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[hiljay]

You people already with a Wii should seriously sell yours off

see i would DEFINITELY do this...but i've put some hard cash on VC games...and unfortunately, i don't want to part with those...

 

[Gigglepoo]

Are you implying that Microsoft would have done it had the Wii not existed?

No clue, but a giant game buzzer is hardly equivalent to motion controlled game. Even an extremely ignorant person should know the difference.

If people were willing to pay 2x MSRP for cynicism, you'd be a rich man.

It's a shame I don't charge money for my cynicism... yet.

and I heard an NPR show about "graphic literature" but it doesn't stop most people I know from asking me why the fuck I read comics. :lol

One NPR show versus mainstream magazine covers for a year?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Nintendo is a company run by people. People inherently make mistakes. Nintendo has made mistakes of their own.

I don't care about these console wars really, since almost all games give me motion sickness. But the thought that one company is superior and perfect is very weak.

Why are you pushing that Deacon? You're smarter than that.

What the hell are you talking about? All 3 are profit driven companies. I was making light of the fact that people think that they do things in their best interests or for some unseen "standard" instead of driving profit, which is the ultimate goal of any corporation.

Way to take it out into left field Crush.

 

[Vieo]

I went to a new Toys'R'Us in my town last night and saw 7 Wiis sitting there in the display counter. I walked around for 15 minutes, came back to check, and there were only 2 left in the display counter with 3 people in line buying Wiis. I ended up purchasing the last console on a whim, and as I was in line another guy came around asking for a Wii.. It was absolutely insane.

The question now.. should I eBay it ASAP, or wait a couple weeks? It would make a great gift, but none of my friends or family really play videogames.

I'd eBay it now. Some people (including last week's 1up podcast crew) are predicting Nintendo is going to unleash stored cache of Wiis.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

No clue, but a giant game buzzer is hardly equivalent to motion controlled game. Even an extremely ignorant person should know the difference.

I was actually more pointing to Microsoft reaching out to casuals, not necessarily with motion control but an easily accessible controller.

 

[madara]

Christ I must have had the chance to buy at least three wii systems in the last two weeks. All that money, sigh. Well at very least I not ripping folks peddling wares I guess.

 

[Firewire]

I went to a new Toys'R'Us in my town last night and saw 7 Wiis sitting there in the display counter. I walked around for 15 minutes, came back to check, and there were only 2 left in the display counter with 3 people in line buying Wiis. I ended up purchasing the last console on a whim, and as I was in line another guy came around asking for a Wii.. It was absolutely insane.

The question now.. should I eBay it ASAP, or wait a couple weeks? It would make a great gift, but none of my friends or family really play videogames.

Personally if I were you, I'd be a good person and donate it to an orphanage for x-mass. You can make allot of under privileged kids happy! And surely one day Mario will let you into heaven! :lol

 

[CrushDance]

What the hell are you talking about? All 3 are profit driven companies. I was making light of the fact that people think that they do things in their best interests or for some unseen "standard" instead of driving profit, which is the ultimate goal of any corporation.

Way to take it out into left field Crush.

Well that's not how I interpreted it, any way. Sorry if i got you wrong.

 

[Lostconfused]

Wait, so i can sell my used Wii and have enough to get a ps3? What an interesting proposition.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I was actually more pointing to Microsoft reaching out to casuals, not necessarily with motion control but an easily accessible controller.

Oh...

Well, Microsoft has been trying to target the casual sect for years. That's what XBLA is. That's why they bought Rare. MS just isn't particularly good at stealing Nintendo's crowd.

 

[Mamesj]

One NPR show versus mainstream magazine covers for a year?

I didn't think you would take it as a 1:1 comparison, but fine, then how about the coverage Sin City, 300, Spider Man, X Men, Fantastic Four etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. have been getting for their respective movies and the related articles about the comics they came from? There have been a lot more "comics aren't just for kids anymore" stories than there have been stories about the Wii.

 

[TheRipDizz]

He's saying that neither Microsoft nor Sony would lower themselves to such depths for something so measly as profit. They exist solely to appease the hardcore gamers of the world with products that may not be profitable, but gain them respoect amongst the internet gaming populace.

Respekt knuckles.



Are you implying that Microsoft would have done it had the Wii not existed? Because i'd bet a large sum of money that that's why this bundle exists.

Sony at least has the precedent of doing things like this before the Wii ever existed, considering it was a system intended for everybody and not just the super hardcore.

