Oh please. Russia has no interest in fighting ISIS
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Russia is gearing up its support of Assad in Syria with Soldiers and Hardware
- Thread starter Gabriel_Logan
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Oh please. Russia has no interest in fighting ISIS
SymbiantXenos
Member
50+ dead civilians already via Russian airstrikes. Homs province (not isis held)
Source?
Mostly just hitting the net. ABC News correspondent tweeting about it and footage is online. Homs and Al-Lataminah being bombed. Both within Government territory.
Some disturbing footage out there so heads up
MisterFalcon
Member
https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke has a lot of updates. One thing he points out is the Syrian Air Force has not been seen to fly multiple planes in the same bombing operation for a very long time and this bombing was carried out by multiple planes.
JordanN
Banned
Obama doesn't like Assad. Joining in would make all his comments look ridiculous, since Russia wants to keep him.
Why do you say ISIS is not in Homs when theres loads of reports that they are?
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New.../06/ISIS-seizes-key-Syrian-town-in-Homs-.html
http://muslimvillage.com/2015/08/09/112086/syria-isis-fanatics-target-homs/
Obamas syria policy has been a joke since he didn't do anything when Assad crossed his red line by using chemical weapons.
SymbiantXenos
Member
I assume stop the war UK will be holding a demonstration soon then regarding these airstrikes...
MisterFalcon
Member
You know there is a 40,000 square km province called Homs and a city with the same name ? Some of the province is held by ISIS but the city is not.
maniac-kun
Member
Well maybe they fight the rebels and IS.
Yes I know this. Did you read the post I quoted from SymbiantXenos ? He said ISIS were not in Homs province.
Yeah, I hate Russia's government as much as the next guy. Actually, that's not true, I hate those kleptocratic territory-conquering democracy-invading assholes more than most, but if they're fighting the Saudi government... Obviously it won't come to that of course, but still
So do a lot of people, some of the hate towards Russia i can get behind, but others are just unwarranted. I personally see Russia as the anti hero in many of the decisions that the big boys make, with China almost always siding with Russia. ISIS is a common enemy that should be destroyed.
Let me also just say Russia and the UK are pretty good at dealing with terrorists, though the UK has been fu*king lazy lately with the IRA not posing any more threats to their national security.
Because the a Kingdom of Terrorists and the rest of their GCC allies are busy killing civilians in Syria and in Iraq, while committing war crimes in Yemen with some amazing US & UK support there. Oh and their budget is getting fucked lol.
I can't wait to see you apply the same passion you show for your desire to have the filth Assad overthrown to Saudi Arabia and it's gulf allies ( and a few other Sunni countries) for all war crimes they've committed in Yemen (and for the dead civilians in Iraq over the course of 12 years and soon half a decade in Syria). Oh wait.
Good to see Russia stepping up. Though they are more or less there for their own interest like the other external parties they might/will bomb rebels, which is a great thing since the rebels are just another IS group-alike. Whatever genuine protesters you had the first few days are gone (in fact weren't some of the original protesters even spouting IS dogma?)
The Syrians have been fucked over by everyone. The Iranians, Hezbullah, and now fucking Russia shoring up the butcher and his regime; The Turks only interested in bombing the Kurds; The GCC playing the salafi card; and inaction from the west.
A multinational intervention in the early days would've saved the Syrians. Now we have an unholy mess that every asshole in the world is exploiting. Thanks Obama (and I say it with no sarcasm this time).
I'm not a big fan of our rulers, but if the little general has balls and engages Assad militarily he has my axe. Fuck Putin and his Peter the great complex. Let's see how committed he is to this. Syria is a lot further away than Ukraine, good luck sustaining it without ground transport.
A multinational intervention in the early days would've saved the Syrians. Now we have an unholy mess that every asshole in the world is exploiting. Thanks Obama (and I say it with no sarcasm this time).
I'm not a big fan of our rulers, but if the little general has balls and engages Assad militarily he has my axe. Fuck Putin and his Peter the great complex. Let's see how committed he is to this. Syria is a lot further away than Ukraine, good luck sustaining it without ground transport.
Well they have to fight their geopolitical war somewhere and Syria seems to be the perfect place for all involved. The Syrian people and the whole region loses in the long run.
The wanted it in Iraq [Fail]
Afghanistan [Fail]
Kosovo [Fail]
Libya [Fail]
Egypt [Time will tell]
Yemen [Fail]
Ukraine [Fail]
Georgia [Fail]
Syria [Yet to be decided]
The wanted it in Iraq [Fail]
Afghanistan [Fail]
Kosovo [Fail]
Libya [Fail]
Egypt [Time will tell]
Yemen [Fail]
Ukraine [Fail]
Georgia [Fail]
Syria [Yet to be decided]
SymbiantXenos
Member
I stand corrected. I meant city.
