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Scorcese says Marvel films are essentially 'theme parks', 'not cinema'

sol_bad

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He's defending his employer, if I got paid millions to put on an eye patch and play myself in every movie, I'd say the same.

Anyway, I still don't know why you are so triggered when people tell the truth about the MCU movies. It's weird, they make a lot of money, they will continue to make them in the endless factory line, you'll get to fanboy out over the latest guy/girl in a suit making quips in stories with very little consequences and zero artistic merit.

Why are you so annoyed when people tell the truth about the product that they are?
I'm not triggered.
But why do you feel the need to talk down on people who like these films? Like you hold yourself above them? It's pretty gross.
 
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jufonuk

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He is not wrong in one way They are popcorn/theme park cinema. They are fucking awesome. But neither should they be dismissed. Not every movie has to be a high brow cerebral film. The if aim of a film is to entertain us and to make us feel then the MCU does that in abundance
 

brap

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I'm not triggered.
But why do you feel the need to talk down on people who like these films? Like you hold yourself above them? It's pretty gross.
You seem pretty triggered. Why else do you constantly have to post here? Quit being so insecure of what you like ffs.
 
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Teletraan1

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The weird thing for me is when Sony/Fox/Universal were all making their separate Marvel films, people weren't hollering how trash they were. And they really were trash. Films like Ghostrider, Daredevil, Elektra, Chris Evan's Fantastic Four and Punisher.

Their quality level is so bad compared to the MCU films. But nowadays people want to jump on the Disney/MCU hate bandwagon.

So weird.
People weren't putting those older movies on a pedestal like they do with the current MCU. If those older movies were hailed by critics as something they are not I am sure more people would speak up. His intention here is not to just bag on bad movies but to simply point out that the MCU isn't cinema in the same way McDonald's isn't fine dining. You don't have to point out that McDonald's isn't fine dining because food critics aren't as brazen/retarded/bought as film critics in this regard. I like the MCU on the same level as McDonald's but I would much rather have a Beef Wellington.
 
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Lanrutcon

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I don't think he's wrong, but at the same time: I like theme parks. So what if I go see the Avengers for a cheap thrill. I know what I signed up for.
 

Nymphae

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I don't think he's wrong, but at the same time: I like theme parks.
I don't think his point can be taken to mean that Theme Park rides are unlikeable or provide no entertainment. They are built for a reason, their very design and nature is all about cheap thrills. He's just saying he prefers harder earned emotions and feelings. Those usually are more fulfilling examples of cinema.
 
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He's defending his employer, if I got paid millions to put on an eye patch and play myself in every movie, I'd say the same.

Anyway, I still don't know why you are so triggered when people tell the truth about the MCU movies. It's weird, they make a lot of money, they will continue to make them in the endless factory line, you'll get to fanboy out over the latest guy/girl in a suit making quips in stories with very little consequences and zero artistic merit.

Why are you so annoyed when people tell the truth about the product that they are?
Not an MCU fan as a whole, neither a fanboy of something, but is just annoying to read someone talk other things like he's the best in making something, and all the other things are shit
There are softer ways to say you don't like something
 
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Saruhashi

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I think it's kind of funny how this echoes the "are video games art" conversation that seems to go on endlessly.

Marvel movies are definitely fun and approachable and watchable.
If you were going to the cinema for something "serious" then maybe they are not the best movies to pick.

I think the "theme park" comparison is a good one though as I would say the Marvel films are more like that kind of experience.

It doesn't mean they are bad but in terms of "art" or "cinema" I think people would, at the very least, have to accept that they are rather shallow.
 

Greedings

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People weren't putting those older movies on a pedestal like they do with the current MCU. If those older movies were hailed by critics as something they are not I am sure more people would speak up. His intention here is not to just bag on bad movies but to simply point out that the MCU isn't cinema in the same way McDonald's isn't fine dining. You don't have to point out that McDonald's isn't fine dining because food critics aren't as brazen/retarded/bought as film critics in this regard. I like the MCU on the same level as McDonald's but I would much rather have a Beef Wellington.
I love that a Beef Wellington is what you consider fine dining. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

Teletraan1

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I love that a Beef Wellington is what you consider fine dining. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
It can absolutely be fine dining. I don't know what you are on about. It isn't pretentious dabs of puree with a small amount of a protein that passes as fine dining now that appeals to the Instagram losers. In fact in this argument I would say a Wellington is a good parallel to Scorsese as his movies are classic stories elevated and a bitch to make and aren't flashy soulless globs of pretension.
 