They wouldn't make profit on it though since they would be fighting for Wii Sport's table scraps. So they actually have two incentives not to copy. Too much risk of failure and, of course, not lowering themselves down, preserving their right to still preform the sacred gesture of respect knuckles. And everything is right in the world.

 

[Gigglepoo]

There have been a lot more "comics aren't just for kids anymore" stories than there have been stories about the Wii.

I guess I haven't noticed those stories. Maybe I only notice the Wii stories because I love games. I have no interest in comics so my eyes may glaze over those nuggets. What I read and heard about Spiderman, 300, V, etc was about the movies, though, and not their source materials. I'm not saying that comic stories weren't out there en masse, I just never encountered them.

Still, if my stint working at Barnes and Noble is any indication, graphic novels are more popular than comic books were when I was growing up.

 

[itxaka]

it´s a shame mine is PAL

I want to sell it but for the price i got it from, maybe i´ll sell it at uk so i can recover my money and get a PS3 now that they are cheap

 

[reilo]

I love the assumption that if consumers prefer the Wii to the PS3, it must be because they're idiots.

When they are paying $500+ for the Wii? Yes. I'd call them idiots.

 

[dude]

As great as the Wii is (and I do enjoy my Wii), it is selling because popularity is a rolling snowball.

Anecdote time: Where I live (Israel) no one really heard of the Wii, since we don't have any official Nintendo presence, only private importers. I work part time at a toy store and we have a Wii demo hooked up with Wii Sports, We're selling them like mad ever since we hooked the Wii up. We had the PS3 (Note: in in Israel, Sony is synonymous with video games, much like Nintendo in the old days) hooked up before, usually with Resistance or MotorStorm, most people didn't even look at it, when a kid would pick it up he'd usually put it down pretty soon after (Which worked great for me, I finished both games during work) - now we're fighting with costumers to let go of the Wii.
I don't own either console, but I just wanted to point out that even where the Wii is not very well known it sells well because of it's charm. I don't doubt the power of popularity, but I think you're sticking too mush to this point.

 

[Quazar]

Been looking to sell mine for last few months figured I'd wait until about now. Should I sell it now or wait couple more weeks?

 

[Gigglepoo]

I don't doubt the power of popularity, but I think you're sticking too mush to this point.

I could be wrong. It's obviously just a theory. Clearly, the Wii is selling primarily because it is fun. But the sudden rise to $600 coupled with the lemming nature of humans makes me think there is more to this burst of desire than an unholy love of virtual tennis.

 

[Vieo]

see i would DEFINITELY do this...but i've put some hard cash on VC games...and unfortunately, i don't want to part with those...

Are VC games linked to your account or to the Wii hardware itself? I've seen the system settings the option to unlink your account from the Wii. So what if you unlink your account from your Wii and then later link your account to a new Wii. Would you have to rebuy those VC games, or can you just download them?

 

[Mamesj]

Are VC games linked to your account or to the Wii hardware itself? I've seen the system settings the option to unlink your account from the Wii. So what if you unlink your account from your Wii and then later link your account to a new Wii. Would you have to rebuy those VC games, or can you just download them?

Unless they've changed something, you lose the games in all cases, unless the system is being repaired by Nintendo. I sold a system a few months after launch then rebought the system--I tried begging and pleading, using every logical route to get me my games back (like "look at my My Nintendo account") and they wouldn't budge.

 

[prelude514]

Fucking Canadians. First Rock Band, now this. We need some stricter laws/enforcement against this kind of BULLSHIT. Drives up prices for people here for whom the consoles are intended. Total garbage.

Hey jackass, you think Americans weren't doing similar things when American money was worth more than Canadian money? How about our cheap medication? I bet some old man couldn't get his heart medication because some fat 30 year old Americans came to buy them here instead of paying full price in the US. Keep living in your little secluded word over there.


Now, back on topic. I can't get over the fact that there's still price gouging a full year later! Nintendo should really do something, this isn't fair to those who actually want a Wii.

 

[Grecco]

When they are paying $500+ for the Wii? Yes. I'd call them idiots.

Did you call the people who payed 1k for PS2s, or 800 bucks for X360s idiots too?

 

[Gigglepoo]

Now, back on topic. I can't get over the fact that there's still price gouging a full year later! Nintendo should really do something, this isn't fair to those who actually want a Wii.

Agreed. They need to either raise the MSRP or produce enough systems to meet demand. Since the latter seems impossible...

Did you call the people who payed 1k for PS2s, or 800 bucks for X360s idiots too?

