativity.

 

[J-Spot]

Did heads roll? Is everyone genuinely happy with how the deal went?

Don't know if heads were rolled but this just happened.

 

[Kezen]

First off, Microsoft must have paid either the whole budget or a large portion of said budget for Crystal Dynamics and Square Enix. They signed an exclusivity contract that SE wanted changed, and MS had a right to ask for a year if it was going to be announced so soon as per contract negotiations.

Secondly, everyone makes mistakes. I hope this doesn't get locked too though, interesting thread.



2016 huh? It's nice to want things.



Guaranteed, none of the insiders have said anything to the contrary either. It'd be leaving money on the table.

PC/PS4 versions have already been announced.

 

[Fallout-with-swords]

It's hard to feel anything about a game when you can't actually play it.


Well, that as well ofcourse.
But to launch around the same time as the most popular game in the same genre everybody is anticipating, and around which you redesigned your own IP formula, is even more terrible.
Uncharted will completely steal Rise of Tombraider's thunder.

No way, I 100% think TR launching exclusive on XB1 going head to head with Uncharted 4 would have been a much better strategy then being surrounded on all sides and being over shadowed by Fallout 4.

There would be so much talk about the two games going head to head, a lot of it would ve fueild by console wars but, TR would benefit immensely from the free press. Not to mention TR reviewed super well, Uncharted has a great track record but I wouldn't be surprised if TR ends up with the better metacritic score or just generally more praise.

People like to blame Fallout but Tomb Raider on it's own wouldn't have performed well in November. People can't afford a game a week, honestly, for a lot of people buying Halo in late October means you can't afford to buy TR in November.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Honestly, I'm over ROTR.

Its to the point now where I dont think I'll even pick it up when it hits the PS4.

IF I do, it would need to be a damn good sale. And this from a guy who loved the reboot. Bought it on ps3, then again on PS4.

Same here. Either 50% off or GTFO here. It better not release at full $59.99 price either.

 

[Lemondish]

It's just my own speculation based on what Phil and CD said about the deal after it was announced.

Phil



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...r-makes-case-for-tomb-raider-exclusivity-deal

CD



http://tombraider.tumblr.com/post/94529480860/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-update

Doesn't that sound like it's all about U4?

Seems convincing. SE and CD must be VERY scared of U4 if this is the second time they've delayed their game to avoid it.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

The second contract delay still makes 0 sense if it's true. 6 months from November is May, two months after Uncharted. That's far better than another November timeline. The deal, the second one in particular was just a terrible decision.

 

[leeh]

that doesnt make sense at all
thats bullshit. dont believe in everything you read and see on the internet.

If you knew anything about the studio and who runs it, its obvious that they didn't want to do anything other than Gears. The studio head is Rod Ferguson, the man who invented Gears. On his twitter, once they reclaimed the Gears IP, he stated that he was glad to see Gears on everywhere, feels like home.

Regarding OP, sounds like a ridiculous contract, RoTR has really been handled atrociously with what seems to be no marketing budget.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

No way, I 100% think TR launching exclusive on XB1 going head to head with Uncharted 4 would have been a much better strategy then being surrounded on all sides and being over shadowed by Fallout 4.

There would be so much talk about the two games going head to head, a lot of it would ve fueild by console wars but, TR would benefit immensely from the free press. Not to mention TR reviewed super well, Uncharted has a great track record but I wouldn't be surprised if TR ends up with the better metacritic score or just generally more praise.

People like to blame Fallout but Tomb Raider on it's own wouldn't have performed well in November. People can't afford a game a week, honestly, for a lot of people buying Halo in late October means you can't afford to buy TR in November.

This actually makes a lot of sense and is what I think would have happen, except the bolded part. There is absolutely no shot of that happening. ROTTR meta is lower than the worse UC game (UC1).