Greedings

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It can absolutely be fine dining. I don't know what you are on about. It isn't pretentious dabs of puree with a small amount of a protein that passes as fine dining now that appeals to the Instagram losers. In fact in this argument I would say a Wellington is a good parallel to Scorsese as his movies are classic stories elevated and a bitch to make and aren't flashy soulless globs of pretension.
If my mum makes it on a Sunday evening. It’s not fine dining.
 

sol_bad

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People weren't putting those older movies on a pedestal like they do with the current MCU. If those older movies were hailed by critics as something they are not I am sure more people would speak up. His intention here is not to just bag on bad movies but to simply point out that the MCU isn't cinema in the same way McDonald's isn't fine dining. You don't have to point out that McDonald's isn't fine dining because food critics aren't as brazen/retarded/bought as film critics in this regard. I like the MCU on the same level as McDonald's but I would much rather have a Beef Wellington.
Please stop using the food analogy, it's completely different. You are going to pay much less money at a McDonalds than you would at a fine dinning restaurant. Of course your going to expect better quality food when you pay more money.
I'll say it again, all movies are cinematic art whether it's Scorsese, Spielberg, Hitchcock, Kubrick or it's the MCU, a Troma production, Rambo or even an animated film. That's my opinion, you can't really change my opinion just like you can't change Scorsese's opinion.
 

Azurro

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I'm not triggered.
But why do you feel the need to talk down on people who like these films? Like you hold yourself above them? It's pretty gross.
Yeah, you kind of do, since you always come here to the rescue of the reputation of these movies. I don't hold myself above them, they are what they are, just a well made flashy product for quick consumption that say nothing.

It's like I said, I love the hell out of McDonald's after a night of drinking, but you are the equivalent of a guy sitting next to me while I have my Big Mac telling me how it's a perfectly crafted burger made with the finest ingredients, totally deserving to be in the realm of the finest of steaks.

No man, it's just fast food.

Please stop using the food analogy, it's completely different. You are going to pay much less money at a McDonalds than you would at a fine dinning restaurant. Of course your going to expect better quality food when you pay more money.
I'll say it again, all movies are cinematic art whether it's Scorsese, Spielberg, Hitchcock, Kubrick or it's the MCU, a Troma production, Rambo or even an animated film. That's my opinion, you can't really change my opinion just like you can't change Scorsese's opinion.
Hah. so The Room is cinematic genius? Jurassic Park 3? Troll 2? That's your opinion but it's a bad one, since if all movies are art regardless of their quality and artistic intent, then no movies are art.
 
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sol_bad

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Stop putting words in my mouth, I never said cinematic genius. And yes, The Room and Troll 2 are still art, just not very good qaulity art.
 

Gargus

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He is probably the same kind of douche wipe asshole that won't call a movie a movie. He has to call it a film or cinema.

I love his older movies but fuck him and fuck Spielberg also for saying shit like Netflix is killing movies and that a Netflix movie isn't a real movie and all those other directors who can't accept things that other people enjoy because it isn't what they enjoy.

I mean I hate most popular music that's out today and I think it's shit that isnt music at all. But I also realize that to someone else it's music they love. I won't ever bad mouth something like that simply because I dont like it. That's what makes movies, games, music, books, etc great is there is something for everyone.
 
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They’re cool to watch, I don’t go into a Guardians of the Galaxy movie expecting Schindler’s List or Titanic. It’s super heroes, can’t take it too seriously.
 
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sol_bad

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Wait .... did people watch the video?
He was asked about it, he didn't bring the topic up.
wow
WOW
 

pel1300

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RDJ and SMJ do not give a shit about this. Does anyone honestly believe they are bothered by Scorsese's comments?

I bet their first thought when being asked dumb questions like this is: "Oh crap, how do I frame my answer in a way that doesn't get the twitter mob after me....now I have to please both sides...AGAIN"

Remember how RDJ reacted to James Cameron's comments?

Remember how RDJ convinced Paltrow to sign onto Iron Man 1?

I paraphrase: "Come on, I know this isn't exactly high art cinema, but wouldn't be cool to be in something that makes a lot of money for once?"

The only mcu actor who seems to take them so seriously is Chris Evans.
 

Screamer-RSA

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He is right though. There are cinemas now where your seat shakes when Thanos farts for the "immersive" experience.
 

J3ster

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True and true statement, Marvel’s target audience is kids so checks out.
 

KorbinDallas

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While it may not fit exactly with the no true Scotsman fallacy, there does seem to be some sort of purity test from the director. If one watches the movie Singing in the Rain you get the sense that as sound starts to be introduced in cinema, it will have a diminishing, or pollutant effect on the media. I bet some attitudes at large around that time probably air similar to what Scorcese is saying here.