People paid $800 for an X360!? Money can't buy intelligence, that's for sure.

 

[AstroLad]

Agreed. They need to either raise the MSRP or produce enough systems to meet demand. Since the latter seems impossible...

Or c) stop irresponsibly hyping up their own system to already crazed parents during holiday time (see: Reggie).

 

[Gigglepoo]

Or c) stop irresponsibly hyping up their own system to already crazed parents during holiday time (see: Reggie).

They should hype it even more! Why not? Future success isn't guaranteed, but right now the Wii is hot. Ride this milk train all the way to the barnyard!

 

[CTLance]

Oh my goodness would you look at the first two(/4) pages of this thread. :lol

Really, do we have to rediscover the crucial difference between value and price in every single thread? It's like we're spinning in place...

 

[AstroLad]

They should hype it even more! Why not? Future success isn't guaranteed, but right now the Wii is hot. Ride this milk train all the way to the barnyard!

Well free speech is one thing, but isn't there some law against "shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater" b/c that's basically what Nintendo is doing at this point.

 

[Miniboss1232]

Now, back on topic. I can't get over the fact that there's still price gouging a full year later! Nintendo should really do something, this isn't fair to those who actually want a Wii.

You're right. Nintendo should increase production or something.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

You people already with a Wii should seriously sell yours off. You've already had fun with SMG, I'm sure a month without the lil' guy wouldn't hurt you. You would make at least double the amount you spent on the thing. Its a no brainer.

Thats a cool $250 pocket change, nearly enough to get you a 360 :>

But how would I play Excite Truck every night?

Spoiler

And what would I do with nearly a 360?

 

[Flo_Evans]

damn. If I see any wiis I will buy them.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

You judged a consoles entire lifespan in under 30 days? Wow im impressed.

No, I got giddy because I was the first in line last year, black friday. I don't nor didn't have an HDTV (nor intended to buy one), no blu ray movies, didn't want a Resistance:Fall of Man box, nor did I want to pay $600 for any console. And there I was, with a Wii in my hands and a horde behind me and this crazy idea that I really wanted one.

Some discount the emotion of buying a console based on low supply and high demand but that's exactly what drove me to buy the PS3 last year. I was 1st in line, knew they only had 2 and there were 40+ people behind me so I bought one. Not to screw people over but there was some rationale in my head about how I would love the PS3. Then reality hit like a $600 brick.

 

[prelude514]

Agreed. They need to either raise the MSRP or produce enough systems to meet demand. Since the latter seems impossible...



People paid $800 for an X360!? Money can't buy intelligence, that's for sure.

Unfortunately, it only seems impossible. Foxcon has plenty of manufacturing ability left, from what I've heard. In my opinion, it's Nintendo who's controlling this shortage. Right now, as it stands, they're selling a shitload of consoles, let's say 500k a month. Right now they can say "look guys, we're selling half a million a month, and we can't make more!" When in reality they probably could. Let's say they doubled production to 1 million a month. Say they sell 750,000 of those that month. That still leaves enough for people to see that they aren't sold out, so there's no rush for the consumer to buy. It's sad, but most people want what they can't have, even if they don't really want it or need it. I think that's a big part of Wii's success.

 

[MrOctober]

The best are the Ebay offers where they advertise that it comes with 17 games but they count Wii Sports as 5 games and Wii Play as 9 :lol :lol

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Holy shit is it really going for that much?

I might wait a little more until I clear mario and sell mine. Been wanting to get a japanese one instead anyway.

 

[Christine]

People paid $800 for an X360!? Money can't buy intelligence, that's for sure.

The value of a dollar is inversely proportional to how many of them you have to spend, especially when considered in relation to your own time. There are people for whom spending a premium to acquire a supply-limited item is completely rational and intelligent, and they are not coincidentally the people most able to afford such premiums.

 

[Gigglepoo]

The value of a dollar is inversely proportional to how many of them you have to spend, especially when considered in relation to your own time. There are people for whom spending a premium to acquire a supply-limited item is completely rational and intelligent, and they are not coincidentally the people most able to afford such premiums.

If they continue to spend drastically more than market value for whatever tickles their fancy, they will soon find they are without money or intelligence.

 

[Mamesj]

People paid $800 for an X360!? Money can't buy intelligence, that's for sure.

ha! People were paying $1000 for a 360. Wanna know what's even worse? People were paying $2000-3000 for PS3s.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

I was actually more pointing to Microsoft reaching out to casuals, not necessarily with motion control but an easily accessible controller.

