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[Dragon]

how is the controller overpriced? 40 bucks for a controller with more features than the 360/Ps3 controllers? Thats overpriced? The goddamn thing makes sound, stores memory, and has an Ir and bluetooth in it, not to mention the motion sensing and peripheral attach point. Its a bargain for the tech you get in that little bastard.

Isn't it 60 with the numchuck?

 

[jman2050]

This barely deserves an acknowledgement.

About as much as your statement, correct.

 

[Phife Dawg]

Some people were name dropping various smaller countries earlier, pondering console performance therein. So if people bring them up again, that's fair enough. Europe is afterall, a collection of mostly smaller countries that all add up.

Germany 80m
France 65m
UK 60m
Italy 60m
Spain 45m

USA 300m

The big countries make up more than half of EUs population for instance. Sure you have countries like Denmark (5m) but they don't account for much.

I think it means nothing. It is just a way to confuse you.

There are 39,999,999 proud Spaniards living in country 4 times smaller than the state of Texas.

My city has a density of about 6000/square km

But that's on a small island. Overall population density in Spain is far less than in Germany for instance.

 

[Dragon]

Well lets just throw out Ps3 sales in general because, hey, some people probably bought it as a BR player. what the fuck kind of argument is that?

But then what would you guys make fun of?

 

[Innotech]

Isn't it 60 with the numchuck?

theyre sold as separate parts.
40 for wiimote, 20 for nunchuk.
Considering the nunchuk also has motion sensing in it, together its a pretty good price. Its like $50 for a barebones Ps3/xbox360 controller and the wiimote does alot more than those two.

 

[Innotech]

But then what would you guys make fun of?

PSP? oh wait...

 

[Phife Dawg]

They don't have a game out that is an incredible bargain with a controller that normally is outrageously overpriced.

$60 for Wiimote+Nunchuck is outrageously overpriced? Sixaxis is $50 and doesn't even have rumble, let alone a camera. 360 controller is $50 as well, though that one has rumble.

Compared to the competition it's reasonably priced although we can all agree that first party controllers are too expensive for all the consoles.

 

[Innotech]

$60 for Wiimote+Nunchuck is outrageously overpriced? Sixaxis is $50 and doesn't even have rumble, let alone a camera. 360 controller is $50 as well, though that one has rumble.

Compared to the competition it's reasonably priced although we can all agree that first party controllers are too expensive for all the consoles.

Actually, yes I agree. However this was relative to the competition.
All three are highway robbery.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Wow.

Ima quarantine this entire area and bomb it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

[Pureauthor]

Wow.

Ima quarantine this entire area and bomb it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Segata? Where the heck were you in our hour of need?!

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Segata? Where the heck were you in our hour of need?!

After taking a reaming from the Xbox guys in the last PR thread, I'm sitting these out for a while. If ignorance is what people want, let them eat cake.

 

[Pureauthor]

Even if it's a lie?

 

[Innotech]

After taking a reaming from the Xbox guys in the last PR thread, I'm sitting these out for a while. If ignorance is what people want, let them eat cake.

nothing worth getting reamed about. 360 did not sell 17 m units. Not to customers. To retailers yes I think they may have stuffed those channels good. But thats still 17 m units MS made, shipped, and retailers had in inventory. where they go from there is up to retailers but its money in MS hands now.

 

[Beer Monkey]

nothing worth getting reamed about. 360 did not sell 17 m units. Not to customers. To retailers yes I think they may have stuffed those channels good. But thats still 17 m units MS made, shipped, and retailers had in inventory. where they go from there is up to retailers but its money in MS hands now.

They didn't stuff the channels anything like last year. At this time 12 months ago there were pyramids of Premium systems in stores. Right now stores are sold out of Premium and Elite systems most of the time. We're already seeing the post-holiday SKUs show up (no free Forza 2 and Marvel Ultimate) when there are actual systems on shelves.

 

[GhaleonEB]

They didn't stuff the channels anything like last year. At this time 12 months ago there were pyramids of Premium systems in stores. Right now stores are sold out of Premium and Elite systems most of the time. We're already seeing the post-holiday SKUs show up (no free Forza 2 and Marvel Ultimate) when there are actual systems on shelves.

This.

Also, other indications of channel stuffing were out there. When MS released their earnings, Bach commented that there was "a fair amount of inventory in the channel" - not a good sign. We saw the impact on Q1 and Q2 shipments.

It will take until we see the Q1 shipment numbers to really see what the global situation is after the holidays, but it sure looks different than last year.

