Nikodemos
Member
Pretty much. They didn't want another Idi Amin situation.
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Russia is gearing up its support of Assad in Syria with Soldiers and Hardware
- Thread starter Gabriel_Logan
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I don't trust Putin a minute. He's there for geo-political reasons first. But I can't believe the West would be ready to topple another tyrant by force, after the latest 2 catastrophes in Irak and Libya. AGAIN? Putin is right on the money about the latest American moves in middle-east. An absolute shit fest.
Putin is doing the same things americans would do, defendings its interests in Syria, and making himself look good at home. By putting his army there, he gains lots of negociation power for the transition (or not) of Assad.
We may find common ground with Russians on this. ISIS must be stopped, and if the government in place falls, even worse chaos will ensue. If Putin is that motivated, let him go all in, he will be held responsible for all the shit that may ensue, and will only crumble Russia's economy even more.
Putin is doing the same things americans would do, defendings its interests in Syria, and making himself look good at home. By putting his army there, he gains lots of negociation power for the transition (or not) of Assad.
We may find common ground with Russians on this. ISIS must be stopped, and if the government in place falls, even worse chaos will ensue. If Putin is that motivated, let him go all in, he will be held responsible for all the shit that may ensue, and will only crumble Russia's economy even more.
Woody Invincible
Banned
You want innocent people to suffer from Putin's motivations?
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
No shit, lol. Nah, i don't think the US is willing to work with Russia, its an ego thing (As it is the US defense chief has not and will not talk to Russia LINK). If anyone has common sense they can see that once Assad falls Daesh will take over, there is no debate to the contrary. They are stronger than the FSA which in itself is as fucking far removed from "moderates" as they could possibly be at this moment. Syria is crawling with Islamist groups, and their is no saving the country once Assad falls. With all that in mind it starts to blow the mind why the US still insists that Assad has to go, especially when you take into account that the US does not give a single flying fucking shit about human rights, they talk out of their ass for the most part and people scoop the shit up and pretend its a delicacy.
I don't think Russia is willing to go all in into Syria, they might, but that is to be seen. One thing is for certain, they have been patient for long enough. If any US ally was in a civil war and Russia was supplying the "Moderate" rebels with weapons, the United states would have been there day one fucking shit up for those so called rebels and terrorists. Russia didn't, it seemed like they understood that Assad was a complete asshole to say the least and they themselves subscribed to talks of him stepping down, if only on their terms. But since no one but them wanted that, here we are. They have every right to move in and help their ally, and if by them exercising that right ISIS is wiped out then am all for it. They aren't there out of the goodness of their hearts (Who is?) but if the results are a stabilization or end to the bloody conflict then i say let them go right ahead.
Thats rich, and i guess the people suffering right now from "Western" motivations are not innocent right? Only ISIS members are being killed, no innocents whatsoever. Syria and Iraq and the middle east in general is enjoying an unprecedented period of peace because Uncle Sam and its Nato allies brought democracy, yep.
MisterFalcon
Member
Theoretically if Russians base a few squadrons of modern ground attack aircraft at Lataika and use them to bomb ISIS/JAN attacks into dust like the Americans have been doing for the Kurds this would be a great thing. Much better then Assad's remainder of an Air Force dropping barrel bombs on towns as they have no capacity for anything else anymore.
But looking at Chechnya and Ukraine the Russians will just help Assad reduce towns to rubble more quickly.
But looking at Chechnya and Ukraine the Russians will just help Assad reduce towns to rubble more quickly.
No. The current situation breaks my heart. Just being a realist and chose the lesser evil. The Russian army is already there.
And what do YOU want? Engage the Russian army directly? Destroy Assad and his government and watch ISIS take its place?
I think its about time Europe and the US put aside their differences with Russia. Get IS out of Syria, Keep Assad there for a while then put pressure on Iran, which would lead to Assad being hanged in Public at some point, they everything should be done to avoid Syria becoming an Islamic republic.
EricTheCleric
Member
maybe its time for Russia to put aside its differences with Europe and US?
Its Russia that has been vetoing intervention in the UNSC and it is Russia that has been threatening many EU countries
Do you want to see a US/EU veto list? lol
dapperbandit
Banned
Apologies if this was already posted.
Western policy towards Syria stumbles again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34278233
To be honest "they are not fighting" is not the reason I'd expect this policy of arming and training moderates to fail but there it is.
At this point, I think I'd rather have something decisive happen with this conflict than a never ending protracted stalemate where the front lines don't move but the death toll keeps going.
If it takes Putin's involvement to turn the tide so be it.