Which is a big smack in the face of that old gif that would make fun of the GCN where they just put a big win button in the middle and would be done with it. Not to say it's the same but a few years ago, no one would have guessed MS would be moving in that direction. How the fuck is that Scene it controller supposed to make me feel?

 

[Christine]

If they continue to spend drastically more than market value for whatever tickles their fancy, they will soon find they are without money or intelligence.

You don't know that, because you lack the crucial piece of information necessary to judge their purchase - their income. When judged as a percentage of income, your expenditure of $350 might be more irresponsible than their expenditure of $800.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Anecdote time: Where I live (Israel) no one really heard of the Wii, since we don't have any official Nintendo presence, only private importers. I work part time at a toy store and we have a Wii demo hooked up with Wii Sports, We're selling them like mad ever since we hooked the Wii up. We had the PS3 (Note: in in Israel, Sony is synonymous with video games, much like Nintendo in the old days) hooked up before, usually with Resistance or MotorStorm, most people didn't even look at it, when a kid would pick it up he'd usually put it down pretty soon after (Which worked great for me, I finished both games during work) - now we're fighting with costumers to let go of the Wii.
I don't own either console, but I just wanted to point out that even where the Wii is not very well known it sells well because of it's charm. I don't doubt the power of popularity, but I think you're sticking too mush to this point.

Once people take off the googles, waggle has some inherent attraction better than pushing a button and when refined, will elevate gameplay. Just how do you refine it though?

 

[CTLance]

Unfortunately, it only seems impossible. Foxcon has plenty of manufacturing ability left, from what I've heard. In my opinion, it's Nintendo who's controlling this shortage. Right now, as it stands, they're selling a shitload of consoles, let's say 500k a month. Right now they can say "look guys, we're selling half a million a month, and we can't make more!" When in reality they probably could. Let's say they doubled production to 1 million a month. Say they sell 750,000 of those that month. That still leaves enough for people to see that they aren't sold out, so there's no rush for the consumer to buy. It's sad, but most people want what they can't have, even if they don't really want it or need it. I think that's a big part of Wii's success.

This discussion is so freaking old, let's just copypasta some old answer.

Since the topic of "are the Wii shortages artificial" and "why doesn't Nintendo do more" pops up all the time, I figured it'd be good to explain the complexities involved in ramping up quantities so that we don't need to have the same discussion again and again.

Optimizing ROI

The key point to understand is that you can't just magically increase production quantities, it takes a really long time and lots of investment to ramp up additional production lines. This is because production lines are very much designed to run all the time at the outset - night and day - you don't build in too much slack for a specialized plant such as one doing the Wii. If you do, you'll end up buying more machinery and renting more plants than you need, which means that the ROI (return on investment) for the machinery will be lower, and as a result, your operating margin and profit will be lower. And as we know, Nintendo loves them profits. So we might fairly assume they've not left slack in their process but designed their line to run at near full capacity at the outset.


Getting a plant for a new line

So what happens when you need more? You need a new line. When you start producing something on a new line with, say, Hon Hai / Foxconn like I believe Nintendo is, you need to agree with them a plant for the production. As they don't just have empty plants waiting to be put into work, you'll probably need to wait for that RAZR demand death spiral to go a little lower.

Once you've got the plant, you need to design the production flow and floor layouts that will allow you to produce your product - first emptying it of course. You need to think of space limitations, order of assembly, places where parts need to dry (like gloss finish with multiple layers of paint) or where buffer is built up. You have a generic flow for your product yet different shapes of production facilities.


Ordering tooling

Having the flow and layout, you need to order the machinery related to build a console. Anything from painting lines with multiple spray points (for gloss finish) to grinding machines to create the molds. Although chances are you can reuse a lot of the equipment used to produce the previous product in the plant, there will be new, custom parts.


Optimizing yields

When you've got all the machinery in the plant, you need to start to test the production runs and optimize the line. Not fantastic stuff will come out initially and this phase is critical for your yields. If you don't optimize this phase, you'll see a lot of returns of your product.

This was just the assembly and plastic part, not even going for the subassemblies inside the device, or other parts like the engine or wireless boards, Depending on how much cheap-ass off the shelf components you use (and I assume Nintendo does quite a bit), you'll need to do a similar ramp up in their production lines.


Bottomline

This whole process is a huge amount of work, which is why production planning for new products is typically started nearly simultaneously as the product development itself, for anywhere from half an year to two years before product rolls out, depending on the uniqueness and complexity of the product. Often the critical part of the product is the manufacturability.