This is another Afghanistan that won't go away - I'm curious to see how long the Russians will play this "game"
so your saying russia bombed homs city? because there are no such reports.
Man wouldn't it have been so cool if one of the world powers had helped the Free Syrian Army at the height of the Arab Spring, before ISIS stepped in, overthrew Assad, and stuck around to help rebuild and establish stability post-war? Would've been pretty rad to help lift a major Middle Eastern country out of the third world, bring democracy to a region that desperately needs it right now, and firmly establish our first actual ally in the Arab world. Would've been neato. I guess our best friend Israel and good old Russia wouldn't have liked that, idk.
Oh well. Ever since ISIS stepped in I think we all lost hope in seeing Syria freed from oppression. My family and some of my most cherished childhood memories are in Damascus, so all I can "hope" for at this point is a return to the status quo.
Fuck Putin, fuck ISIS, fuck Assad, whatever. In the end the only ones actually getting fucked are the Syrian innocents. Like usual.
Oh well. Ever since ISIS stepped in I think we all lost hope in seeing Syria freed from oppression. My family and some of my most cherished childhood memories are in Damascus, so all I can "hope" for at this point is a return to the status quo.
Fuck Putin, fuck ISIS, fuck Assad, whatever. In the end the only ones actually getting fucked are the Syrian innocents. Like usual.
SymbiantXenos
Member
You mean like what happened to Libya?
Wtf that link states homs province, not homs city..... and around we go...
We could only dream.
SymbiantXenos
Member
Why so defensive on what they're doing?
Surely if you'd appose us/nato you'd appise this.
Overwise its just pointless whataboutism.
What happened in Libya after Gaddafi was killed? I haven't kept up. I know they're going through problems but I didn't know the west had stuck around to keep the peace and stabilize things, if that's what you're implying.
As much as it pains me to recognize it, Russia is doing the good thing. The prevention of stablishing yet another islamist regime in the region should be paramount. And make no mistake, that would be the outcome that an Assad defeat would have. And we don't want to give yet another buffer state / ally to Saudi Arabia either, so let Putin do his Putin thing, I say.
That is the thing. Saudi Arabia is far more dangerous when they are officially at peace with you, since they are more apt at terrorism / covert ops than field combat. They have been proven to be shitty at fighting wars, but awesome at ruinning countries from the inside and turning their muslims inhabitants into radical bigots via Madrasas + Islamic political parties. So while I don't think that a SA-Russia war is likely, it will surely be a good way to end SA's nefarious influence in the world. A man can dream.
Assad have been proved to be a murderous dictator, and his opposition has been proven to be a murderous Saudi backed sectarian, bigoted coalition of islamic guerrillas. None of each is likely to forgive the other, and none is interested in building any kind of inclusive, democratic Sirian country where people from the "wrong" sect can exist. It will be either partition, or an unstable country with each half hell bent on supressing and killing the other. I will take the first option gladly.
That is the thing. Saudi Arabia is far more dangerous when they are officially at peace with you, since they are more apt at terrorism / covert ops than field combat. They have been proven to be shitty at fighting wars, but awesome at ruinning countries from the inside and turning their muslims inhabitants into radical bigots via Madrasas + Islamic political parties. So while I don't think that a SA-Russia war is likely, it will surely be a good way to end SA's nefarious influence in the world. A man can dream.
Assad have been proved to be a murderous dictator, and his opposition has been proven to be a murderous Saudi backed sectarian, bigoted coalition of islamic guerrillas. None of each is likely to forgive the other, and none is interested in building any kind of inclusive, democratic Sirian country where people from the "wrong" sect can exist. It will be either partition, or an unstable country with each half hell bent on supressing and killing the other. I will take the first option gladly.
Im just correcting your posted bs about russia bombing civilian areas in syria which you say have no isis presense. How is that whataboutism? Read the thread title and OP. I did not mention us/nato , you did.
It's a mess and ISIS seem to be growing in strength there now.
http://time.com/4003049/isis-sirte-rebellion/
SymbiantXenos
Member
You still didn't answer my question but that doesn't matter.
Fact is they're already bombing on Syria if you believe that or not its upto you.
There'll be plenty more news in the coming ours im sure.
SymbiantXenos
Member
I think its a direct cause from the disaster thats been the middle east and various countries worldwide are all to blame.
You're joking, but I could easily see the Middle East being the catalyst for a Third World War in the not so distant future. America and NATO's stagnancy and close friendship with Israel breeds western hatred from the civilians and leads to terrorist action like ISIS and Al Qaeda. Russia and China love the dictators, so the people are getting fucked from that side of the world too.