Someone mentioned though on the front page the MCU might need to be viewed through the lens of Disney. To me, that might be the biggest point to all of this as that firm is a malevolent harbinger. Still though to say they are not cinema is a magnification of a non-problem.
 

#Phonepunk#

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LOL at Samuel Jackson jumping in. dude, you are in Tarantino movies, surely you must be able to see the difference
If one watches the movie Singing in the Rain you get the sense that as sound starts to be introduced in cinema, it will have a diminishing, or pollutant effect on the media. I bet some attitudes at large around that time probably air similar to what Scorcese is saying here
this is an odd take, i've never seen it before. your personal opinion?

the introduction of sound to cinema certainly disrupted the industry, many silent vaudeville based acts were out, people accused sound engineers of ruining their careers, etc. but surely it allowed for greater expression and an extra dimension to the multi-media montage like qualities of the medium.

the introduction of recorded sound mostly had a negative impact on performing musicians. before recorded sound, people played a piano alongside the silent films as the soundtrack. "canned music" (called because wax cylinders came in a literal can) put a lot of hardworking musicians out of business, an early sign of automation wiping out an art form.

in many ways that is IMO what Scorcese etc. are reaction to. film was once an art form, demanding skill across many different disciplines, and used primarily to tell human-based stories. these are not stories about humans, but superhuman Gods, made on an assembly line in order to all work together as a single product line. this is by design, this is kind of irrefutable. it is one of the things most Marvel fans openly celebrate, just how coordinated it all is. this is i think what is meant by "theme park" (ofc the parent company owning the world's most famous theme park may have something to do with that).

additionally there is the fact that Scorcese travels the world saving actual films and discovering/promoting indepedent filmmakers while these companies actively work against that, towards a more monolithic corporate driven film future. already we have seen movie theaters being told they can't show Aliens and other movies, the machine is even destroying itself, this is how all-consuming it is. Scorcese is a preservationist by comparison.
 
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Late to this... but yeah, what's to dispute here? Comic book movies are absolutely just cheap rides, and I've particularly despised the genre since the recent reign of Disney corporatism began, including every damn formulaic Marvel pic we get shoved us on each year.

Personally I'd even go so far as to say that the comic book move boon is a sign of something screwed up with our adult culture. It's fine to enjoy some of these things in moderation, but what was once a set of nerd interests has recently become a whole mainstream identity, so that your average office guy isn't even slightly embarrassed that he spends a ton of money on superhero nonsense. I mean... he probably should be embarrassed.

Anyhow, it's all corporate crap, all the way down. Identifying with it, anticipating the next big trailer, all of it. I can't wait for this fad to pass over, it's been an exhausting decade in pop culture.
 

sol_bad

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Late to this... but yeah, what's to dispute here? Comic book movies are absolutely just cheap rides, and I've particularly despised the genre since the recent reign of Disney corporatism began, including every damn formulaic Marvel pic we get shoved us on each year.

Personally I'd even go so far as to say that the comic book move boon is a sign of something screwed up with our adult culture. It's fine to enjoy some of these things in moderation, but what was once a set of nerd interests has recently become a whole mainstream identity, so that your average office guy isn't even slightly embarrassed that he spends a ton of money on superhero nonsense. I mean... he probably should be embarrassed.

Anyhow, it's all corporate crap, all the way down. Identifying with it, anticipating the next big trailer, all of it. I can't wait for this fad to pass over, it's been an exhausting decade in pop culture.
It's not a fad and it won't pass. People are invested in these characters.

Serious question.
How many movies have you seen at the cinemas this year and what were they, Are you part of the problem? Are you part of the adult culture issue? If you think someone should be embarrassed about liking Marvel, I think that says a lot about yourself. No one should ever be ashamed of what they enjoy and what makes them happy.
Unless it's illegal.

And are you saying you like Ghostrider better than any of the MCU films? Maybe I sound like a broken record with the pre 2008 question but I argue that anyone that likes the Sony/Fox Marvel films (not including Spider-Man) doesn't have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to "cinema".
 

oagboghi2

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It's not a fad and it won't pass. People are invested in these characters.

Serious question.
How many movies have you seen at the cinemas this year and what were they, Are you part of the problem? Are you part of the adult culture issue? If you think someone should be embarrassed about liking Marvel, I think that says a lot about yourself. No one should ever be ashamed of what they enjoy and what makes them happy.
Unless it's illegal.
Yeah, this attitude right here is part of the problem. This is how we get furries and adult men crying over a tweet about bad movies