Asking the real questions.whens knack
PS5 is full BC with PS4 and has more PS2 games than MS has OG XBox games. Can't emulate PS3 because it's technically impossible with like half of its catalog including many of its most popular games.Anyway very disappointed on Sony. Not bringing full bc to ps5 to the loyale playstation fans, but they definitely have time to port ps games to PC.
Gotta give it to ms here with bc, Xbox fan can play all Halo games on Xbox series, but the playstation fan who want to play old GOW games on ps5 can go fuck himself, the new leaders at playstation have no honor or dignity.
Yes, it's what Sony said and what they are doing."Muh only old games will be ported to PC muh"
Can't emulate PS3 because it's technically impossible with like half of its catalog including many of its most popular games.
I think its entirely possible for a PS5 to brute force PS3 emulation, I managed to get Demon’s Souls running on my iMac from late 2013 via RPCS3 (it ran at like 20 fps with horrible dips though, probably because of not having enough CPU overhead). A PS5 with a Zen2 should easily be able to handle it with twice the amount of CPU cores and a much more efficient architecture.Of course it's possible, but because the arquitecture is so weird, especially Cell, it makes it very difficult and expensive.
It's not worth it to go through so much trouble, when companies can just port the PC version for most games and call it a remaster.
If Xbox One could emulate Xbox 360 games then PS5 can emulate PS3 games. The fact that RPCS3 is running smoothly on Zen 2 PCs further proves it, Sony just doesn't wanna do it.I think its entirely possible for a PS5 to brute force PS3 emulation, I managed to get Demon’s Souls running on my iMac from late 2013 via RPCS3 (it ran at like 20 fps with horrible dips though, probably because of not having enough CPU overhead). A PS5 with a Zen2 should easily be able to handle it with twice the amount of CPU cores and a much more efficient architecture.
If there is a will there is a way, but evidently there’s no will from Sonys side. Maybe because they plan on releasing their bigger titles as remakes or something.
It would be impossible to emulate it properly without extra hardware (in fact Sony patented a physical add-on for BC pretty likely do to this, which doesn't mean they will release it commercially), here you have the RPCS3 developer and an Insomniac Sony ICE Team programmer mentioning it:Of course it's possible, but because the arquitecture is so weird, especially Cell, it makes it very difficult and expensive.
It would be impossible without extra hardware
If Xbox One could emulate Xbox 360 games then PS5 can emulate PS3 games. RPCS3 running smoothly on Zen 2 PCs further proves it, Sony just doesn't wanna do it.
It would be impossible without extra hardware (in fact Sony patented a physical add-on for BC pretty likely do to this, which doesn't mean they will release it commercially):
Still doesn't change the fact that you can emulate SPEs with 8C/16T Zen 2 APU. See RPCS3.LOL. Very different things here.
The Xenon CPU is a somewhat traditional CPU.
Basically a triple core PPE, with SMT and VMX128.
The Cell CPU has only one PPE, that is not the real problem.
The issue is the SPEs.
Still doesn't change the fact that you can emulate SPEs with Zen 2 8C/16T. See RPCS3.
Anyway very disappointed on Sony. Not bringing full bc to ps5 to the loyale playstation fans, but they definitely have time to port ps games to PC.
Gotta give it to ms here with bc, Xbox fan can play all Halo games on Xbox series, but the playstation fan who want to play old GOW games on ps5 can go fuck himself, the new leaders at playstation have no honor or dignity.
RPCS3 took years, and many man hours to get to where it's at. But even now, it's far from perfect.
The fact that the RPCS3 was able to get to this point in no way means, emulating Cell is as easy as emulations Xenon.
It just means that the RPCS3 team as put a lot of effort and talent into the project.
That's right. Sony should be able to pull this off on PS5 with all the resources they've got, with even better results than the RPCS3 team delivered.RPCS3 took years, and many man hours to get to where it's at. But even now, it's far from perfect.