More war, more unrest, more attempted terrorism, etc. There's no end in sight and one of these days something is going to tip the scales. It's genuinely scary stuff.
Of course I know Russia are bombing Syria. Your trying to frame it like they are not doing so to attack ISIS. The huge difference is that Russia are doing so legally under international law because ,unlike the US, Russia were invited by the Syrian government to do so.
SymbiantXenos
Member
Russia and international law... yeah lol.
148% of the duma voted for it.
That was a joke
Maybe
Yeah, but russia was there before the us was. There is certainly a history of russian pressence. We armed the iraqis to fight russia off.
Still not sold on this ambiguous ISIS group that has suddenly surged to power. They are an enemy of al queda and dont respect any of the history there, ie destroying holy sites. It is weird to assume it is domestically driven given the above. Especially when u look at recent current events with russia, georgia, ukraine, etc.
Just my thoughts though
What were you just saying about #whataboutism ?
"This ambiguous ISIS group that has suddenly surged to power"? What are you trying to say?
Kenshin001
Member
I doubt very much ISIS, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah and all the other fundamentalist nutjobs would have just stood by on the sidelines and cheered that on. Look at Iraq. Rather than embrace the opportunity provided with the fall of Saddam even the Shiites who had been oppressed started killing American and British soldiers and the country degenerated into a mess.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
The Charlie Rose interview with Putin was at least interesting because he clearly stated his logic. I disagree with him providing support to a government that is killing its own people. But he made a good point in that powers can't destabilize governments and then bail, because it leaves a power vacuum that can be exploited by terrorists.
We should have been more involved a good 2-3 years ago, now I'm not really sure what course of action we have.
We should have been more involved a good 2-3 years ago, now I'm not really sure what course of action we have.
mercenar1e
Member
I'm trying to think of an example of a functioning and successful democratic country after the Arab Spring and I can't come up with any. In Egypt they managed to topple a dictator and replaced him with a radical group (surprise, surprise) so another dictator had to come in and try to restore order. In Libya they toppled a dictator in the early stages of the conflict and now the country is torn with several groups trying to take over.
lets not get started with the brilliant work over in Iraq.
If Israel is strong enough to maintain relative stability and peace within its borders despite bordering a country that wants it literally wiped off the map, I don't see why a democratic Syria couldn't do the same. What makes Israel so special?
Perhaps it's blind faith and pure anecdotal evidence on my part, but the majority of Syrians I've spoken to don't like Assad and were (literally) praying for US aid when the revolution started. The people know what they want, and it isn't radical control. All they need is actual military support to protect themselves from radical Islamists. Not unlike Israel.
To me at least. It seems like they are always identified as someone from not the middle east. Like it is someone from another country fighting for ISIS.
To me they are ambiguous. They fight against iraqis, al queda, destroy monuments. They have no purpose but to destroy.
I asked the question bc i do feel ignorant on the subject.
I mean, yeah, which is why I'm saying early involvement and alliances with an organized revolutionary group (the Free Syrian Army) and aid in establishing a stable government for a few years after the war would go a long way. We can't just topple the dictator and peace the fuck out, fingers crossed the bad guys don't take over in the power vacuum.
Stepping in EARLY and aiding the freedom fighters leads to a new democratic government that's closely allied with us while also changing the perception of the west to the civilians, in a region where that's really, REALLY needed.
They're not particularly ambiguous really. They're just extremist Islamic fanatics, who fight against everyone because they seek to establish an unchallenged Islamic caliphate, and it didn't come out of nowhere, it was formed by AQI (Al-Qaeda in Iraq). They do have a lot of foreign fighters, as their social media push has enabled a very wide reach in their recruitment as well as siphoning off recruits that would otherwise have joined Al Qaeda.
ClosingADoor
Member
What can we do more then air support and weapon supplies that are already happening?
Sending in our own troops (from the EU or US) will definitely not improve anything.
I appreciate you giving me some background info, that helps.
Outside of watching Rambo 3, i havent done much research.
I think it could have helped a lot if we were there to help when the FSA was starting to really establish itself, but it doesn't really matter anymore anyway.
I get why other nations don't want to get involved - few geopolitical motivations and all that. But in another life my parents would have chosen to stay in Syria instead of immigrating to the USA and I'd be living this war myself, like my family is now. I just can't divorce that thought from my interpretation of the events so far. And I continue to be baffled by our alliance with Israel, because I genuinely have no clue what they tangibly offer us as an ally other than making the rest of the Middle East (including innocent civilians) see us as villains.
Just sucks man. Idk. Gonna take a bit of a break from posting in here, I'm getting worked up and don't want to embarrass myself, haha.
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