Western policy towards Syria stumbles again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34278233
To be honest "they are not fighting" is not the reason I'd expect this policy of arming and training moderates to fail but there it is.
At this point, I think I'd rather have something decisive happen with this conflict than a never ending protracted stalemate where the front lines don't move but the death toll keeps going.
If it takes Putin's involvement to turn the tide so be it.
Turkish-qatari supported Nusra killing US trained men, this is embarrassing to say the least.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
For those who haven't been keeping up, Russia's involvement in Syria is escalating at a massively quick pace.
Reports also indicate that atleast 1700 servicemen are on the ground and more (a lot more) are on their way, Also in recent days the Syrian Army has been capturing one town after the other and have been making advances in general, either because of direct Russian involvement in the attack or coordination of said attack or just the new weapons being provided by the Russian federation.
Also for those interested
Stratfor said:
Reports also indicate that atleast 1700 servicemen are on the ground and more (a lot more) are on their way, Also in recent days the Syrian Army has been capturing one town after the other and have been making advances in general, either because of direct Russian involvement in the attack or coordination of said attack or just the new weapons being provided by the Russian federation.
Also for those interested
AcademicSaucer
Member
I wonder what the US thinks about russian marines fighting alongside Hezbollah against ISIS
CadetMahoney
Member
Pretty much, so NOW it's all about people suffering (Russia hasn't even done anything yet), but let's ignore last decade and a half.
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/648969034021642240
"Saudi FM: Assad must go or face 'military option'"
Saudi vs Russia incoming #ww3
"Saudi FM: Assad must go or face 'military option'"
Saudi vs Russia incoming #ww3
well the thing about force and using it against those they say are tyrants, that's kind of the American story. A fetish almost.
ISIS is worse.
Aceofspades
Banned
Not sure how trusty the source really is tbh, I'm Saudi and News didn't mention anything about this. I also realize Saudi vs Russia (with no international intervention) would mean we get wiped out from the face of the earth in a week max, Russia is a superpower after all...
Its likely true but right now its posturing over Assad. France is pushing forward with war crime investigation coincidently announced same day as UN is doing it as well. Its all about push back to Russia's plan for the Middle East. Putin is trying to gamble Military might can save Assad and force an acceptance. The Opposition is doing their posturing now. Eventually some deal will be made
Abinash117
Member
Here's this
http://www.wsj.com/articles/barack-obama-to-hold-meetings-host-terrorism-summit-at-u-n-1443530283 ( copy and paste the title in the search bar)
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/world/russia-buildup-seen-as-fanning-flames-in-syria.html
I agree that if Assad doesn't go than his enemies will attempt him to go. I'm not saying that the best course of action, but something that seems inevitable. Unless all the gulf nations, Jordan, and Turkey stop supporting the rebels they won't stop until he is gone and even of they did rebels possibly have enough weapons from weapon seizes. I never thought the conflict will end peacefully.
RustyNails
Member
Idiots. The lot of them. Why didn't they move sooner? Why wait until after Russia started moving? Sounds like sabre rattling.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/world/russia-buildup-seen-as-fanning-flames-in-syria.html
Tells you all you need to know about Russia's interests in Syria.
MisterFalcon
Member
They are there to ensure the conflict keeps going forever. Assad's air force was reduced to a point where they could not help resist a serious attack on their remaining strongholds and now there is an air force in play that can do that.
Palette Swap
Member
It does. Then again, aren't they just doing that to distract their public from unpopular issues like the war in Yemen, the mismanagement of Mecca or their budget issues? Not to mention that anonymous prince calling for regime change, although I have no idea how much traction these guys have.
Lmao amazing
At this point Syria will have to be split into two different countries (inner Syria for sunnis, coastatal Syria for everyone else) in order to put an end to this conflict. I don't see any other peaceful outcome since it is pretty clear that the two sides of the conflict will downright anhilate the other if they win. We're way past the reconciliation point here, and the interests of outside powers won't make this any better, I fear 
Russia VS Saudi Arabia? Well, time to support Russia, I guess.
Russia VS Saudi Arabia? Well, time to support Russia, I guess.
EricTheCleric
Member
As is Assad?
JordanN
Banned
Russia has nukes. There's no scenario where Saudi would win without being destroyed.
Kenshin001
Member
I'm not averse to Russia sending in troops, there seem to be few good options in this mess, but I get the feeling just as Afghanistan was Russia's Vietnam, Syria will be Russia's Iraq. They are in for a lot of pain.