The fact that the RPCS3 was able to get to this point in no way means, emulating Cell is as easy as emulations Xenon.
It just means that the RPCS3 team as put a lot of effort and talent into the project.
That's right. Sony should be able to pull this off on PS5 with all the resources they've got, with even better results than the RPCS3 team delivered.
There is no problem on emulating the PPE. In the video the RPCS3 developer says PS5 wouldn't be able to emulate SPUs (+ their related memory management) without adding a related hardware to its motherboard and Rob Wyatt, an Insomniac and ICE Team member programmer adds:LOL. Very different things here.
The Xenon CPU is a somewhat traditional CPU.
Basically a triple core PPE, with SMT and VMX128.
The Cell CPU has only one PPE, that is not the real problem.
The issue is the SPEs.
If you pay attention to the whole video, you will find out that it's possible to emulate the SPEs. Something that rpcs3 has done for several games.
But having dedicated hardware would simplify things a lot. In the case on emulation on PC, there is no way AMD or Intel would add this hardware. Thus, it has to be done in software, the hard way.
But Sony owns the hardware on it's consoles, so they could add hardware to do this, and go the easy way. But this also has costs.
Still doesn't change the fact that you can emulate SPEs with 8C/16T Zen 2 APU. See RPCS3.
There is no problem on emulating the PPE. In the video the RPCS3 developer says PS5 wouldn't be able to emulate SPUs (+ their related memory management) without adding a related hardware to its motherboard and Rob Wyatt, an Insomniac and ICE Team member programmer adds:
"Emulating the PS3 will be tricky. The most dificult thing of all would be the SPUs, to this day -over 15 years later - they are in a class of their own. Sustained sincle core performance on a SPU is still higher than most anything in the market today.
You technically could emulate it but at a way slower, unplayable performance.
The games that are decently playable on current PC hardware are the ones who don't use SPUs or almost don't use them. There is over a third of the PS3 catalog still not properly emulated, not capable of reaching playable performance or getting crashes. And this is using certain Intel tech not available in AMD CPUs to emulate the SPUs, so not possible on PS5 because it doesn't have that tech. The RPCS3 dev and ICE Team programmer mention there it isn't possible to properly emulate PS3 with PS5 hardware.The RPCS3 team already has emulated them in several games.
It's slower than doing in hardware, of course. But it can run well enough on current PC hardware.
The games that are decently playable on current PC hardware are the ones who don't use SPUs or almost don't use them. There is over a third of the PS3 catalog still not properly emulated, not capable of reaching playable performance or getting crashes. And this is using certain Intel tech not available in AMD CPUs to emulate the SPUs, so not possible on PS5 because it doesn't have that tech. The RPCS3 dev and ICE Team programmer mention there it isn't possible to properly emulate PS3 with PS5 hardware.
"Sony we need Bloodborne on PC"
"Oh you wanted Horizon ZD? Here you go"
"No sony, Bloodborne"
"Fine, here's Day Gone"
"Bloodborne"
"Oh, now i get it, you wanted God of War"
"..."
SPUs are included in SPE. The problematic ones are SPUs. And yes, many games don't use them at all or only make a very limited, traditional usage. Only a few games use them intensely on an optimized way to take full advantage of them. Very likely some of these 63% aren't playable due to other issues that over time will be fixed so the % of playable games will increase but most of them will continue as unplayable.Really. 63% of all games released on the PS3 make no use of any of the SPEs?
I mean do you seriously think the people that would buy a PS5 from PC would just buy a couple old games and call it a day?But that doesn't make Sony much money especially not when they buy used discs. Sony makes money with 3rd party games and subscriptions. Why would a pc owner pay for online gaming or play 3rd party games in worse quality? Sony would make more money with Pc day1 releases, because their insane ~100m dollar marketing for their big AAAs would double tap and let them sell millions more on pc than years later without any marketing. I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of time until Sony will do so.