 

[Innotech]

They didn't stuff the channels anything like last year. At this time 12 months ago there were pyramids of Premium systems in stores. Right now stores are sold out of Premium and Elite systems most of the time. We're already seeing the post-holiday SKUs show up (no free Forza 2 and Marvel Ultimate) when there are actual systems on shelves.

All I know is, I still see all SKus around here and the market isnt THAT small (~400k people)
Im sure its selling very well but the shipped number still doesnt add up. But it was Christmas holiday and successful consoles sell like crazy. Hell the Ps3 even sold a few more units than normal. It odesnt really matter though because the consoles shipped out will be sold in time.

 

[Dragon]

nothing worth getting reamed about. 360 did not sell 17 m units. Not to customers. To retailers yes I think they may have stuffed those channels good. But thats still 17 m units MS made, shipped, and retailers had in inventory. where they go from there is up to retailers but its money in MS hands now.

Bach confirmed this during the Microsoft CES conference yesterday.

 

[GhaleonEB]

All I know is, I still see all SKus around here and the market isnt THAT small (~400k people)
Im sure its selling very well but the shipped number still doesnt add up. But it was Christmas holiday and successful consoles sell like crazy. Hell the Ps3 even sold a few more units than normal. It odesnt really matter though because the consoles shipped out will be sold in time.

We don't have December NPD yet.

As for availability, all we have to go on is anecdotal evidence. Lots of folks are reporting sell outs of the main 360 SKUs in the sales-age threads.

nothing worth getting reamed about. 360 did not sell 17 m units. Not to customers. To retailers yes I think they may have stuffed those channels good. But thats still 17 m units MS made, shipped, and retailers had in inventory. where they go from there is up to retailers but its money in MS hands now.

Also, this isn't a grand discovery. MS has defined their "sold" number as sold to retail since they launched the Xbox.

 

[Innotech]

We don't have December NPD yet.

How much was xbox360 at start of December? Last I had heard it was at 15 million or so and then added 700k after november. So it sold at least 1.3 million in Decmber? I suppose thats manageable since it sold 1.1 m in December last year. thats if it was indeed at 15m in november. If it was then it makes sense. Then that also means the wii could be around 17.5-18m sold by now. Which would be fucking crazy.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

oops.

 

[polyh3dron]

Maybe i read that wrong, but dont those numbers account for PS3, PS2, and PSP?

*reads again*

no i read it wrong. Ok go on.

Nope, this isn't an SDF article :lol

 

[GhaleonEB]

How much was xbox360 at start of December? Last I had heard it was at 15 million or so and then added 700k after november. So it sold at least 1.3 million in Decmber? I suppose thats manageable since it sold 1.1 m in December last year. thats if it was indeed at 15m in november. If it was then it makes sense. Then that also means the wii could be around 17.5-18m sold by now. Which would be fucking crazy.

Yeah, we really need December NPD to complete the picture. Microsoft had shipped 13.4m units as of the end of September, so they shipped an additional 4.3m in Q4.

US NPD was 1.1m in October + November. December is anyone's guess, but it did 1.1m last year. So just over half of that shipped was sold in the US, which seems to consistant with how the 360 has historically done.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I hate to bring this up, but was it mentioned that these are sold to retail numbers, right?

 

[donny2112]

I hate to bring this up, but was it mentioned that these are sold to retail numbers, right?

Where do you get that from in the press release? The general consensus is that these are sold-through numbers from Nov. 23-Dec. 31 for North America.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Where do you get that from in the press release? The general consensus is that these are sold-through numbers from Nov. 23-Dec. 31 for North America.

And I think the source of that concensus is the first sentence of the OP:

Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) today announced PlayStation(R) hardware retail sales reached more than 3.9 million units in North America during the critical holiday sales window (Friday, November 23, 2007 to December 31, 2007). This accounts for SCEA's three systems currently in the market PLAYSTATION(R)3 (PS3(TM)), PSP(R) (PlayStation(R)Portable) and PlayStation(R)2 (PS2). PS3 retail sales reached 1.2 million hardware units during this holiday timeframe.

If Sony had not specified I'd be inclined to say shipped, but that's pretty specific.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Where do you get that from in the press release? The general consensus is that these are sold-through numbers from Nov. 23-Dec. 31 for North America.

Well, I hate to cite Vee-Gee-Chartz, but I found the story on N4G. They contacted Sony to find out and the response was:

(To Sony)

“I'm responsible for chasing down contacts for ******** to seek clarification on many PR issues. A contact of mine gave me your email. Recently, Sony released a statement saying that the PS3 sold 1.2 million units from Black Friday until the end of 2007. Our position is that Sony is reporting PS3s sold to retail, which counts as sales in terms of revenue. We would simply like to clarify and confirm that Sony (like Microsoft and Nintendo ) only track sales to retail, rather than the number of PS3s that end up in homes. As a number sold to retail, the PS3, PS2, and PSP figures agree well with our sell through data. Thanks for you time.”