Yeah, I hate Russia's government as much as the next guy. Actually, that's not true, I hate those kleptocratic territory-conquering democracy-invading assholes more than most, but if they're fighting the Saudi government... Obviously it won't come to that of course, but still
They needed this approval to start air strikes.
Phantast2k
Member
https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/649143288734306305
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Lets build a coalition against ISIS they said.
And I bet Obama is going to fold again.
JordanN
Banned
At this point Syria will have to be split into two different countries (inner Syria for sunnis, coastatal Syria for everyone else) in order to put an end to this conflict. I don't see any other peaceful outcome since it is pretty clear that the two sides of the conflict will downright anhilate the other if they win. We're way past the reconciliation point here, and the interests of outside powers won't make this any better, I fear
Splitting a country will just result in another North Korea/South Korea situation, which to me, sounds worst.
That just gives both countries more time to arm themselves and then go back to killing each other.
MisterFalcon
Member
It would be a very short war, the Saudis are terrible as the Houthis are demonstrating every day when another Saudi unit abandons all their fancy equipment at the first sign of trouble. With some modern anti air missiles the Saudis would be unable to do anything in Yemen and an attempt to intervene in Syria would be very short lived.
I don't think they'll be engaging in war anytime soon, but assuming Russia didn't deploy nukes the Saudi military isn't so bad.
I don't think they'll be engaging in war anytime soon, but assuming Russia didn't deploy nukes the Saudi military isn't so bad.
I think KSA proves you can't simply spend your way to a strong military.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I don't think they'll be engaging in war anytime soon, but assuming Russia didn't deploy nukes the Saudi military isn't so bad.
It's a complete joke of a military. Their officials seem to be particularly awful, since they are not promoted by merits but nepotism. It is also seemingly rife with corruption.
From what we've seen during the Yemeni campaign, they really need to get their shit together.
I'm honestly okay with Saudi Arabia's military not getting its shit together, it'll deter them from military adventurism.
Phantast2k
Member
The KSA could bomb Russians in Syria all day long and they wouldn't even think about retaliating with nukes.
Nuking KSA would not only endanger tipping off nuclear armed states (incl. Israel), but could also end up in nuclear retaliation by Pakistan and even if not, then every predominantly Muslim country in the world be out for their blood: nuking Mecca or making it radioactively poisoned? Please.
Even the Muslims in Russia (some 3 million in Moscow alone) would be out for Russian throats.
Also Russia can't fight a sustained war in Syria. People who say they can don't understand basic logistics.
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Upon Putin understanding the latter depends whether Russia will end up on the Soviet Afghanistan path (a mud slide into disintegration & failure rather than a path, given Russian economy) or just fuck around to distract from their most recent annexations & their war in Ukraine and maybe save Assad in the process.
Nuking KSA would not only endanger tipping off nuclear armed states (incl. Israel), but could also end up in nuclear retaliation by Pakistan and even if not, then every predominantly Muslim country in the world be out for their blood: nuking Mecca or making it radioactively poisoned? Please.
Even the Muslims in Russia (some 3 million in Moscow alone) would be out for Russian throats.
Also Russia can't fight a sustained war in Syria. People who say they can don't understand basic logistics.
/
Upon Putin understanding the latter depends whether Russia will end up on the Soviet Afghanistan path (a mud slide into disintegration & failure rather than a path, given Russian economy) or just fuck around to distract from their most recent annexations & their war in Ukraine and maybe save Assad in the process.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I like an optimist.
JordanN
Banned
The USA had to apologize to China when they accidentally bombed them. Both countries vastly more powerful than SA.
I really doubt Russia would tolerate an entire bombing campaign by another country without some form of massive retaliation. The 2008 Ossetia conflict already showed that.
Edit: Also, if they couldn't threatened with nukes, that would open up other countries to be hostile against Russia because they wouldn't have anything to fear.
Oh, alright. I just assumed with massive spending and presumably a lot of US hardware they would be competent but I know nothing of their military aside from spending figures.
Just send Chechens to occupy Mecca ( ≖‿≖
Dixon's Jet
Banned
Let the refugees remain outside of Syria if they wish to though.
pants
Member
was about to post a new thread when I saw this bumped.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...69f752-6749-11e5-9ef3-fde182507eac_story.html
It'shappening.gif
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...69f752-6749-11e5-9ef3-fde182507eac_story.html
It'shappening.gif
JordanN
Banned
Lol, I'm not surprised then. Does anyone hold power against Putin or can go against him?
SymbiantXenos
Member
Anti isis coalition indeed Russia....
maniac-kun
Member
Well Obama is fool that he rejected to join russia in this. Because they need to keep up the russia is evil thing.
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