SPUs are included in SPE. The problematic ones are SPUs. And yes, many games don't use them at all or only make a very limited, traditional usage. Only a few games use them intensely on an optimized way to take full advantage of them. Very likely some of these 63% aren't playable due to other issues that over time will be fixed so the % of playable games will increase but most of them will continue as unplayable.
And the trick for decent performance is limited to some Intel CPUs, as of now not available for AMD CPUs.
Yes, most pc owners only get the games they can't play on pc.I mean do you seriously think the people that would buy a PS5 from PC would just buy a couple old games and call it a day?
Why, if they can get them cheaper, in better quality, without online costs, with mod support and with better control options on pc?No it would obviously snowball into more and more games bought just for being in the ecosystem.
Self quote: "Why would a pc owner pay for online gaming or play 3rd party games in worse quality", but there are also several Sony exclusives with online components.Most games PS are known for arent even multiplayer so that was a random point.
I don't make up arguments, I quoted the RCPS3 dev and ICE Team programmer several times (won't repeat it again, if you don't read it's your issue) and posted the video where they explain it what I'm saying (the quotes are from there).You do realize that now only RCPS3 emulates SPUs, but that users can define how many threads can be assigned for SPUs and SPURs.
And RCPS3 is already emulating games that do use SPUs. Stop trying to make up arguments.
I don't make up arguments, I quoted the RCPS3 dev and ICE Team programmer several times (won't repeat it again, if you don't read it's your issue) and posted the video where they explain it what I'm saying (the quotes are from there).
The video explains why some games are properly emulated on PC, why others are only properly emulated on some Intel CPUs, why others aren't playable in RCPS3 and why current PS5 hardware won't be able to properly emulate SPUs unless they add extra hardware to its motherboard in a future reviion and put a lot of work into it.
I meant I just warned you via Discord to keep an eye on Bryank since I knew you guys were in the same channelNah, I coped with it. If Sony's happy with it and it helps them fork up some extra money for even better games then I'm cool with it.
Imagined PC exclusivesNotice a lot of PC exclusives the last couple of weeks are getting their console release dates and you know why their are no threads? We dont care. Fucking get over it Nancy, its just games.
Is there a statistic on that? Online pays for itself on playstation as ps plus gives u a bunch of games in a years time.as well. U aren’t just paying for online with ps plusYes, most pc owners only get the games they can't play on pc.
Why, if they can get them cheaper, in better quality, without online costs, with mod support and with better control options on pc?
Self quote: "Why would a pc owner pay for online gaming or play 3rd party games in worse quality", but there are also several Sony exclusives with online components.
Guess what stage you are in?Notice a lot of PC exclusives the last couple of weeks are getting their console release dates and you know why their are no threads? We dont care. Fucking get over it Nancy, its just games.
On Sackboy coming to PC, cool, but where the hell is Dreams?
I meant I just warned you via Discord to keep an eye on Bryank since I knew you guys were in the same channel
No, the RCPS3 dev says that to emulate them properly in PS5 Sony would need to add SPU hardware to its motherboard, the ICE Team+Insomniac dev says the SPUs sustained single core performance is higher than most anything in the market, and there are half a dozen of them. And this isn't the only problem, their related memory management and synchronization is a pain in the ass too for other reaons (like having less registers than PS3 etc).You are misinterpreting the devs.
From emulating SPUs is slow and difficult, to it's impossible and 63% of PS3 games don't use SPUs.
Funny because i've been addicted to Beamng lately, one of these imagined PC only games.Imagined PC exclusives
Learn to read, I explained it too much times and won't repead it again. The 'extra hardware' bit is for PS5 and is a sentence from the RPCS3 dev.dude... you can play MGS4 on a PC with similar specs to the PS5 at better than original PS3 framerates and resolution upped to 1080p+... what are you talking about?
63% of all PS3 games are playable on RPCS3 already
Nobody wants that ported and you still squeezed a few tears.Funny because i've been addicted to Beamng lately, one of these imagined PC only games.
Would i cry in forums if it got ported to consoles?
No, because thats dumb