In response, Sony wrote:

“Hi (JMazel),

Yes, we are reporting sell through data (sales to retail). If you have more
questions on specific data I can put you in touch with {our} Analyst Relations Manager.

Please let me know if you need anything else.

Thanks, (Sony)”

 

[Odysseus]

Where do you get that from in the press release? The general consensus is that these are sold-through numbers from Nov. 23-Dec. 31 for North America.

north america?

..back to op...

son of a gun. that will teach me to skim the op. now i have to go and change my npd predictions back to what they were. i might even have to take psp down a notch. :/

 

[Flakster99]

Well, I hate to cite Vee-Gee-Chartz, but I found the story on N4G. They contacted Sony to find out and the response was:

Ohhh. And the plot thickens.

 

[donny2112]

Yes, we are reporting sell through data (sales to retail).

Oy, vey. We consider "sell through" the NPD-type numbers, and "sales to retail" as shipments. We know that Sony has the ability to track 1st party software and hardware directly without NPD, just like Microsoft and Nintendo, so they certainly can give us actual sell-through data without an NPD report. Also, the article looks to be talking about actual sales to consumers, so maybe the person responding wasn't as precise in their response as we would have liked?

Oh, well. Shipping 1.2 million PS3s during those weeks when they won't be on store shelves until a couple of weeks after the ship date doesn't make any sense to put out a press release for. I'm leaning toward the person responding doesn't realize how precise we need the language to be and mixed terms. That's just me, though.

 

[JCBossman]

north america?

..back to op...

son of a gun. that will teach me to skim the op. now i have to go and change my npd predictions back to what they were. i might even have to take psp down a notch. :/

Yep, i am doing that too, I am going to take 100k off for this.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Oy, vey. We consider "sell through" the NPD-type numbers, and "sales to retail" as shipments. We know that Sony has the ability to track 1st party software and hardware directly without NPD, just like Microsoft and Nintendo, so they certainly can give us actual sell-through data without an NPD report. Also, the article looks to be talking about actual sales to consumers, so maybe the person responding wasn't as precise in their response as we would have liked?

Oh, well. Shipping 1.2 million PS3s during those weeks when they won't be on store shelves until a couple of weeks after the ship date doesn't make any sense to put out a press release for. I'm leaning toward the person responding doesn't realize how precise we need the language to be and mixed terms. That's just me, though.

Blu-Ray people gave these numbers, maybe they will lead to some insight on what Sony did for Christmas.

http://techdigest.tv/2008/01/ces_2008_bluray.html

Now Danny Kaye is up, he's executive vice president of research and technology at Twentieth Century Fox. He's going to take us through some more numbers. There's now about half a million Blu-ray players, and roughly three million PS3s in the market. So that's about 3.5 million Blu-ray players by the end of 2007.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Blu-Ray people gave these numbers, maybe they will lead to some insight on what Sony did for Christmas.

http://techdigest.tv/2008/01/ces_2008_bluray.html

PS3 was at 2.44m units as of November NPD. I sure hope he's rounding down a ways.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

PS3 was at 2.44m units as of November NPD. I sure hope he's rounding down a ways.

That is a lot of rounding down dude.

 

[Lightning]

I don't know how keen I am with this idea of Sony's.

Basically this fucking Bluray is going to kill PS3 gaming, not fucking help. When you get FOX quoting PS3's as Bluray players for their stupid movies to sell on... that pisses me off. I don't think those buying a lot of BR movies are buying any games....

 

[kaching]

Stringer can't even get Playstation numbers right but, yeah, go ahead and quote a Fox exec.

 

[donny2112]

PS3 was at 2.44m units as of November NPD. I sure hope he's rounding down a ways.

That would be < 600K for PS3 in December, which is much more in-line with how GameCube performed in its second December (in the face of a two-game bundle from the Xbox, no less :lol ) than the 850-950K, we've been expecting.

Edit:
I'm not saying that I think < 600K is the better prediction for PS3, but rather pointing out how ironic it would be for the GameCube sales comparisons.

 

[Brakara]

Well, I hate to cite Vee-Gee-Chartz, but I found the story on N4G. They contacted Sony to find out and the response was:

Oh shit, that just can't be right. Though, if true, it does give some cred to that Fox exec.