As you might imagine, ramping up additional facilities is also a very high financial investment and risk, so if you were to think, just hypothetically, that your product has the risk of being a fad, you would probably wait longer until you initiate the process. As we know, Nintendo is very risk averse, so they probably have waited a lot longer.

I hope this explains the situation going on with Wii.



Also, you can reverse this thinking to understand why Sony is making such a loss. If you look at their annual report, you see that they didn't produce any PSPs last quarter of 2006. Still, the production equipment didn't magically go away.

Seeing no PSPs were needed, Sony had two choices

1. Dismantle the PSP production line from Foxconn for the quarter to wait for being reconstructed once inventories were emptied

2. Have empty production line sitting in the factory idle, with lights off, which would mean that Sony was paying for nothing - they'd still be paying the rent for the house.

Both cases means that the ROI of the equipment is really bad, as it's not bringing any profit back. And that there are additional costs like storing the equipment or the rent.

Now, with a similar situation with PS3, the problem is at least 10x worse. PS3 production and the SDN (supply demand network) is much more complex and the machinery unbelievably more expensive.

At the moment Sony won't need to produce another PS3 console at least for a quarter or two, so they are currently thinking of the two options for their PS3 factories. This will offset much off the PS2 profits and why the talk of "production costs of PS3 going down helps Sony's profitability" are largely false - the production cost of PS3 is actually going UP because the fixed cost per console is higher because their production line utilization is lower.

 

[Gigglepoo]

You don't know that, because you lack the crucial piece of information necessary to judge their purchase - their income. When judged as a percentage of income, your expenditure of $350 might be more irresponsible than their expenditure of $800.

If they continue to spend drastically more than market value for whatever tickles their fancy, they will soon find they are without money or intelligence.

...

Ok, I'm done. I've made my point that people can't be trusted with their own money. Debt! Catch it, it's contagious!

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Unfortunately, it only seems impossible. Foxcon has plenty of manufacturing ability left, from what I've heard. In my opinion, it's Nintendo who's controlling this shortage. Right now, as it stands, they're selling a shitload of consoles, let's say 500k a month. Right now they can say "look guys, we're selling half a million a month, and we can't make more!" When in reality they probably could. Let's say they doubled production to 1 million a month. Say they sell 750,000 of those that month. That still leaves enough for people to see that they aren't sold out, so there's no rush for the consumer to buy. It's sad, but most people want what they can't have, even if they don't really want it or need it. I think that's a big part of Wii's success.

Wow, I didn't know they still made posters like you.

 

[TekunoRobby]

Fuck

And I was just at a Best Buy the other week buying a Wii for my fiancée's niece and nephew. They had 10+ I could've picked up.

 

[noire]

"I don't really know what a Wii is, beyond its generic description. I just know that my wife wants my son to have one, and that by getting one, I avert grave, holiday disappointment, and even danger."

 

[Christine]

If they continue to spend drastically more than market value for whatever tickles their fancy, they will soon find they are without money or intelligence.

...

Ok, I'm done. I've made my point that people can't be trusted with their own money. Debt! Catch it, it's contagious!

Again, you can't make the prediction that they will run out of money unless you know their level of income relative to the expenditure. There are plenty of people who can and do pay large premiums on everything they buy while still leaving money to their kids.

Debt is caused by expenditures exceeding income. Knowing that an expenditure is larger than the minimum tells us nothing without the associated income by which we can measure it.

 

[Roders5]

Paying these ebay prices is obviously stupid but what I find amusing is that it doesn't even come close to the stupidity in this very thread.

 

[tak]

I don't know what to say.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Paying these ebay prices is obviously stupid but what I find amusing is that it doesn't even come close to the stupidity in this very thread.

You mean, like arguing about cost and value, on a board dominated by Western Civilization where hamburgers routinely cost 2-3 dollars and a cup of coffee can easily exceed 2 dollars and they place a tip jar in front of you...as if to say, 'You still are a cheap ass, pay up!' kinda of stupid or just typical GAF stupid? Or both?

Or, I'll just say this, people in the US routinely buy bottled water, that is often times no better than what comes out of their tap, for a few bucks a pop. But, it's okay, Wii for $500 is much worse. That's a one time deal for a christmas present.

 

[CTLance]

"I don't really know what a Wii is, beyond its generic description. I just know that my wife wants my son to have one, and that by getting one, I avert grave, holiday disappointment, and even danger."

:lol :lol :lol